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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-05-24

---Logopened Tue May 24 00:00:29 2016
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04:37<Wolf01>o/
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05:49<Samu>hey
05:50<@peter1138>Hey! Been trying to meet you, ooh woah woah
05:50<Samu>I'm hosting a server, with a client spectating
05:50<@peter1138>Exciting.
05:51<Samu>it is having difficulty syncing at the end/start of months, why's that
05:51<Samu>the client is in the same network
05:51<Samu>me and me
05:53<Samu>i'm the server and the client at the same time, on the same computer, there should be no reason to have the client lag behind, something's odd happening
05:57<Samu>i'm making a video
05:58<Wolf01>mmmh, I'm not in the mood for hunting a wordpress vulnerability :|
06:06*peter1138 wonders what headphones to get.
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06:12<Samu>video https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!1295&authkey=!AER8n48pIzzMXvk&ithint=file%2cmp4
06:13<Samu>it happens at the 30th Oct transitioning to 1st Nov
06:14<Samu>both server and client stall for a while, but the client stalls longer than the server, it isn't accompanying the server, lags behind for some reason
06:14<@peter1138>So find out what is causing it.
06:14<Samu>how?
06:16<@peter1138>Anything but making a pointless video that is no help to anyone.
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06:17<Samu>i couldn't think of a better way to reproduce it
06:20<Samu>it does this every month transitioning
06:20<Samu>have no idea where to begin
06:20<Samu>both server and client aren't autosaving
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06:34<Samu>something came to mind. maybe the server and clients have to advance both by performing the same long tick step. it's just that the server starts doing it first, stalling client once, then when it gets through, the client begins doing that same long step, stalling twice, then playing catch-up with the server.
06:37<Samu>in essence, there's 3 stalls, right?
06:37<Samu>catch-up is considered a stall
06:44<Samu>that long tick step sometimes last for more than 5 seconds, client is getting a "possible connection lost"
07:04<@peter1138>Well done.
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07:05<@peter1138>So you know now that it'll probably be stalling with just the server running. Probably.
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09:29<supermop>yo
09:41<Flygon>Hey moppy
09:46<supermop>designing this back yard makes me wish i had a roof deck
10:15<monsted>create one :)
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10:21<supermop>landlord doesn't let us up on the roof
10:25<@Alberth>moin
10:30<Xaroth|Work>o/
10:33<FR^2>supermop: so no "casually dropping from the roof" today?
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>use google maps?
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10:59<Samu>i want to do something too complex for me
11:01<Samu>there is a time that 1 slot is dealing with 2 configs
11:02<Samu>want to know how it's possible to grab the config of the current ai instance
11:02<Samu>but the instance is dead
11:05<Samu>GetConfig(slot)->Change((*it).second->GetName(), (*it).second->GetVersion()); in detail: http://i.imgur.com/6axIkac.png
11:05<Samu>in the example, I'm changing WrightAI to CivilAI
11:06<Samu>it gets the WrightAI and then overwrites it with CivilAI stuff in it
11:06<Samu>I want to grab the WrightAI stuff for posterior use, i don't know how to do this
11:19<Samu>hey Wormnest i'm still running the game with 15 wormais
11:20<Samu>it's been 60 years, no crashes so far, only 1 wormai couldn't do anything
11:20<Wormnest>Cool, how are they doing
11:20<Wormnest>Does it say why
11:20<Samu>i set him to do trains only, couldn't start, because of that loan thing
11:20<Samu>not enough money
11:21<Wormnest>Yea that should be fixed in my dev version
11:21<Samu> also have one wormai that was only doing aircraft
11:21<Samu>he did better than all others up to a point
11:22<Samu>suddenly he starts getting rid of airports and aircrafts, his profit starts lowering
11:22<Samu>not in a dangerous way, but it was strange
11:22<Samu>eventually all the other wormAis which are using aircraft+train
11:23<Samu>managed to catch him up in profits
11:23<Wormnest>That´s when an new airport type is introduced
11:23<Wormnest>It starts upgrading all of them without looking if that´s smart
11:23<Samu>the other wormais are probably doing the same, but they have trains to support this i guess
11:23<Wormnest>I have some improvements for that here that I haven´t committed yet
11:24<Wormnest>If air is turned on then yes they all do that
11:25<Samu>in the early years, the best wormai was red, now, after 60 years in-game, he's the 2nd worst
11:26<Samu>let me check parameters
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11:27<Samu>http://imgur.com/Ox2AKg7
11:27<Samu>parameters for red
11:27<Samu>those parameters were working great before the faster planes came out
11:28<Samu>then the aircraft only wormai got ahead of him, while this red wormai was slowing down profits, up to what it stands now, 60 years later
11:29<Samu>also, pink
11:29<Samu>pink and cream
11:29<Samu>were initially the worst ones
11:29<Samu>now they're doing great
11:29<Wormnest>That´s probably because you have red set to short distances which is great for starting with slower planes
11:29<Wormnest>but in the long run with fast planes longer distances will earn a lot more
11:32<Samu>i have a couple of ais parameters set with tighter distances
11:32<Samu>300 to 400
11:32<Samu>350 to 450
11:32<Samu>400 to 500
11:33<Samu>the bad part of this test is that they are also using trains
11:33<Samu>and i can't come to a clear conclusion by looking just at the profit graph
11:33<Samu>i intend to repeat the tests
11:34<Samu>oh ya, i also got a 500 to 600
11:34<Wormnest>I intend to remove the distances settings and try to figure out min/max based on date, plane speed etc
11:35<Samu>i wanted to find out if a too long of a min distance isn't at times a good idea
11:35<Samu>but then as stupid as I am, i also allowed them to make trains :p
11:38<Wormnest>Well you could have turned off trains at a later date too
11:41<Samu>looking at finances for aircraft
11:41<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/eo2HEyu.png
11:42<Samu>from left to right, mix/max distances are 300 to 400, 350 to 450, 400 to 500, 500 to 600
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11:42<Samu>seems that 500 to 600 yields better aircraft income
11:43<@Alberth>currently
11:46<Samu>wormais 12 13 14 and 15 use default values for distance, but different values for min town size
11:47<Wormnest>It depends on more factors and as Alberth said that can change over time
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11:48<Samu>wormai 1 is the default
11:48<Samu>100% default
11:48<Samu>and it's Green in the profit graph
11:48<Samu>it's in 3rd place, if i see it right
11:50<Samu>it trades blow with pale green, let me check
11:50<Samu>ah wormai 14
11:50<Wormnest>It might also have had a little profit of starting first
11:50<Wormnest>Although with such a large map with such high vehicle limits probably doesn matter much
11:50<Samu>wormai 14 has a min town size of 1500, i believe, gonna check
11:51<Samu>yup, 1500
11:51<Samu>map is big, 4kx4k
11:51<Wormnest>Another thing is how do you measure how well they perform
11:52<Wormnest>Operating profit isn´t they only way you can look at it
11:52<Samu>pink and cream had a bad start
11:52<Samu>1500/2000 min town size respectively
11:53<Samu>red had best start, due to short distance and slower planes
11:53<Samu>purple at the start was in the middle of the crowd
11:53<Wormnest>What would be funny to see if you turned on infrastructure costs now lol
11:53<Samu>not the worst, and not the best
11:53<Samu>purple is the one with only aircraft and no trains
11:54<Samu>so, in these last years, I expect pink to come as the winner
11:54<Samu>i will wait till 2050
11:55<Wormnest>Must be terribly slow
11:55<Samu>may take 2 more days, it's horribly slow yes
11:56<Samu>there are ticks taking 5+ seconds to process
11:57<Samu>i don't quite understand how cream is keeping it up
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11:59<Samu>wormai 12, cream, has set a min town size of 100
11:59<Wormnest>There are probably enough larger towns now especially on that size map
12:00<Wormnest>oh ok
12:00<Samu>distances are default
12:00<Samu>150/1500
12:00<Wormnest>but it picks a random town larger than that
12:01<Wormnest>with many towns there´s a good chance the town it picks will be larger
12:02<Samu>min town sizes: wormai 12 = 100, wormai 1 = 500 (default), wormai 13 = 1000, wormai 14 = 1500, wormai 15 = 2000
12:04<Samu>there's white and brown, they have the thinking speed different than all others
12:05<Wormnest>Testing town sizes probably works better if you use a smaller map that way the choice will be more limited
12:05<Wormnest>or a map with less towns
12:05<Samu>white thinking speed = slow, brown = normal
12:06<Samu>i thought of running 8 openttd instances of the same map
12:06<Samu>for the next test
12:06<Samu>only 1 wormai per openttd
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12:08<@Alberth>hola
12:08<Samu>i'd like choice not to be a limiting factor, but maybe you're right
12:09<Samu>with so many towns, the chances of large towns are also higher
12:09<Samu>yeah, maybe i'll make a 512x512 test
12:13<frosch123>moin mammals
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>is that discriminatory to non-mammals?
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12:28<Alkel_U3>lizzard people here?
12:28<frosch123>there are snails and stuff
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>maybe there would be more of them here if the environment wasn't so hostile?
12:31<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: most here are zombies
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12:57<andythenorth>o/
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13:03<supermop>yo
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13:07<supermop>andythenorth: rock or succulent garden can do without much care
13:07<andythenorth>fair point
13:07<andythenorth>I have tub plants on a deck
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13:09<supermop>build a working scale garden monorail
13:09<Samu>andythenorth:
13:10<Samu>did you work on terragenesis?
13:10<andythenorth>ha no
13:10<andythenorth>that is a significant over-estimate of my programming abilities ;)
13:11<Samu>oh :( i forgot who did it
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13:11<Samu>i get several 7>..\src\genworld_gui.cpp(290): warning C4334: '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?)
13:13<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/piugwc0vq - been getting them for a long time
13:14<Samu>a year, maybe more, i remember there was someone working on the terragenesis
13:14<Samu>can't recall for sure :(
13:14<Samu>lines 210 to 214
13:14<Samu>and line 326
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13:18<@Alberth>chillcore perhaps?
13:19<Samu>ah, ya i think so
13:19<supermop>andythenorth: espresso machine and micro-batch roasting is a good way to blow a ton of money on a hobby
13:19<supermop>fiancee wants to open a bar/cafe
13:19<andythenorth>hmm
13:19<andythenorth>I am bored of nespresso pods
13:19<supermop>worthless
13:20<supermop>buy a linea mini
13:20<supermop>mazzer grinder etc etc
13:20<andythenorth>a friend of mine has that I think
13:20<supermop>10 grand gone in the blink of an eye
13:20<supermop>and then you'll be cursed to never enjoy cheap coffee again
13:21<andythenorth>ah, he doesn’t have a linea mini; he has a coffee machine that google images found as related :P
13:21<andythenorth>not $4495
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13:22<supermop>i wanted to ask for a linea mini as a wedding gift, but we have no room in the apartment, and fiancee thought it was a bit much to ask some unlucking soul to buy that
13:22<supermop>so my coffee nerding currently stops at pourover, aero press, and an acaia scale
13:23<andythenorth>maybe I should take up stick whittling
13:23<andythenorth>Wolf01: did you see the air turbine dragster?
13:23<Wolf01>no
13:23<andythenorth>Eurobricks
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13:24<andythenorth>I was convinced it was just for show
13:24<andythenorth>but no, it works, and is really simple
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13:24<Wolf01>ha!
13:25<Wolf01>nice
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>so, i apparently had an internet-outage last night, about 7 hours... the longest ever, as far as i remember
13:52<frosch123>you fell asleep?
13:52<frosch123>most people do that
13:52<frosch123>7.5 hours are average for an adult iirc
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>oh, so THAT's what that is.
13:56<V453000>XD
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14:30<supermop>Eddi never sleeps
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15:00<andythenorth>“7.5 hours” :P
15:01<andythenorth>hmm, actually, no that’s how much I do get these days
15:01*andythenorth gets back in his box
15:03<supermop>sounds like a lot for a parent, andy
15:14<andythenorth>I go to bed early ;)
15:15<supermop>at 20:15?
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15:18<andythenorth>well, maybe not that early
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15:42<Majestic_Trains>hello?
15:42<Majestic_Trains>anyone online?
15:43<Majestic_Trains>il take that as no, bye
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15:45<Samu>:9
15:46<Samu>the biggest capacity aircraft are out
15:46<Samu>Wormnest__:
15:47<Wormnest__>nice
15:47<Samu>have you considered refiting some aircraft to mail?
15:48<Wormnest__>why
15:48<Samu>refit ratio is 100% for default aircraft for some reason
15:49<Samu>and mail is more valuable than passenger
15:49<Samu>but availability perhaps
15:50<Samu>might be the problem
15:50<Samu>there's way more passengers waiting at airports than mail
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15:51<Wormnest__>yea probably more than mail
15:51<Wormnest__>still might be an idea to think about sometime if one of the airports on a route is short on passengers
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19:10<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Wed May 25 00:00:30 2016