| --- | Log | opened Wed May 25 00:00:30 2016 |
| 01:02 | -!- | ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-232-38.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 01:03 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] |
| 01:16 | -!- | sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd |
| 01:24 | -!- | sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] |
| 01:36 | -!- | ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-232-38.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
| 02:05 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 02:05 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] |
| 02:14 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:353c:1029:ec2b:ae6a] has joined #openttd |
| 02:14 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:353c:1029:ec2b:ae6a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 02:19 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:302c:8ea0:9050:b870] has joined #openttd |
| 02:22 | -!- | Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8213a5.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd |
| 02:24 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 02:56 | -!- | Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: bye] |
| 03:28 | -!- | sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 03:44 | -!- | kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK |
| 03:59 | <Alkel_U3> | Happy towel day! |
| 04:06 | -!- | kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ |
| 04:07 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@host4-233-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd |
| 04:08 | <Wolf01> | moin |
| 04:09 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 04:10 | -!- | JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] |
| 04:15 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 04:30 | -!- | zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 04:30 | -!- | zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd |
| 04:39 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 05:03 | <V453000> | http://www.rouming.cz/upload/The_Queen_Is_Savage.jpg XD |
| 05:26 | <Wolf01> | :) |
| 05:30 | <Wolf01> | http://www.londonstereo.com/vr-kit.html a bit pricey for a plastic piece, but heh, it's made by Brian May |
| 05:33 | <V453000> | BUT IT'S VR |
| 05:33 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] |
| 05:34 | <Wolf01> | I think "VR" is a bit too misused |
| 05:34 | <V453000> | VR |
| 05:34 | <Wolf01> | this should be VR too http://coolestbusinesscard.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/hologram_business_card_2.jpg |
| 05:34 | <Wolf01> | this even better http://www.holographic.co.uk/card.gif |
| 05:35 | <Wolf01> | You might be able to see a whole movie one day |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | VR VR VR |
| 05:35 | <Wolf01> | 0.13 |
| 05:36 | <V453000> | HYPE |
| 05:37 | <Wolf01> | the worse part is that mods I use may not work :( |
| 05:37 | <Wolf01> | "new game here I come" |
| 05:38 | <V453000> | achievements don't work with mods anyway |
| 05:38 | <V453000> | so you might just want to make a vanilla game, get achievements, and use mods next time when they update :) |
| 05:38 | <Wolf01> | I'm not interested in achievements |
| 05:38 | <V453000> | yeah meh :P |
| 05:39 | <Wolf01> | look at minecraft, every time I play I must redo all the achievements because they are world based... and I need to make a new world every now and then to test the new features |
| 05:40 | <Wolf01> | so I don't even bother to get the achievements |
| 05:40 | <V453000> | I don't think it is world based in factorio |
| 05:40 | <V453000> | also, fuck minecraft |
| 05:46 | <Wolf01> | http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/arKY1ZX_460sv.mp4 |
| 05:48 | -!- | sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd |
| 05:50 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 06:03 | -!- | sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit [] |
| 06:15 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 06:33 | -!- | Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@25.103.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd |
| 06:38 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 06:49 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 07:15 | -!- | Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@25.103.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 07:36 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] |
| 07:37 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 07:44 | <argoneus> | good moning train friends |
| 07:45 | <V453000> | nep |
| 07:45 | <V453000> | noep |
| 07:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you could just copy over the achievement file? |
| 07:51 | <Wolf01> | maybe, but I don't give a fuck, it's just annoying when the achievement popups |
| 07:52 | <Wolf01> | it ruins the atmosphere, lol |
| 08:00 | -!- | Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd |
| 08:06 | <V453000> | you haven't even seen the epic achievement animation yet :P |
| 08:08 | <@peter1138> | That minecrift teleport thing seems crap. |
| 08:09 | <Wolf01> | you mean the portal? |
| 08:09 | <@peter1138> | i mean teleporting to move about because of motion sickness |
| 08:11 | <Wolf01> | I don't get it |
| 08:15 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
| 08:24 | <@peter1138> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfH0JpehNzQ about 45 seconds in |
| 08:26 | <Wolf01> | wtf is that absurd thing? |
| 08:26 | <Wolf01> | that's crazy |
| 08:27 | <V453000> | that looks considerably retarded |
| 08:28 | <V453000> | I don't really like VR in general but this is totally dumb :D |
| 08:29 | <@peter1138> | It's there because moving with a controllers makes some people sick. |
| 08:29 | -!- | tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 08:29 | <@peter1138> | But it breaks the gameplay massively. |
| 08:29 | <@peter1138> | I want some VR stuff but I'm into simulators where you are just sitting, so motion shouldn't be a problem |
| 08:30 | <V453000> | hehe I see your point |
| 08:30 | -!- | tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 08:30 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ |
| 08:31 | -!- | Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:31 | <Wolf01> | I played MC with the oculus-dk1 and it already was astounding, then the new ones seem to have "fixed" almost all the motion sickness problems (few lag and more fps) |
| 08:31 | -!- | Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-137-142.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
| 08:31 | <@peter1138> | yeah but they switched to these fresnel lenses at the last minute which have artifcats |
| 08:31 | <@peter1138> | and artifacts |
| 08:32 | <Wolf01> | also artifdogs |
| 08:32 | <@peter1138> | waiting for that |
| 08:32 | <Wolf01> | :) |
| 08:33 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:302c:8ea0:9050:b870] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:33 | <V453000> | it's probably good for porn :P |
| 08:36 | <@peter1138> | haha |
| 08:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they promised us VR for like 20 years now, i still don't believe it's actually coming :p |
| 08:46 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:f547:37f9:5657:8e0a] has joined #openttd |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | *** Error in `/usr/bin/perl': free(): invalid pointer: 0x0972126c *** |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | ... |
| 08:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what did you expect? |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | I... |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | Perl not to crash? |
| 08:52 | -!- | Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-241-224-121.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FjWe31S_0g] |
| 08:53 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] |
| 09:01 | -!- | Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-241-224-121.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
| 09:01 | <Samu> | I don't know what to do with my to do list here https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1169202#p1169202 |
| 09:04 | <Samu> | "use the Dice.png" - i don't have the tools |
| 09:04 | <Samu> | i don't really understand either what to do exactly |
| 09:05 | <Samu> | "get rid of unused string" - if I do it, the lang files complain that it's too old |
| 09:08 | <Samu> | "find a way to distinguish old from new parameters" - this is... way too complex from my understanding, it is going to affect savegames too |
| 09:08 | <Samu> | "use random ai" is also related to that |
| 09:09 | <Samu> | so... I'm kinda stuck |
| 09:09 | <Samu> | where do I begin' |
| 09:09 | <Samu> | ? |
| 09:15 | <Samu> | what do you think it's the easiest thing to do? |
| 09:15 | <Samu> | i need help |
| 09:27 | -!- | roidal [~roland@194-152-173-139.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd |
| 09:43 | -!- | Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 09:56 | -!- | Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 10:09 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 10:17 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:24 | -!- | Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] |
| 10:37 | -!- | Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd |
| 10:37 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 10:57 | -!- | sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:58 | -!- | Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 11:16 | <Wormnest> | I think I found an AI savegame bug |
| 11:16 | <Wormnest> | presuming you have both WormAI versions 4 and 5 available open console and startai wormai.4 |
| 11:16 | <Wormnest> | run it for a while then save and reload the savegame |
| 11:17 | <Wormnest> | console shows that savegame has an ai named ´wormai.4´ which is no longer available |
| 11:17 | <@Alberth> | both in a tar file, with identical paths inside the tar? |
| 11:18 | <Wormnest> | Yes |
| 11:18 | <Wormnest> | Well except the version number |
| 11:18 | <@Alberth> | https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6377 |
| 11:19 | <@Alberth> | ie, the path to the tar is not stored, so it cannot differentiate which is which |
| 11:20 | <Wormnest> | Well my tars do have the version number so they do differ |
| 11:20 | <@Alberth> | inside the tar? |
| 11:21 | <Wormnest> | Looking at the message it seems when explicitly loading a specific version of the ai |
| 11:21 | <Wormnest> | it stores the version number as part of the ai name ´wormai.4´ |
| 11:22 | <Wormnest> | Yes folder name inside tar is WormAI-v5, WormAI-v4 etc |
| 11:23 | <@Alberth> | ok, so it's a different bug then |
| 11:23 | <Wormnest> | Shall I report it? |
| 11:28 | <@Alberth> | couldn't hurt, although there might be other known problems with AI version numbering, I don't know |
| 11:33 | <Wormnest> | Ok working on it. I bet it´s not much tested since it´s not that well known. |
| 11:38 | <@Alberth> | there are lots of unknown corners :) |
| 11:39 | <Wormnest> | https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6468 |
| 11:47 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 11:53 | -!- | TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 11:59 | <Samu> | when I was using the altered BusyBee, I extracted the original tar on the same location. It created a folder with the extracted stuff inside it |
| 12:00 | <Samu> | my change was deleting a file required for BusyBee to function properly. I changed it in order to make it crash. |
| 12:00 | <Samu> | extracted tar folder takes precedence |
| 12:00 | <Samu> | both versions were there |
| 12:02 | <Samu> | they had the same version numbering internally |
| 12:02 | -!- | tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 12:02 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ |
| 12:03 | <@Alberth> | game scripts are different from AIs |
| 12:03 | <@Alberth> | although possibly not much wrt versioning |
| 12:03 | <@Alberth> | I do know that BB uses a different versioning system than most other scripts |
| 12:07 | <Samu> | let me check how a script is chosen, i stumbled upon this choice when I was evaluating a way to fix something for my patch |
| 12:09 | -!- | tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 12:19 | <Samu> | /* static */ void AI::Initialize() |
| 12:19 | <Samu> | should be from here on |
| 12:26 | <Samu> | interesting, the problem you're dealing with is quite similar to mine |
| 12:26 | <Samu> | I want to deal with previous configs |
| 12:26 | <Samu> | you want to deal with older versions |
| 12:26 | <Samu> | kind of the same deal |
| 12:27 | <Samu> | seems the way tarscanner works is to use the most up to date version |
| 12:28 | <Samu> | so, maybe not totally related to my issue |
| 12:35 | <@Alberth> | that was expected :) |
| 12:35 | <@Alberth> | even just asking a question differently will give you different answers in return |
| 12:36 | <Samu> | it's confusing after all |
| 12:36 | <Samu> | tarscanner actually scans both wormai 4 and wormai 5 |
| 12:36 | <Samu> | but when initializing the ais |
| 12:37 | <Samu> | maybe the problem is afterwards |
| 12:37 | <Samu> | i'm kinda sleepy yet |
| 12:37 | <@Alberth> | that's ok, scanners scan, they don't decide what to keep, at least that is what I would hope |
| 12:38 | <Samu> | so, tarscanner knows that both exist, probably further down in AI::Initialize() |
| 12:38 | <Samu> | gah, my english today |
| 12:39 | <@Alberth> | talk sleepy english :) |
| 12:43 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:f547:37f9:5657:8e0a] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 12:48 | -!- | glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 12:48 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
| 12:48 | <Samu> | there's info_list and info_single_list |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | info_list includes all versions, info_single_list only includes the most recent version |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | wormai.4 + wormai.5 in info_list |
| 12:49 | <@Alberth> | hmm |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | info_single_list only says wormai, but when i explore inside it, i find that it's version 5 |
| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | Wormnest: is wormai.4 compatible with wormai.5 ? |
| 12:50 | <Samu> | min.compatible version says 1 |
| 12:50 | <Samu> | for both |
| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | that could explain dropping of the .4 |
| 12:50 | <@Alberth> | right, no reason to use wormai.4 then |
| 12:52 | <Samu> | AI::scanner_info |
| 12:55 | <Samu> | i better use your savegame, brb |
| 13:01 | <Samu> | strange, when listing AIs, the last that appears is WmDOT, seems like it's capped |
| 13:02 | <Samu> | WormAI would be listed alphabetically later |
| 13:02 | <Samu> | console bug? |
| 13:02 | <Samu> | is there a cap to how many lines the consoles can display? |
| 13:03 | -!- | Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
| 13:03 | <@Alberth> | wouldn't expect that, tbh |
| 13:03 | * | Quinch looks around |
| 13:03 | <@Alberth> | nobody here :) |
| 13:03 | <Wormnest> | Alberth: Yes they are compatible |
| 13:03 | <FLHerne> | Quinch: Good evening |
| 13:03 | <Quinch> | How goes? |
| 13:03 | <FLHerne> | Rain! |
| 13:03 | <Wormnest> | Did I misinterpret the meaning of min version |
| 13:04 | <Quinch> | Lucky! |
| 13:04 | <Samu> | gonna delete some AIs, brb |
| 13:04 | <@Alberth> | if version 4 can be replaced with version 5, I don't see a reason why that would not happen, tbh |
| 13:05 | <Quinch> | Mind if I ask a few gameplay questions? |
| 13:05 | <@Alberth> | newer versions tend to have fewer bugs :) |
| 13:05 | <@Alberth> | Quinch: nope, just ask |
| 13:05 | <Wormnest> | Well in an ideal world :) |
| 13:05 | <Wormnest> | If you don´t introduce new features |
| 13:05 | <@Alberth> | yeah, let's just say an old version has 1 bug that the new one doesn't have :) |
| 13:06 | <Quinch> | First, are there any ways to modify airport permissions, either by noise or absolute amount-per-town? |
| 13:06 | <@Alberth> | or it has extra game play :p |
| 13:06 | <Quinch> | Also, any ways to tell ahead of time how quickly wagons can fill? |
| 13:07 | <@Alberth> | Quinch: by noise, yes. If airports have 0 noise you can have lots |
| 13:07 | <@Alberth> | iirc opengfx+airports has that??? |
| 13:07 | <@Alberth> | never play with aircraft |
| 13:08 | <Wormnest> | but MinVersionToLoad = 1 doesn´t that mean that I can load any version equal or higher than 1 |
| 13:08 | <Quinch> | Alberth, why not? |
| 13:08 | <@Alberth> | it might be more fun to place airports out of town, and transport passengers |
| 13:09 | <@Alberth> | Quinch: too boring, plop down 2 airports, buy load of aircraft, game done |
| 13:09 | -!- | frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 13:09 | <@Alberth> | hola |
| 13:09 | <FLHerne> | Quinch: Also, they have this frustrating tendency to generate more traffic than you can possibly fulfil, even with a dozen airports at each end |
| 13:09 | <Wormnest> | Well thatś one of the things my ai and a lot of other do too :p |
| 13:09 | <Quinch> | I don't use them for passengers, just secondary cargo for FIRS industries. And the fact that the AIs aren't so constrained makes a nice challenge, I think. |
| 13:10 | <@Alberth> | oh, AIs, never use them either :p |
| 13:10 | <FLHerne> | So you get locked into a loop of "aargh, 3 million pax" -> [build more planes/airports] -> "aargh, 5 million pax" |
| 13:10 | <@Alberth> | :D |
| 13:10 | <Quinch> | Alberth, sometimes they do. ;-} |
| 13:10 | <FLHerne> | Ah, that might work better. Did try helicopters for that, the range was a bit awkward with av8 |
| 13:10 | <@Alberth> | Wormnest: afaik "min version" is the smallest version that the given version can load |
| 13:11 | <@Alberth> | since 1 <= 4, version 5 can load version 4 games |
| 13:11 | <Wormnest> | That´s what I was thinking too |
| 13:11 | <Wormnest> | It´s probably just caused by the first bug |
| 13:12 | <@Alberth> | I am not sure there is a bug at all |
| 13:12 | <@Alberth> | the game can pick version 5, and continue playing |
| 13:12 | <Samu> | /* We want to load the latest version of this AI; so find it */ |
| 13:12 | <Samu> | heh... already see the code doing something ... that shouldn't |
| 13:12 | <@Alberth> | why would it ever load version 4? |
| 13:13 | <Samu> | i dunno, because it was started as v4 |
| 13:13 | <Wormnest> | I read somewhere maybe ai wiki that loading a savegame it first tries to load the version it was saved with |
| 13:13 | <@Alberth> | that defeats the updating mechanism when you fix a bug |
| 13:13 | <Wormnest> | Doesn´t it do that for NewGRF´s too |
| 13:14 | <Samu> | this->info_single_list - it's searching for 'wormai' in this list, which means... there's only v5 in there |
| 13:14 | <Samu> | it's gonna load v5 |
| 13:15 | <Samu> | t.t |
| 13:15 | <@Alberth> | I think so, but min-version compatibility is quite new in newgrfs |
| 13:15 | <Wormnest> | https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Save/Load#Handling_of_save_versions |
| 13:15 | <@Alberth> | ie action 14 added it |
| 13:16 | <frosch123> | moin mammals :) |
| 13:17 | <V453000> | SLUGS ARE PEOPLE TOO |
| 13:17 | <Samu> | /* If we didn't find a match AI, maybe the user included a version */ |
| 13:17 | <Samu> | the user did, but the savegame did not |
| 13:17 | <Wormnest> | The good thing is it gave me a reason to add a function to load whatever it finds on the map :) |
| 13:18 | <@Alberth> | that sounds useful :) |
| 13:18 | <frosch123> | V453000: hi gastropodes :) |
| 13:18 | -!- | aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd |
| 13:18 | <V453000> | hello :) |
| 13:19 | <Samu> | gonna check what the savegame actually saves, brb |
| 13:21 | <Samu> | saves the name, saves the version, saves if it's random, saves parameters and an AI::Save, which is asking the AI to save stuff |
| 13:22 | <Wolf01> | just finished building the new lego maze, it's really cool |
| 13:22 | <Wormnest> | But is there a difference in the name saved by the latest version of ai and an older started with a number |
| 13:23 | <Samu> | problem doesn't appear to be when saving |
| 13:23 | <V453000> | Wolf01: you can make wall mazes in factorio :P |
| 13:23 | <Samu> | but when loading |
| 13:23 | <Samu> | if it's a problem, i don't really think it is, given Alberth explanation |
| 13:23 | <Wolf01> | I do that for biters |
| 13:23 | <V453000> | sure but for players :P |
| 13:24 | <Wolf01> | for players is not so cool, you have bird eye view and the map :P |
| 13:24 | <V453000> | yeah but big maze = not so easy |
| 13:25 | <Wormnest> | Hm should make a test where WormAI 4 is the latest version available and then add v5 |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | it actually loads the version |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | but when initializing the ai, it prefers to load the latest version |
| 13:27 | -!- | kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK |
| 13:27 | <Samu> | i better recheck this loading from the start |
| 13:28 | <Samu> | DEBUG(script, 0, "The savegame has an AI by the name '%s', version %d which is no longer available.", _ai_saveload_name, _ai_saveload_version); |
| 13:30 | -!- | Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 13:30 | <Wormnest> | Well that does indeed also load v5 so it´s at least consistent :) |
| 13:33 | <Wormnest> | Although it doesn´t complain about older version not being available and does load the savegame data |
| 13:36 | <Wormnest> | Note that in the scenario where you use startai wormai.4 it says the name of the ai is ´wormai.4´ not wormai |
| 13:40 | <Samu> | if (StrEmpty(_ai_saveload_name)) { |
| 13:40 | <Samu> | _ai_saveload_name = wormai.4 |
| 13:40 | <supermop> | frosch123: thank you for using correct plural |
| 13:43 | <Wormnest> | but shouldn´t it have been saved as wormai |
| 13:43 | <Wormnest> | because version is already saved separately |
| 13:44 | -!- | Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 13:45 | <Samu> | force exact match, hmm it's trying to load the exact match "wormai.4", from where |
| 13:45 | <Samu> | hmm sec |
| 13:46 | <Samu> | nop |
| 13:46 | <Samu> | if (force_exact_match) { it skipped this step |
| 13:46 | <Samu> | grr |
| 13:46 | <Samu> | had it not skip it, it would do this: /* Try to find a direct 'name.version' match */ |
| 13:46 | <frosch123> | supermop: did you expect "gastropods" or "gastropedes"? |
| 13:46 | <Samu> | and it would be loading v4 |
| 13:47 | -!- | FLHerne_ [~flh@185.69.145.241] has joined #openttd |
| 13:47 | <Samu> | from the info_list, which is there |
| 13:47 | <supermop> | at least it wasn't gastropi like moronic americans would say |
| 13:48 | <Samu> | it skipped that step, now it's doing this /* See if there is a compatible AI which goes by that name, with the highest * version which allows loading the requested version */ |
| 13:48 | <Samu> | it's gonna load v5 t.t |
| 13:49 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 13:50 | <Wormnest> | Which is ok but it´s not loading the savegame data even though it should |
| 13:52 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 13:56 | <Samu> | strange if (strcasecmp(ai_name, i->GetName()) == 0 |
| 13:56 | -!- | kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ |
| 13:56 | <Samu> | it was comparing wormai.4 with WormAI |
| 13:56 | <Samu> | and returned false |
| 13:56 | <Samu> | hmm what am i missing |
| 13:57 | -!- | FLHerne_ [~flh@185.69.145.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 13:59 | -!- | Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 14:03 | <Wormnest_> | My idea is that the ´.4´ part shouldn´t have been saved as part of the name in the savegame |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | it iterated over both versions, but it was comparing as WormAI |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | i see |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | now i wonder if that's what it's supposed to do |
| 14:06 | <Samu> | or if it's indeed a bug |
| 14:06 | -!- | Sirenia [~sirenia@454028b1.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 14:09 | <Samu> | i'm already on that part of the code where it is loading the latest version because it didn't find a matching version |
| 14:10 | -!- | Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd |
| 14:10 | <Samu> | ok gonna repeat this |
| 14:11 | <Wormnest_> | Because the test save where wormai v4 was the latest and started normally doesn´t show the same behavior |
| 14:12 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 14:12 | <Wormnest_> | I added the other savegame to the bug report for comparison |
| 14:15 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A19F8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
| 14:22 | -!- | Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 14:29 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] |
| 14:29 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 14:34 | <Samu> | looks like you're right |
| 14:34 | <Samu> | the 2nd time it is comparing |
| 14:35 | <Samu> | it is comparing as wormai to WormAI |
| 14:35 | <Samu> | it truncated the .4 out of it |
| 14:35 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 14:36 | <Wormnest_> | ugh connection so bad lately |
| 14:36 | <Samu> | let's see what it does now when it finds a match |
| 14:36 | <Samu> | it will iterate over both v4 and v5, but i suspect at this point, he's gonna just use the latest version |
| 14:39 | <Samu> | wormai to WormAI is true! :9 |
| 14:39 | <Samu> | it's now comparing versions |
| 14:39 | <@Alberth> | strCASEcmp :) |
| 14:41 | <Wormnest_> | Using latest version is ok that seems intentional |
| 14:42 | -!- | Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 14:51 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 14:53 | <Samu> | i'm now testing a savegame of my own |
| 14:53 | <Samu> | the name that is loaded is WormAI, not wormai.4 |
| 14:53 | <Samu> | there's some discrepancy |
| 14:54 | <Samu> | and i mean the saved name |
| 14:54 | <Samu> | it saved as WormAI |
| 14:54 | <Samu> | and the save provided by wormnest had it saved as wormai.4 |
| 14:54 | <Samu> | brb, gonna try something else |
| 14:55 | <Wormnest_> | My first savegame yes, the second savegame probably also had wormai |
| 14:57 | <Samu> | ah, now i used the console: startai wormai.4 |
| 14:57 | <Samu> | and it saved with the name 'wormai.4' |
| 14:57 | <Samu> | false alarm, sorry |
| 14:57 | <Samu> | let me check your other save |
| 15:01 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 15:02 | <Samu> | your other same, saved it as 'WormAI' |
| 15:02 | -!- | HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6AA55.versanet.de] has joined #openttd |
| 15:02 | <Samu> | save* |
| 15:03 | <Samu> | version saved is 4 |
| 15:04 | <Samu> | brb, dinner |
| 15:15 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 15:29 | -!- | prick [~oftc-webi@aaea151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd |
| 15:29 | -!- | prick [~oftc-webi@aaea151.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] |
| 15:37 | -!- | Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 15:40 | -!- | Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #openttd |
| 15:44 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 15:47 | -!- | roidal [~roland@194-152-173-139.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] |
| 15:50 | -!- | gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd |
| 15:51 | -!- | Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] |
| 15:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | supermop: i suppose "-pi" is a joke that got out of hand... |
| 15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, are slugs gastropodes? they don't exactly have feet... not even on their mouths... |
| 15:59 | <V453000> | I am fairly sure they are |
| 16:01 | <supermop> | Eddi|zuHause: slug is the essential gastropod |
| 16:03 | <supermop> | also you would be surprised how many americans adamantly believe plural of octopus is octopi and will make a point of correcting anyone who says octopuses (correct english plural) or octopodes (correct greek) |
| 16:05 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 16:11 | -!- | Wormnest__ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 16:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | just tell them "it's not 'millipi' either" |
| 16:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | thankfully, that problem doesn't really exist in german... |
| 16:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if a german makes a plural, he just sticks an -e on it. or maybe if it already has an -e, turns it into an -en, or if it has an -en or -er it stays an -en or -er, or maybe something completely different. totally easy. |
| 16:16 | -!- | Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] |
| 16:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it somehow got more common to slap an s on it (inspired from english) |
| 16:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | especially with foreign words or abbreviations |
| 16:18 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 16:18 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 16:18 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 16:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the last spelling reform added a rule that english-derived words which end in -y turn into -ys instead of -ies |
| 16:19 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 16:21 | <Samu> | back |
| 16:23 | <Samu> | the problem is here: https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/saveload/ai_sl.cpp;h=e8b5339c0df82064d70589e3883bf0f9df1b741c;hb=HEAD#l86 |
| 16:23 | <Samu> | line 86 |
| 16:23 | <Samu> | it does not find any script |
| 16:25 | <Samu> | line 87 - (!config->HasScript()) |
| 16:25 | <Samu> | this is true, and begins the bracket { } which apparently shouldn't |
| 16:26 | <Samu> | problem originated at line 86 |
| 16:26 | <Samu> | hmm |
| 16:27 | -!- | Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 16:28 | <Samu> | at line 90, it cuts the '.4' out of 'wormai.4' |
| 16:28 | <Samu> | and in there it compares wormai with "WormAI" |
| 16:29 | <Samu> | and finds both v4 and v5, and decides to use v5 |
| 16:29 | <Samu> | there is a script now, so the next (!config->HasScript()) and line 91 is false, and jumps to the else part |
| 16:30 | <Samu> | at line 99, it prints the error message |
| 16:30 | <supermop> | yo andythenorth |
| 16:30 | <Wormnest_> | Going for 5 seems intended problem is it doesn´t load the savedata form wormai.4 |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | lo supermop |
| 16:31 | <Samu> | so, problem is line 86 |
| 16:31 | <Samu> | gonna see if i can change the way it compares version |
| 16:31 | <Samu> | erm, compares name, that is |
| 16:32 | <Samu> | does not find any script because it tries to match 'wormai.4' with 'WormAI' - this is the problem |
| 16:32 | <Samu> | and this problem is .. somewhere in another file, let me get the name |
| 16:34 | <Samu> | ai_scanner.cpp |
| 16:34 | <Samu> | line 95 |
| 16:35 | <Samu> | https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/ai/ai_scanner.cpp;h=4eb20714799140272b34741b6121e582d546632e;hb=HEAD#l95 |
| 16:35 | <Samu> | line 107 test is false |
| 16:35 | <Samu> | jumps to 120, also false |
| 16:36 | <Samu> | and the comparison issue is at line 133 |
| 16:36 | <Samu> | it is cycling over all available scripts in the system |
| 16:36 | <Samu> | but compares the name |
| 16:36 | <Samu> | and the name wasn't truncated at this point |
| 16:37 | <Samu> | line 133 is working with the wrong name |
| 16:38 | <Samu> | hmm, what can i do |
| 16:42 | <supermop> | its like 90 here |
| 16:43 | <supermop> | time to play some in a hot country? |
| 16:44 | -!- | Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] |
| 16:48 | <Samu> | better check the saving part of the code again |
| 16:48 | <Samu> | brb |
| 16:50 | -!- | frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] |
| 16:51 | -!- | aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 16:52 | <Samu> | it saves with the name wormai.4, think the problem might be even before doing the save |
| 16:52 | <Samu> | must find the console command 'startai' |
| 16:58 | -!- | Ethereal_Whisper [~Tricia@2600:8800:1287:6300:f547:37f9:5657:8e0a] has joined #openttd |
| 16:58 | -!- | Wormnest_ [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 17:04 | -!- | andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] |
| 17:04 | -!- | Progman [~progman@p57A19F8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 17:10 | <Samu> | the console sets the name of the AI to wormai.4 |
| 17:10 | <Samu> | that is so wrong :( |
| 17:12 | <Samu> | oh, i see why |
| 17:12 | <Samu> | but when it returns with the ai |
| 17:12 | <Samu> | it should fix the name |
| 17:13 | <Samu> | and it doesn't |
| 17:20 | -!- | svip [~svip@static.227.17.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 17:26 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 17:27 | <Samu> | so, it's the console |
| 17:27 | <Samu> | it takes the name of the argument and uses it as the name |
| 17:27 | <Samu> | erm.. |
| 17:29 | <Samu> | 'startai wormai.4' - it needs 'wormai.4' in the argument to find the wormai with version 4 in the system. So far, this is correct |
| 17:29 | <Samu> | what is not correct is that it also sets the name of the AI to 'wormai.4' |
| 17:30 | <Samu> | hmm, it needs to rename 'wormai.4' to whatever name version 4 of wormai actually sets it to |
| 17:30 | <Samu> | and that's WormAI |
| 17:51 | -!- | Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] |
| 18:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 90 what? humidity? |
| 18:04 | <Wolf01> | degrees, angle |
| 18:05 | -!- | Tirili [~Unknown@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-207.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 18:06 | -!- | Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8213a5.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 18:07 | <supermop> | 90 CE |
| 18:22 | -!- | Xal [~xal@S0106f0f2490b0073.vw.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd |
| 18:36 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd |
| 18:37 | <Samu> | who understands pointers? |
| 18:37 | <Samu> | i want to change the name of a string |
| 18:39 | <Samu> | https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=blob;f=src/console_cmds.cpp;h=8d9e04113d3964a34fbceaf559a7d9152f0f3a0a;hb=39d588fa6000f4141cc22fc55bd3d1747ffff92f#l1170 |
| 18:39 | <Samu> | line 1170 picks the name of the AI from argv[1] |
| 18:40 | <Samu> | this name is 'wormai.4' |
| 18:40 | <Samu> | how do i rename it to 'wormai'? |
| 18:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 90 CE is a long time ago :p |
| 18:41 | <Samu> | bah i dunno what to do, seems so simple |
| 18:41 | <Samu> | i just know what needs to be done, but i don't know how to code it |
| 18:44 | <Samu> | before line 1175, and after line 1174 it must rename it to the correct name of the AI |
| 18:46 | <Samu> | line 1174 } else { insert code that renamees 'wormai.4' to 'wormai'; |
| 18:46 | <Samu> | halp? |
| 18:46 | <Samu> | I can't do this alone, t.t, sorry |
| 19:02 | -!- | ToneKnee_ [~quassel@host86-135-237-142.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
| 19:04 | <Wolf01> | wrong approach to problem, when you will have wtfAI123.45b what do you do, a dedicated code for that too? |
| 19:04 | -!- | ToneKnee [~quassel@host86-135-232-38.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 19:08 | -!- | rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 19:11 | <Samu> | https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6468#comment14196 - here's my comment about my findings |
| 19:13 | -!- | JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] |
| 19:15 | <Samu> | i dont know how to code a fix, i just know where the problem originates... t.t |
| 19:21 | -!- | AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.147.164.217] has joined #openttd |
| 19:30 | -!- | AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.147.164.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 19:40 | <supermop_> | Eddi|zuHause: the level of air conditioning technology in my office today seems to be from 90CE |
| 19:43 | -!- | JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd |
| 19:44 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
| 19:44 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] |
| 20:11 | -!- | Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 20:19 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 20:20 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
| 20:21 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 20:21 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA704.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
| 20:22 | -!- | dpk [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] |
| 20:22 | -!- | APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] |
| 20:22 | -!- | dpk [~dpk@xn--ht-1ia18f.nonceword.org] has joined #openttd |
| 20:22 | -!- | Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] |
| 20:23 | -!- | Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd |
| 20:25 | -!- | Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] |
| 20:26 | -!- | APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd |
| 20:27 | -!- | Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has joined #openttd |
| 20:28 | -!- | Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] |
| 20:29 | -!- | Alkel_U3 [~alkel@252.244.forpsi.net] has joined #openttd |
| 20:31 | -!- | APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [] |
| 20:33 | -!- | APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd |
| 20:34 | -!- | Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] |
| 20:34 | -!- | Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 20:37 | -!- | gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] |
| 20:37 | -!- | gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd |
| 20:38 | -!- | gelignite [~gelignite@x4e31939b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] |
| 20:44 | -!- | joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 20:44 | -!- | joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has joined #openttd |
| 20:56 | -!- | FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 20:57 | -!- | Long_yanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has joined #openttd |
| 20:58 | -!- | heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd |
| 21:02 | -!- | Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> kinetic.oftc.net quits: APTX, fonsinchen, rah, _dp_, FR^2, monsted, @DorpsGek, Osai, JezK_, joepie91, (+4 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 21:03 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: APTX |
| 21:05 | -!- | joepie91 [~sven@2001:980:a4ca:1:7a2b:cbff:fee1:2550] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | kais58_ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | monsted [~monsted@rootweiler.dk] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | FR^2 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | Nothing4You [N4Y@nothing4you.w.tf-w.tf] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | rah [rah@verain.settrans.net] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | _dp_ [~dP@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe69:152c] has joined #openttd |
| 21:05 | -!- | ServerMode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by kinetic.oftc.net |
| 21:05 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ |
| 21:13 | -!- | Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 21:16 | -!- | Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd |
| 21:16 | -!- | glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 21:16 | <Samu> | sup |
| 21:17 | <Samu> | forum died for a while |
| 21:17 | -!- | chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-118880.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] |
| 21:45 | <Samu> | cyas goodnight |
| 21:45 | -!- | Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] |
| 21:51 | -!- | HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6AA55.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 21:59 | -!- | Quinch [~oftc-webi@d205-206-102-151.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd |
| 22:00 | * | Quinch pokes head back in |
| 22:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | nobody here. get out again. |
| 22:05 | <ST2> | Quinch poked my marshmallows, which are good to burn and poke him until he gets unconscious :D |
| 22:18 | <Quinch> | You should thank me, marshmallows are in league with the devil. Or Jody Foster. |
| 22:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i've never had marshmallows... |
| 22:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in my country we have Knüppelkuchen |
| 22:25 | -!- | Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-183-194.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:27 | <Quinch> | Anyhoo, I have a question, if anyone feels like answering. |
| 22:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have a metaanswer to your metaquestion. |
| 22:27 | <ST2> | Quinch, check topic: | Don't ask to ask, just ask | |
| 22:28 | <Quinch> | Hehe. |
| 22:28 | <Quinch> | Basically, if I have a vehicle going A-B-A-C, I'll usually end up with cargo being seemingly reserved for one station even while vehicles heading to the other one are waiting for cargo. |
| 22:29 | <Quinch> | How's that work? |
| 22:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | click on the "+" to see where cargo is going |
| 22:29 | <ST2> | Cargodist experts required |
| 22:29 | -!- | Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-183-194.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd |
| 22:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or set cargodist to "manual" to disable the destinations |
| 22:30 | <Quinch> | What is cargo distribution about anyway? |
| 22:30 | <ST2> | imo, Cargodist enabled in MP servers is a dumb thing - because players can't see it when joining servers |
| 22:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | how is that relevant? |
| 22:32 | <ST2> | and new players don't understand it - and the game don't explain it properly (to a new player joining the game) |
| 22:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Quinch: cargodist gives cargo (especially passengers and mail) a mind of its own instead of blindly getting off at the next station |
| 22:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | makes those cargos more challenging to transport |
| 22:33 | <Quinch> | Go onnnnnn....? |
| 22:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | as they travel longer distances |
| 22:34 | <ST2> | note: don't connect stations that accept pax to where you only want to deliver goods (for example) |
| 22:34 | <ST2> | or you'll get pax go there |
| 22:35 | <ST2> | want* |
| 22:36 | <ST2> | I don't know what people play here, but the biggest online communities of OpenTTD have cargodist disabled |
| 22:36 | <ST2> | I guess that says something |
| 22:36 | <Quinch> | Pax? |
| 22:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that says nothing, as "the biggest online communities" are still only a tiny fraction of the whole playerbase |
| 22:37 | <ST2> | openttdcoop handles 0,ish of ttd players |
| 22:38 | <Quinch> | Another question, power or tractive effort - which one makes the biggest difference? |
| 22:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i do see how destinations are not fitting short-lived city-builder type games, and get in the way of coop-style megalomanic micromanagement networks |
| 22:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but it's one of the most requested feature for people trying to build "realistic" networks |
| 22:39 | <ST2> | sorry for "the biggest online communities" making the game popular and growing , gathering new players |
| 22:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ST2: do you have any data to support that statement? |
| 22:39 | <ST2> | yup |
| 22:39 | <ST2> | and you have too |
| 22:40 | <ST2> | the difference is that I check that data, and you don't |
| 22:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why would it be my job to support your random claims? |
| 22:41 | <ST2> | what's my claims? |
| 22:41 | <ST2> | I claimed nothing ^^ |
| 22:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you claimed that "the biggest online communities" are the driving factor of popularity and growth |
| 22:42 | <ST2> | it's a known fact |
| 22:42 | <ST2> | I wasn't claiming |
| 22:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you have no clue how many "known facts" are actually completely false |
| 22:43 | <ST2> | http://www.novapolis.net/graph_community |
| 22:43 | <ST2> | you consider that false? |
| 22:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's a blank page |
| 22:43 | <ST2> | recheck your browser |
| 22:43 | <ST2> | or use a real one |
| 22:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but even if there were a graph to show up, how would that prove anything other than that specific online community growing? and help determining whether the growth of the openttd community as a whole is affected by this one way or another? |
| 22:45 | <ST2> | I'm here not to teach people how to use internet browsers - if you don't see that graph, you dnt use free internet at all |
| 22:46 | <ST2> | and you're not a free mind to interpret what's there |
| 22:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm sorry if i don't let random webpages steal my energy for their bullshitscripts |
| 22:46 | <ST2> | so, I dnt mind |
| 22:47 | <ST2> | well, it's a graph based on collected data here: http://www.openttd.org/en/servers |
| 22:47 | -!- | Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd |
| 22:48 | <ST2> | if not reliable, the source isnt as well |
| 22:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | sure. but again, how does that prove anything except for self-referential "we're growing because we're growing"? |
| 22:49 | <ST2> | do the math |
| 22:49 | <ST2> | ofc, if you can do that |
| 22:49 | <ST2> | (joking ^^) |
| 22:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | since there is no data on offline-players, there's no math to be done |
| 22:50 | <ST2> | data on "offline-players" ? |
| 22:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and if 1% of all offline players ever went to an online server, that's a lot. |
| 22:51 | <ST2> | Eddi|zuHause: that's 90's data |
| 22:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | this is a 90's game. |
| 22:51 | <ST2> | today players try OpenTTD online 1st |
| 22:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, nobody in the 90's had online play. |
| 22:52 | <ST2> | I noticed as a community admin - I talk to real players that install the game for the 1st time |
| 22:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, you're heavily biased towards people that install and then go to online servers. |
| 22:53 | <ST2> | and most of them get OpenTTD because have a MP option |
| 22:53 | <ST2> | ´so, I think you real need to get into the real openttd |
| 22:54 | <ST2> | we have servers with newgrf's and others without them |
| 22:54 | <ST2> | most popular are without... guess why?! |
| 22:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you still don't have data about people who never go online. |
| 22:54 | <ST2> | do you? |
| 22:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, but i did not make unfounded claims |
| 22:55 | <ST2> | because I have more data about the ppl goes online that you |
| 22:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and for the 5th time i tell you that data is BIASED |
| 22:56 | <ST2> | since when BIASED is an OpenTTD thing? |
| 22:57 | <ST2> | unless you caused it... and some communities try to make it better |
| 22:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you're hopeless. goodbye. |
| 22:59 | <ST2> | Thank you :) |
| 22:59 | <ST2> | mind if I quote you? |
| 22:59 | <ST2> | on next events ^^ |
| 23:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes. |
| 23:00 | <ST2> | thx again ^^ |
| 23:00 | <ST2> | and will be on our Factorio event xD |
| 23:01 | <ST2> | a industry with "Eddi|zuHause" quotes scrolling xD |
| 23:01 | <ST2> | thank you :) |
| 23:05 | <ST2> | oh well, put them too on OpenTTD achievements too |
| 23:06 | <ST2> | thx Eddi|zuHause for some ideas ^^ |
| 23:07 | <ST2> | oh wait, Eddi|zuHause: do you play MP games or you stick to your |
| 23:07 | <ST2> | SP game where you can't lose? |
| 23:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what's the point of a game where you can lose? |
| 23:08 | <ST2> | (now I'm pushing, I know ^^) |
| 23:08 | <ST2> | OpenTTD |
| 23:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | games where you can lose were made in the 80s |
| 23:08 | <ST2> | even the vanilla have a winnint stats |
| 23:09 | <ST2> | winning* |
| 23:10 | <ST2> | [04:08:56] <Eddi|zuHause> games where you can lose were made in the 80s <<-- did you stopped there or got that even OpenTTD can have goals now? |
| 23:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | how do "goals" have anything to do with losing? |
| 23:11 | <ST2> | a game is a game |
| 23:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if you enjoy losing, play evil mario or something... |
| 23:12 | <ST2> | if you lose a game but respectfully within server rules, it's a good game |
| 23:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | not for me. |
| 23:12 | <ST2> | that's why we have goals on OpenTTD and even when lost, players say Good Game to the winner |
| 23:13 | <ST2> | I think you need to tune your gameplay better |
| 23:13 | <ST2> | Eddi|zuHause: yes, it's to you |
| 23:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or you need to recognize that players play for vastly different reasons |
| 23:14 | <ST2> | I guess I once invited you to join some of our servers |
| 23:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i guess i never did that. |
| 23:14 | <ST2> | that was your fault |
| 23:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why? there would be nothing enjoyable there for me... |
| 23:16 | <ST2> | because we, one of the infamous ttd communities, try to keep players on OpenTTD |
| 23:16 | <ST2> | and them to enjoy the game |
| 23:16 | <ST2> | ánd by the game I mean the GAME |
| 23:16 | <ST2> | the real game, OpenTTD |
| 23:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | claims such as this truly enrage me. |
| 23:17 | <ST2> | to you.... I dnt know |
| 23:17 | <ST2> | I can't place porn in there |
| 23:17 | <ST2> | sorry |
| 23:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you sound like a politician of an opposite party |
| 23:18 | <ST2> | you sound like a polititian on the "no ideas"side |
| 23:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "only i am the bestestest at polititioning. all the other parties are terrible. you must vote for me or you are an idiot" |
| 23:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have plenty of ideas, but i don't force them down your throat. |
| 23:19 | <ST2> | Eddi|zuHause: I understand that you deal with the "code side": I deal with the players side |
| 23:19 | <ST2> | none is easy |
| 23:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that is both untrue and irrelevant. |
| 23:20 | <ST2> | can you elaburate, please |
| 23:20 | <ST2> | [04:19:49] <Eddi|zuHause> that is both untrue and irrelevant. <<-- and for both |
| 23:20 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i made many thousand forum posts, but maybe changed like 100 lines of code ever in openttd... |
| 23:21 | -!- | Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 23:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so i dealt with many more players than lines of code. |
| 23:21 | <ST2> | ´really? |
| 23:22 | <ST2> | I made couple forum posts, (including making Alberth anglry with me) |
| 23:22 | <ST2> | and changed thousand lines to code |
| 23:23 | <ST2> | but I got the friend's side on players |
| 23:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i totally see how with your style of argument you make people angry. |
| 23:24 | <ST2> | wait, people angry on what side? |
| 23:24 | <ST2> | players or devs? |
| 23:24 | <ST2> | you must see that |
| 23:25 | <ST2> | because without players, devs are useless |
| 23:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | any people... |
| 23:25 | <ST2> | wait, people angry on what side? |
| 23:25 | <ST2> | players or devs? |
| 23:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | all the devs are also players |
| 23:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (well, to a certain degree) |
| 23:26 | <ST2> | I know players opinions... I deal with them everyday |
| 23:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the point is not about players or devs. the point is you have a very narrow opinion, and you project that opinion onto other people |
| 23:27 | <ST2> | and we, the "communities" deal with ~50% of online players |
| 23:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, but your perceived 50% is still just 0.5% |
| 23:28 | <ST2> | unless you have a magic wand to know opinions of offline players |
| 23:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on |
| 23:28 | <ST2> | and that's what I need to know |
| 23:28 | <ST2> | how you get the opinions of offline players |
| 23:28 | <ST2> | is there a secret? |
| 23:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a filter bubble is when you surround yourself with people that share your opinion, and then assume that because everyone in your immediate surrounding has that opinion, the opinion must be universal |
| 23:29 | <ST2> | [04:28:17] <Eddi|zuHause> you have a serious case of "filter bubble" going on |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | I know what's that |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | [04:28:26] <ST2> and that's what I need to know |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | [04:28:41] <ST2> how you get the opinions of offline players |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | [04:28:51] <ST2> is there a secret? |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | that I dnt know |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | can you explain? |
| 23:30 | <ST2> | please |
| 23:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there are loads of people in the forum who play mostly single player... just have to listen to them. |
| 23:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | like, check out the screenshot forum. totally different world to your "online community" |
| 23:31 | <ST2> | I listen to them, I mostly listen to posts that are ignored - and I check them all |
| 23:32 | <ST2> | that's my "filter bibble" |
| 23:32 | <ST2> | bubble* |
| 23:32 | <ST2> | if you see my HTPS access, you can see it |
| 23:35 | <ST2> | in case you dnt have acess to that: I loaded ~1500 times the forum |
| 23:35 | <ST2> | last week |
| 23:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | why would anyone have access to that? |
| 23:36 | <ST2> | so, Eddi|zuHause, you're claiming that people using OpenTTD offline are bigger that online? |
| 23:37 | <ST2> | and where can you check that? |
| 23:37 | <ST2> | by myself, I download 10 times OpenTTD a week |
| 23:37 | <ST2> | an average |
| 23:38 | -!- | Ttech [~ttech@00014919.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Este é o fim.] |
| 23:38 | <ST2> | and on different computers |
| 23:38 | <ST2> | work, home, pub, gf home, etc etc |
| 23:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can't check that, because OpenTTD does not record that data. |
| 23:38 | <ST2> | how you measure? |
| 23:38 | <ST2> | it records |
| 23:39 | <ST2> | that data |
| 23:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can't measure that, because OpenTTD does not record that data. |
| 23:39 | <ST2> | it records |
| 23:39 | <ST2> | that data |
| 23:39 | <ST2> | for knowing... I repeated |
| 23:40 | <ST2> | ofc, I guess you didn't know that |
| 23:40 | <ST2> | or, can't acess it |
| 23:42 | <ST2> | I can have that data, from my side, whenever I acessed a specific "https" or "svn" or whatever |
| 23:42 | <ST2> | if not controlled from server side, bad |
| 23:43 | <ST2> | huge data there, but if not saved :S |
| 23:44 | -!- | rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] |
| 23:46 | -!- | Ttech [~ttech@dragons.have.mostlyincorrect.info] has joined #openttd |
| 23:46 | <ST2> | btw, Comodo CA limited, provides all that info |
| 23:46 | <ST2> | ofc, if you have acess to it |
| 23:47 | <ST2> | I guess Eddi|zuHause never played an online game since 1994 |
| 23:47 | <ST2> | this nis all strange to him ^^ |
| 23:48 | -!- | Dackus [dakkus@taimen.sr2.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 23:50 | <ST2> | and by an online game, I mean not with his "pussy" friends, I mean a REAL online OpenTTD game |
| 23:50 | -!- | Dakkus [dakkus@taimen.sr2.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 23:51 | <ST2> | well, this is how we measure how devs gets envolved with the game itself ^^ |
| 23:52 | * | ST2 me drop mic |
| 23:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | funny how you "drop the mic" 15 minutes after the conversation ended. |
| 23:56 | <ST2> | well, was way better that say that to all! |
| 23:56 | <ST2> | but now you did :S |
| 23:57 | <ST2> | I was waiting a reply |
| 23:57 | <ST2> | none = drop mic, he quited |
| 23:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, i gave up on this conversation like an hour ago, but you can't take hints, obviously |
| 23:59 | <ST2> | I could used it earlier, but simply didn't wanted to ashamed you so soon |
| --- | Log | closed Thu May 26 00:00:31 2016 |
