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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-06

---Logopened Mon Jun 06 00:00:48 2016
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03:25<Flygon>It's a shame the way the engine is designed as it is doesn't allow for rising sea levels
03:25<Flygon>Global Warming as a feature'd be cool
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03:42<Alkel_U3>Alpha Centauri had such feature, you could actively raise or lower the sea level and flood your oponents' unprepared cities. Fun :-)
03:44<Alkel_U3>I don't see much use for it in TT, though. It making sense to the game would IMO require so many changes, you might as well call it a new game :D
03:53<Flygon>Alkel_U3: SMACX's implementation was very VERY hacky
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04:00<Alkel_U3>perhaps... but the important thing is, now that I'v been reminded I need to play it for nostalgia reasons. As if I had the time for that.
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04:09<Flygon>PLEASE DON'T GO
04:09<Flygon>THEY LOOK UP TO YOU
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05:18<monsted>Flygon: the drones look down on me :(
05:27<Flygon>Try not being Kazon
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08:11<greeter>greetings Samu
08:11<Samu>I'm trying to use 1.6.1-RC1 again on an Athlon XP 2700+, but with different blitter modes
08:12<Samu>there is a major boost in performance going brom 32bpp to 8bpp
08:13<Samu>then there's another major boost in performance turning full animation off
08:13<greeter>well i'm only speaking from my own personal experience, but i haven't seen it
08:14<greeter>i run openttd on an ancient machine, and it runs just as smoothly in 32bpp as it does in 8bpp. but machines vary. only real way to see is to try it yourself
08:15<Samu>there is a dwm.exe taxing about 32% CPU, then 68% for openttd when in 32bpp
08:15<Samu>it's really sluggish
08:16<Samu>turning off full animation drops dwm.exe usage to almost 0%
08:17<jonty-comp>dwm is the windows aero manager
08:18<Samu>in 8bpp mode, dwm is about 32-35% use with full animation, but openttd becomes lighter and has yet room to breathe
08:19<Samu>about 50%
08:19<Samu>still, the sum of both is taxing about 80-90% cpu
08:19<Samu>definitely 8bpp helps
08:20<Samu>then full animation turned off help much more, it goes down to about 3-10% cpu usage
08:21<Samu>system uses windows 7
08:21<Samu>32 bit
08:21<Samu>2 GB ram
08:22<Samu>ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512 MB VRAM
08:22<Samu>Athlon XP 2700+ as I said
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08:38<Flygon>Oh man
08:38<Flygon>I was gonna ask how you have enough RAM to run OpenTTD
08:38<Flygon>Then I realized not everyone uses 4096*4096 maps
08:39<greeter>well i find 1024 x 1024 the most fun
08:39<greeter>say, this reminds me, i'm thinking of starting an openttd server. is there somewhere i can go to see the minimum recommended/required system specs for that?
08:45<greeter>actually, i think i got it, and the server meets the minimum requirements. thanks :-D
09:11<jaenster>it also depends what OS you put on your ancient machine
09:13<Alkel_U3>I got it running with ~5 people on a Cubieboard2 - dualcore cortex-a7 (the stable before cargodist, 512^2). I'd say the requirements for a basic server aren't really a concern
09:14<Alkel_U3>other than stable conectivity, ofc
09:21<jaenster>y but server or the game itself is something else
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09:40<Alkel_U3>sure, I was just replying on the topic of the (presumably dedicated) server
09:49<greeter>vps, and yeah, after seeing the system requirements page, it looks like i'm good to go. i just need to tidy up some stuff and get ready to compile the source
09:54<greeter>though i'm starting to wonder how silly my game is going to look using american english and american dollars with metric measurements
09:56<Islacrusez>well the americans aren't completely opposed to the metric system, if the popularity of the 9mm is anything to go by...
09:57<greeter>well i didn't grow up in the united states but i'm very pro american. since i didn't grow up there i'm also pro metric :-P
10:03<greeter>or i guess i can just install a binary :-S lol
10:09<Islacrusez>that coding stuff is beyond me
10:09*Islacrusez says as he learns java
10:10<greeter>rofl, good luck, java was one language i never could wrap my head around
10:10<greeter>course i never fully learned any language. c is probably the one i'm best in, but my skills there are mediocre at best
10:11<Islacrusez>codecademy's intro to java is really good... it's just not nearly long enough for what I'm doing
10:12<Islacrusez>there's a gap between the end of that and the start of the minecraft modding tutorial I'm following
10:12<Islacrusez>I'm really hoping to be able to blag it
10:12<greeter>wow, i'm actually running a dedicated openttd server :-D there's still work to do, but this is really neat
10:12<greeter>ah i see
10:12<greeter>good luck :-)
10:19<greeter>hmm, the client isn't letting me add the server this time for some reason. i click the add button in the dialog and the window just disappears. the server registers a udp request though
10:21-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Taede, Lamp-, +michi_cc, XeryusTC, xQR, Stimrol, Alkel_U3, Antheus, lobster, Yexo, (+1 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
10:22-!-Netsplit over, joins: V453000, +michi_cc, Stimrol, Alkel_U3, lobster, Taede, xQR, XeryusTC, Antheus, Lamp- (+1 more)
10:23-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
10:23-!-mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
10:25<greeter>never mind, i was a moron, found out what i was doing wrong :-)
10:28<greeter>greetings supermop_
10:31<greeter>so one last newbie question. once i fire up the server, will anybody be able to see it in the openttd server list or do i need to do other things to add it?
10:39<greeter>never mind, found that too.... feel free to lecture me about the virtues of patience at this point :-P
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10:47<_johannes>Hey, I just reached 500 trains on a single player map... I know how to increase the max number of trains... do I have to expect lag with a modern CPU with more than 500 trains?
10:48<_johannes>what's the highest number of trains anyone had?
10:49-!-Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
10:49-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
10:49<greeter>greetings Alberth
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11:00<greeter>guess i do have another question. i've seen that most servers have some sort of welcome message for connecting players. where would i go to set one up on my own server?
11:02<Alkel_U3>I'm guessing that's a gamescript's work?
11:03<greeter>ah, could be
11:04<Wolf01> lol
11:05<Alkel_U3>or this could be of relevance
11:05<Sacro>Does nobody use autopilot anymore?
11:05<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
11:05<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 34 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
11:06<greeter>so it's been a while :-S
11:07<Sacro>I can probably name people who have been away longer
11:07<greeter>Alkel_U3: i think this will get me pointed in the right direction :-D thanks
11:07<Sacro>@seen KUDr
11:07<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen KUDr.
11:08<Sacro>@seen DarkVator
11:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen DarkVator.
11:08<Sacro>@seen Dark|SSH
11:08<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Dark|SSH.
11:08<Sacro>I wonder if he forgets people from over 5 years ago
11:08<Alkel_U3>aww, there was a patch for server list filtering brewing. Too bad it didn't make it into the trunk :/
11:09<@peter1138>@seen darkvater
11:09<@DorpsGek>peter1138: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 7 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>the bot was replaced somewhere half way through
11:09<Sacro>well done peter1138
11:09<Sacro>Was he?
11:09<Sacro>I remember SpComb had a logs bot
11:10<Sacro>Or something
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, _42_ [or so] was the bot before DorspGek
11:10<@peter1138>@seen bornacorn
11:10<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen bornacorn.
11:10<@peter1138>@seen born_acorn
11:10<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen born_acorn.
11:10<@peter1138>@seen belugas
11:10<@DorpsGek>peter1138: belugas was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Belugas> I'm fine, thanks! Enjoying what i can, of course. And you?
11:10<Sacro>@seen corn_baron
11:10<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen corn_baron.
11:10<Alkel_U3>I'd really like to hide all of the password protected, version missmatched and language not-compatible-with-me servers
11:11<Sacro>What happened to Belugas? :(
11:11<Alkel_U3>possibly also the ones with goal or citibuilder in the name occasionaly
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>probably snow...
11:15<greeter>hmm took me a while to realize the autopilot comment from earlier is applicable to me lol
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>why would you use autopilot if we have admin port now?
11:16<greeter>admin port?
11:17<greeter>it sounds like there's a lot i'm either not finding in the wiki or hasn't been added to it yet. maybe that should be my next project :-)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>autopilot was a tool to interact with a server through the command line
11:17<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: I miss old school openttd
11:17<Sacro>Like, 0.3.5
11:17<Sacro>0.3.6 even
11:17<Sacro>I remember the 0.4.0 release
11:18<greeter>never played old school openttd to be honest, never played ttd either
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>admin port is a proper server interaction protocol, designed to replace all the hacks that autopilot had to do
11:19<@Alberth>Sacro: fear not, it still exists:
11:19<Alkel_U3>I've been playing since 5, roughly when TT came out. That addiction scarred me for life :D
11:19<greeter>can i get an motd with it? that's really the only thing i'm after now :-)
11:19<Sacro>Alberth: somewhere I have a copy of the repo from back then
11:19<greeter>lol Alkel_U3
11:19<Sacro>From pre SVN rev 1
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>you don't need admin port for a MOTD, there are on-join-scripts available
11:20<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: lies
11:20<Sacro>I'm going to play some MiniIN
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>i used to have a bridges-over-everything patch for miniin
11:20<greeter>hmm i saw a thread on that, but the thread indicated that the scripts will show to everybody when a client connects
11:21<Sacro>I need to enable NPF to have PBS
11:21<Alkel_U3>that old PBS implemetation? Didn't that crash trins from time to time?
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: you better keep a separate .cfg file for miniin
11:22<@Alberth>a disaster feature for free!
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>Alkel_U3: yeah. if two trains faced each other, they both just started up
11:22<Alkel_U3>I don't know myself, I only saw a friend playing it. I was still on TTDPatch back then
11:23<Alkel_U3>well, that's inconvenient :-)
11:24<Sacro>Alkel_U3: yes, I was a master at that
11:24<Sacro>there's a forum post somewhere about me
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>so if you had train>signal--track--signal<train they would be stuck, neither getting into the station. and you then forced one through the signal, as soon as you had train>signal<train the other one also started up and crashed into the first one
11:25<Alkel_U3>I think I hopped over to OpenTTD with one of the last ChrisIN packs
11:27<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: I just had a habit of working on live junctions
11:27<Alkel_U3>hm, can't find that post :-)
11:27<greeter>awesome :-D got an motd, thanks for your help everyone
11:28<Alkel_U3>greeter: for the greater good of me, how did you solve it in the end? I'm about to get a server up and running as well, so it'd save me some hassle :-)
11:29<Alkel_U3>that's one of the reasons I got that VPS a few months ago after all
11:29<Alkel_U3>the main one it being absolutely dirt cheap
11:29<greeter>i created a directory in ~/.openttd/scripts (change for other operating systems as needed, this was for linux) and create a file named on_server_connect.scr
11:30<Sacro>Alkel_U3: me neither right now
11:30<Alkel_U3>that, ok, thanks
11:30<Sacro>I recall it being after a run of about 18 hours playing
11:30<greeter>then just add your motd there. i needed to use but it's deadly easy, otherwise i couldn't have done it lol
11:30<Sacro>And then Akalamanaia took my company over in the morning
11:31<greeter>my server is just about ready to go live, so if you need any help, feel free to ask. if i'm around i'll help out if i can
11:31<Sacro>I miss Brianetta's Standard
11:31<Sacro>:( *sad*
11:33<greeter>Brainetta's standard?
11:35<Sacro>Very popular back in the day
11:35<greeter>ah i see
11:37<greeter>i actually haven't played on any servers before, except for one a friend of mine started. i've spectated a few, just skimming for gameplay tips/tricks/tactics
11:38<Alkel_U3>greeter: so, where's the server? Is it live yet? I'm in the mood to build something right now :D
11:38<greeter>not yet, i wanted to write a rules page, but i'll make it live if you want to try it out
11:39<Alkel_U3>well I'm good, I'll wait for the rules :P
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11:40<greeter>alrighty then. i want to write them because i was playing against an ai the other day that cut off the building of one of my train tracks, rather maliciously at that
11:42<Alkel_U3>on my last server I think I restricted max speed of trains on level crossing and specified min. PBS headroom in front of a crossing for different speeds - can't remember how actively that was used
11:43<greeter>ok, firing up the server
11:43<greeter>hmm interesting
11:43<Sacro>Need to try a mod pack again
11:43<greeter>hmm, and it quit i think
11:44<Alkel_U3>JGR's pack is the current top, I'd say
11:45<greeter>hmm, something got borked in my config file
11:45<supermop_>does it have departure boards?
11:45<sim-al2>it does
11:46<Alkel_U3>it even has close-adjacent-crossings patch!
11:47<Alkel_U3>not that I build those often, but with forced speed reduction via timetables they actualy make sense to build sometimes
11:47<greeter>for some reason, the game is trying to resolve the domain name "f" :-S and it isn't starting for that reason
11:47<supermop_>seems like spring 2013 patch patch wshould update it's name
11:48<Sacro>I was looking at the other one,
11:48<Sacro>Might hav e the deceleration patch
11:48<Sacro>And 4 signal system
11:48<supermop_>i drew those sprites!
11:49<Alkel_U3>whoo, looks like I'll be shopping around for another patchpack, then :-)
11:49<supermop_>there are some unexpected, but maybe intentional drawback where you have single branchlines joining
11:49<Sacro>supermop_: grats
11:49<Sacro>can you not use a PBS signal there?
11:50<Sacro>Or does it reserve in front of the mainline?
11:50<Sacro>Maybe you need to use non-PBS
11:50<Sacro>I'll look into it
11:50<supermop_>non pbs helps
11:50<Sacro>I might get back into ttd patching
11:50<supermop_>it will always try to get 3 blocks
11:51<greeter>ok Alkel_U3 i have the server running now. want me to notice the address?
11:51<Sacro>Need PBS pre-signals
11:51<supermop_>so if its a long single line without signals on its length it will reserve onto the mainline as soon as it leaves its terminus
11:51<Sacro>Can you not use a distant/home setup?
11:52<Alkel_U3>greeter: I thought you'd be advertised :-)
11:52<Sacro>Put a signal braking distance before the junction protecting signal?
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11:52<greeter>i am, but it's a big list and i don't know how well that works and what not
11:52<Sacro>So it reserves upon passing it?
11:52<supermop_>its not that advanced, but i got around it by placing 3 signals leading up to junction
11:52<Sacro>*nod* that's what I meant
11:52<Sacro>Are you forced into 4 aspect signalling?
11:52<supermop_>to 'soak up' the 3 blocks worth or reservation
11:53<Sacro>Darn, does the 'implicit' station signal not count as 1?
11:53<Sacro>If not then it should
11:53<supermop_>it just replaces 2 aspect pbs with 4 aspect
11:53<Alkel_U3>greeter: well, since I don't see anything that would hint your server, yes, please
11:53<Sacro>Be nice to have 2/3/4 selectable
11:53<Sacro>Or even go for the full on 5 aspect!
11:53<supermop_>including anywhere train tries to make reservations, like termini and depots
11:54<supermop_>no pallet animation for blinking green
11:54<supermop_>also no room on semaphore sprite for both arms to be vertical without signal getting insanely tall
11:55<Sacro>I'm hoping has the patch
11:55<Sacro>Semaphores are insanely tall!
11:55<supermop_>i never tried that guys 'evil' braking mode to go with it
11:56<Sacro>That's what I want :D
11:56<Sacro>I don't want insta'braking
11:56<supermop_>which would defeat my cheat that had 3 signals in a row at the junction by having my trains fly through the 2nd and 3rd because they couldn't brake
11:56<Sacro>Hence my 'distant signal at braking distance'
11:57<supermop_>man been getting a ton of instagram spam followers lately
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11:59<supermop_>sacro, you also had issues where long runs from a signal to a stopping point, such as branching onto a branch line, would be run at the 'caution' speed for approaching a red signal
11:59<Sacro>You need to put the caution the right distance away
11:59<supermop_>you can configure that speed to whatever you want, but you will have trains running the whole branch at 40kmh or so
11:59<supermop_>or into a station
12:00<supermop_>i think i set my speeds to 100/80 up from 80/40
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12:00<supermop_>because i mostly wanted the line spacing effects
12:02<supermop_>but yeah, once train leaves mainline to head down a single track, it will drive as if approaching a red even if end of line is 100 tiles away
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12:08<Sacro>That's possibly a pain, possibly not
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13:04<greeter>greetings glx
13:06<supermop_>Sacro: again you can put some signals leading up to EOL but you need to be careful that you do not end up trapping trains at the terminus then
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13:19<supermop_>did you end up picking a patch pack to go with?
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13:42<Quinch>Heyo. More silly questions!
13:44<greeter>ask away Quinch, we may have silly answers :-P
13:44<Quinch>With NewGRFs, is there a way to tell how fast a train will unload for specific carriage?
13:44<supermop_>nly by observation
13:45<V453000>supermop_: some proper sets also mention it in the purchase menu :P
13:45<supermop_>some new grfs will add a helpful description, but not all
13:45<Quinch>Dangit. Okay.
13:46<supermop_>sometimes they will say "fast, slow," etc for loading speed
13:46<V453000>Quinch: which set are you using?
13:46<supermop_>sometimes they will say a number of days for full load/unload
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13:46<Quinch>V, a lot of them.
13:46<supermop_>sometimes they just say "commuter" or "intercity" and you have to guess what that means,
13:47<V453000>ever tried NUTS?
13:47<supermop_>but most of the time the author will provide no information
13:47<Quinch>Probably not, what's it do?
13:48<V453000>add trains in a proper fashion :)
13:48<V453000>if you like to build big networks, it is just for you
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13:50<Quinch>Huh, looks cool. Is it compatible with FIRS2?
13:50<Sacro>supermop_: yeah
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13:51<Islacrusez>does everything need a self-referencing name by law now?
13:51<V453000>NUTS is compatible with everything Quinch
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13:51<V453000>more than that, it is the only train set which actually at least tries to have graphics for all cargoes individually
13:52<Quinch>Hey, cool.
13:52<Islacrusez>V453000, ?
13:53<Islacrusez> tries to have graphics for all cargoes individually ? what's this mean? and as opposed to?
13:53<Quinch>I'm guessing that each cargo type looks different when loaded into the carriage?
13:53<V453000>all other train sets have for example 1 sprite of a wagon with containers, and it uses that sprite for engineering supplies, goods, manufacturing supplies, paper, rubber and fruit, ...
13:54<V453000>NUTS will have unique sprites for each of those cargoes so you can recognize them visuall
13:54<V453000>it is a lot of work but I believe it is important to make a nice set
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13:55<Islacrusez>sounds reasonable
13:56<V453000>nobody does it though
13:57<Quinch>Are there any NUTS-type balance-focused sets for other vehicle types too?
13:57<V453000>roadhog is pretty good, eGRVTS is nice
13:57<Islacrusez>eh, when there's an unspecified number of cargoes out there, it's impossible to catch them all
13:57<V453000>I caught them all Islacrusez
13:57<V453000>with FIRS2 new cargoes this needs updating, but for years that has been the case
13:58<V453000>basically it works until someone makes a new unique cargo
13:58<Islacrusez>so you don't know if you caught them all; you just haven't heard of one you missed
13:58<V453000>considering only industry sets released on bananas, and thus multiplayer viable, I do know
13:59<Islacrusez>so not all of them, just a specific subset :P
13:59<V453000>you would consider non-bananas industries?
14:00<Quinch>I'm guessing you made NUTS?
14:00*Islacrusez doesn't even know what bananas is
14:00<V453000>the content download
14:00<Islacrusez>the what?
14:00<V453000>ever clicked the Check online content button in openttd?
14:01<V453000>bananas is what we call the server where all of the newgrfs and things are
14:01<V453000>have you even played with newgrfs on?
14:01<Islacrusez>I've been using newgrfs since before there was an OTTD
14:02<greeter>as i just found out, they let anybody upload if they agree to the terms and conditions :-D
14:02<V453000>then how don't you know about bananas :d
14:02<V453000>well, rule breaking content is removed greeter
14:04<greeter>makes sense. i only found out because i decided to try uploading a newgrf i made for local use, and it worked
14:04<Islacrusez>because bananas was after my time?
14:05<V453000>ok :)
14:05<V453000>bananas is there for 11 years now, but XD
14:07<Islacrusez>so it predates me by a grand total of a year, but it sure as hell wasn't that well known among TTDP players
14:07<Quinch>At first glance, NUTS seems a bit... confusing.
14:07<Islacrusez>join date: m4rek Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:06 am
14:08<V453000>there is just a lot of engines Quinch, that is why there is the page I sent you with an eventual wiki ... but either of them works, just pick one you like and over time you can focus on using them efficiently
14:11<Quinch>I seem to be having trouble finding one that works with carriages.
14:11<V453000>all of them, you just need correct wagons
14:11<V453000>rail trains use rail wagons
14:11<V453000>monorail trains use monorail wagons
14:11<V453000>but yeah that is one of the bigger reasons why I started designing a new train set
14:12<V453000>when I get some time, I will make them graphics
14:12<V453000>NUTS is fixable but through insane amount of effort
14:19<frosch123>V453000: bananas was added in 2008 or 2009
14:19<V453000>I thought 2005
14:19<V453000>but ok :)
14:20<V453000>still kind of a long time :P
14:20<frosch123>2005 may be the first time there was multiplayer
14:21<Islacrusez>how old is OTTD anyway? don't think us TTDP guys really mingled with you lot too much
14:21<V453000>TTDP community tried to separate itself for some unknown reasons
14:21<V453000>the remaining newgrf authors seem to do that up to this date
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14:48<andythenorth>is cat eh?
14:48<greeter>not sure how that 12 got in there
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14:49<frosch123>maybe you meant h12m
14:49<greeter>maybe :-P
14:51<andythenorth>anyone played megapolis?
14:52<andythenorth>sprites look nice
14:52<andythenorth> :P
14:52<andythenorth>trains and boats and stuff
14:53<andythenorth>pay-to-play probably
14:53<frosch123>watch a movie instead
14:54<Taede>'get 30 megabucks for free' sais it all really
14:54<frosch123>something like a miniing documentation or so
14:57*andythenorth considers industries that can be clicked on for openttd
14:57<andythenorth>and they’d do arbitrary stuff
14:57<Alkel_U3>like... a Cookie Factory?
14:57<Alkel_U3>Cookie Clicker insede OpenTTD! \o/
14:59<frosch123>andythenorth: there was a suggestion that the bubbles from the bubblegenerator should be pop-able
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15:00<andythenorth>I would use this fine new feature for important gameplay benefits
15:00<andythenorth>like sheep that go ‘baa’ when you click them
15:01<frosch123>should we add a "horn" button to the vehicle gui?
15:02<andythenorth>Mario kart 8 has that
15:02<andythenorth>but only for the player with the fancy handset thing
15:03<andythenorth>I think ‘horn’ might be a great v2 feature
15:03<andythenorth>serious innovation
15:04<V453000>frosch123: any chance for vehicle layers? :)
15:05<supermop_>andythenorth: shoot down helicopter by clicking repeatedly with centering tool?
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15:07<frosch123>time will tell :)
15:09<andythenorth>couldn’t we composite them in-game to a single sprite?
15:09<andythenorth>and change them if a cb runs?
15:10<frosch123>the tricky thing is always the spec
15:10<frosch123>who cares about the implementation?
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15:10<frosch123>it can be changed whenever there is a better idea
15:11<andythenorth>or a worse one?
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15:15<supermop_>move fast and break things?
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15:30<andythenorth>shunting, again?
15:31<andythenorth>oh, I was in suggestions forum by mistake
15:31<supermop_>shunt fast and crash trains
15:31<+glx>fatal error andythenorth ;)
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15:40*andythenorth back to trucks
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15:53<greeter>greetings Belugas
15:53*Belugas resets counter of "last seen"
15:53<greeter>nothing wrong with that
15:53*Belugas greets greeter and his greetings!
15:53<greeter>what's up?
15:54<@Belugas>the sun, it is still high in the sky, even behind clouds :S
15:54<@Belugas>other than that... not much ;)
15:54<greeter>hmm it's behind the clouds here too
15:54<@Belugas>and you?
15:54<@Rubidium>bonjour Belugas
15:55<greeter>started my own server for the first time :-D so pretty thrilled about that
15:55<@Belugas>Rubidium! hello you :D
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15:55<greeter>it's a regular party now :-)
15:55<@Belugas>greeter, honest, i've not touched the system for like... a long time
15:56<@Belugas>too much distractions in this world ^^
15:56<greeter>ah, that can be tough to combat for sure
15:57<@Belugas>Remko, i tought about you lately, i was looking over the picts when we roamed a bit Quebecs' roads. was nice..
15:57<greeter>you're in quebec?
15:58<@Rubidium>Belugas: yeah, that was fun
15:59<@Belugas>note that 25k party was noce too! greeter, in Montreal to be precise
16:00<greeter>ah, not too far from here in new brunswick
16:00<@Belugas>relatively speaking, yes :)
16:01<@Belugas>never been there, my foather told me a lot of good thinks of your province :)
16:01<greeter>he and i must have been to different parts of the province :-P
16:01<greeter>never been to montreal myelf, but i've been to quebec once before. spent a week touring the gaspe peninsula
16:01<@Rubidium>interestingly the 25k party was in Brunswick (or rather the German equivalent name of it)
16:02<V453000>I actually had no clue I am going to Brunswick for a good while XD
16:03<andythenorth>hmm trucks
16:03<@Belugas>beer was good in Braunschweig. too bad they don't kow about credit cards lol!
16:04<@Belugas>ho.. no... that was the other country...
16:05<@Rubidium>Belugas: you just need maestro, not that useless visa stuff
16:05<@Belugas>greeter, you know, when you stay for long at the same place, you tend to not see the beauty of it. when you travel, you discover the place with new eyes
16:06<@Belugas>yeah Rubidium :)
16:06<@Belugas>bt my wife and i never had any debit card, just credit. even now.
16:06<greeter>that is true. other places in new brunswick look better to me than places near my home, since i don't leave the forest much. but then people comment out here about natural beauty, especially at night if they can see the stars
16:06<@Belugas>she lokes to play in the invoicing dates, to get more time to pay..
16:07*Belugas shakes up the dirt off keyboard
16:07<@Rubidium>you don't need a creditcard to play with that
16:07*glx prefers immediate debit
16:10*Rubidium prefers debit as well
16:11<@Belugas>yeah well.. she has her habits, i cannot change the way she does things. Me and money, anyway, are not to be mixed
16:11<@Rubidium>no need to account for: how much money do I owe on the credit card, so how much more can I spend. Just happens on one account. Also, since money is "gone" immediately, you are less likely to overspend
16:13<@Rubidium>also, in most cases credit cards are more expensive over here than debit cards
16:14<@Rubidium>I seem to remember having to pay about EUR 2.5 per ATM transaction, whereas that's free for my debit card
16:15*andythenorth just uses the card with the nicest colours
16:15<andythenorth>whatever that happens to be that day
16:16<@Belugas>you need to spend a lot to reach your limit ;) At least for me. Plus, if you pay invoice before deadline, you don't pay a cent
16:17<V453000>my invoice even pays itself for 1 euro per month
16:17<@Belugas>AND i only use CC that do not ask to pay a yearly fee for the "benefits" of that card
16:17*Belugas likes andythenorth's approach ^^
16:18<@Belugas>but hey, i guess all habits are relevant to one's culture and/or experience ;)
16:18<@Belugas>break's over. love you guys. see you in sometimes ^^
16:22<@Rubidium>fees for CC are about 1.5-2% of transaction + 0.15 setup fee, fees for the more-or-less standard Dutch thing to pay over the internet are about EUR 0.15 per transaction, effectively if you pay EUR 100 over the internet, a CC costs about EUR 1.5 and the standard Dutch way EUR 0.15
16:22<@Rubidium>paypal is slightly cheaper than both though, but harder to setup/maintain
16:23<andythenorth>also I use the one I can remember the PIN for :P
16:23<+glx>I have only one so that's easy
16:23<@Rubidium>one PIN, or one card?
16:23<+glx>one card
16:26<Wolf01>I don't have transaction fees for my cc, but if I spend over 2000€ I have to pay a fixed fee of 40€/yr
16:27<andythenorth>Wolf01: Arocs arrived today, £130
16:27<@Rubidium>Wolf01: the transaction fees are for the person selling stuff to you
16:28<@Rubidium>in the Netherlands it's almost normal to ask for a 2% surcharge for paying with credit card over the cheapest option
16:29<Wolf01>not always, you have to pay for a cc here, and different banks have different ways, in my case it's the fee for over 2000€/yr, the previous one was 5€/month, another one I was looking at had something like 0.025€/transaction
16:30<@Rubidium>here you pay for the creditcard *and* the person selling you stuff pays as well
16:31<Wolf01>yes, that is the same here too
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16:32<Wolf01>this one was really good because of that "high" limit... but last year I purchased the trip to Japan :P
16:32<Wolf01>I usually spend 800-1400€/yr on internet
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16:33<Wolf01>andythenorth: discounted or full price?
16:35<Wolf01>I have a fixed 20% discount on all sets except the featured ones
16:35<Wolf01>so last time I purchased another arocs too :P
16:36<andythenorth>discounted, usually £170
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17:53<supermop_>get to ride a new (to me) train line tomorrow
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>riding a line sounds painful. it has too few dimensions to sit on properly
18:18<supermop_>well at least it is infinitely long
18:18<Alkel_U3>well, ever had to use a meeting point?
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 07 00:00:49 2016