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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-03

---Logopened Fri Jun 03 00:00:43 2016
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01:56<greeter>hmm, i have an issue installing the latest openttd on ubuntu. when i try installing the .deb file, the package manager says it depends on libicu52, but the only version i can get in the repos is libicu55. should i just try to install libicu52 from somewhere other than the repos?
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02:09<Alkel_U3>I you just want the latest stable you can add the PlayDeb repository, although I didn't test if that works
02:09<greeter>ah, i'll give it a try if this latest attempt of mine fails. i'm trying to compile from source
02:11<Alkel_U3>or you can download the generic binaries if you don't need to install it system-wide. Those should have their dependencies bundled with, if I understand that correctly
02:11<greeter>alright
02:11<greeter>i actually didn't believe the generic binaries would work, so after trying both ubuntu and debian packages, i grabbed the source and decided to try it
02:13<Alkel_U3>well that's pretty straightforward, too
02:13<greeter>probably more straight forward than this rofl
02:15<greeter>hmm, if compilation succeeds, i wonder if i can make a working .deb file for other 64 bit ubuntu 16.04 users
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02:23<greeter>hmm, might be possible, but it sure isn't easy lol, even checkinstall complained, but it installed perfectly anyway :-)
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03:23<greeter>how do i see the coverage area of a station that i want to build?
03:23<greeter>oh never mind, i just found it
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04:30<Wolf01>o/
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05:57<Samu>hi~
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06:14<Samu>Hey, I think the description of this setting "Distribution mode for ARMOURED cargo class" is incorrect
06:14<Samu>subtropical don't have valuables, they have diamonds
06:16<Samu>"bla bla (...) For temperate and subtropical you can also choose symetric as banks will send valuables back to the origin bank of some load of valuables."
06:21<@peter1138>They're still valuable ;p
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07:41<Samu>think i found a code error: when typing in console "setting gui.ai_developer_tools 1", it is invalidating the wrong window, WC_AI_SETTINGS, it should be WC_AI_DEBUG
07:42<Samu>line 627 settings.h
07:43<Samu>line 1109 settings.cpp
07:43<Samu>but WC_AI_DEBUG isn't prepared anyway
07:44<Samu>to handle that request
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09:02<Jaenster>dropsbek
09:02<Jaenster>dropsgek *
09:04<Xaroth|Work>you do know you're talking to a bot, right?
09:13<supermop_>isnt it dorps not drops?
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause>Der Drops is gelutscht!
09:33<Samu>what do u think of infrastructure costs for company-owned land?
09:34<Samu>make it expensive
09:44<Samu>maybe make the cost raise based on duration the land is maintained
09:46-!-roidal [~roland@62-46-143-126.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
09:46<Samu>or nevermind...
09:50<Samu>cargo flow legend button is buggy
09:51<Samu>when a company bankrupts, and that company was not being filtered, the button becomes "pressed-down-yet-disabled"
09:54<Samu>http://imgur.com/NAJVhzq - look at Cargo Flow Legend window, 3rd company button is pressed down, because it was a company I was watching but bankrupted
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09:55<Samu>is it worth reporting?
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10:10<Samu>Alberth - this window, WC_TEXTFILE, seems to have little flexibility
10:10<Samu>it is the window for readme, licence and changelog
10:11<Samu>imagine that I have a random ai company running and i'm looking at the readme of the chosen random ai, and suddenly an AI, which is not this one, bankrupts.
10:12<Samu>I didn't want to close the window
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10:13<Samu>it's not the readme of this company
10:13<Samu>but if it was, that slot would go back to random, and random doesn't have a readme
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10:13<Samu>so I have to close it anyway
10:13<Samu>else openttd will crash
10:15<Samu>i can't seem to link a company to the WC_TEXTFILE window so that I only close it when really necessary
10:15<Samu>is there a way?
10:18<@Alberth>so display the readme of an ai rather than of a company?
10:21<@Alberth>ie I can display the readme of an ai before it's started (at least I hope you can)
10:21<@Alberth>at that moment, there is no company for this ai, yet I can read the readme
10:22<Samu>there is no readme for random ai. before it starts it's just without readme. after it starts, it may have a readme
10:22<Samu>at that point i can open the readme
10:23<Samu>at that point as well, the company may bankrupt
10:23<@Alberth>the readme still exists after bankrupt
10:23<Samu>i have code that changes its name, and associated readme back to random, so the window has to close
10:23<@Alberth>the readme window should not use company to find readmes
10:24<@Alberth>it should use the ai identification
10:24<Samu>ah, i see
10:24<@Alberth>a company has no readme
10:25<@Alberth>maybe the ai that runs the company has one
10:25<@Alberth>and that will still exist no matter what happens to the company
10:26<Samu>I see, so i got to make it open the textfile in some other way
10:26<@Alberth>think so indeed
10:27<@Alberth>it's fine to find the ai through the company when you open the window imho
10:28<@Alberth>but you should not use that link all the time until the window closes
10:28-!-Guest2839 is now known as FR^2
10:28<Samu>openttd crashes when it tries to draw the readme for random ai
10:28<@Alberth>that sounds likely :)
10:28<@Alberth>button is not disabled?
10:28<@Alberth>woow :p
10:29<Samu>button is disabled
10:29<Samu>slightly complicated to explain
10:30<Samu>readme button = disabled when slot is configured with random ai
10:30<@Alberth>ok
10:30<Samu>readme button = enabled when random ai starts
10:30<Samu>readme button = disabled when random ai dies
10:30<Samu>problem is when i open it when it starts and leave it open and company dies
10:30<@Alberth>so button works as you'd think it should be
10:31<Samu>it's not a problem with buttons, but with the opened window when the random ai died
10:31<@Alberth>but the window doesn't :p
10:31<Samu>i think i know what I got to do
10:32<Samu>problem is how it opens
10:32<@Alberth>great
10:32<Samu>the textfile
10:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
10:32<@Alberth>yo andy
10:33<andythenorth>lo
10:39<andythenorth>is cat?
10:43<@Alberth>cat is, afaik
10:45<Samu>assert(c != NULL);
10:46*andythenorth wonders how a new transport type would be added to the game
10:46<andythenorth>presumably the map is full?
10:46<Samu>how do i disassociate it from the config slot
10:46<Samu>:8
10:46<@Alberth>you can make new tile types :p
10:46<@Alberth>although we currently have 16, so 4 bits exactly
10:46<andythenorth>does that not eat all the memory or something? :P
10:47<@Alberth>no, you need a new bit for 16 new tile types
10:47<Samu>c is not null.... 3435973836 unsigned int
10:47<@Alberth>each tile type is independent from all other tile types, so they have all bits free except those 5 for the tile type
10:48<Samu> * @param c Buffer to place decoded character.
10:48<@Alberth>Samu: that looks like a pointer
10:48<@Alberth>ie a memory address
10:49<Samu>the assert didn't trigger the crash
10:49<Samu>it escaped the assert
10:49<Samu>but crashed right in the next line
10:49<@Alberth>of course, 3435973836 is very much not NULL :)
10:49<Samu>if (!HasBit(s[0], 7)) {
10:49<Samu>* @param s Character stream to retrieve character from.
10:49<Samu>S is NULL
10:50<Samu>s
10:50<Samu>shouldn't the assert be for s?
10:50<@Alberth>apparently not, but it doesn't matter, it crashes either way :)
10:51<Samu>> openttd.exe!Utf8Decode(unsigned int * c, const char * s) Line 441 C++
10:51<Samu>line 441, string.cpp
10:53<Samu>0x000000c3fe3add80 "AI licence of ÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌÌ...
10:53<Samu>that's random ai
10:53<Samu>lol
10:53<Samu>it must de-link from the slot
10:54<Samu>don't know the right word for it
10:56<Samu>i want it to "show and forget where it came from"
10:57<Samu>instead of "show the readme of this slot and always keep track of it"
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11:02*andythenorth ponders OpenTTD 2
11:05<@Alberth>but we already decided what's going to be in it :p
11:05<Wolf01>also I won't like a pay2win game :P
11:08<andythenorth>Alberth: what’s in it? :D
11:10<@Alberth>everything you ever wanted but were afraid to ask
11:17<andythenorth>:P
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11:20<Anolitt>Hi folks! I was just trying to generate an arctic climate map, but I keep getting the error message saying that no forest industry could be generated, and that I should try to change the map parameters and try again. But no matter what I do, I can't get forest to spawn. Anyone know if that's a bug or anything else?
11:21<NoShlomo>Hello, are city builder scripts usually buggy/unstable? Keeping in mind I'm playing with a patched ottd client, I've tried both Aphid's citybuilder and simple city builder and they both crash
11:24<@Alberth>arctic forests must be above the snowline https://wiki.openttd.org/Forest
11:24<@Alberth>so make high mountains and have a low snowline
11:26<@Alberth>it might be best if you use the original max height setting of 16
11:26<@Alberth>loading a good heightmap will work too
11:28<Samu>i don't know how to fix this
11:29<Samu>it's 15, not 16
11:30<Samu>it's the video thread dude that sets openttd to crash
11:31<Samu>i dont know how to handle this
11:31<Samu>i have the idea what needs to be done, but i don't know how to code it
11:32<@Alberth>getting the idea is often the biggest hurdle :)
11:36<@Alberth>NoShlomo: did you check the discussion threads for those scripts?
11:36<_dp_>NoShlomo, we run servers with simple cb gs, never saw it crashing
11:37<@Alberth>I don't think you can generalize stability
11:39<Samu>video thread wants to redraw all windowses, all widgets
11:39<Samu>then it crashes on WC_TEXTFILE
11:39<Samu>it's a widget?
11:40<NoShlomo>Alberth _dp_ yeah, I haven't actually looked into fixing the problems I get with the scripts but I was wondering if this is common, my guess is the patched client somehow fucks with the scrips
11:40<@Alberth>WC_TEXTFILE is a window class
11:41<Samu>ah, the window title
11:41<Samu>it crashes on the title
11:41<_dp_>NoShlomo, depends on what kind of patches you use
11:41<Samu>AI licence of .... garbled stuff that makes it crash, this is the widget?
11:42<@Alberth>a widget is any rectangular shaped element in a window
11:42<@Alberth>buttons, list, matrix cells, anything
11:42<Samu>even window titles?
11:43<@Alberth>the rectangle containing the window title is
11:44<@Alberth>that widget draws the text. If the text is garbage, it crashes, just like any code
11:44<@Alberth>ie letters are also drawn pixel by pixel
11:46<Samu>it's not even getting to the point of actually reading a textfile yet
11:46<Samu>:(
11:46<@Alberth>not sure, it may already have done that
11:47<@Alberth>you don't want to read data from disk while drawing
11:47<@Alberth>instead, you read the data, and then say "here, draw this"
11:47<Samu>ah
11:48<@Alberth>although newgrfs are loaded on the fly, I think
11:49<@Alberth>with a lot of pre-processing to minimize the amont of work while drawing
11:49<@Alberth>*amount
11:49<Samu>the garbled stuff is a NULL
11:50<@Alberth>but it's simple to check, put a breakpoint where it reads the text
11:50<@Alberth>if it crashes, it draws first
11:50<Samu>tries to decode NULL as utf-8 thing
11:50<Samu>but can't
11:50<@Alberth>if it hits the breakpoint it reads first
11:52<Samu>i tried following breakpoints, but i get a crash coming from the video thread, and i dont know how to follow this part of the code
11:52<Samu>oops, using breakpoints*
11:55<Samu>the searching of things to redraw finds this window title widget
11:55<Samu>and boom :o
11:55<Samu>sorry, i can't seem to understand this
11:58<Samu>VideoDriver::GetInstance()->MainLoop();
11:58<Samu>this is what it's doing from openttd.cpp
11:59<Samu>splits into 4
11:59<Samu>Dedicated, NULL, SDL, Win32
12:00<Samu>went with win32
12:00<Samu>UpdateWindows();
12:01<Samu>FOR_ALL_WINDOWS_FROM_BACK(w) - this is doing some magic as I don't understand how it gets the windowses
12:01<Samu>but that widget title is found and asked to redraw
12:02<Samu>hmm :(
12:02<Xaroth|Work>look at the definition of it?
12:02<Xaroth|Work>it smells like a macro
12:10<@Alberth>it is, it builds a for loop that walks through all windows from back to front
12:10<Samu> GetString(buffer, strid, lastof(buffer));
12:11<Samu>strid is...
12:11<Samu>let me check
12:11<@Alberth>string id
12:11<@Alberth>it converts the string id to real characters
12:11<@Alberth>ie utf8 encoded string
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12:13<Samu>STR_TEXTFILE_LICENCE_CAPTION :{WHITE}{STRING} licence of {RAW_STRING}
12:13<Samu>AI license of
12:13<Samu>Raw_string makes it crash
12:13<Samu>:/
12:13<@Alberth>a char * parameter
12:13<@Alberth>which presumable should point to the name of the ai
12:14<@Alberth>but apparently doesn't
12:14<Samu>AI license of (random)
12:14<Samu>AI license of Random AI
12:14<Samu>i keep getting that
12:15-!-keoz [~keikoz@pha75-1-81-57-54-15.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
12:15<Samu>the buffer changes
12:16-!-Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
12:17<Samu>i dont even know what's in the buffer anymore? a NULL, it seems
12:18<@Alberth>NULL means "there is no buffer"
12:19<Samu>how do i know what's in {RAW_STRING}
12:19<Samu>can't really get how it changes
12:23<Samu>there is a pointer to {RAW_STRING}
12:24<Samu>but {RAW_STRING} content is NULL?
12:24<Samu>i'm confused
12:25<Samu>time to give up, I'm not going anywhere with this
12:25-!-Quatroking_ [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd
12:26<Samu>** Type for wide characters, i.e. non-UTF8 encoded unicode characters. */ typedef uint32 WChar;
12:26<Samu>const char *s
12:26<Samu>*s is NULL
12:27<Samu>Unhandled exception at 0x00007FF635D18426 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x0000000000000000. If there is a handler for this exception, the program may be safely continued.
12:28<Samu>well, sorry for bothering, but I guess I'm gonna resort to closing the window whenever the company bankrupts
12:28<Samu>from the AI
12:28<Samu>ai_core.cpp
12:30<Samu> /* static */ void AI::Stop(CompanyID company) { bla; bla; if (AIConfig::GetConfig(company, AIConfig::SSS_FORCE_GAME)->IsRandom()) { DeleteWindowById(WC_AI_SETTINGS, company); DeleteWindowByClass(WC_TEXTFILE); }
12:31<Samu>it just closes it regardless for which slot it is
12:31<Samu>but oh well, i don't know better
12:36<supermop_>andythenorth: 08 should be chubby chibi
12:37<andythenorth>Leanden needs someone drawing pixels for it
12:38<supermop_>shouldn't have stuck my head out
12:39<supermop_>i actually find ukrs and br set to have br blue as being too blue
12:39<andythenorth>palette is limited :)
12:39<supermop_>cant do it accurate in tt pallet
12:39<andythenorth>there is a range that is close enough though
12:39<supermop_>but, i like to use the more teal 'light blue' cc
12:40<supermop_>which while a bit too green, is a good 'caricature' of br blue
12:41<supermop_>i managed to convince my brother to powdercoat a touring bike frame he was building up in Rail Blue a few years ago
12:41<supermop_>couldn't get him to bite on warning yellow for wheels and racks though
12:42<andythenorth>:P
12:43<supermop_>he lives in chicago so has room to accrue and build superfluous bikes, that i do not
12:44<supermop_>should have tried to find some other bit of metal to go through the line with it though...
12:45<supermop_>who doesn't want a Large Logo air conditioner
12:45-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:45<supermop_>large logo is a national treasure of British Design
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12:49<supermop_>https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e9/57/f8/e957f87fb1e6c5adf917f4715e61a45b.jpg
13:05<Alkel_U3>nice :D
13:08<supermop_>i'd drive that
13:10<Anolitt>@Alberth ok, thank you!
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13:27<@Alberth>Large lego would be easy to get rid of here :)
13:33*andythenorth has enough :|
13:42<monsted>you can never have enough
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14:14<@Alberth>hola
14:14*andythenorth wonders how long vehicles should be in / \ views
14:14<andythenorth>is it known?
14:14<frosch123>where is catherine?
14:14<andythenorth>I think I’m doing it wrong
14:14<andythenorth>cat is making pixels
14:14<frosch123>hoi :)
14:17<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/MOnSter-6502-Diskret-aufgebauter-6502-dem-man-beim-Rechnen-zusehen-kann-3226757.html <- can you explain the usage of "maker" in the abstrat to me?
14:17<frosch123>*abstract
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>never heard the word used in that way before...
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>a play on "Hacker"?
14:18<frosch123>no, they are partipicants of the "maker fair"
14:19<andythenorth>makers = hackers who make physical stuff
14:20<andythenorth>e.g. mostly 3D printing, laser cutting etc
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i thought
14:20<andythenorth>but also robotics, machines, recycling & reuse
14:20<andythenorth>craft, textiles, etc also
14:20<andythenorth>overlaps with fine art occasionally, but mostly not
14:21<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7826/vehicle_length.png
14:22<Wolf01>* andythenorth wonders how long vehicles should be in / \ views <- ask V, he should really know that now ;)
14:23<@Alberth>he may also have a different opinion than most others :)
14:25<andythenorth>I get 10px (horizontal edge length) from the bounding box tool for 5/8 in \ view
14:26<andythenorth>but the sprites are drawn at 12px for same measurement direction
14:26<Wolf01><andythenorth> but also robotics, machines, recycling & reuse <- looks like fallout
14:27<andythenorth>also Iron Horse uses 10px for that dimension :P
14:27<andythenorth>at some point the trucks have gone off-template :P
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14:29<andythenorth>that will need fixed eh
14:29<andythenorth>:(
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14:31<andythenorth>looks better though
14:32<andythenorth>only 4 angles on 10 trucks to fix :P
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14:41<Wolf01>ok... now it makes sense, I read "angels" for 3 times in a row :|
14:42<Wolf01>"dear satan.. I want a puppy this year..."
14:47<Alkel_U3>http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/when-you-write-a-letter-to-satan-instead-of-santa-asking-for-a-puppy.jpg
14:47<Wolf01>exactly
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14:58<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=191995
14:59<andythenorth>?
14:59<Wolf01>they look cool
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15:08<andythenorth>so OpenTTD 2....
15:09<andythenorth>- NotRoadTypes
15:09<andythenorth>- flat docks
15:09<andythenorth>- 2 tile locks
15:09<andythenorth>- water types (ugh, but currently rivers and canals are daft)
15:09<andythenorth>- deprecate old newgrf stuff :P
15:09<andythenorth>- unitised transport type, with restrictions
15:10<andythenorth>- ‘new improved’ landscape generator for Tropic
15:10<Wolf01>paid dlc
15:11<andythenorth>nah, none of it’s good enough :P
15:11<@Rubidium>isn't p1sim effectively openttd 2?
15:12<andythenorth>only if you’re not using ‘effectively’ in the standard UK English sense :D
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15:14<@peter1138>openttd 2, rewrite from scratch
15:14<andythenorth>always goes well :)
15:15-!-Compu [~Compu@cpe-67-241-224-121.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
15:16<andythenorth>what’s gained? Other than ‘snappier’
15:16<@Rubidium>steam!
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15:27<andythenorth>:P
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15:40<Wolf01>http://eu4.factorio.com/assets//img/blog/fff-141-locomotive-movement.gif omfg it's fantastic O_O, where's V? I want to give him a cookie
15:45<andythenorth>engineering supplies http://shropshirehistory.com/industry/sentinel_files/image119.jpg
15:45<Wolf01>yeah
15:50<frosch123>V453000: is honza the #coop honza?
15:53<frosch123>hmm, maybe i am mixing up names
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16:00<andythenorth>hmm
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16:01<andythenorth>it’s hard to show capacity progression by size of truck sprites
16:01<andythenorth>more capacity = ~same size, at TTD scale
16:05<frosch123>add more wheels
16:05<frosch123>early small trucks only need 3
16:06<frosch123>then 2-2, 2-4, 2-6, 4-6
16:06<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7827/truck-size-capacity.png
16:06<andythenorth>current state
16:06<andythenorth>kind of works, not weird in game, but eh
16:07<andythenorth>IRL legal weight limits simply increased as tyre + brake technology got better
16:08<andythenorth>I could make the body less deep on the lower capacity versions
16:08<frosch123>hmm, i see, the ttd scale weirdness limits the number of tires
16:09<andythenorth>there are only so many grid positions for them
16:09<andythenorth>in \ / angles especially
16:09<andythenorth>also number of axles is completely realisms, for British truck history :P
16:20<andythenorth>is this better? (extra axle on gen 3 truck) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7828/truck-size-capacity-2.png
16:25<frosch123>yeah, more axles in the back than in the front looks better
16:26<andythenorth>maybe gen 4 should be longer http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5500/10643404345_1651900e14.jpg
16:27<andythenorth>gen 2 is fine http://www.britishmodelbuses.com/LargeImages/EFE/34401_AEC%20MkV%204%20Axle%20Flatbed%20and%20Drag_ALAN%20FIRMIN_N_Final_Large.jpg
16:30*andythenorth rejects a longer gen 4 truck, looks blearch
16:30<frosch123>what about height?
16:31<frosch123>or is that more a cargo-specific thing?
16:32<andythenorth>hard to make it work well
16:32<andythenorth>also doesn’t apply to flatbed trucks :)
16:34<andythenorth>I could chibi the gen 1 trucks some more
16:34<frosch123>moddern flat bed trucks are lower
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16:37<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7829/truck-size-capacity-3.png
16:38<andythenorth>shorter early trucks?
16:38<andythenorth>the body is almost invisible in \ / view
16:38<Hiddenfunstuff>your 30 ton truck is strange
16:38<frosch123>andythenorth: engine should be longer than the wagon
16:38<Hiddenfunstuff>why would it have 2nd steering axle infront and the deadly trailer combination
16:39<frosch123>Hiddenfunstuff: brittish trucks...
16:39<frosch123>they are better with ships
16:39<Hiddenfunstuff>Still
16:39<Hiddenfunstuff>even as puny they are.. theres no need for 2nd steering axle
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16:40<andythenorth>[shrug]
16:40<Hiddenfunstuff>logical placement for that spare axle would be at the trailer's rear
16:40<frosch123>Hiddenfunstuff: http://www.britishmodelbuses.com/LargeImages/EFE/34401_AEC%20MkV%204%20Axle%20Flatbed%20and%20Drag_ALAN%20FIRMIN_N_Final_Large.jpg <- andy posted a picture earlier
16:40<andythenorth>why is that logical?
16:40<Hiddenfunstuff>Because you dont need 2nd steering axle with so low weights
16:40<andythenorth>eh?
16:40<andythenorth>how much do you think trucks carry? :P
16:40<Hiddenfunstuff>60 tons?
16:41<Hiddenfunstuff>infact... with new laws.. 76, more upcoming
16:41<andythenorth>you’re in Finland or what?
16:41<Hiddenfunstuff>yes
16:41<andythenorth>ha ha
16:41<andythenorth>76t gross?
16:41<andythenorth>or payload?
16:41<Hiddenfunstuff>total yes
16:42<Hiddenfunstuff>around 50-55 tons of it is free for load
16:42<Hiddenfunstuff>or 40 tons depending what sort of design you have on the truck
16:42<andythenorth>UK payload is about 18t on 4 axles, 2 of which would usually be steered
16:42<Hiddenfunstuff>ridiculous
16:43<andythenorth>bearing in mind also, UK has one of highest payloads in western world :P
16:43<Hiddenfunstuff>Why not single steering axle at front, then triples in the rear.. 1 powered double wheel axle, liftable double wheel and maybe steerable as last or infront of the powered axle
16:43<andythenorth>most of EU and most of US is lower
16:43<Hiddenfunstuff>US is being babies.. EU is a toddler
16:43*andythenorth might do a Finnish roster
16:43<Hiddenfunstuff>both are lagging far behind in the efficiency in terms of transporting stuff in single truck
16:44<andythenorth>to go with the ‘Finland-ish’ eonomy in FIRS
16:44<Hiddenfunstuff>if you do.. you may ask us for details.. considering we are what you call.. a professional
16:45<Hiddenfunstuff>just dont understand the deal with multiple steering axles if you dont even have multiple powered axles
16:46<andythenorth>bridge laws?
16:46<andythenorth>not sure if that’s true
16:46<Hiddenfunstuff>bridge laws do apply at one point
16:46<andythenorth>they’re usually 4x2 (tandem) in the twinsteer configuration,
16:46<Hiddenfunstuff>how can 4x2 twinsteer?
16:47<andythenorth>what is finnish convention for describing configuration? axles or wheels?
16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>total numbers of wheels X powered wheels
16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>thats globally
16:47<Hiddenfunstuff>then manufacturers like to put all sort of dashes and sprinkling stars to mark steering or liftable axles
16:48<andythenorth>eh you’re right, I’m wrong
16:48*andythenorth has been making too many trains
16:49<Hiddenfunstuff>Just pointing out right now before you confuse somebody else
16:49<andythenorth>hmm even trains are same
16:49<andythenorth>brain fart
16:50<andythenorth>anyway, I have stuff like this saved for a scandinavian roster http://www.students.tut.fi/~lainiot/kuvia/raskas/2009_07_31_Volvo_FH12-380_Lappeenranta.jpg
16:51<Hiddenfunstuff>Thats ancient combination for old weights
16:51<Hiddenfunstuff>But still in use
16:52<Hiddenfunstuff>Since not everybody can afford brand new truck and trailer combination for upgrading weights
16:52<andythenorth>got a picture of newer combo?
16:52<andythenorth>I want to do a roster with ridiculous capacity
16:52<andythenorth>not US or Canadian
16:52<Hiddenfunstuff>http://www.koneporssi.com/site/assets/files/21704/img_2736.jpg
16:52<Hiddenfunstuff>Thats one of the more generic
16:53<Hiddenfunstuff>steering - powered - powered - steering is the axle configuration in that
16:53<Hiddenfunstuff>usually 9 axles in total equal in 76 ton possibility
16:54<andythenorth>any bigger special types?
16:54<andythenorth>logging trucks?
16:54<Hiddenfunstuff>http://img.yle.fi/uutiset/rovaniemi/article8362435.ece/ALTERNATES/w960/Puutavarayhdistelm%C3%A4%20104%20tonninen%206%2007102015
16:54<Hiddenfunstuff>104 tons?
16:54<andythenorth>B-train?
16:54<Hiddenfunstuff>more like a semi trailer + full trialer
16:55*andythenorth counting axles
16:55<Hiddenfunstuff>104 ton special permit combination under test scenarios
16:55<Hiddenfunstuff>operates up north in predefined routes
16:55<andythenorth>what HP?
16:55<Hiddenfunstuff>730
16:58<andythenorth>biggest UK equivalent :P https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7079/7062188597_931deb2ee1_b.jpg
16:58<Hiddenfunstuff>Rofl
16:58<andythenorth>44t max gross
16:58<Hiddenfunstuff>meanwhile you can put around same amount of weight on the truck alone here with 5 axles
16:58<Hiddenfunstuff>actually i think even 4 is enough
17:00<andythenorth>did all your bridges get rebuilt?
17:00<Hiddenfunstuff>no
17:00<Hiddenfunstuff>what sort of bridges do you build in the island that cant handle weight?
17:00<andythenorth>old ones :P
17:00<andythenorth>lots of them
17:01<Hiddenfunstuff>obviously the 300 year old bridges are limited to like 3 tons max
17:01<Hiddenfunstuff>as if such exists..
17:01<Hiddenfunstuff>think worst are like 200 years old
17:01<Alkel_U3>why somebody would build an old bridge today is beyond me :P
17:01<andythenorth>it is confusing eh
17:02<Hiddenfunstuff>atleast here the main bridges are built way oversize for its current requirements
17:02<Hiddenfunstuff>and those that cannot handle the higher weight.. are marked so with max vehicle weight
17:02<andythenorth>Canada 150t or so, but strictly off-highway http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119089&d=1400560620
17:02<andythenorth>off-highway is cheating :P
17:02<Hiddenfunstuff>yeah
17:02<Hiddenfunstuff>also the canadian logs are bit larger
17:05<Alkel_U3>Damn. That's one truck I wouldn't want to drive behind.
17:06<Hiddenfunstuff>the canadian one?
17:06<Alkel_U3>yeah
17:06<Hiddenfunstuff>Yup
17:06<Hiddenfunstuff>totally overloaded for its capacity
17:06<+glx>they are crazy in canada, they drive on iced lakes
17:06<frosch123>isn't behind better than in front of?
17:06<Hiddenfunstuff>not only canadians do that
17:06<Alkel_U3>keep distance or... funstuff
17:06<Hiddenfunstuff>Also you know what would be worrying?
17:07<Hiddenfunstuff>that truck do a full stop and those logs slide front crushing the cab
17:07<Hiddenfunstuff>or in case of an collision
17:07<Alkel_U3>frosch123: I've seen some pictures and videos of the logs 'spilling'
17:07<Hiddenfunstuff>Yup
17:08<Hiddenfunstuff>Thats why sophisticated (read: europe) has those thick steel walls behind the cab to hold the logs against it so they cant slide forwards anymore
17:08<andythenorth>the Pacific has a large water tank between the logs and the cab :P
17:08<andythenorth>but still...
17:09<Hiddenfunstuff>absolutely does nothing to stop the logs
17:09<andythenorth>http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?17877-Logging-Accidents-And-They-Walked-Away
17:09<andythenorth>http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?17877-Logging-Accidents-And-They-Walked-Away&p=228023&viewfull=1#post228023
17:10<Hiddenfunstuff>Yuppp
17:11<Hiddenfunstuff>isnt it fun how even a light object turns deadly in collision.. say a subwoofer box in trunk of your car..
17:11<andythenorth>big logs, these are 100t *payloads* in some cases :P
17:11<andythenorth>http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?17877-Logging-Accidents-And-They-Walked-Away&p=232877&viewfull=1#post232877
17:11<Hiddenfunstuff>you come to a sudden stop.. violently.. somehow that box in your trunk makes its way to your back of the head and killing you instantly
17:12<Alkel_U3>reminds me of some other cargo needing proper securing :D https://netherregioniii.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/funny-truck-dirt-load-secure.jpg?w=500&h=666
17:12<Hiddenfunstuff>...
17:13<Hiddenfunstuff>by law.. you should've made sure that none of the content could've find its way to somebody's windshield or fall off
17:13<Hiddenfunstuff>basically cover it tightly with a tarp and then hope wind doesnt get under it
17:13<Alkel_U3>so... why don't we have flatbeds hauling sand and gravel in openttd? :D http://i.imgur.com/rSgI1Qc.jpg
17:14<Hiddenfunstuff>Yes. This is absolutely the best way to deliver loose material
17:14<Alkel_U3>the second one isn't all flat, apparently
17:14<Hiddenfunstuff>No
17:14<Hiddenfunstuff>it has those 30cm tall sides
17:16<Hiddenfunstuff>http://i.imgur.com/POJDCqt.jpg I'd say this is optimal load
17:16<andythenorth>what could go wrong with that?
17:17<andythenorth>Alkel_U3: that’s just to keep the doors strapped on :)
17:17<Hiddenfunstuff>I dont know.. it was packed absolutely to the max like that all the way of the 10m space forwards
17:17<@peter1138>Probably overweight then...
17:17<Hiddenfunstuff>nope
17:17<Hiddenfunstuff>light parcels most of it
17:17<Hiddenfunstuff>and the truck was more than capable of carrying it
17:17<Hiddenfunstuff>Slightly oversize for its purpose
17:18<Alkel_U3>andythenorth: yeah, the rail wagon doesn't look like utter nonsense, unlike the truck
17:21<Hiddenfunstuff>peter1138 the truck was basic 3 axle 26 ton, had a trailer with it that was fortunately just pallet stuff so it was all just matter of playing tetris to fit them all in. and bam done.. had even like 800kg to spare from the 68 ton limit
17:21<andythenorth>‘cubed out’
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17:26<Hiddenfunstuff>now though.. time to go work
17:34<V453000>frosch123: honza is the most common name in czech republic :P
17:34<Samu>virtual void OnInvalidateData(int data = 0, bool gui_scope = true)
17:34<Samu>what is "data = 0" used for?
17:34<V453000>also, just finished 0.13 achievement speedrun :D 7:43 to launch a rocket, with default settings and without peaceful mode
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17:36<frosch123>i watched that speedrun that was linked from one of the fff
17:36<Samu>ah, i think i understand
17:37<frosch123>it's amazing how some things suddently later match up
17:37<frosch123>but it is also worrying that people play the same map over and over again
17:37<Samu>i can call OnInvalidateData and this data could be something I want, like a company slot
17:37<Samu>is it not?
17:39<V453000>it is on one hand absolutely incredibly amazing
17:39<V453000>playing it within 2 hours is pure madness
17:40<V453000>but playing one map, building exactly the same factory, is retardedly mad imo
17:40<V453000>that is why I like the new achievement - it isn't peaceful which alone gives a lot of randomness and fun
17:41<V453000>he basically just generated a great map to work with, thought of an excellent factory design to work with it, and invented execution order. The rest of the runs is just dull work and attempting to make the plan correctly. AI could do that
17:41<V453000>anyway gnight
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18:26<Wolf01><V453000> also, just finished 0.13 achievement speedrun :D 7:43 to launch a rocket, with default settings and without peaceful mode <- peaceful mode is overrated, just put enough turrets all around and go to sleep
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18:40<Alkel_U3>I guess that depends on what that "6-12 legged (or so) surprise they were promissing in one of the previous FFFs is :-)
18:41<Wolf01>that one seem to be moved to 0.14
18:41<Alkel_U3>oh, ok. Too bad
18:43<Alkel_U3>if that's the case, the most badass, dangerous-looking critter will be the new loco
18:43<Wolf01>that's astounding
18:45<Alkel_U3>Now it looks properly factoriish - lots of pipes and junk held loosely together with a cab strapped to it; the separate boggies really add a lot, too
18:47<Wolf01>I hope it will come in more colours :P
18:48<Alkel_U3>so do I
18:49<Alkel_U3>like for example the color of the biter blood, so I don't hace to clean it so often
18:49<Wolf01>ahah :D
19:01<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/apvyD7b_460sv.mp4 nice... who tried to fast forward?
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19:04<Alkel_U3>hm, I wonder if that could be attached to a spectrum analyser. Traffic jam with another meaning
19:05<Samu>how do I add a // todo comment? like a pro, lol
19:05<Samu>must find a todo comment, brb
19:06<Wolf01>// todo: get your stuff done
19:06<Wolf01>?
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19:13<Samu> // todo: this is needed here to avoid openttd crash, until this window can be managed in a different way
19:13<Samu>like that?
19:14<Samu> // or until I get some skills
19:16<Samu>DeleteWindowByClass(WC_TEXTFILE); // TODO: this is needed to avoid openttd crash, unless there's another way to manage WC_TEXTFILE
19:18<Samu>i wanted to post a new revision of my ugly patch, but I guess i'm not ready
19:18<Samu>random ai's are hard to manage... it's possible to have many different ways to crash openttd because of it
19:19<Wolf01>'night
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19:19<Samu>tc
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20:39<Samu>new version posted, took me a while http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1169975#p1169975
20:39<Samu>now cyas goodnight
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20:52<supermop__>every time i play online, it seems like the other companies are all inefficient AIs
21:03<Mazur>Even at the Coop sties?
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 04 00:00:45 2016