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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-11

---Logopened Sat Jun 11 00:00:55 2016
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03:02<@Alberth>o/
03:09<andythenorth>o/
03:23-!-Progman [~progman@p57A18BA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
03:38*andythenorth scratches head
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03:41<andythenorth>I levelled the stats of all the different truck types a while ago
03:41<andythenorth>e.g. open, flat, box, tank, dump, edibles tank, freezer
03:41<@Alberth>ok
03:41<andythenorth>all same speed, capacity, hp for each generation
03:41<andythenorth>seems to make sense in game
03:41<andythenorth>but (1) fights realism (2) Iron Horse does not do that
03:42<@Alberth>truck type is largely decided by cargo type, I assume?
03:42<andythenorth>yup
03:43<andythenorth>open trucks are universal, so there’s always at least two choices (specialist / universal)
03:43<andythenorth>making the specialist trucks ‘better’ just makes the universal truck look stats-crippled
03:43<@Alberth>freezer seems nice with slower decay
03:43<andythenorth>yes, decay and loading speed vary, but player doesn’t see those
03:44<@Alberth>at the cost of some capacity, perhaps
03:44<andythenorth>it’s probably fine, but I noticed Iron Horse has a different approach :)
03:44<@Alberth>how is tank different from edibles tank?
03:44<@Alberth>just type of cargo?
03:45<andythenorth>edibles tank has a decay bonus iirc
03:45<@Alberth>universal type could be autorefit-ish as feature
03:45<andythenorth>tank does not refit food-type cargos
03:45<andythenorth>having put it into words, it *is* fine, I just need to change sprites for some trucks
03:46<@Alberth>more pixels :)
03:46<andythenorth>yup
03:46<andythenorth>I’m getting good at changing truck lengths quickly :P
03:49<@Alberth>I usually pick the specialist wagon, as it gives more diversity in the trains
03:51<andythenorth>yup
03:51*andythenorth bbl
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03:52<Alkel_U3>morning
03:52<Alkel_U3>that's a nice airbus https://video-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t43.1792-2/13419820_147954308951180_646817334_n.mp4?efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9oZCJ9&oh=62c4f00f5cdd4da36c18fd21f2156533&oe=575BE81D
03:53-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
03:53<Wolf01>o/
04:03<@Alberth>moin W, and so early in the afternoon! :)
04:09<Wolf01>"so we just halved the mining time of rails" \o/
04:09<Wolf01>"The inventory space was running out in the later game, so we made the armor give the character an inventory size bonuses (up to 30)" \o/ \o/ \o/
04:10<Alkel_U3>oooh, new 3f
04:11<Wolf01>also what's that crane in the picture? hype crane
04:13<Wolf01>V, new belts graphics?
04:14<Wolf01>also concrete walls connectable to circuit network?
04:14<Alkel_U3>that looks like old belt, just the circuit network box also comes with a frame on top of the belt
04:15<Wolf01>I hope they finally added sidings to the belts, they look like hovering now
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04:56-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
04:56<Samu>hi
05:03<Samu>i wish i could reproduce borkai issue in a timely manner, but having to wait 47 years for it is a big turndown
05:05<Samu>when i load the savegame, his ram usage is back to nothing
05:05<Samu>it must go 47 straight
05:05<Samu>47 years
05:06<Samu>what went wrong with the server when borkai crashed?
05:06<Samu>I wonder what happened exactly then
05:06<Samu>my spectating instance got a network-connection lost
05:06<Samu>right when borkai crashed
05:07<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&p=1170588#p1170588
05:08<Samu>*** Xarick Preto has left the game (leaving)
05:08<Samu>that's definitely not what I did
05:09-!-Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd
05:09<Samu>dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server dbg: [script] The script died unexpectedly. One of the running scripts crashed. Please report this to the script author with a screenshot of the AI/Game Script Debug Window ‎*** Xarick Preto has left the game (leaving) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 10
05:11-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
05:13<Samu>frame 1303406
05:14<@Alberth>if it eats memory very slowly, I can see it would take 47 years
05:14<Samu>(1303406 / 74) / 365 = 48.2
05:15<Samu>okay, so it's 48 years
05:27<Samu>no, this was the frame when i re-joined after it crashed
05:27<Samu>my bad
05:27<Samu>there is no real way to tell exactly when bork crashed
05:27-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
05:28<Samu>erm, no that's someone else joining before me, gah... this is complicated to debug
05:28<Samu>either 47 or 48 years
05:28<Samu>no more, no lesss
05:29<Samu>oh, that's actually my ip address
05:30<Samu>strange, sometimes it connects me via intranet, sometimes via internet
05:33<Wolf01>that's why they invented the hosts file
05:33<Samu>Your IPv4 Address Is: 84.91.250.188
05:33<Samu>dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from 84.91.250.188 on frame 1303406
05:33<Samu>yup, that's me
05:34-!-Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
05:34<Samu>https://www.openttd.org/en/server/101078 - confirmed again, it was me
05:37<Samu>hi Wormnest , maybe u can bring light to this issue
05:37<Samu>do u know what borkai is doing that i hogs ram like nothing?
05:38<Samu>it*
05:38<Wormnest>I haven´t really looked into borkai´s code so I´m afraid not
05:38<Samu>oh:(
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05:40<Samu>what are hosts file?
05:43<Wormnest>hosts contains website name to ip translations/redirects
05:45<Wolf01>also static routes might help
05:46<Wolf01>but if you set up a host or a static route in the same pc you use as server, the advertising to master server won't work
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05:49<Wolf01>you might want to connect via direct ip -> localhost instead of the server list
05:50<Samu>i see, it must have been my error
05:50<Samu>i was connected via server list indeed
05:50<V453000>Wolf01: :)
05:51<Wolf01>it's useless to advertise a private server for testing only
05:51<Wolf01>V, furious hype
05:51<Samu>i see my server listed twice
05:51<Samu>127.0.0.1 and 84.91.250.188
05:52<Samu>i must have joined the wrong one
05:52<V453000>furious hype.
05:52<V453000>guys are finding a lot of desyncs and crashes lately, should be release-ready soon :)
05:53<V453000>I like how much mystery and wtf did I cause with the circuit connector module preview :)
05:53<Wolf01>:D
05:54<V453000>so, the "crane" is new train station graphics, wall is gate
05:56<Wolf01>I like it, it fits the setting more than the old "pole"
05:56<V453000>it has some extra features, too
05:56<V453000>(lights for actiity showing)
05:56<Samu>@logs
05:56<@DorpsGek>Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
05:57<Wolf01>I hope you changed the ticking sound too, it is driving me mad when I'm working on stations, I still hear it also when I go to sleep XD
06:04<Samu>i got a 3rd ip address
06:04<Samu>192.168.1.12
06:05<Samu>what a mess
06:05<Samu>sometimes this one is 192.168.1.11
06:05<Wolf01>you do really know how these things work, don't you?
06:08<Samu>sometimes I think I don't
06:09<Samu>so, no
06:09<Samu>127.0.0.1 never changes
06:10<Samu>that's the only thing I observe, and I'm not sure about it "never" changing
06:14<debdog>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localhost
06:19<Samu>i seem to have an ipv6 address too, a tunnel of some sort... this is hell
06:20<Wolf01>welcome to the IT world :)
06:20<Samu>fe80::a9a4:c62b:4b52:93ca%3
06:20<Alkel_U3>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Link-local_address
06:22<Samu>2001:0:9d38:6ab8:87a:36aa:aba4:543
06:23<Samu>ok, enough of that
06:28-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: .]
06:45<Samu>dbg: [net] [server] Client connected from ::1 on frame 2280508
06:45<Samu>::1 is ipv6 address?
06:46<Samu>yes, it seems
06:46<Samu>localhost for ipv6
06:48-!-Samu_ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:48<Samu_>@logs
06:48<@DorpsGek>Samu_: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
06:49<Samu_>start /D "C:\Program Files\OpenTTD" openttd.exe -b 8bpp-optimized -n :3980#255
06:49<Samu_>this means I'm joining my server 1 as spectator with ipv6 address ::1
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06:50<Samu__>why am I being dropped from chat
06:50<Samu__>:(
06:51-!-Samu___ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:51<Samu___>[11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to https://webirc.oftc.net:8443?channels=%23openttd&nick=Samu&uio=d4 and accept the certificate and try again
06:51-!-Samu____ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:52<Samu____>[11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to https://webirc.oftc.net:8443?channels=%23openttd&nick=Samu&uio=d4 and accept the certificate and try again
06:52-!-Samu_____ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:54-!-Samu_ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:54-!-Xarick [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:54<Xarick>test
06:54-!-OsteHove` [~OsteHovel@cE6A03E56.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd
06:54-!-Xarick [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:54-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:54-!-Samu_____ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:54<Wolf01>lol, chat annoyed by him?
06:54-!-Samu____ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:55-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:55-!-Samu___ [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:56-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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06:59<Samu_>test
06:59<Samu_>[11:50] == Disconnected from server: Failed to connect, please connect to https://webirc.oftc.net:8443?channels=%23openttd&nick=Samu&uio=d4 and accept the certificate and try again
06:59<Samu_>I'm in for real now?
07:00<Samu_>there is no certificate whatsoever that I can accept
07:00<Samu_>I don't know what's that about
07:03<Samu_>@logs
07:03<@DorpsGek>Samu_: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
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07:08-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
07:08<Samu>bla
07:29-!-FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
07:37-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
07:53<Samu>i'm gonna start logging scripts in a different manner
07:54<Samu>debuglevel script=9
07:54<greeter>have fun reading those logs lol
08:09-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
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08:25-!-KouDy [~koudy@mahdalviktor.netbox.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:33-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
08:37<andythenorth>o/
08:38-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b22.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:39<greeter>greetings andythenorth
08:42-!-FLHerne [~flh@cpc4-papw5-2-0-cust175.5-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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08:52-!-LondonCentralB7TL [~oftc-webi@5ac4e76c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
08:53<LondonCentralB7TL>Hey
08:56<@Alberth>yo
08:57<FLHerne>Oy
09:01-!-LondonCentralB7TL [~oftc-webi@5ac4e76c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:09-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:09<@Alberth>no london central here
09:12<Samu>arf... nocab
09:12<Samu>can't watch it
09:12<Samu>lost connection
09:13<Samu>if i rejoin, i will trigger a save
09:13<Samu>i need to do only one save, in 1st jan 2051
09:14<Samu>is there a way to schedule a save?
09:16<Samu>dbg: [net] send failed with error 10054 ‎*** Xarick Preto has left the game (connection lost) dbg: [net] Closed client connection 3
09:16<Samu>what is 10054 again :(
09:16<Samu>brb
09:18<Samu>Connection reset by peer.
09:19<Samu>An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host. This normally results if the peer application on the remote host is suddenly stopped, the host is rebooted, the host or remote network interface is disabled, or the remote host uses a hard close
09:20-!-KouDy_ [~koudy@mahdalviktor.netbox.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:20<Samu>well i hibernated
09:20<Samu>not really closed the connection
09:20<@Alberth>without disconnecting? yeah, that counts as "application suddenly stopped" :p
09:21<@Alberth>you have to send answers when you receive data
09:22<@Alberth>like "I received it in good/bad shape"
09:22<Samu>some connections stand
09:22<Samu>a few drop
09:22<@Alberth>no they don't
09:23<Samu>most of the time it stands, but lately i've been getting a mix
09:23<@Alberth>either the connection was really never there, or it is silently re-established
09:23-!-KouDy [~koudy@ip4-83-240-28-102.cust.nbox.cz] has joined #openttd
09:23<@Alberth>eg games just send you data without caring that you received it
09:24<@Alberth>that is faster, but not reliable
09:24<@Alberth>openttd wants confirmation, and sets up a proper network connection that gives reliability checks
09:24<Samu>what does windows do when it hibernates?
09:25<@Alberth>just die, from an external network point of view
09:25<Samu>i got 8 servers and 8 spectating instances, i tell windows, HIBERNATE NOW, i thought it pauses everything and saves current windows session state
09:25<Samu>but i dunno what happens under the hood
09:25<@Alberth>sure, inside your system
09:26<Samu>yes, they're all the same system
09:26<@Alberth>likely it uses timers with system time
09:26<@Alberth>so when you boot up again it finds a huge gap of time missing
09:28<andythenorth>hmmm
09:28<andythenorth>wheels https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjAtwRRXEAE3yxx.jpg
09:28<@Alberth>ha, heavy steel :)
09:29<@Alberth>how fast does that truck go?
09:31<andythenorth>probably 55mph or so
09:31<andythenorth>dunno :)
09:32<@Alberth>normal speed thus, which makes sense, I guess
09:32<@Alberth>sounds a bit dangerous that fast with so much weight behind you :p
09:36<andythenorth>74t gross weight
09:37<Samu>nice console command, getdate
09:37<Samu>i need to be using it often
09:38<Samu>there's no other way to tell the current date of nocab server, is it?
09:38<Samu>oh, maybe there is
09:38<Samu>https://www.openttd.org/en/server/101082
09:38<Samu>nice, better this way
09:39<andythenorth>seems they are 55mph, and 35mph in winter
09:39<@Alberth>:)
09:39<andythenorth>and restricted to travelling at certain times of day
09:39<andythenorth>and they have more brake force per wheel than ‘normal’ trucks
09:40<@Alberth>you'd really want that :)
09:40*andythenorth wonders about resurrecting RV-wagons concept
09:40<andythenorth>optional trailers for trucks, like building trains
09:40<andythenorth>there was a spec
09:41<Samu>do you know how I can trigger a save on 1st Jan 2051?
09:41<Samu>it's important that I save it by then
09:41<Samu>i can't miss it
09:42-!-Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
09:45<Samu>also note I can only save once, only got 1 shot, else nocab will take too long to save and crashes
09:45<Samu>i dont mind when it crashes on 1st jan 2051, that's when I end my testings
09:49<@Alberth>RVs can use a lot of love :)
09:50<andythenorth>currently they’re a bit restrictive
09:50<andythenorth>Road Hog is going to end visually quite bland, like default vehicles
09:50-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
09:51<andythenorth>upgrading from single-unit to trailer trucks isn’t possible (due to drive in stops)
09:51<andythenorth>so ~everything has to be a trailer truck
09:51<andythenorth>similar appearance and size for all generations
09:52<andythenorth>nvm :)
10:05<Wolf01>why do give fucks about this? with trains nobody stops you to upgrade to electrified if a station isn't and the train can't enter the station and deadlock the entire network
10:10<andythenorth>because that’s railtypes and fair mistake
10:10<andythenorth>RV stops are just a booby trap
10:10<andythenorth>it’s like the game punching you in the face just for lulz
10:11<Wolf01>I don't see it this way, it's part of the puzzle ;)
10:12<FLHerne>It sort of has to work that way, a HEQS tram backing into a drive-in stop would look ridiculous :P
10:12<andythenorth>doesn’t apply to trams ;)
10:12<andythenorth>you can’t ever have a tram with a drive-in stop in its orders
10:12<FLHerne>A string of crawlerwagons wouldn't be any better
10:13<Wolf01>still wrong example
10:13<andythenorth>those examples assumes the ‘problem’ is that RVs should be able to use drive-in stops ;)
10:13<andythenorth>assume *
10:14<andythenorth>it bugs me when the UI loads a gun for you, then asks you to point it at your head
10:15<andythenorth>then sends you helpful ‘you screwed up' messages after you’ve shot yourself
10:16<Wolf01>the only places I've seen trucks with semi trailers going in drive-in stations had an enormous free space to let trucks to maneuver
10:16<Wolf01>and clearly TT drive-in stations are thought for lorries, not trucks
10:17<Samu>mogul server is reaching 2051 real soon, same as AIAI
10:18<Wolf01>so, if I want to purchase a truck with semi trailer, or even a lorry with trailer, I should check where I need to send it
10:18<Wolf01>the same when you have 5 tile long stations and you purchase a mammoth 72 tiles train
10:19<andythenorth>nah, drive-in stops should just be removed
10:19<andythenorth>but no-one will do that because somebody will make a counter case
10:19<Wolf01>for the first stage of game and inner city delivering I like drive-in stops
10:19<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yep, they're quite useful
10:20<Wolf01>and I use lorries for those
10:20<andythenorth>someone suggested maybe showing station compatibility in buy menu
10:20<andythenorth>maybe frosch
10:20<ST2>I'll do a counter counter case, by the fact I agree with andythenorth xD
10:21<Samu>2051 :)
10:21<Samu>mogul has ended without crashing
10:21<FLHerne>Bleh, I have to confess these crawlers are bloody useless :-/
10:21<andythenorth>HEQS?
10:22<FLHerne>andythenorth: Yeah
10:22<andythenorth> completely stupid :)
10:22<andythenorth>they only make sense with NotRoadTypes
10:22<FLHerne>I try to use everything just to counter your and Pikka's "no-one uses everything!" grumblinkg
10:22<andythenorth>HEQS is stupid, but somehow it’s ok
10:22<FLHerne>But they're just so damn slow, a sane vehicle with a third of the capacity has just as much throughput
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10:23<Wolf01>if it was for them, we only had trains and trucks now :P
10:23<FLHerne>Or trams
10:23<andythenorth>they are a solution looking for a problem
10:24<Samu>Company Value: £2,007,985,370 - MogulAI
10:25<andythenorth>$someone should test push build of Road Hog
10:25<andythenorth>to see if I’m smoking crack with all this redrawing
10:26<FLHerne>This looked like a good place, but even for such a short route they were frustratingly sluggish https://i.imgur.com/aOFX9iM.png
10:26<FLHerne>(also, yes, roadtypes, otherwise they just look silly :P)
10:26<Samu>Company Value: £1,723,079,300 - AdmiralAI
10:26<Samu>mogul takes 1st place
10:27<andythenorth>FLHerne: want to help implement NotRoadTypes? o_O
10:27<Wolf01>I would
10:28<Samu>Company Value: £1,390,486,908 - Terron
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10:29<FLHerne>andythenorth: I'll put it on the list of things to do once I've done all the other things I never get round to :P
10:29<andythenorth>can’t be helped, eh? :P
10:30<andythenorth>so, tanker lorry, powered by steam? o_O
10:32<FLHerne>Sounds slightly anachronistic?
10:32<Wolf01>and even electric vehicles >2000
10:32<FLHerne>Barrels on dropside thing?
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10:33*andythenorth was wondering about fire risk
10:33<andythenorth>but eh
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11:09<Samu>ST2: Company value is the most generally accepted performance indicator
11:09<Samu>or do you have another view on it?
11:09<ST2>most common, yes
11:09<ST2>the most fair, no
11:09<Samu>well, how to make it fair?
11:10<ST2>consider the Bank account is a start ^^
11:10<ST2>CV can be exploited by buying alot of trains
11:11<@Rubidium>and bank account by taking out a loan
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11:12<Samu>i dont know if AIs can exploit that
11:12<Samu>probably they can
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11:12<ST2>Bank account = Cash you have - Loan
11:13<ST2>gladly OpenTTD allows GS's to read both and do the math ^^
11:14<Samu>i see some AIs that are always wasting money
11:14<Samu>hmm
11:14<ST2>the sad part is that info is only provided quarterly :(
11:14<Samu>what about yearly profits?
11:15<Samu>yearly income
11:15<ST2>that can be used too but easelly exploited too, by human players, I mean ^^
11:16<ST2>ideal is a mix ^^
11:16<Samu>i dont think humans can exploit 5000 vehicles in the last year anyway
11:16<ST2>but hard to define values
11:17<andythenorth>blearch
11:17<Samu>company value + last year income
11:17<Samu>hmm delivered cargo?
11:18<Samu>most profitable vehicle last year
11:18<Samu>is what i've been looking
11:18<Samu>but... meh
11:18<ST2>flip a coin :P
11:18<Samu>there are certain AIs, like terron, who like to sell vehicles tooo damn often
11:18<Samu>they don't even get a last year profit
11:19<andythenorth>why are the mining trucks in Road Hog? Anyone played it and used them?
11:20<Wormnest>Bank account is not always a good indicator
11:20<Wormnest>an ai that invests a lot will have a lower bank account than one that does invest a lot in improvements
11:21<Wormnest>*does not
11:21<Samu>i noticed that, but not always the case, it reaches a point where the many actions they need to do don't outpace the profit they earn
11:21<ST2>there's not a perfect one, if used isolated, imo
11:22<ST2>CV and performance can be a good mix
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11:23<Wormnest>Yea a combination is best
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11:25<ST2>we don't use it (community choice), but n-ice goal servers have a combo
11:25<ST2>like: [16:24:31] <+OTTD-3> --- First company with 100,000,000 EUR CV and a perf. score of 300 wins the game. ---
11:25<frosch123>andythenorth: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp1.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp2.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp3.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp4.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp5.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp6.png https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/statcomp7.png
11:25<frosch123>i need better names :/
11:25<frosch123>"Stations:" is weird
11:25<frosch123>also, what to display for trams?
11:26<Samu>performance rate, well all AIs reach 900 in less than 10 years
11:26<Samu>or most
11:26<frosch123>also, where to put this line between all the other ones?
11:28<andythenorth>frosch123: ‘Stations:’ is not bad
11:28<andythenorth>it’s exactly the noun
11:28<andythenorth>‘routing’ or something would be worse
11:28<andythenorth>name the thing for what it is
11:29<andythenorth>what would you put for trains? o_O
11:29<frosch123>nothing for ships and trains :)
11:30<FLHerne>andythenorth: I have, they're alright for short shuttle
11:30<frosch123>but since i added bus/truck for road vehicles, it may need tram/cargo-tram for trams?
11:30<frosch123>tram-stop, cargo-tram-stop :/
11:30<frosch123>or i just disply nothing for trams as well :)
11:31<Samu>pickup point?
11:31<andythenorth>frosch123: I figured nothing for trams
11:31<frosch123>not sure whether removeing the "bus-" and "truck-" part is good
11:31<andythenorth>but maybe the pax/freight thing is a point
11:31<frosch123>i just may be esier for translators
11:31<frosch123>*it
11:32<Samu>"compatible stations:"
11:32<frosch123>"all stops" and "drive-through-stops only" would work in english
11:32<Samu>oh, that 2nd part
11:33<frosch123>but maybe people don't get the bus/truck thingie :p
11:33<andythenorth>‘all’ might cause bus/truck problems :P
11:36<andythenorth>nice feature though
11:37*andythenorth removes all the mining trucks from Road Hog
11:38<Samu>oops, CPU (the AI named like that), needs some fine tunning in its parameters to be any decent, thing I better test him some other day
11:38<Samu>think*
11:42<Samu>Company Value: £1,780,553,625 - AIAI
11:42<Samu>slightly better than AdmiralAI
11:43<Samu>i suspect they use the same code
11:46<Samu>Automatic Idiot AI version iota (95)
11:46<Samu>lol
11:46<Samu>resuses code from: bla bla bla, AdmiralAI, bla bla
11:47<Samu>heh I suspected as much
11:48<Samu>they were mimicing many stuff
11:48<Samu>but interesting
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12:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm usually hesitant when andythenorth says "i remove every X", but yes, mining (or all off-road) stuff belongs into HEQS
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12:55<andythenorth>HEQS is dead
12:55*andythenorth makes bold assertions :P
12:58<Wolf01>then you wanted this
12:59<Wolf01>bah, with this font it doesn't look so bold :(
12:59<andythenorth>:P
12:59<andythenorth>wfm
12:59<Wolf01>should I purchase another arocs?
12:59<+glx>again ?
13:00<andythenorth>no
13:00<andythenorth>you have enough
13:00<Wolf01>I need moar parts
13:00<andythenorth>Lego is like food
13:00<andythenorth>you keep eating, you don’t know you’ve eaten too much until you feel sick
13:00<+glx>drug in his case ;)
13:00<Wolf01>but I'm slim and hungry :(
13:03<andythenorth>articulated steam trucks eh
13:03<andythenorth>http://www.theroyalwindsorwebsite.com/images01/transport/101926%20T%20R%20Sanders%206%20wheeler%206719%20700.jpg
13:03<Wolf01>wonderful :D
13:03<andythenorth>bit of variation from ‘cargo truck + cargo trailer’
13:03<andythenorth>buy menu was getting very boring
13:04<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: did you see this yesterday? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7839/truck-size-capacity-4.png
13:04<andythenorth>‘roughly’ the same size
13:04<andythenorth>I think it’s the correct approach
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>no, i did not
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>if there's like 2 decades between them, it should be fine
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>of course, truck capacities are hugely exaggerated in this game.
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13:10<andythenorth>there are about 29 years per generation
13:10<andythenorth>seemed about right
13:11<andythenorth>the more I fake the trucks against reality, the better they look :P
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13:21<Samu>12 more years and RoadRunner server reaches 2051
13:21<Samu>non-cheating RoadRunner
13:27<Samu>is it even worth trying rondje?
13:27<Samu>he doesn't build anything on his own solo, or did that change?
13:28<Samu>choochoo also doesn't look worth trying, but... oh well
13:46<@Rubidium>Samu: it did win the TJIP AI challenge
13:49<Samu>what's a tjip challenge?
13:51<@Rubidium>Samu: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=36059
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14:09<Wormnest>Too bad several of the contestants never made an online release of their ai
14:10<Samu>nice read, odd to see NoCAB having trouble
14:10<Samu>i don't recognize many of the AIs there
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14:11<Samu>so, if rondje didn't change at all
14:11<Samu>it's worthless to even try it
14:11<Samu>he's going to be solo
14:11<Samu>and solo he does nothing
14:11<Samu>unless some human player joins the server
14:12<Samu>I won't be counting on that
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14:13<Samu>i'm still testing otvi
14:13<Samu>the darn thing is slow
14:13<Samu>this is its 4th day? 5th?
14:15<Wormnest>I may have a look at it when im done with nocab.
14:15<Wormnest>It does interesting things sometimes but at other times it seems to get stuck
14:16<Samu>he's not stuck, he's just spamming "we got enough money to connect stuffs" "can't build; max vehicle limit reached", and looping all over again non-stop, it's stressing the server with major stalls
14:21<Samu>CPU time for Otvi server: 38 hours, 42 minutes
14:22<Samu>he's still in year 2014
14:31<Samu>mogulai does an interesting thing
14:32<Samu>Processing Damn Authorities: and he starts planting trees
14:32<Samu>Damn Authorities is the name he called it
14:32<Samu>Processing is the action
14:33<Samu>he processes several normal stuff, but i got a laugh out of that one
14:35<jaenster>lol
14:38<Samu>otvi buys out other companies, also says interesting stuff about them
14:38<Samu>cleaning up, firing people and stuff
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14:39<Samu>he goes on to destroy empty stations
14:39<Samu>negative vehicles
14:39<Samu>it's interesting
14:39<jaenster>lol
14:40<Samu>AIAI also has some weird lines
14:40<Samu>"We're rich! Statues!"
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14:46<andythenorth>livestock trucks are really long
14:46<andythenorth>cows must be low density :P
14:57<@Alberth>:)
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14:59<drac_boy>hi
15:00<drac_boy>been quite a while since I last checked here heh .. then again hmm things been a bit quiet with the grf here tho
15:05<Samu>ugh, that cpu evaluatior fix breaks too many AIs
15:06<Samu>add choochoo to the list
15:06<drac_boy>trying to bugfix or make a new AI?
15:07<Samu>choochoo can't start
15:07<Samu>cluelessplus can't start
15:08<Samu>gonna test all them, see who can't start due to that fix
15:08<Samu>should be quick
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15:11<drac_boy>ah I see...have fun with that anyhow
15:11<jaenster>Goodluck
15:14<drac_boy>just asking, any of you working on or planning some inkling for a grf of any sort?
15:14<jaenster>inkling?
15:16<drac_boy>jaenster see first two definitions here https://www.wordnik.com/words/inkling
15:16<drac_boy>:->
15:16<jaenster>Thanks mate
15:17<drac_boy>just asking, you from a nonenglish country?
15:17<jaenster>The netherlands, yes
15:17<jaenster>im not programming @ openttd, or help in anyway
15:17<drac_boy>netherlands? hm really? funny because I'm trying to work out ordering a bicycle from a well known company there :)
15:17<jaenster>im just one of those many autistic people that enjoy ttd
15:17<jaenster>Gazelle? ^^
15:18<andythenorth>drac_boy: I don’t work on grfs
15:18<drac_boy>jaenster this http://www.workcycles.com/home-products/handmade-city-bicycles/workcycles-fr8-universal-frame-as-city-bike
15:18<drac_boy>added a few small options such as full rear carrier and engraved nameplate but otherwise its alike to that photo (in mild green not plain black tho)
15:19<jaenster>i seen it y
15:19<jaenster>i got a bike costing 25 euros, second hand
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15:19<jaenster>so.. i dont really seem to care about it
15:19<drac_boy>I'm ordering oversea because tbh almost noone in this stupid country knows what a gear hub is or how to design a frame for heavy weights :-s
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15:19<drac_boy><canada
15:19<jaenster>use /me
15:20*jaenster is from the netherlands
15:20<drac_boy>the only non-derailuer bicycle you can even buy are basically single-speed bicycles ... >_<
15:20<@Rubidium>drac_boy: where does it need to go to?
15:20<drac_boy>I'll have fun with the shimano 8spd coasterbrake gearhub as soon as the bicycle can get here :)
15:21<drac_boy>from NL to CAD? or thats not what you were asking me? :)
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15:21<@Rubidium>drac_boy: there are dealers in North America
15:21<@Rubidium>so maybe shipping is cheaper from there to you
15:22<@Rubidium>http://www.workcycles.com/dealers
15:23<drac_boy>ah .. well no the only dealers are in usa and they don't even do customizations at all
15:23<drac_boy>but thanks tho :)
15:23<jaenster>why everyone is so amazed when they see all the bikes here in the netherlands
15:23<jaenster>i dont see the point, where i work i meet allot of forgein people and they all are amazed xD
15:25<drac_boy>jaenster well like I said .. the local bicycles here have no gearhub option and often come with weak light-duty frames :->
15:26<jaenster>y.. like i said.. i dont really care about bikes
15:26<jaenster>use it every day=)
15:26<jaenster>in an hour i got to work, i will bike=)
15:26<@Alberth>on nice flat road :)
15:26<andythenorth>drac_boy: I sell you my bike?
15:26*jaenster slaps Alberth
15:27<andythenorth>not mine, but same bike http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-scott-sub-10-8-speed-alfine-commuter-hybrid-bike
15:27<@Rubidium>drac_boy: just get into contact with them using the form you get after clicking on "Purchase Information"
15:27<andythenorth>8 speed hub, zero maintenance so far, except brakes
15:27<andythenorth>goes like stink
15:27<drac_boy>jaenster well as soon as the workcycle gets here I'll be happy to use it for occasional trips including getting some food then head back home just like that :)
15:28<jaenster>^^ n00b
15:28<jaenster>Use it for everything, point over
15:28<jaenster>get a cheapass bike, use it for everything
15:28<drac_boy>plus the kelvar-skinned tires would make easier work of the rutty surfaces some of the streets here have :-s
15:28<jaenster>You dont need a special bike to use it
15:28<drac_boy>jaenster..I told you noone here even knows how to make a frame for heavy duty uses
15:28<jaenster>Learn to bike without hands and steer without hands.. then you dont feel the rutty surface's
15:30*Rubidium uses a bike whenever it's not incredibly annoying to use one (e.g. I won't use it when public transport takes less than 50% of the travel time by bicycle)
15:30<jaenster>y, i got a car too Rubidium, so i use that too sometimes
15:31*Rubidium doesn't
15:32<jaenster>y.. its too price
15:32<jaenster>im thinking of giving it up too
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15:33<drac_boy>(sidenote: the frame is rated for 250kg so that would make easy work of 40kg in middle and two large juices plus some fruits in front then misc bags strapped to the rear bars ... and bounce down the uneven road at same time :)
15:34<@Rubidium>drac_boy: you could also come to the shop in Amsterdam. Getting here from Canada can be dirt cheap (if your flight gets delayed by more than 4 hours and the flight costs less than EUR 600
15:35<jaenster>depends where you live tho
15:37<drac_boy>:)
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15:37<jaenster>Why are there no rentable bikes in openttd?
15:37<jaenster>><
15:38<@Rubidium>same reason there are no taxis
15:38<jaenster>cuz they suck, or cuz they are not public transportation?
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15:39<andythenorth>drac_boy: if you want a tough frame http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/
15:39<andythenorth>you don’t need it though :P
15:39<@Alberth>there is no tycoon money in it
15:39<jaenster>haha Alberth, thats it y
15:39<andythenorth>breaking your frame is rare
15:40<andythenorth>breaking your rack is more common :P
15:40<jaenster>or breaking your face when you fall
15:41<andythenorth>ha
15:41<drac_boy>jaenster I think the problem with bicycle in ottd is it only can carry one single passenger so its not even worth using much at all :)
15:42<drac_boy>although it could almost just work in simutrans if you have a very small village with only one worker once in a while
15:42<andythenorth>if that’s the only problem...
15:45<drac_boy>I think theres at least one taxi car grf somewhere for sure tho
15:46<@Rubidium>but that still picks up people from a bus stop and drops them there
15:46<@Rubidium>so one could also implement rickshaws
15:47<@Rubidium>but that doesn't really implement the door-to-door behaviour of those things
15:48<Samu>got another AI crashing with that CPU evaluator: MailAI
15:48<andythenorth>this book has self-piloting bikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman
15:48<andythenorth>it’s…surrealism
15:54<@peter1138>my bike goes where it wants, i just pedal it
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16:17<drac_boy>anyway think will just go off soon .. sorting out some hardware :->
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16:20<andythenorth>this is like a house going down the road https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5554/14822373289_26947a9a4f_b.jpg
16:21<@Alberth>better than a real house being moved :)
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17:46<Samu>back
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17:48<Samu>this fix is questionable https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6473?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
17:48<Samu>but... i dunno
17:49<Samu>a quick testing through most AIs that I use, ChooChoo, CluelessPlus and MailAI can't start
17:50<Samu>isn't there another way to fix it?
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17:51<Samu>cluelessplus really got killed with it
17:52<Samu>choochoo may take a bit of time to trigger the cpu evaluation fix, but usually within the first year, it is killed
17:52<Samu>mailai, swame as choochoo
17:52<Samu>same*
17:53<Samu>:( what could be done?
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18:45<Wolf01>'night
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22:35<Quinch>Hi folks.
22:37<Quinch>Got a quick question, are there any AIs that factor in infrastructure costs into their decisionmaking?
22:42<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
22:43<Eddi|zuHause>(but i have not followed AI development)
22:43<Quinch>Nuts.
22:43<Eddi|zuHause>in general, every gameplay feature that is meant to hinder the player will be totally devastating to AIs
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 12 00:00:57 2016