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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-15

---Logopened Wed Jun 15 00:00:02 2016
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04:50<Samu>Trans crashed, took too long to save
04:50<Samu>oh hell...
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05:21<Wolf01>>_> V453000 did you release something? I see achievements on the factorio page
05:25<V453000>the achievement have been there for like 2 weeks now
05:25<V453000>but train graphics are in master now :)
05:25<V453000>awesomeness intensifies
05:25<Wolf01>really achievements were already there? I never noticed them in the last days
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05:33<Wolf01>btw have you seen the new dlc for fallout 4? it's going full factorio
05:33<Sacro>V453000: factorio dev?
05:34<Wolf01>no, it happens that he is just one of their graphics designers
05:35<Sacro>Tbh I see a lot of crossover between TTD and Factorio
05:35<Wolf01>yes, they share even the userbase
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06:55<monsted_>i'd love to see a full integration between factorio and openttd. use factorio worlds as cities in openttd and use openttd transportation between them
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06:57<Samu> the last 5
06:59<Samu>top - PathZilla, SimpleAI
07:00<Samu>mid - Trans, RoadAI
07:00<Samu>bot - CivilAI
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08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose that's a step up from "i want sim city integrated into openttd"
08:02<Wolf01>I would like ottd integrated in factorio
08:03<Eddi|zuHause>how about integrating openttd into eu4?
08:04<Wolf01>windward into ottd would be cool
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>well, the "windward islands" are already in eu4 :p
08:05<Alkel_U3>How about factorio in openttd in eu4 in master of orion 2
08:06<Wolf01>what I really want is a true sandbox game where you are not limited by the scope of the game
08:07<Wolf01>for example minecraft heavily modded is about what I want
08:08<monsted_>Wolf01: there are mods that try to add decent train logic in factorio, but there's a ways to go yet
08:10<Alkel_U3>well, .13 should basicaly have programmable signals, right?
08:13<Wolf01>I don't mean just trains, I'm already happy with the current ones (and the upcoming features will be fantastic), but for example I feel that the game misses some "macro" automation, after you've set up the 125th mine, even with blueprints, you might want something more automated, like you find a new ore spot and place a single machinery instead of waiting for your swarm of flying fucks to
08:13<Wolf01>empty your inventory full of belts and harvesters
08:13<monsted_>it does have a scalability problem
08:14<Wolf01>the bucket wheel mod is a good start imho
08:14<monsted_>i just put down a Mk3 bucket wheel excavator :)
08:14<monsted_>like, literally a minute ago
08:16<monsted_>orbital ion cannons helps with another of the scalability issues - it becomes soooooo tedious to out aliens when the evolution level hits max
08:16<monsted_>s/to out/to clear out/
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08:22<Wolf01>also different wagons with different (un)loading methods would be cool, like hoppers for ores and the current system only for goods
08:23<Wolf01>I know the spirit of the game is to use the inserters for everything, but it gets boring after some time
08:24<Wolf01>different means of transportation, reduce the inventory space of the car (a buggy doesn't need so much space), add half-tracked lorries with trailers
08:28<Wolf01>and this one will get me stabbed in the back for sure: different size for items, it's funny you can store 50000 trains in a crate, they shouldn't be stackable and use up to 3x6 squares in inventory, or even built in depots connected to tracks
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08:33<Wolf01>and a use for the rockets: quick delivery anywhere, you load stuff in the silo, build a rocket and ask an orbital drop 10000km away in the lone outpost
08:49<Samu>Rip OpenTTD
08:59<Alkel_U3>Or a 50kt payload onto an especially nasty boter nest :D
09:01<Wolf01>yeah, I'm trying to clean up the route for my railway and I have huge nests with behemoths all the way :|
09:01<Wolf01>I would like a good way to wipe them out
09:03<Alkel_U3>the orbital cannons are handy
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09:13<Samu>so this chat is now offtopic
09:14<Samu> - why do ppl like that reach end game maps
09:20<Samu>ever since PoE became announced on Steam, it's been downfalling
09:29<Alkel_U3>I don't see how you got the idea of the channel being offtopic. It's Factorio with some OpenTTD to fill in the gaps. Seems pretty consistent to me ;)
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09:38<Wolf01>heh, cleared the little nest
09:39<Wolf01>it took 3 hours
09:39<Wolf01>with laser turrets, rockets, capsules
09:53<Samu>question, Foster bus and Foster MKii Superbus can't reach their max speeds
09:53<Samu>bug or intended?
09:54<Samu>i've set them going in a straight top NW to south SE on a 64x4096 road
09:55<Samu>using realistic acceleration
09:55<Samu>no slopes at all in the terrain, it's plain
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09:56<Samu>foster bus maxes out at 101/102 km/h
09:57<Samu>foster superbus maxes out at 118/119 km/h
09:58<Samu>101/102 out of 112 km/h, and 118/119 out of 127 km/h.
09:58<Samu>fully loaded
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10:08<supermop>i doubt those were designed with realistic accelleration in mind
10:09<Samu>testing toyland buses
10:10<Samu>toyland buses can reach their max speeds
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10:25<supermop>Alkel_U3: how goes the server?
10:26<Alkel_U3>supermop: probably running for real this time? :D
10:27<Alkel_U3>I don't know, I literally just got home
10:28<supermop>out all night?
10:28<Alkel_U3>Like 10 s before you wrote
10:28<supermop>till 4 pm?
10:28<Alkel_U3>The server was out again?
10:30<Alkel_U3>Oh, me
10:30<supermop>just remarking that it must be late for you to be just getting home
10:30<supermop>unless you mean home from a days work
10:31<Alkel_U3>Yes, from work
10:32<supermop>I was able to get capacity up a bit last night
10:32<Alkel_U3>oh, great. No welcome home beer in the fridge...
10:32<Alkel_U3>Save me mr. Freezer
10:33<supermop>we are running low ourselves - dinner was a spicy xian / western chinese noodle dish that required me to kill off the last of the lager
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10:33<supermop>and now we are down to one can of a summer ale and one of a belgian pale ale
10:34<supermop>yo Alberth
10:34<Alkel_U3>I still have some in stock, but I'll have to restock before saturday for party :-)
10:35<Alkel_U3>I actually connected in the morning for a bit, saw your request
10:35<supermop>i need farglider to connect me at the other end of the valley too
10:35<supermop>haven't looked at it yet today though
10:36<Alkel_U3>I also saw that you added a platform at the first hub to the west - that's for me or do you want me to move my line so you can have three platforms?
10:37<Alkel_U3>or make it combined
10:37<supermop>i was thinking i'd need three when i tripled the line, but for now i think i am ok
10:42<Alkel_U3>hm, I see you have some trains permanently stopped in depots - that's on purpose?
10:42<supermop>yeah, in the process of being cascaded, moving stock around
10:43<Wolf01>o/ Alberth
10:43<Sacro>\o Wolf01
10:43<@Alberth>o/ Sacro
10:43<supermop>those stanleys will work freight branches now that the SW line is streamliner expresses and emu locals
10:44<supermop>saving the old-fashioned passenger cars to extend emu trains in the future
10:45<supermop>need a line up and over that center southern bay to move old stock to the eastern line
10:45<Alkel_U3>oh, wow, I'll have to add more platforms along that route from Dagon Fel, as well as more trains. Insane traffic
10:45<supermop>on my line or yours?
10:46<Wolf01>are you playing a Tamriel map?
10:46<supermop>im losing money apparently
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10:46<Alkel_U3>just using Elder Srolls town names :-)
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10:47<Alkel_U3>crap internet connection again?
10:47<supermop>having trouble connecting
10:47<supermop>yeah ill try later
10:48<supermop>going to go get a snack or something
10:49<Sacro>o/ Alberth
10:49<Alkel_U3>good thing that I complained about the beer - I'd otherwise didn't have a track of the time of inserting it in the freezer
10:53<Wolf01>mmmh, I wonder how $3.99 became €4.38
10:53<Wolf01>I expected €3.55
10:54<supermop>been a long time since EUR was that weak relative to USD
10:54<supermop>who's selling?
10:54<Wolf01>I think I was charged by paypal fees
10:54<Wolf01>but nothing says that
10:54<supermop>so not just blatant price discrimination
10:55<supermop>either is about the same, i'd actually just say 'charged paypal fees'
10:56<supermop>charged of sounds a bit odd
10:56<Wolf01>so... 11 more steam games, I'm without hope
10:56<Alkel_U3>of playing them all :P
10:57<Wolf01>I already have 400+ games waiting to be played
10:57<supermop>charged by kind of makes since in a cartoonish was as it personifies the fees themselves rather than paypal
11:09<@Alberth>Wolf01: card may now only be used to give to charity, at least until you played > 200 games
11:10<monsted_>supermop: the EUR is plummeting because britain seems to be leaving
11:10<supermop>monsted_: EUR is still worth more than 1 USD
11:12<supermop>also technically UK is not a member of the Euro currency, so the value of the GBP or the absence of it does not directly affect European central banks or the value of the EUR
11:13<monsted_>it affects the EU in general, so people are losing confidence in it
11:13<supermop>the UK leaving will cause market uncertainty and likely impede the economies of member countries
11:14<monsted_>and it's not like investment is particularly logical, a lot of movement seems pretty random
11:14<supermop>but at this time there only speculative pressure on the EUR rather than hard valuation pressure
11:14<supermop>but Wolf01 should still pay less than 4 EUR for something that costs 4 USD at today's rates
11:15<Wolf01>the difference is VAT, but they should have said that
11:16<Wolf01>the price they show is VAT free
11:16<supermop>also market uncertainty about UK exit is also exerting downward pressures on US markets, as non-unified market makes Europe a less certain trading partner
11:17<supermop>so USD should also be pressed down by a similar, but weaker amount
11:17<supermop>as of course US is less dependent on EU as EU is on Britain, but it is still a major economic partner
11:18<supermop>not just for export, but in coordinating monetary policy
11:19<supermop>although currently the UK, Fed and ECB do coordinate and would presumably continue to do so
11:19<supermop>BoE more precisely than UK as a whole
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12:45<supermop>yo andythenorth
12:48<supermop>lunch time
12:49<Samu>found another bug in scenario editor
12:49<Samu>oh nope, not a bug, my bad
12:51*andythenorth has been writing automation since Sunday
12:51<andythenorth>to save time
12:52<andythenorth>deleted about 200 lines of code to get to that
12:53<andythenorth>or more
12:53<Alkel_U3>yes, save time :-)
12:59<andythenorth>it also saves time by codifying some design decisions and preventing other choices in future
12:59<andythenorth>less thinking :P
12:59<andythenorth>less testing :P
12:59<andythenorth>less changing stuff :P
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13:05<@Alberth>ha, I'd need to see that first :)
13:06<@Alberth>:O @property magic
13:06<@Alberth>never got the hang of those @ things :)
13:06<andythenorth>I like @property decorator
13:06<andythenorth>I am unconvinced by any others
13:07<andythenorth>including setter version
13:07<@Alberth>sounds right :)
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13:27<andythenorth>I should release another Road Hog beta
13:27<andythenorth>but I don’t know what new bugs I introduced :P
13:39<Samu> just checked all road vehicles
13:40<Samu>there's only 2 models that won't reach maximum speed in a straight road
13:40<Samu>the two Foster bus models
13:42<supermop>Samu: none of the default vehicles were designed with realistic acceleration in mind
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13:48<Samu>t.t - took me a while to test all tilesets
13:57<supermop>those vehicles were conceived in the early 90s, long long before anyone thought about applying any sort of physics to the game
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14:12<supermop>I guess some people, if a friend told them that they were really enjoying hanging out, would then feel compelled to never see that friend again
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14:13<supermop>because if someone else enjoys your company, clearly they are gaining from it, and therefore you are losing something?
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14:13<andythenorth>zero sum?
14:15<supermop>seems to be the argument
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14:15<supermop>not my fight but frustrating to watch nonetheless
14:15<supermop>also it is relevant to New York
14:15-!-TheIJ [~rita@2a03:b0c0:0:1010::95:4001] has joined #openttd
14:16<supermop>although that more fuel for 'leave'
14:16<@Alberth>ha, so if I hate to have you around, you'd never leave? :p
14:16<supermop>"New York is better off if we stay in, therefore we must leave!"
14:17<supermop>I am suspecting it is less about self-benefit, and more about spite at this point
14:17<Samu>the entirety of users just left and joined openttd
14:18<supermop>as most of the arguments seem to hinge on 'do they benefit' rather than 'do we see any real harm'
14:18<supermop>Samu: we only say you leave and rejoin
14:18<supermop>Samu only netsplit i guess
14:20<Samu>ah, so that's what a netsplit is
14:20<andythenorth>hmm, maybe 100 changes since last RH beta
14:21<supermop>usually at least some users would be on the same side of the split as you
14:21<supermop>but seems in this case only you were on that side of the break
14:22<supermop>so presumably it was somewhat physically close to you
14:27<andythenorth>most of coding is choosing the names it seems :P
14:31<@Alberth>avoids getting confused
14:34<Alkel_U3>supermop: so what about the internet now :-)
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14:41<supermop>been doing actual work haven't tried recently
14:41<Alkel_U3>oh, I forgot you're at work :-)
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14:48<andythenorth>bloody Road Hog
14:49<@Alberth>everything painted red :p
14:49<andythenorth>I want it done, but I want it good
14:49<andythenorth>rock, hard place
14:49<andythenorth>ocean, deep blue sea
14:50<andythenorth>moon, new york city
14:50*andythenorth wants to start Nautilius, but things must be finished first
14:53<supermop>ooh boy
14:54<supermop>first time i've gotten a godwin's law response out of someone
14:55<supermop>particularly impressive seeing the subject at hand
14:57<Alkel_U3>I hope it was something like influence of unicorn overpopulation on banana fertility
14:57*andythenorth looks at openttd
14:57<andythenorth>ha ha, Iron Horse is so distant from reality for British trains
14:57<andythenorth>dunno why I was worrying about Road Hog realism
14:57<supermop>andythenorth: needs more 08s
14:57<andythenorth>zero is a good number
14:57<andythenorth>for gronks
14:58<andythenorth>I would have had to make it 650hp and 65mph or so
14:58<andythenorth>instead of 350hp and 17mph or so
15:00<supermop>just round up to 1/8 length, 2000hp, 125mph
15:02<supermop>also have you seen one of those in real life? they are pretty bulky to have only 350 hp in them
15:02<supermop>even considering their age
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15:08<supermop>hmmm... feed trolls?
15:08<Wolf01>V453000, hype
15:09<Wolf01>andythenorth, VW beetle hype
15:10<supermop>i'm feeling yes, feed
15:10<supermop>actually maybe i am the troll?
15:14<andythenorth>“if you don’t know who the troll is, you’re the troll”
15:14<andythenorth>ach, no, that’s poke
15:15<andythenorth>poker *
15:15<andythenorth>Wolf01: looks nice, not something I’d buy, but design is sharp eh?
15:18*andythenorth considers writing a parser to read an nml template and put the sprite template values into the compile
15:18<andythenorth>this is definitely more logical than putting the values in the compile, and writing them into the nml template :P
15:19<Wolf01>I can't not buy it, I have the transporter, the mini cooper, the F40... :D
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15:21<supermop>Wolf01: i had my eye on the f40
15:21<supermop>how is it
15:22<Wolf01>really good
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15:23<andythenorth>so I need to detect all 8 angles individually in row of vehicle sprites
15:23<andythenorth>with PIL
15:23<Wolf01>I like how they made the air intakes
15:23<andythenorth>(1) know the co-ordinates of the blue boxes on the template?
15:24<andythenorth>(2) detect the white gutters between the blue boxes automatically with PIL?
15:24<andythenorth>every spritesheet has same template
15:25<supermop>Wolf01: yeah the naca ducts looked clever
15:29<andythenorth>the beetle is spectacularly better than the previous dark blue one
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15:32<Wolf01>different styles
15:37<@Alberth>find non-white boxes?
15:38<@Alberth>I am pretty sure I wrote that somewhen in the past, but for what again??? :(
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15:42<@Alberth> <-- andythenorth ?? may it be useful to you
15:43<andythenorth>find any box that’s not white
15:43<andythenorth>nicely done
15:44<andythenorth>the simplest way is just to move the nml sprite template co-ordinates into the compile
15:44<andythenorth>auto-detecting it is much cooler
15:44<@Alberth>less faster too :p
15:44<andythenorth>do I want ‘cool’ or ‘done in 5 mins’? :P
15:47*andythenorth will decide tomorrow :)
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16:18<supermop>Alkel_U3: still no luck
16:26<Alkel_U3>joys of internet connection in 2016 :-)
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16:31<Alkel_U3>supermop: well, I'm gonna take advantage of you still not requiring the extra platform in Dagon Fel - I increased traffic there considerably so it's handy for me :-)
16:36<Alkel_U3>if you'll want me to scooch over, just build an extra platform and leave a sign
16:42<Samu>RoadAI reached 2051 :)
16:49<supermop>wont have time to play tonight at home - going straight from work to a concert in brooklyn
16:53<Alkel_U3>I probably won't play too much till sunday
16:56<supermop>i could use a new house set
16:57<supermop>swedish houses is the last new, full town set to my knowledge
16:57<supermop>i wonder whatever happened to that guy making the nice tropical/favela houses
16:58<Alkel_U3>I started doing one for same reason, but I got barely anything done. I need to motivate myself more
17:03<Alkel_U3>I can't even find the little what's done on my hdd >:I
17:16<Samu>uhm... i'm looking at syntrans info.nut and, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but when I try to change the max distance value in OpenTTD, it changes the log level instead if I got dev tools disabled
17:17<Samu>my english.... !
17:20<Samu>AddLabels part is changing the value of the hidden setting,
17:20<Samu>log level
17:20<supermop>i've started various attempts both in 8bpp pixel art and rendered sprites over the years, but yeah i never had the motivation for it
17:21<Samu>looks like the bug is in the gui part of the code
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17:28<Alkel_U3>I still didn't find the sprites but I found an old photo reminding me of another project I was going to perform
17:31<supermop>pickling something?
17:32<Alkel_U3>yeah, wursts
17:32-!-Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:33<Alkel_U3>3 years since the last time, I can't get myself to do it
17:34<Alkel_U3>strange thing is that it's not even that hard to make and the result was great... well, I guess I'll pick up the ingredients tommorow, lest I forget about it again
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17:42<Alkel_U3>anyway gnight
17:44<Samu>this is gonna be hard to report, i need some help
17:45<Samu>Dropdown Setting is changing value of non-visible Parameter
17:45<Samu>steps to reproducing it are hard
17:45<Samu>i dont know how to begin
17:51<Samu>needs several tools at once
17:51<Samu>a .tar extractor
17:51<Samu>a txt editor
17:51<Samu>a specific value in a setting in openttd.cfg
17:52<Samu>I'm already lost
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18:09<Samu>Anyone please tell me if this report is clear enough, or if it is confusing
18:09<Samu>do i have to attach syntrans or will you download it from bananas?
18:09<Samu>I suspect it is a iterator problem in ai_gui.cpp
18:12<ST2>Samu: about 6479, did the changes got applies on server full restart?
18:13<Samu>when i close openttd, it changes log_level instead
18:13<Samu>and not route_distance
18:13<Samu>i made typo in the report t.t
18:13<Samu>can't edit it
18:15<ST2>so, is that an Interface bug or a AI bug?
18:15<Samu>interface bug in my opinion
18:16<Samu>refresh, i added a comment
18:16<ST2>note: test a bunch of GS's and try modify parameters - some dnt apply
18:16<ST2>and by some, I mean not all
18:17<ST2>so, you have a long way of reporting Interface bugs
18:17<Samu>it seems to be a bug with dropdowns, and text querying
18:17<ST2>not saying that can't be a bug there... only saying that your info is way too short
18:17<Samu>and another.. let me see ai_gui.cpp
18:18<Samu> virtual void OnQueryTextFinished(char *str)
18:18<Samu>virtual void OnDropdownSelect(int widget, int index)
18:18<Samu>okay, just these 2
18:18<Samu>line 542, and line 531
18:19<Samu>these 2 functions are not taking into account if the parameter is hidden or not
18:21<Samu>funny that i've been working intensively with ai_gui.cpp these last 2 months and only now I saw this
18:21<ST2>1 thing is sure, OpenTTD (at current state) have some issues on modify files under W7 / W10 - depending on your security settings
18:21<ST2>even with a fresh install
18:22<Samu>I don't know how to fix this :(
18:23<Samu>it's a problem with the iterator
18:23<Samu>i was never successful when i messed with iterators before
18:23<Samu>won't even try
18:24<ST2>well, since I make my changes directly on cfg files and don't use ui's, I can't help you much :S
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18:31<Samu>on a different note, SimpleAI server reached 2051
18:31<Samu>only 3 AIs remain
18:33<ST2>Samu: have you tried changings with other AI's?
18:33<Samu>the other AIs appear to be doing it fine
18:33<ST2>so, it's an AI issue, not interface
18:33<Samu>because they only put the hiden parameters after all the others
18:34<ST2>read above
18:34<Samu>syntrans put a hidden parameter before a visible parameter
18:34<ST2>read above
18:34<Samu>what do I read? "have you tried changings with other AI's?"
18:35<ST2>[23:33:24] <Samu> the other AIs appear to be doing it fine
18:35<ST2>[23:33:37] <ST2> so, it's an AI issue, not interface
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18:35<Samu>it's not easy
18:35<ST2>you dnt say ^^
18:35<Samu>and i answered to that
18:36<Samu>the author of syntrans, have put 2 parameters on his ai
18:36<Samu>in order, parameter 1 is a hiden parameter, parameter 2 is a visible parameter
18:36<Samu>since he put the hidden parameter before a visible parameter, the iterator thinks the change is for the hidden one
18:37<Samu>the iterator isn't taking that into account
18:37<Samu>it just put the whole list of parameters
18:37<Samu>OnClick is doing it right
18:38<ST2>well, did that happen with any other AI?
18:38<Samu>its iterator is going thru only visible parameters
18:39<ST2>because I dnt see a reason any setting to be hidden
18:40<Samu>it's a console command
18:40<Samu>setting gui.ai_developer_tools true or false
18:40<ST2>oh, right
18:40<Samu>true will show them
18:40<Samu>false will hide them
18:40<ST2>like changing max spectators
18:42<Samu>the other AIs, i suspect, they're only putting the hidden parameters after all the visible ones, so the iterator won't bug here
18:42<Samu>didn't really check, but
18:42<ST2>it's all on infonut
18:42<Samu>seems to be the case
18:42<Samu>info.nut, yes
18:43<ST2>there you can see each settings properties
18:43<ST2>have you ever thought that info.nut fileds properties can be wrongly set?
18:43<Samu>yeah, that's what I thought at first
18:44<Samu>but then i enabled dev_tools and it started doing it fine
18:44<Samu>then i went to check ai_gui.cpp in visual studio and yeah, it is not caring if that parameter is set hidden or not
18:45<ST2>ttd cpp file in VS?!
18:45<ST2>are you crazy?
18:45<Samu>yes, it's what i've been using to edit
18:45<ST2>use it only to compile
18:46<ST2>not more
18:46<Samu>visual c++ express 2015 whatever bla bla
18:46<ST2>as I said, use it only to compile
18:46<ST2>nothing else
18:46<Samu>but why? I've been doing fine, except for a few annoying auto-formating
18:47<ST2>exactly those reasons
18:48<Samu>i already got used to them :/
18:48<Samu>there must be a way to disable some formatting
18:48<Samu>but i didn't bother to find out yet
18:48<ST2>same as I trust more on check info.nut file and define variables on cfg's manually
18:49<ST2>if you enter on GUI's work there... prepare for nightmares
18:50<ST2>well, info.nut are kinda easy to get working on ttd GUI
18:50<ST2>and I changed alot myself, due the lots of GS's we use on our servers
18:51<ST2>and if something is not working... trust me, info.nut has something wrong on it
18:51<Samu>can u check syntrans info.nut?
18:52<ST2>what's syntrans?
18:52<Samu>I suspected about 'flags = 0'
18:52<Samu>the AI that I used to reproduce this bug
18:53<ST2>ah, a AI
18:53<ST2>can you ask to the real synstrans dev?
18:54<Samu>0 is another name for AICONFIG_NONE
18:55<Samu>AddSetting({name = "log_level", description = "The amount of AI messages to display in the AI log. Higher=More messages", easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = CONFIG_INGAME | CONFIG_DEVELOPER });
18:56<ST2>easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2
18:56<Samu>it's a log
18:57<ST2>all 2
18:57<ST2>are there any real levels?!
18:57<Samu>it's a difficulty setting
18:57<Samu>and what it prints in the ai debug window
18:57<Samu>the amunt of what it prints, i guess it doesn't matter what difficulty
18:58<ST2>and what's the differences between: easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2
18:58<Samu>that's the difficulty preset for AIs
18:58<ST2>are ALL 2
18:58<ST2>what's the differences?!
18:58<Samu>grr :(
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18:59<Samu>there's easy, medium, hard and custom, but i guess custom was eliminated
18:59<ST2>yes, that I see
18:59<ST2>but values for easy, medium, hard and custom, are ALL 2
18:59<Samu>easy preset is to have the ai behave like a noob
18:59<Samu>hard preset is to have it behave like a master
19:00<ST2>noob is 2
19:00<Samu>it's the log_level
19:00<ST2>hard is 2
19:00<Samu>meh i give up lol
19:01<Samu>there's a text log that AIs print on the AI/Debug Window
19:01<ST2>somewhere in AI code, "log_level" is taken in account
19:01<ST2>but all difficulty levels are 2
19:01<ST2>so, there's no change at all
19:01<Samu>yes, it will print the same amount of information
19:01<Samu>regardless of
19:02<ST2>wich is another setting, right?
19:02<ST2>set like the above one?
19:02<Samu>AddSetting({name = "route_distance", description = "The distance of the vehicle routes built by SynTrans", easy_value = 1, medium_value = 1, hard_value = 1, custom_value = 1, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = 0});
19:02<Samu>this settings has flags = 0
19:02<ST2>easy_value = 1, medium_value = 1, hard_value = 1, custom_value = 1, min_value = 1
19:02<ST2>always 1
19:03<Samu>keks, blame the author
19:03<ST2>so, is that an interface issue?
19:03<Samu>no, that's what the author decided
19:03<ST2>or an author's thing?
19:03<Samu>AddLabels("route_distance", { _1 = "Short", _2 = "Medium", _3 = "Long" });
19:03<ST2>well, your bug report says there's an Interface bug
19:04<Samu>the bug is on OpenTTD's end
19:04<Samu>not on the AI
19:04<ST2>AddLabels("route_distance", { _1 = "Short", _2 = "Medium", _3 = "Long" });
19:04<ST2>all give !
19:05<ST2>and, as expected, the value don't change
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19:06<Samu>ScriptConfigItemList::const_iterator it = this->ai_config->GetConfigList()->begin();
19:06<ST2>check info.nut
19:06<Samu>it gets the whole list, it has 3 parameters, 1 is the start_date, the other 2 are given from info.nut
19:06<ST2>values for route_distance are ALWAYS 1
19:07<ST2>if set on GUI
19:07<Samu>when you change them on gui, they are supposed to be going from 1 to 3
19:07<ST2>if set on cfg files, you can reach min 1 and max 3
19:07<Samu>it changes them, but applies it to log_level instead
19:08<ST2>so, as I said, if happens in other AI's... it's an OpenTTD bug
19:09<ST2>if ONLY on this AI... what you think?
19:09<Samu>brb, let me get ai_gui.cpp for you
19:09<ST2>I dnt need ai_gui.cpp
19:10<ST2>as you said, it works well with other AI's
19:12<Samu>line 334, the iterator there deals with visible settings only
19:12<Samu>DrawWidget also deals with it properly
19:12<Samu>OnClick also
19:12<Samu>but then...
19:13<Samu>line 531 and line 542
19:13<ST2>Samu: why GUI should deal with unvisible settings?
19:13<Samu>the iterators there, forget about visible settings
19:13<Samu>erm, hidden settings*
19:13<ST2>question remains
19:13<Samu>because ai dev tools can be set to false or true
19:14<Samu>it won't display them in the AI Parameters window if it's false
19:14<ST2>so, that means you can handle them
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19:14<Samu>if i set them visible, I can change them
19:14<Samu>try both modes
19:15<Samu>setting gui.ai_developer_tools 0
19:15<Samu>setting gui.ai_developer_tools 1
19:15<ST2>Í only try what my knowledges allow
19:15<Samu>u'll notice a difference
19:15<ST2>and I change many of them... on cfg files
19:15<Samu>there are parameters that pop up/hide
19:16<ST2>if you mess with "setting gui.ai_developer_tools" it's because you have knowledges to handle with them
19:16<ST2>and what comes next
19:16<Samu>grr, let me show a screenshot
19:16<Samu>or 2 actualy, brb
19:16<ST2>dnt need
19:16<ST2>[00:16:10] <ST2> if you mess with "setting gui.ai_developer_tools" it's because you have knowledges to handle with them
19:16<ST2>[00:16:16] <ST2> and what comes next
19:16<ST2>[00:16:19] <ST2> correct?
19:17<ST2>note: I hate quote myself :S
19:19<Samu> - hidden parameter vs visible parameter
19:20<Samu>1 = visible, 0 = hidden
19:21<ST2>Samu: I deal enough with "AddCategory(..." , "AddSetting(..." ,and "AddLabels(..." on info.nut
19:21<Samu>ok check the flags of the first parameter
19:21<Samu>then check the iterator on line 542
19:22<Samu>it disregards if the list contains hidden parameters
19:22<ST2>hidden from beggining?
19:22<ST2>or changed later (console, for example)
19:22<Samu>the visible parameter which is number 3, becomes number 2 suddenly
19:23<ST2>[00:22:30] <ST2> hidden from beggining?
19:23<ST2>or changed later?
19:23<Samu>when u set the value to number 3, it changes the invisible parameter number 2 instead
19:23<ST2>damn fuck
19:23<ST2>I can't make simple questions
19:24<Samu>the iterator in ai_gui.cpp finds 3 parameters, and then just applies it based on the row where u clicked
19:24<ST2>because if you change on console, GUI won't get it - that's 101
19:24<ST2>and as I said
19:24<Samu>the 3rd parameter with is the route_distance
19:24<ST2>I made 1 question
19:24<ST2>was expecting an answer
19:25<Samu>it refreshes the config, there's an OnInvalidateData, it's "instant"
19:25<ST2>Samu: look above, I made a question
19:25<ST2>you're being ignored for that
19:26<ST2>and I'll start soon too
19:26<Samu>we better stop indeed, we're getting nowhere, I insist it's a bug in ai_gui.cpp, you insist it's syntrans info.nut
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19:28<ST2>I asked: [00:22:30] <ST2> hidden from beggining?
19:28<ST2>because changes can do the trick and really discover if there's a bug
19:29<Samu>i opened the parameters window first, then only after did I typed that into the console
19:30<ST2>Samu: please, don't ever call me to your problems - I already have too many servers to handle with
19:31<Samu>I don't really see the point in your question
19:31<ST2>[00:30:04] <ST2> Samu: please, don't ever call me to your problems - I already have too many servers to handle with <<-- you need a draw now?!
19:31<Samu>the window refreshes itself when i type that into the console, it's refreshed
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19:32<ST2>now I understand why you had a tt-forums account banned - I'm annoying but you, for sure, take the cake!!
19:39<Samu>i've read back, yes is the answer
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19:40<Samu> AddSetting({name = "log_level", description = "The amount of AI messages to display in the AI log. Higher=More messages", easy_value = 2, medium_value = 2, hard_value = 2, custom_value = 2, min_value = 1, max_value = 3, flags = CONFIG_INGAME | CONFIG_DEVELOPER });
19:41<Samu>'flags = (bla) | CONFIG_DEVELOPER' - this hides it
19:41<Samu>this setting is first before the other with flags = 0
19:42<Samu>if gui.ai_developer_tools is 0, this setting is hidden from the parameters window
19:42<Samu>if gui._ai_developer_tools is 1, it is shown
19:42<Samu>meh typo
19:42<Samu>but u get the point
19:43<Samu>the other Ais that use CONFIG_DEVELOPER have these settings past the other settings that don't use this flag
19:44<Samu>they will never trigger the iterator bug
19:45<Samu>it should iterate over all the visible settings to apply the value to the correct parameter
19:46<Samu>if settings 1 2 3 4 5 are visible, and 6 7 8 are hidden, the iterator goes 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8, but since i click on row 5, a visible setting, the iterator still applies the value correctly to setting 5
19:46<Samu>in the case of syntrans
19:46<Samu>settings 1 3 are visible, 2 is hidden
19:48<Samu>it takes the row which i click as the setting number that I'm chaning
19:48<Samu>and since 2 is hidden, the row that i click is 2
19:48<Samu>setting 2 is log_level, it applies the vale to it
19:49<Samu>I insist, the bug is in ai_gui.cpp, not on info.nut
19:50<Samu>setting 3 is drawn on row 2, because setting 2 is hidden, ... hmm yeah
19:51<Samu>the only thing that could be wrong on info.nut was flags = 0, but 0 is the same as saying CONFIG_NONE
19:52<Samu>so, it's fine, I see nothing wrong in there
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22:21<Eddi|zuHause>ST2: ever heard of an ignore list?
22:25<ST2>Eddi|zuHause: yes, but haven't done it... same as you on me ^^
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>ST2: you're not nearly as... problematic... as... him...
22:27<ST2>well, I know my knowleges limit, english limits, and so on... and I know, sometimes, I'm annoying as hell ^^
22:27<ST2>but his case, is quite simple, sadly :S
22:28<ST2>gladly.. I know when to stop xD
22:29<ST2>his issues, I had many (mostly with GS's) - and was all about how info.nut was built
22:30<ST2>I tried to pint him that
22:31<ST2>because, imo, that's not an OpenTTD probelm
22:31<ST2>well, I mostly use changes on cfg's... but GUI's too
22:32<ST2>Samu left before I show him this:
22:33<ST2>yeah, we use a bunch of a mix...
22:33<ST2>but since all set well, all works well
22:33<ST2>and that's only 1/5 th
22:34<ST2>ofc, that's GS's way
22:35<ST2>anyway, it's what I deal with ^^
22:37<ST2>I guess you never saw that GS's combination... as within screeshot ^^
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22:41<ST2>because I guess you never saw a single server GS with BusyBee and Aphids gamescript, as it's there
22:42<ST2>it's only a GS's merge
22:43<ST2>Eddi|zuHause: ever saw them together, on same GS?
22:43<Eddi|zuHause>i never followed GS development
22:43<ST2>oh ^^
22:44<ST2>well, our servers (for now) merge the GS's
22:45<ST2>and depending on a server setting, uses a specific one there
22:45<ST2>it's hard and ptobably not best way
22:46<ST2>but a singe server setting change and it's a totally different goal xD
22:47<ST2>note, can be run on SP too ^^
22:47<ST2>thgat's where I got that screenshot xD
22:47<ST2>our servers dnt have gui's ^^
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 16 00:00:04 2016