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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-14

---Logopened Tue Jun 14 00:00:00 2016
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03:56<V453000>as fuck
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03:57<Wolf01>pfffff biters started to annoy my outposts with mammoth biters :(
03:58<V453000>bobs mods?
03:58<Wolf01>they are even able to bite once the walls
03:58<Wolf01>no, the base green ones
03:58<V453000>behemot then :P
03:58<Wolf01>same fucks :P
03:58<V453000>anyway, Big biters should already be able to bite 1 tile behind walls
03:59<Wolf01>what are walls then? newjerseys?
04:00<V453000>well that's why people build 2 layer walls :)
04:00<V453000>or lower cost option - have 1 tile gap between wall and turritz
04:02<Wolf01>I should review outpost's layout, maybe I should move the walls 10 tiles away from the turrets, so even spitters have a bad time, and even use blue belts to keep biters away from walls
04:03<V453000>turn it to bits
04:03<V453000>but ultimately the best defense is moar turretz
04:04<V453000>just have 2-3 layers of laser turrets behind 2 layer wall, roboports to fix/replace damaged/destroyed things, and you are fine
04:05<Wolf01>as I build them now, they are just a square which acts a buffer stop for the railway, with 7 laser turrets around an energy substation and a radar
04:05<V453000>yeah 7 substations won't compete well against behemoths :P
04:11<Wolf01>meh, behemoth spitters too
04:17<Alkel_U3>I saw a nice mod providing turrets shooting tank shells, decent garaphics, too. Only issue was friendly fire :D
04:19<Alkel_U3>haven't tried them, though
04:27<Wolf01>btw, V, filtered chests are going to be in 0.13?
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04:37<V453000>I don't think so but I will check
04:38<Wolf01>just make any inventory filterable, it would be a great improvement
04:41<Wolf01>it's a total waste to have chests limited to just 1-2 spaces when you can have many items inside with their space reserved instead
04:41<Wolf01>like train wagons
04:42<V453000>well you can have up to 4 different items with wires to inserters :)
04:42<V453000>nope, no filters yet :)
04:42<Wolf01>but from 4 different directions
04:42<V453000>I don't consider that an issue tbh
04:42<V453000>I think there might even be a way to make the circuitry for 1 inserter for any amount of cargoes
04:43<V453000>in 0.13
04:43<V453000>since you can read hand contents
04:43<Wolf01>not an issue, but a major annoyance, I could have 1 chest instead of 8 on the outposts
04:43<V453000>just put a wagon there. :P
04:43<V453000>I don't find it annoying at all tbh, I can just easily ctrl+click 1 chest to get 1 specific item I want
04:44<Wolf01>yeah, but flying-fucks can't get from the wagons
04:44<Wolf01>eh, I do it that too, but stations have limited space
05:05<V453000>flying fucks are boring as fuck
05:06<Wolf01>less boring than going to search through all chests what you need to refill in your inventory
05:09<Wolf01>mmmh, a little image just gave me an idea, there's a rock on a patch of stone, would it be possible with mods to make the rock drop a patch of stone when destroyed?
05:10<V453000>the rocks are mineable in 0.13, giving 20 stone
05:12<Wolf01>I'm also thinking to convert Factorio to C&C, I already saw a mod for harvesters, now I only need mines which create infinite patches of raw materials and V2 rockets
05:12<V453000>mods for infinite resources are there, with depleting yield
05:13<V453000>which kind of does the same
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05:52<Wolf01>the candle (K&L) inserters are really good, I know the puzzle game story blah blah, but sometimes I just want to concentrate on other things
05:56<Wolf01>I could do the same with more stuff just to not spoil the puzzle game, but then I can put all in blueprints and the puzzle game will go nuts
06:02<Alkel_U3>I'm gonna have to try these someday. I've tried the side inserter mod so far and I think it was great refreshment. Too bad I'm busy with OpenTTD and being affraid of starting a new Factorio game just before .13 comes out these days :D
06:20<Wolf01>shit, why rails always offset the blueprints by 1 tile?
06:22<Wolf01>rotating odd sized things mixed with even sized things is a pita :(
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06:43<Wolf01> now you do this whole thing with one constant combinator
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07:08<Samu>somebody joined, played and didn't desync
07:08<Samu>but then I had to hibernate last night, he got connection lost today
07:14<Samu>it impresses me how they always find the tiniest place to build and make a profit in 64x64 maps
07:14<Samu>there's 14 AIs there messing up the entire world
07:15<Samu>messy roads, failed connections, and yet, someone joins and still makes a living company out of it
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07:20<Samu>of all those AIs, one stands out, AIAI
07:21<Samu>he got a profitable company, despite all the chaos he creates, so many bus jams
07:24<Samu>syntrans also surprises me for a different reason
07:25<Samu>he managed to build 3 airports, on a 64x64 map, despite all that chaotic roads, one airport is evevn city version
07:26<Samu>2 small, 1 city
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07:35<Wolf01>I read 2 girls 1 cup :(
07:37<Wolf01>that shit still haunts me since my coworker found it and "rickrolled" the entire company
07:37<Wolf01>(yes, even the boss)
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08:21<Samu>ok, i see why, darn station spreading cheaters
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08:36<Samu>scrollto console command
08:36<Samu>i'd like to suggest a scrollto center
08:40<Samu>is there an easy way to calculate the center tile of the map?
08:45<Samu>servers always start at the top corner
08:45<Samu>dedicated servers*
08:45<Samu>why don't they start with viewport centered?
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08:58<@peter1138>because you can't see it
09:00<Samu>ppl who join the server use his viewport location
09:02<Samu>and if I'm a gui server, it even uses my viewport if I happen to be playing
09:02<Samu>they know exactly where I'm working on
09:02<@peter1138>pff, who uses non-dedi servers...
09:03<Samu>many ppl actually
09:05<_dp_>I think I brought that up once too, scrolling to center makes much more sense to me
09:06<_dp_>would even benefit titlegame
09:06<_dp_>like, right now it's just forest on 4k
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>but then you can't hide stuff on the title game
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>currently you know "this area is never seen", so you can build ugly control contraptions there
09:07<@peter1138>who would build ugly control contraptions?
09:08<_dp_>you think control contraptions are worse than forest?)
09:10<_dp_>well, you can still build them far enough
09:11<_dp_>and for 4-8k monitors it's probably wiser to zoom in a bit anyway
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>640k ought to be enough for everyone?
09:11<Alkel_U3>is there a way to tell an openttd instance to use nondefault autosave location? I'd like to have all instances look into ~/.openttd but use different autosave dir so I can quickly tell which is which in the event of a server crash (and separate configs in that dir, but that one's clear)
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can set autosave location separately
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>it's always relative to the config file location
09:14<Alkel_U3>too bad, although it's not a big deal, just matter of convenience
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could make ~/.openttd/server1/config.cfg
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>it'll still look for grfs and stuff in ~/.openttd
09:16<_dp_>Eddi|zuHause, well, in 2100 for someone with 1024k tilegame will be just a tiny green blot anyway so no use thinking that much ahead :p
09:17<Alkel_U3>will it? Ok, great! I assumed it wouldn't. Thanks
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>just all newly downloaded stuff will end up in ~/.openttd/server1
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>there is also a (read-only) "shared" directory, where you can put grfs
09:19<Alkel_U3>well, since I'll be usually preparing new configuration on local singleplayer I'll be uploading newgrfs manualy, anyway
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>something like /usr/share/games/openttd
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>configurable on compile time
09:20<Alkel_U3>oh, I completely forgot about that one
09:21<Wolf01><Samu> they know exactly where I'm working on <- sounds like a kid rant
09:21<Sacro>Arch has several different openttd packages with differing locations
09:21<Sacro>.openttd, .openttd-svn, .openttd-rc
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>sounds horrible
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09:23<Alkel_U3>I assume those come from aur?
09:25<Alkel_U3>back on Manjaro I tried to install Dwarf Fortress and some related utilities from AUR, only to find out that I can't rely on any level of interoperability between those packages unless explicitely specified...
09:27<Wolf01>V453000, it's fun how the most talked argument in the forum is "how to hack factorio to get steam achievements"
09:29<V453000>lol is it
09:29<V453000>I don't have time to read forums tbh
09:29<Sacro>Yeah, AUR, I wrote most of them
09:29-!-pereba_ [~adiirc@2804:7f2:80:c6fe:fd60:5d54:2591:40d] has joined #openttd
09:29<V453000>but right now I am working on a gui for a new ultra amazing feature
09:29<V453000>people will shit brix
09:30<Sacro>Wolf01: which forum?
09:30<Wolf01>factorio releases
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is the point to "hack" achievements?
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>iron price!
09:32<Wolf01>it seem that it's the only reason to exist for some people
09:32<@peter1138>there used to be tf2 servers set up just to get specific achievements
09:32<Alkel_U3>wtf is the point of achievments? :-)
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>achievements are great.
09:32<Alkel_U3>I don't need the game telling me I'm having fun :P
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09:32<Eddi|zuHause>if they are done right, they encourage you to play the game in ways you wouldn't have explored otherwise
09:33<Wolf01>yeah, *if they are done right*
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09:34<Wolf01>achievements which make you grind 142542 monsters or play for 5000 hours are a nonsense
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, some achievements are just absurd, like "as saxony, own all provinces producing porcellan"
09:35<Wolf01>"kill 50 men with an arrow in the eye as a woman"
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>but there's nothing wrong with "form persia and conquer greece"
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09:36<Wolf01>that even tries to teach you some story
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>well, most of these have some kind of story behind them
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know most of the stories, though
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>and "Meissner Porzellan" is also a story...
09:38<Wolf01>achievements "you completed the mission xyz" are pointless, it's part of the main plot, you have to complete it
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>i see those as a measurement baseline on how many people are actually playing the game
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>instead of buying it and never trying, or giving up after the tutorial or so
09:40<Wolf01>you can complete the whole list by loading a savegame from another player
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09:40<Wolf01>at least many games do that
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's not the greatest measurement tool, yes
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>but probably "good enough"
09:41<Alkel_U3>I like when it's not directly called achievments and provides something in return for completing it; like completing challenges to get badass ranks in Borderlands 2 - you get badass poits to redeem for minor stat improvements. I still don't see enough motivation for just unlocking an icon saying "you did that" unless it seems like an interesting challenge from the start
09:42<Alkel_U3>although I agree that there definitely are games which can do that right
09:45<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: sounds like Eu4
09:45<Wolf01>for example, take the Magicka achievements, some of them are really funny to do ingame or subtle citations from movies or books
09:47<Wolf01>some of them also teach you another way to do something
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: well, my 3rd attempt at saxony finally working out :p
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>just the achievement is still absurd
09:50<Sacro>I don't have many acheivments yet
09:50<Sacro>Enjoyijg HoI4 though
09:50<Samu>MailAI and gelignAIte servers have reached 2051
09:50<Wolf01> LOL bye factorio
09:51<Eddi|zuHause>i currently have 35 out of 185 achievements
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i was just playing and "wtf? there was an achievement for that?" :p
09:54<Wolf01>too bad that steamstats doesn't work now, but last time I gave it a look I had about 14% of my total achievements
09:59<Wolf01>oh it seem that I played a lot, now I'm at 31%, but that's the average and not the real one
10:02<Samu>what's Modulo by zero error?
10:02<Wolf01>you can't divide by 0
10:04<Sacro>Maybe you can't
10:04<Samu>Trans is erroring
10:04<Samu>with Modulo by 0 when trying to place hq it seems
10:05<Samu>dbg: [script] [0] [S] Your script made an error: modulo by zero dbg: [script] [0] [S] dbg: [script] [0] [S] *FUNCTION [On_Start()] trans_ai-130722\task\build_hq.nut line [38]
10:07<Samu> if (counter % My.ID != 0) continue;
10:09<Samu>dbg: [script] [0] [S] [counter] 1
10:09<Samu>counter is 1
10:09<Samu>how do i find the other value?
10:09<supermop>Alkel_U3: patched server up?
10:10<Samu>My.ID is company number?
10:11<Samu>he's company 0
10:11<Samu>1 % 0 is Modulo by zero error?
10:11<Samu>so if he's company 1, it won't error?
10:11<Samu>I can arrange that
10:16<supermop>work interenet still slow today
10:19<Samu>nice, Trans started fine on the 2nd slot
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>in soviet russia, 0 divides YOU
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10:22<supermop>is there an eddi zu Arbeit?
10:25<Samu> - reported
10:25<Samu>i see fanioz is inactive
10:25<Samu>wonder who could fix it?
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10:27<Samu>PAXLink server reached 2051
10:29<Samu>i have no more road vehicle AIs to add to my tests
10:30<Samu>yay, i expect tomorrow to be done with road vehicle tests
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11:07<@Alberth>anybody who obeys the license restrictions on the AI can fix it
11:12<Alkel_U3>supermop_: it's been running sinceyesterday evening
11:14<Alkel_U3>supermop_: aargh, I detached from the screen in copy mode again
11:14<Alkel_U3>ok, now it's running :D
11:14<Alkel_U3>next time I'll run it with -f
11:15<supermop_>Alkel_U3: i think the connection at work is still slow today so might not be able to connect today, maybe in the evening
11:17<Alkel_U3>supermop_: how many hours till your evening?
11:18<Alkel_U3>I just got home from work, too tired to guestimate :D
11:19<supermop_>i typically work until 19:00, new york time
11:19<supermop_>so about 8 hours
11:21<Alkel_U3>well, the map is 1024^2 this time so there's still gonna be space left :D
11:22<Alkel_U3>and more both industries and cities
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11:36<supermop_>oh i didnt see you were already in the south west
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11:37<supermop_>this messes up my plans for running an isolated little network on that penesula
11:37<Alkel_U3>ah, so you are the mysterious 'player' :-)
11:38<Alkel_U3>yeah, I'm in green, camouflage :P
11:38<supermop_>i guess i don't have name set on my work computer
11:38<supermop_>maybe ill go to the north east then
11:38<Alkel_U3>nothing a little console command can't fix
11:39<Alkel_U3>there's a lot of flat ground in between those mountains :-)
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11:50<supermop_>now how to get through that coastal farmland to finish this line as far as the refinery
11:51<supermop_>Dagon Fel is the natural terminus for the railway
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11:51<Alkel_U3>seriously, all of it? :D
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11:52<Alkel_U3>ok, I was going to expand elswhere in the nearest future... :D
11:53<supermop_>i just want to run along the southern coast of the penensula
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11:53<supermop_>we can have a union station in dagon if you are going to continue onto the mainland through there
11:54<Alkel_U3>oh yeah, you gotta share, you gotta care. I'd almost forget :D
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11:55<Alkel_U3>i also forgot to actually turn infra sharing at the start, I enabled it in the console at work today
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12:05<supermop_>ok maxed out loan
12:07<supermop_>but hopefully this first line and train will be profitable
12:07<supermop_>and keep my ratings in towns high enough to start adding some industrial services
12:08<Alkel_U3>I guess it will, the daylength patch makes it a lot easier
12:10<supermop_>are there any GS on this?
12:11<supermop_>you have a preference for terminal or through station at Dagon?
12:12<supermop_>how about 2 platforms each
12:12<Alkel_U3>through will be easier if used as hub, I think
12:12<supermop_>i only need length 5 for now
12:12<Alkel_U3>you wanna keep it segregated?
12:12<supermop_>dont care
12:13<supermop_>i will proably timetable trains into there
12:13<supermop_>and might have them lay-up to stay on time
12:13<Alkel_U3>i always use fully automatic timetables on pax service in this patchpack
12:13<supermop_>so if it is a terminus, i'll probably always have one platform occupied
12:14<supermop_>i'll probably run on a 30-day schedule, maybe 60
12:14<supermop_>in which case ill have trains wait 31 or 61 days, so they leave after the next service arrives
12:15<supermop_>but i can't afford the extra trains yet
12:15<supermop_>ill build as 4 tracks, and ill terminate on the eastern two, you can run through on the western two?
12:15<Alkel_U3>um... you do acount for the daylength setting, right? - it would be stationary for majority of time :-)
12:16<supermop_>whatever the scale equivalent of 30 day wait would be
12:16<supermop_>6 days?
12:16<Alkel_U3>well, I won't be connecting in the near future
12:16<Alkel_U3>I guess
12:17<supermop_>ill figure it out with the dept. board
12:18<Alkel_U3>do you want it to wait there to save on fuel or for synchronization purposes?
12:18<supermop_>to catch up if late
12:18<Alkel_U3>you can just use the automatic separation
12:18<supermop_>terminus might make more sense with town layout
12:19<supermop_>as a north south through line has to bridge over that bay
12:19<Alkel_U3>it adjusts automaticaly the times and start dates. It has the benefit of not having to redo the schedule when you upgrade the engine
12:20<supermop_>doing the schedule is my favorite part!
12:20<Alkel_U3>I personaly would build the station further and have trams connect it with the city :-)
12:21<Alkel_U3>well, it gets tedious after a while, at least in my case
12:24<Alkel_U3>but if you find enjoyment in that, i won't be stopping you :-)
12:26<supermop_>i certainly prefer automatic for trams
12:26<Samu>pathzilla reached 2051
12:26<Alkel_U3>yeah, that would be well beyond tedious
12:27<supermop_>ok 4 tracks, 6 tiles long
12:27<Alkel_U3>oh shoot, Ordinamat is taken :D
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12:36<supermop_>terminating in a stub line station instead
12:36<_dp_>hm, somehow forests stopped regrowing after my treegen tweak...
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12:43<supermop_>hmm you think you'll run along the north shore to dagon fel, or on my trackage?
12:46<Alkel_U3>sorry can't keep up with both ingame chat and here :D
12:46<Alkel_U3>too many fronts
12:48<Alkel_U3>to answer the question - I'd find it more logical to connect to Assernerairan
12:51<supermop_>ah, then run on my line, or transfer passengers? can also connect onto my line via fruit spur
12:51<Alkel_U3>transfer would be preffered
12:52<supermop_>lets me avoid double tracking that far out so soon if we don't have twice as many trains on the line
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12:55<Samu>aww rats, i forgot to save 2051 for pathzilla
12:55<Samu>darn me
12:55<Samu>time to repeat
12:56<Samu>this really sucks, isn't there a way to schedule a savegame on 1st jan 2051? I totally forgot about this one
12:56<Samu>he also takes too long to save
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13:06<supermop_>Alkel_U3: what are you thinking about hlervu? branch line?
13:06<supermop_>yo andythenorth
13:06<supermop_>brb lunch
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13:06<Alkel_U3>supermop_: I don't have plans for it :-)
13:07<supermop_>ill add a branch after lunch
13:07<Alkel_U3>also I'll be mostly afk for an hour or so, need to cook
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13:09<Samu>convoy reached 2051
13:09<Samu>i'm also restarting civilai, i didn't like how he bankrupted last time I tried
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13:09<Samu>trying different parameter values now
13:10<Samu>im unsure if I also retry CPU
13:11<Samu>he took a long while to "take off"
13:11<Samu>but then he didn't do all that much when he had the money
13:11<Wolf01>bah, blizzard broke the servers again :|
13:13<Samu>can anyone help? any server script expert?
13:14<Samu>i start a game on 1950 with PathZilla, and I'd like the server to perform a save exactly on 1st Jan 2051
13:14<Alkel_U3>hah, for a secondI thought an actuall blizzard disrupted someone's openttd server :D
13:14<Samu>what must I do?
13:16<Samu>ST2: do you know?
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13:45<Samu>AroAI reached2051
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13:56<andythenorth>is cat eh?
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13:57<Samu>Trans is doing bad roads
13:58<Samu>I don't recall trans being this bad
13:58<Samu>what happened?
13:58<Samu>can't even connect a depot to a road now
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14:05<andythenorth>cat is in your code
14:05<andythenorth>refactoring your trucks
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14:06<andythenorth>this code is super awesome
14:06<andythenorth> if slice.spriterow_num is not None:
14:06<andythenorth> slice.spriterow_num = slice.spriterow_num
14:07<V453000>I don't think I want to know what that does
14:08<andythenorth>work it out :)
14:08<andythenorth>it’s a trick question
14:08<V453000>if bullshit exists, then is bullshit?
14:09<frosch123>"slice" sounds like cake
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14:13<V453000>probably something like sprite row?
14:13<V453000>oh, slice.spriterow
14:15<andythenorth>it’s just nonsense
14:15<andythenorth>I have deleted it, no consequence :P
14:17<Alkel_U3>supermop_: still lunch?
14:17<supermop_>building now
14:17<supermop_>doubling the line on the eastern portion
14:18<Alkel_U3>allright, I really need to tap Assernerairan asap :D
14:18<supermop_>want another platform?
14:18<supermop_>1 or 2?
14:18<Alkel_U3>traffic tries to route over the northern peninsula, it's oversaturated
14:18<supermop_>and enter from east or west?
14:19<Alkel_U3>build 1 more and let me enter any from east?
14:20<supermop_>center platform bi-directional?
14:20<Alkel_U3>yeah, probably best like that
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14:20<rc>hi everyone
14:20<rc>i need some help
14:20<supermop_>or do you want dedicated just for your terminus?
14:20<@Alberth>hi hi back, from everyone
14:21<Alkel_U3>I like when things are connected :D
14:21-!-rc is now known as Guest4373
14:21<Alkel_U3>although on the other hand I'll have just 1 train there for now
14:22<Guest4373> anyone know how to use wotan crossing in latest openttd 1.6
14:22<@Alberth>what's a wotan crossing?
14:23<Guest4373>see this
14:23<supermop_>Alkel_U3: how are you coming across the river from the east? from madas zebba?
14:23<Guest4373>see there wotan crossing
14:23<Alkel_U3>supermop_: yes
14:24<@Alberth>Guest4373: did you read the big message on that page?
14:24<Alkel_U3>supermop_: I'd best connect right at the station
14:24<supermop_>ok build your bridge across river and ill connect to station approach
14:24<supermop_>ok or that
14:26<Guest4373>which big message bro
14:27<Alkel_U3>probably the one right at the top?
14:27<Guest4373>historic containts ?
14:28<@Alberth> red parts are added by me
14:29<Guest4373>ohh ok
14:29<Guest4373>then do u know how to create crossings to avoid train and bus collussion
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>build a bridge.
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>in some cases, building a signal some distance away from the crossing helps
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>and if the crossing is double tracked, you're lost.
14:30<Guest4373>or there is any grf for crossing 32bpp
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>probably. but they don't chang behaviour, only looks
14:31<@Alberth>standard baseset should have it
14:32<Guest4373>standard means opengfx?
14:34<@Alberth>or zbase
14:34<Guest4373>its not there :(
14:34<V453000>is opengfx standard?
14:34<V453000>dark times
14:34<@Alberth>we may need a new standard :)
14:35<andythenorth>basesets :(
14:39<V453000>finishing BRIX is still one of the things I would like to eventually do, but factorio just takes all of my attention, especially now
14:39<V453000>I still believe I will find the time to finish it one day :)
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14:40<rc_>any help
14:40<Wolf01>andythenorth, new audi truck for your amusement:
14:41<andythenorth>Wolf01: looks like a coffee machine :)
14:41<rc_>help for crreating crossings
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14:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's a double rainbow
14:43<Samu>Wolf01: are you Timberwolf on the forum?
14:46<Samu>weird music for an ottd video
14:46<Wolf01>"now I found a way to solve it" really easy by building bridges?
14:46<rc_>ya but i need this kind of stuff
14:46<rc_>its cool
14:47<rc_>i found it
14:47<Wolf01>even if I love Iron Maiden, I think that 1.the music is not suitable; 2.soon or late youtube will ask you to remove the video or mutes the audio :)
14:47<rc_>but dont knw how to use that
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: for a video that is there already for 5 years?
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14:48<Wolf01>not many views, or not viewed by the wrong people
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14:49<rc_>do u knw?
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: the kind of people that mute or block music in videos use bots for that
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>or at least googles content-id
14:49<Samu>"OpenTTD movie"
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>and if that cannot detect this music being used, there's a bigger problem :p
14:50<@Alberth>rc_: make a newgrf for personal use
14:50<rc_>how to do that
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>there used to be a program that converted the old 32bpp stuff into a newgrf
14:51<@Alberth>can you program or are you willing to learn?
14:51<rc_>willing to learn
14:52<rc_>@alberth do u knw
14:52<@Alberth>no, except it should be possible in some way with NML
14:55<Samu>Alberth: are game scripts supposed to be active in scenario editor?
14:55<Samu>there is no definite answer
14:55<@Alberth>no idea, it does seem a bit weird
14:56<@Alberth>there is not a game world you want to control there
14:56<Samu>there's towns and industries for gs
14:56<@Alberth>on the other hand, you do want to be able to add/set/have a GS in a scenario, I think
14:57<@Alberth>which sort of implies you should be able to add/set it in some way
14:57<Samu>there is no standard behaviour
14:57<Samu>sometimes it's active, sometimes it's not
14:58<@Alberth>that sounds likely, probably nobody considered the SE while adding GS
14:58<Samu>Timberwolf must have been dealing with this issue
14:59<Samu>I've also had to deal with it, I did not change its behaviour
14:59<Samu>but I find it kinda buggy
14:59<@Alberth>yeah, likely it should not be active
15:00<@Alberth>you're making the scenario, rather than playing it
15:02<Samu>it's the loading that will activate the scripts
15:03<Samu>loading of a savegame, or scenario in this case
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15:33<andythenorth>is that a good variable name?
15:33<Wolf01>yes, pretty explainatory
15:33<andythenorth>messes up my lines :P
15:35<@Alberth>wider screen, smaller letters ?
15:37<frosch123>s/overriding/jinxing/ is shorter
15:38<andythenorth>also this is property is only used in ~5% of cases
15:38<andythenorth>so I’ll forget it exists, and reinvent it :P
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16:43<Wolf01>V453000, hype
16:44<V453000>I don't even know when tbh
16:44<V453000>soon TM
16:44<V453000>I just keep working on my things and making them as good as possible for the release
16:45*Wolf01 hands V453000 a beer
16:46<V453000>nah ty :P beer after releae
16:46<V453000>a lot of it
16:46<V453000>also I just went through my saves and discovered that I have around 200h on them in total :D
16:46<V453000>would like to put around 100h into my 0.13 base
16:47<Wolf01>wow, I have about 140 hours in total, pre-steam + steam time
16:47<V453000> well my steam hours are inflated by testing time, having game run at background etc
16:48<V453000>so I just take total of savegame game time
16:48<V453000>which is quite accurate actually
16:49<Wolf01>wso, yesterday I found how to reproduce the weird fact about underground belts I talked about the last time
16:51<Wolf01>if you build 2 underground belts in the span of 4 tiles and you remove the middle pieces, one of the entrances will automatically change to an exit
16:52<Wolf01>because it tries to "fix" the belt continuity
16:52<V453000>uhh what
16:52<V453000>picture pls?
16:54<Wolf01>if you remove the middle exits, randomly the top or the bottom entrances will become an exit
16:54<V453000>of course
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16:57<Wolf01>if you don't pay attention when building contraptions like the lane switcher/separator you'll end up breaking things up to 5 5 tiles away without noticing it
16:58<Wolf01>that's why I said the underground belts should always be whole, like ottd tunnels/bridges
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16:58<V453000>I don't value that as an issue tbh
17:00<V453000>I definitely have a bigger problem with the rocket lacking any meaning, effect, or reason
17:01<Wolf01>put in an ion cannon, people like ion cannons
17:01<V453000>that isn't enough
17:01<V453000>that only changes how you eradicate bugs
17:01<V453000>the least interesting part of the game
17:01<Wolf01>or even a microwave satellite to send energy on a receiver on the ground
17:01<V453000>my plan is to either have this in the vanilla game by 0.14, or I might even make a mod which just adds rocket-based researches
17:02<V453000>so you send satellite, satellite sends you scientific data -> rocket science \o/
17:03<Wolf01>but you need rocket science to make a rocket
17:03<V453000>I mean a new science pack obtained from a resource which is gathered by sending rocket
17:04<V453000>key feature is that the rockets quickly decrease yield the more of them you send, so it matters which you choose first
17:04<V453000>and they are upgrades which drastically change how you build your factory
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17:07<Wolf01>and what do you expect to find in space to be able to boost your production? idroponic? no food beside fish, no agriculture because the game is about destroying the environment... meteoric iron? what for?... aliens? you are already crashed in an alien world
17:07<V453000>but yeah let's see
17:07<V453000>eh, does it matter? scientific data.
17:07<V453000>It's not like science packs make much sense ... inserter + belt = scientific progress?
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17:08<V453000>you explore planets, how physics there work, chemical processes, ...
17:08<Wolf01>sounds like a different game
17:08<V453000>it is exactly the same game
17:08<V453000>invest resources, get research
17:09<V453000>except the rocket actually does -something- in the game
17:09<V453000>also, it would produce a fuckload of pollution upon launch
17:09<V453000>right now launching a rocket is nothing but a waste of resources
17:10<Wolf01>it's the "final" objective
17:10<V453000>which is cute, and that's fine
17:10<Wolf01>if you don't make it final you need to find another final objective
17:10<V453000>the rocket science I am talking about is more of a post game thing
17:11<V453000>you get a message like now after first rocket, that doesn't mean you should stop playing ... just like most of the players do
17:11<V453000>does openttd have a final objective?
17:11<V453000>survive till 2050, that's probably even worse
17:11<Wolf01>it's like civilization, where you had to build the colonial spaceship before year 4000 or what, it was a waste of resources
17:12<V453000>sure, but my point is that it can remain the end goal, AND have a reasonable meaning for people who want to continue
17:13<V453000>not to mention that suddenly attempting to launch the rocket ASAP has some actual reasoning too - to get the massive bonus of your choice earlier
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17:13<frosch123>btw. is there a method to automatically start rockets when ready?
17:13<V453000>yes frosch123
17:13<frosch123>ok, i did not figure that out then :)
17:14<frosch123>i need that to test whether the production is sufficient for constant rocket launching
17:14<V453000>the thing is, with such a heavily based game on sandbox and freeplay, having a goal is kind of useless Wolf01 ... as many people prove. I do agree that it is good to have things to work towards, but that's why there should be a 15-20 mission campaign with exactly that.
17:14<Wolf01>and what if you fire a rocket and it sends you down the environment data which shows you the planet won't sustain life anymore, a timer starts and you have 2 options: build another rocket to escape and crash into another alien planet or try to get environment friendly and clean out the pollution, plant trees, breed biters
17:14<V453000>frosch123: if you MOAR enough :P
17:14<Wolf01>the more the pollution before you send the rocket, few time you have
17:15<V453000>that makes zero sense with how the game works Wolf01
17:15<frosch123>Wolf01: btw. some construtions require to place half-tunnels of different speed, so that they do not join up
17:15<V453000>^ :)
17:16<V453000>the whole point Wolf01 is to escape the planet, not try to stay there
17:16<V453000>I know, the rocket science doesn't make any sense in that respect either
17:16<Wolf01>so, go for the first option
17:16<V453000>but I can at least justify it with something like searching space for where home is, finding scientific data meanwhile
17:17<V453000>no, starting a new game shouldn't be "the ending"
17:17<V453000>people would generally want to avoid it
17:18<Alkel_U3>maybe i like to play a psychopath who crashed on a planet with the devotion to completely wreck it's ecosystem and eventualy turn it into something like Mustafar :P
17:18<V453000>also as Alkel_U3 says. :)
17:19<Wolf01>you won't start a new game, the game ends and shows you a happy video which tells "yeah, other 24542 crashes like this and I'll be at home"
17:19<V453000>the ecology game is kind of inverse :) MOAR pRODUCTIONZ
17:19<V453000>that's dumb Wolf01
17:19<V453000>"game ends" is where it fails horribly. Sandbox doesn't need to end. That is exactly the same like openttd
17:19<V453000>you end when you want to
17:19<frosch123> <- haha, released 4 days ago
17:20<V453000>just at some stage the game informs you that you have "won enough"
17:20<Alkel_U3>"You turned the whole planet into a volcano. You freakin' won!" :D
17:20<V453000>basically. :D
17:20<V453000>frosch123: nice
17:21<V453000>Wolf01: I think you are just missing a proper and longer campaign
17:21<V453000>because that's pretty exact how the campaign can end, but not freeplay
17:21<Wolf01><V453000> just at some stage the game informs you that you have "won enough" <- like the old money overflow on ottd?
17:21<V453000>openttd does this message in year 2050
17:21<V453000>which is even less interesting than sending the rocket
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17:22<frosch123>just start in 2051 :p
17:22<V453000>as sending the rocket is a technical achievement, surviving till 2050, sleeping at the keyboard, not really
17:22<V453000>well frosch123 :P
17:22<frosch123>i like the rocket, it allows continuous production without having to add storage space
17:22<Wolf01>in 2050 you haven't won enough, when you overflow the money and you find you have a huge amount of negative balance you have won enough
17:22<frosch123>just send stuff into space and increment some counter
17:22<Wolf01>even if you manage to achieve that in 1935
17:23<V453000>frosch123: nothing would change with that, in fact it would be encouraged by it having a reason
17:24<V453000>having the rocket cause pollution would actually make it noticeable that you are making gigantic fireworks for nearby biters, and them actually noticing
17:24<frosch123>also, i still enjoy the rocket revealing the 2d graphics aspect :p
17:24<V453000>and you getting technologies from rockets over time, gives at least some progression
17:24<V453000>heh, well
17:24<Wolf01>if you can start a massive biters attack to the rocket silo from every place of the world, then it could be interesting
17:24<V453000>I won't spoil your experience by ranting about other 2D things :P
17:25<frosch123>about polution, in my current game the explored map has a homogeneous shade
17:25<frosch123>does that mean i have to explore more?
17:25<V453000>no you just need MOAR
17:25<frosch123>V453000: do i spoil your work by saying that i have not bothered researching in at least over a year?
17:26<V453000>you mean the technologies?
17:26<frosch123>yeah, i just cheat research-all at start, set manual mininig speed to 100, and start building rails :p
17:26<V453000>well, of course you can do that
17:27<V453000>I don't think many people do, but fine
17:27<V453000>but it doesn't go agains having reasonable game mechanic :P
17:27<V453000>my suggestion still doesn't ruin your fun in any way
17:27<V453000>it just build upon it
17:28<Wolf01>I built the rocket silo and launched a rocket with a satellite once, just to see it once, then after understanding it was really pointless I decided to avoid it entirely, maybe if you can make it attractive...
17:28<V453000>isn't that what I am talking about the whole time? :D
17:28<V453000>that's precisely it
17:29<Wolf01>yes, but sending up 2000 rockets doesn't change my idea about it, even if it sends down a "science packet"... for what?
17:30<V453000>of course, at some point you get "why do I do this"
17:30<V453000>you can say that at literally any point of the game
17:30<Wolf01>if I fire up a rocket and it send down a spidertron I would do it every 3 minutes
17:31<V453000>my point is, anything you do in the game, is more impactful than the rocket
17:31<V453000>researching, expanding, anything
17:32<V453000>and as you say, after I launch the rocket, I saw how it looks, but pointless and I won't do it again
17:32<Wolf01>for example, now I'm busy on building railways in every direction, I don't think a rocket will help me do that, maybe if I fire one over that fucking large behemot spitters nest I'm not able to get rid of...
17:32<V453000>of course it won't
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17:32<V453000>it won't ruin your creativity and will to build whatever interesting base you like
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17:32<V453000>it would be wrong if it did
17:35<V453000>anyway, I kind of think it will end up just as my mod ... which is fine, the only difference will probably be that the science data items won't spawn in the rocket silo, but in some new special entity.
17:37<frosch123>i also need shared orders btw :p
17:37<V453000>yeah that would be nice
17:38<V453000>not yet though
17:38<V453000>anyway, gnight
17:43<Wolf01> ha! I'm ROTFL
17:56<frosch123>maybe it should be linked from the junction tutorial in the ottd wiki :)
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18:55<Samu>ST2: why did you disable autosaves? I think I know why
18:56<ST2>was kinda pointless have 28 servers making autosaves that never were necessary
18:56<ST2>but each client have that set as they want ^^
18:57<Samu>oh, so not really what I thought
18:58<Samu>ST2: can you take a look at this?
18:58<ST2>@ work
18:58<Samu>oh :)
18:59<Samu>at midnight
19:02<Samu>to summarize, the best thing out of that patch is the ability to continue running the server while performing autosaves
19:02<Samu>customize autosaves to encode with a fast format
19:03<Samu>instead of stalling
19:05<Samu>there may be a drawback, depending on perpsective: since the server does not stop when doing autosaves, cpu usage can go as up to 2 full core usage
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19:07<Samu>doesn't stick to the usual single core usage
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19:09<Samu>i might update that with v5
19:09<Samu>I'm thinking of combining save empty script with it
19:11<Samu>no more waiting for AIs/GSs to save, it kinda fits
19:11<Samu>and also less data saved
19:12<Samu>k, brb editing it
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19:46<Samu>posted new version
19:47<Samu>point b) and b.1)
19:47<ST2>ah, and yeah, tuesdays are always like this, since I work on a weekly newspapper/magazine
19:48<ST2>it's closing edition day/night
19:49<Samu>when i post something, the download counter automagically gets to 2
19:49<Samu>bots are downloading...
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19:54<Samu>my typos on describing the features, ughh
19:54<Samu>just corrected them
19:56<Samu>uhm nope, still not correct
19:56<Samu>my english is failing me
19:57<Samu>This removes yet another stall during game state copying, and reduces the size needed to be compressed and the size needed to send the map to the client.
19:57<Samu>good english?
19:58<Samu>who's native english speaker?
19:59<Samu>a little help
20:01<Supercheese>sounds good
20:02<Supercheese>could add commas if you like commas
20:02<Supercheese>optional though
20:02<Samu>This removes yet another stall during game state copy, while reducing the size of the map that is to be compressed and then sent to the client.
20:03<Samu>game state copy or game state copying?
20:04<Supercheese>either, but I'd like the -ing
20:05<Samu>ok, thx for the help
20:05<Samu>fixing it
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20:08<Samu>okay, cyas all goodnight
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20:35<supermop_>yo Supercheese
20:36<supermop_>feel like havent seen you around in awhile
20:37*Supercheese shrugs
20:37<Supercheese>I idle a lot
20:38<supermop_>how's it going
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20:52<Supercheese>War Thunder
20:52<Supercheese>lots of War Thunder
20:53<Supercheese>and Stellaris
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---Logclosed Wed Jun 15 00:00:02 2016