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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-17

---Logopened Fri Jun 17 00:00:05 2016
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01:29<Alkel_U3>supermop_: that seems to answer my question whether the profit shares are calculated properly
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01:49<Alkel_U3>supermop_: I hope you don't mind me hijacking that west part. I need tha trains to have a destination
02:35<Alkel_U3>supermop_: your company's end had an adverse effect on both Fargl's and my companies' profits. I even ran in red numbers until the flow of cargo changed
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03:48<Wolf01>moin
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06:39<Wolf01>shitty ISP
06:39<Wolf01>o/
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07:36<Samu>hi
07:37<Samu>just started the train competition for AIs
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09:30<supermop_>Alkel_U3: technically i don't get paid for any passengers travelling on my lines if their final delivery is made by your vehicle
09:31<supermop_>so effectively most of my services were running as charities
09:31<supermop_>i think only one of my trams made profit
09:32<Alkel_U3>supermop_: yeah, I hoped the patch would split the income when the cargo transfers to another company. Unfortunately it's not that case
09:33<supermop_>it would be fine if both networks were similar in size and topology
09:33<supermop_>as we'd each have a similar share of final deliveries
09:34<Alkel_U3>yeah, you lacked enough large cities
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09:34<supermop_>but that last mountain line did me in once i finally connected it to fargliders station
09:34<supermop_>because that was just moving passengers between your two networks
09:34<supermop_>when i had it still stopping short it was making a ton of money
09:35<supermop_>that and when i accidentally rasied some ocean land i lost all of my cash cushion that would have let me build out more money making routes in the east and industrial services to recover
09:36<supermop_>as the mountain line was intended to eventually serve many industrial routes
09:37<supermop_>the last few moments i tried starting a separate company to see if i could then buy out my failing one, but couldn't get cash fast enough before it went under
09:39<Alkel_U3>too bad I wasn't around, maybe I'd buy it :P
09:39<supermop_>should have left the server once i got the bankrupcy warnings as i knew was going to take about 1M and a year or so to recover, then you could have bought out or loaned the capital
09:39<Alkel_U3>well, I don't know about the infra sharing next time, seems pretty double edged
09:40<supermop_>was working alright for me until the end,
09:40<supermop_>i wasn't making a ton of money
09:40<supermop_>but at least solvent
09:41<Alkel_U3>I hoped I could at least reclaim the abandoned station names but apparently they were tied to the old company to prevent stealing?
09:41<supermop_>i don't play the game to make tonnes of money or build huge things, i play with the goals to make an interesting network, and to 'provide service' to as many of the 'citizens' of the map as possible
09:42<Alkel_U3>yeah, me too, generally
09:42<supermop_>so for me losing money and sharing infrastructure are realizations of those goals in a way
09:43<supermop_>i guess IS needs contracts or royalties or something
09:44<supermop_>like pay 1M over 5 years as part of agreement to move these x passengers
09:44<supermop_>you'd have to fake it by gifting money and guessing what the worth of a loss making service is to other players
09:46<Alkel_U3>there's just the fixed fee for using the infrastructure, but that's apparently completely inadequate
09:46<supermop_>well on our map we didn't share trackage
09:47<supermop_>only platforms at terminal stations
09:47<supermop_>i tried to get farglider to go in on a shared double track line via helan, but he prefered to bypass
09:48<Alkel_U3>I'd say it would make sense to split the cargo's trip to segments isolated to each company and have them paid separately
09:48<supermop_>well i don't think any of my freight was on shared infrastructure
09:49<Alkel_U3>he wasn't too happy about being presented with that without his input. Hell, people, communicate :P (I told him to sort it out...)
09:49<supermop_>Alkel_U3: then you have the issue that 3 players could conspired to send passengers on a round -the world trip to the next town over
09:50<supermop_>and each would get paid for a long trip
09:50<supermop_>even though the passengers only travelled a few tiles
09:50<Alkel_U3>I know, it's not bulletproof
09:50<Alkel_U3>but you can do that in singleplayer, too
09:51<Alkel_U3>just have the train go around three times
09:51<supermop_>although in real life if you travel from London to Paris via Shanghai, you almost always will pay more
09:51<supermop_>it is up to you to buy the cheaper direct ticket
09:51<Alkel_U3>I run some of my trains on Fargl's track
09:52<Alkel_U3>anyway, later. Leaving home, parties ahead
09:52<Alkel_U3>s/home/work/
09:52<supermop_>ha ok
09:53<supermop_>well i tried to explain how my track was making him more money and only costing me, but i guess everyone has different goals
09:53<supermop_>later
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10:07<@Alberth>hihi
10:08<Samu>hi
10:09<Samu>the convert utility of glx doesn't work for my patched openttd builds
10:10<Samu>:(
10:10<Samu>openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log 2>&1
10:11<Samu>it only dumps this into the log "dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version 1.6.1-RC1"
10:11<Samu>nothing else
10:12<@Alberth>2>&1 looks like a unix shell trick to me
10:12<@Alberth>or does windows do that too?
10:13<Samu>i don't know, that's how glx teached me
10:13<Samu>it works for openttd builds downloaded from openttd.org, but not when i build openttd with visual studio
10:16<@Alberth>don't know what the compile farm uses
10:30<Samu>https://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/redirection.mspx?mfr=true
10:30<Samu>what are handles?
10:30<Samu>openttd handles?
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10:33<Samu>3&>1 wrote this to log file "D:\OpenTTD\Core8>exit"
10:33<Samu>gonna try 4&>1 etc 9&>1
10:33*Wolf01 *facepalm*
10:35<Samu>?
10:35<Wolf01>nothing
10:35<Samu>how does it work'
10:35<Wolf01>wrong universe
10:42<Wolf01>boring migration ever... 32GB SD -> 128GB SD
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10:46<Wolf01>at least this time I checked the right format instead of copying everything and format it after :|
10:47<@Alberth>dd would probably work, at the cost of 96GB :p
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>Alkel_U3: you could make a company picking up a passenger pay the current transfer estimate to the company that last transported it, but that means the transfer estimate has now a gameplay effect, which worsens its inherent wrongness...
10:49<Wolf01>meh 1.5 hours to copy everything...
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>or you could eliminate transfer credits alltogether, and treat every delivery as final, but this opens up "back and forth" transporting abuse
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: 90% of working with computers is watching it do something automatically
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>... i used to have a patch eliminating transfer credits
10:50<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: i guess 'wrong' at least isn't ripe for abuse
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>but i can't look for it right now
10:51<supermop_>and any payment, even too little would be better than running a loss making railway as charity
10:51<Alkel_U3>yeah, I know. Thought about both way you described and don't like any of them
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: transfer estimate is usually too high
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: so the person running the last leg is screwed now
10:52<@Alberth>Wolf01: can't just continue to work? disk will copy also if you don't watch :)
10:52<supermop_>otherwise any company acting as common carrier will eventually collapse or be bought at discount by its beneficiaries
10:52<supermop_>Alberth: maybe he gets paid for those 1.5 hours
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: but instead of the "backbone" just running into its own running costs, the last leg can amount huge deficits
10:53<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: what if you were paid a royalty on the transfer credit - like between 10 and 60% of the estimate
10:53<supermop_>configurable
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: the estimate is already configurable in that way
10:54<Wolf01>also 80MB/s my ass
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: that figure is usually for "writing into the cache", which is complete nonsense
10:54<supermop_>so you are still encouraged to seek out your own profitable routes, but you can hopefully at least cover costs when carrying traffic for others
10:54<Alkel_U3>the estimate might still be very wrong. Sometimes the last vehicle in the chain making the final delivery will display loss
10:55<Alkel_U3>also I guess it gets more smudged with too many hops
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, the only "real" solution is to store the travel times and distances for each company separately, which hugely inflates storage for cargopackets
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>which is why nobody ever implemented that
10:56<Wolf01>even while reading, I'm copying over usb3 to SSD and it transfers to 4MB/s
10:57<Alkel_U3>I'd be willing to live with that, if it fit into, say 5 Mbps, but otherwise I can see how that would be a problem
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>Alkel_U3: bandwidth is not an issue, but memory usage
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>(and processing time)
10:58<Alkel_U3>oh
10:58<Alkel_U3>right, I got that wrong
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg
10:59<Samu>there's a difference on both openttd.exes :( 13,5 MB (14.243.328 bytes) vs 13,4 MB (14.075.904 bytes)
11:03<@Alberth>do computers have multiple USB controllers nowadays?
11:03<Alkel_U3>afaik yes
11:05<Alkel_U3>yes, my 2-3 year old board apparently has three
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11:06<@Alberth>I only use USB for keyboard and mouse, so nothing even remotely fast, but for multiple disks that should work
11:15<Samu>I still don't know how to build OpenTTD without getting that 'M' in the version
11:18<@Alberth>don't modify the source
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11:19<Samu>then it doesn't build
11:19<Samu>errors about missing files
11:19<Samu>unicode stuff
11:19<Samu>#include <unicode/coll.h>
11:20<Samu>complains on png.h
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11:23<Samu>dmusici.h, lzo.h, ft2build.h, unicode/uversion.h, lzma.h, lzo/lzo1x.h, zlib.h, unicode/coll.h
11:24<Samu>how do i make it so that visual studio doesn't complain about missing files and also doesn't put an 'M' into the version?
11:26<@Alberth>supply the missing files, I'd say
11:27<@Alberth>maybe you can disable unicode too, but that's a bit tricky with foreign languages
11:28<@Alberth>likely, you have to compile some libraries and add them to visual studio for openttd tofind
11:50<_johannes>Hey, I have the railroad network exporter finished, however, I'd like to bring in the json library I wrote as a library... is this OK, and are git submodules suggested?
11:51<_johannes>What I mean is, I have a file named json.h which is not OpenTTD specific, so I have it as a library on github... how do I use it in OpenTTD? with submodules?
11:57<@Alberth>as a library, probably
11:57<@Alberth>ie like pnglib
11:57<@Alberth>bunch of .h files, and a .so/.a/.dll file
11:58<@Alberth>other option is to add it as source code in a subdirectory, ie make it part of openttd
12:01<_johannes>Alberth: is pnglib distributed with OpenTTD?
12:03<@Alberth>I mentioned pnglib *before* mentioning "other option ... add source code"
12:05<Samu>i can't make it work. when I add stuff to the include, it changes a file
12:05<@Alberth>but no pnglib is not distributed with openttd, but there is stuff in ./configure to find/attach it
12:06<_johannes>Alberth: ok, I just wanted to make sure you mean that
12:06<Samu>projects/openttd_vs140.vcxproj - file changes, then openttd version must be detecting the change
12:07<Samu>and puts the 'M'
12:07<Samu>why
12:07<_johannes>Alberth: so the other option, e.g. making it part of openttd would be not to use submodules, but simply copy the library "as is" to OpenTTD, and whenever the library would change, I'd copy it over to OpenTTD again?
12:08<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pnouumjam - if i don't do these includes, OpenTTD can't build, I'm lost
12:09<@Alberth>_johannes: it becomes part of openttd in that case, you have to follow commit rules
12:09<@Alberth>ie provide a readable patch
12:10<@Alberth>but tbh I am not convinced we should have a json library of our own in openttd
12:10<_johannes>Alberth: yes, I agree
12:10<_johannes>which would leed to the first option
12:12<@Alberth>not sure, I'd like to have an established json implementation, that gets distributed as package with eg debian
12:13<@Alberth>and works for every platform that we have, in particular all the old stuff
12:13<@Alberth>if your library is the only one that works, we effectively locked openttd into your library
12:14<@Alberth>it could break if you decide to throw the code away, or make huge changes
12:14<_johannes>actually it's just a small header of ~300 loc :D
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12:16<@Alberth>even if it was just 1 line, I'd say this is what you get when you depend on external source not under ones control
12:16<@Alberth>ie a disadvantage of the first option
12:17<_johannes>ok then I'll go with option two :)
12:20<_johannes>in that case, the library should use the coding conventions, correct?
12:22<@Alberth>that's adding the code to openttd? yep, it must, even
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12:26<@Alberth>So glad I am not using visual studio :p
12:30<Samu>think i found a way
12:30<Samu>copy 'project' folders into a 'project2' folder
12:30<Samu>then open the solution in project2 instead
12:30<Samu>let's see if it builds without M
12:32<Wolf01>V453000, hype intensifies
12:32<Samu>OpenTTD r27601
12:33<Samu>yay! I did it
12:33<Samu>first time I build OpenTTD without M!
12:34<Samu>darn, it was rather simple after all, I just didn't think of it before
12:34<Samu>projects2/openttd_vs140.vcxproj is changed instead of the original projects/openttd_vs140.vcxproj
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12:35<Samu>thx Alberth for the help
12:35<@Alberth>I did? ok, yw :)
12:36<Samu>yes, "don't modify the source", the only modification was that file
12:36<Samu>now I know how to work around that
12:36<@Alberth>ah :)
12:38<Samu>there's another way but i think it's not recommended
12:38<Samu>hack the version?
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12:39<@Alberth>"not recommended" is an understatement there :)
12:39<@Alberth>it generally causes massive confusion and problems like desyncs
12:41<Samu>i kinda wanted to try my stuff on 1.6.1-RC1 though, someone who shall not be named teached me a way to hack the version, and i tried :(
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12:42<Wolf01>bye
12:42-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
12:42<@Alberth>that's not possible
12:43<@Alberth>if you modify anything to 1.6.1-rc1, it's not 1.6.1-rc1 any more
12:43<@Alberth>ie there is no such thing as "modified 1.6.1-rc1", it doesn't exist
12:46<Samu>ok i guess i was desperate for testers
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13:01<Samu>13,5 MB (14.243.840 bytes) vs 13,4 MB (14.066.176 bytes)
13:01<Samu>mine is still smaller
13:01<Samu>shouldn't it be equal?
13:08<Samu>the console stuff doesn't work
13:08<Samu>dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601
13:08<Samu>glx, maybe you can hhelp
13:09<Samu>your convert.exe tool doesn't work when i build r27601
13:09<Samu>or 1.6.1-RC1
13:10<Samu>only if i download it
13:10<Samu>from openttd.org
13:10<Samu>what's different?
13:10<+glx>weird because it only touches a bit in the PE header
13:10<+glx>and PE header is in all exe
13:11<Samu>it says gui detected, converting to console
13:11<Samu>then console detected, converting to gui if i open it again
13:12<+glx>then it works
13:12<Samu>but... it doesn't dump text into the file
13:12<Samu>openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log 2>&1
13:12<Samu>it only dumps a single line, and the rest is displayed in the console
13:13<+glx>the only diff between GUI and console is that it doesn't opent a console window in console mode
13:13<Samu>"dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601" is the only thing that goes into the .log
13:14<+glx>maybe debug level is too low
13:15<+glx>but convert.exe is not responsible
13:15<Samu>debuglevel script=9
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>didn't microsoft want to drop PE?
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13:20<Samu>gonna try without dpiawareness manifest thing
13:23<Samu>with dpi awareness - 13,4 MB (14.066.176 bytes) / without dpi awareness - 13,4 MB (14.065.664 bytes)
13:23<Samu>let's see if it changes anything
13:24<+glx>compile farm may use a different compiler than you
13:24<Samu>nope, didn't change a thing, still only dumping that single line
13:24<Samu>dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601
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13:25<+glx>add "-d9" to the command line
13:25<Samu>the rest of the text is being displayed in the console
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13:26<Samu>likethis? openttd.exe -d9
13:26<+glx>hmm if it's shown in the console then "2>&1" seems ignored
13:26<+glx>put it before >>
13:26<+glx>IIRC order matters for windows
13:26<Samu>it opens a 2nd window and puts the text in there, so there's 2 windowses
13:27<Samu>sec, let me post a screenshot
13:27<+glx>it should not open a window in console mode
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13:28<Samu>ah right, it was in gui mode
13:28<Samu>you're right, only 1 window, but the text goes to console, not to file
13:29<+glx>and if you move 2>&1 ?
13:29<Samu>move to where? I'm not sure what you mean
13:30<Samu>ah before >>, let me see
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13:31<Samu>openttd.exe -D -c D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.cfg 2>&1 >> D:\OpenTTD\Core8\openttdCore8.log like this?
13:31<+glx>yes
13:31<Samu>didn't seem to work, it closed the command prompt window
13:32<Samu>didn't launch server
13:33<Samu>windows is complaining that the .log file is open by command processor, i can't delete it
13:33<Samu>grr
13:33<Samu>oops, let me retry
13:34<Samu>nope, text is put into console window, the .log file now gets nothing at all
13:35<Samu>but the file is still created, it's just empty
13:37<Samu>sorry about when i said it closed the command prompt window, I had the server already running in the background and didn't notice
13:37<Samu>what is that -d9 switch?
13:37<+glx>anyway >>file.log 2>&1 should work
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13:37<+glx>-d9 is debug level 9
13:38<Samu>ok, gonna try
13:39<Samu>wow, the console is going crazy
13:39<Samu>going through a lot of text dump
13:40<Samu>looking for a lot of tar files, sprites and stuff
13:41<@Alberth>well, you asked for every little detail that openttd does :)
13:41<+glx>yes that's -d9 :)
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13:42<Samu>ah, it got into the part it's generating map, and now it's telling me this non-stop: dbg: [console] Executing cmdline: ''
13:42<Samu>it's doing that non-stop
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13:43<+glx>it outputs all commands too IIRC
13:43<Samu>screenshot is maybe better
13:44<Samu>http://imgur.com/UnMbpFj
13:44<Samu>i'm not typing anything in the console
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13:50<Samu>now i'm getting that mixed with YAPF stuff
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13:51<Samu>doesn't let me type any command at all
13:52<Samu>can only force close the server
13:53<Samu>let me try the version from openttd.org
13:53<Samu>brb
13:56<Samu>it dumped the whole stuff into the .log
13:56<Samu>but there is no executing cmdline: ''
13:57<Samu>looks fine
13:57<Samu>it works
13:57<Samu>too bad, I wanted to try my stuff
13:57<@Alberth>nice eh? Windows thinks it's more important to dump stuff to screen than to let you enter a command to quit
13:57<Samu>i got to build openttd.exe myself
13:59<Samu>eh? don't get confused Alberth
13:59<Samu>when i build here, it doesn't work, when i download from openttd.org, it works
14:01<Samu>nevermind, it's me who's confused
14:03<Samu>why is it doing the executing cmdline non-stop?
14:03<Samu>and it's not even executing anything
14:05<Samu>will test again, see if it writes more than just that single line
14:05<Samu>brb
14:13<Samu>it's not doing the executing cmdline this time, strange
14:13<Samu>what's wrong?
14:14<Samu>it let me type exit
14:23<Samu>this is strange, it didn't write anything at all
14:23<Samu>it's strnge, I was expecting at least a line
14:25<Samu>what is: ^C
14:26<@Alberth>at unix, it sends the application connected to the command window a request to stop
14:27<Samu>i closed the console window clicking the 'X' and it dumped just ^C into the .log
14:28<@Alberth>oh
14:28<@Alberth>weird
14:29<@Alberth>closing the console window may be a bad idea for a console application
14:29<@Alberth>it's like someone taking all windows and doors out of your house and replacing them by a wall
14:30<@Alberth>ie you rip out all methods to talk to the outside world, for the application
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14:38<@Alberth>hi hi
14:41<frosch123>hoi
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14:43<Eddi|zuHause>polloi
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14:47<Samu>gonna try 32 bit version
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14:51<Samu>dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27601
14:51<Samu>same thing
14:52<+glx>and with trunk it works ?
14:53<Samu>gonna try that now
14:55<Samu>downloaded trunk from here, as zip package, https://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk
14:55<Samu>it works, both 32-bit and 64-bit
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14:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27602 trunk/src/strings.cpp (2016-06-17 20:56:19 +0200 )
14:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6481]: Compilation with --disable-network. (Deranged)
14:56<Samu>if I build them, from the source, also downloaded there, it won't work
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15:33<Samu>doesn't work t.t
15:33<Samu>r27602 just tested
15:34<Samu>dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27602
15:34<Samu>rest goes to console
15:34<+glx>fail for me too with VS2015
15:35<+glx>mingw is ok
15:36<+glx>needs to rebuild with VS2012 to test
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15:59<+glx>works with VS2012
16:10<Samu>does that mean vs120?
16:10<Samu>oh
16:10<+glx>vs100
16:10<Samu>ok let me try vs100, never actually used it
16:11<+glx>but I think it's because MS implemented vsnprintf
16:11<+glx>before VS2015 we needed our own function
16:13<Samu>The build tools for Visual Studio 2010 (v100) cannot be found. To build using the Visual Studio 2015 (v140) build tools, either click the Project menu or right-click the solution, and then select "Upgrade Solution...". Install Visual Studio 2010 (v100) to build using the Visual Studio 2010 (v100) build tools.
16:13<Samu>guess that i can't
16:16<+glx>hmm no, can't be because vsnprintf
16:16<+glx>but somehow something is done differently with VS2015
16:22<+glx>ok maybe because r27481
16:29<frosch123>"CONOUT$" <- looks like basic :)
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16:30<frosch123>it's actually interesting that basic went for a postfix syntax to differ types
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16:30<frosch123>usually stuff uses prefixes
16:30<+glx>yeah, anyway other seems to have problems with redirections in VS2015
16:33<Samu>that means if i try r27480, it may work
16:33<Samu>?
16:33<+glx>no :)
16:33<Samu>:(
16:33-!-Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.163.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<+glx>or maybe it will output correctly to the file, but not on screen
16:35<Samu>will test, just updated to r27480
16:35<+glx>https://github.com/benvanik/xenia/issues/228 <-- here a comment says the redirection to a file from command line indeed works
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16:55<Samu>tried r27480, it dumps a lot of garbage to the .log file
16:55<Samu>and then crashes shortly after
16:56<Samu>a serious fault condition blabla
16:56<Samu>dbg: [net] Starting dedicated version r27480 first line
16:56<Samu>  . . Y@óœÿÃÑY@óœÿÃÑ®»hÅTÂÑ»[JÊTÂÑ @Q @Q "  O P E N G F ~ 1 . T A R o p e n g f x - 0 . 5 . 2 . t a r ¨FÝœÿÃѨFÝœÿÃÑ©»§RÂÑ©»§RÂÑJ   n o _ s o u n d . o b s x R¨ÝœÿÃÑR¨ÝœÿÃÑÙYçRÂÑÙYçRÂÑü™  
16:56<Samu>and etc for the 2nd line onwards
16:56<Samu>like that
16:57<+glx>yes VS2015 CRT changed things
16:58<+glx>and r27481 mostly fixed it
16:58<Samu>ah yes. vs140
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16:58<+glx>but the fix breaks the redirection to file
16:58<+glx>happens for many projects
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17:32<Samu>Wormnest:
17:32<Samu>i will try doing the average column
17:33<Samu>i think some AIs were being subsidized
17:33<Samu>terron
17:33<Samu>or cpu
17:33<Wormnest>How do you mean
17:33<Samu>simpleai too, but not sure if they were being subsidized at the moment
17:33<Samu>at 2051
17:34<Wormnest>Well that´s part of the game so that´s ok with me
17:34<Wormnest>At that time it probably doesn´t matter that much
17:35<Samu>i was thinking this formula: best income of last 2 years / total number of vehicles
17:36<Samu>there was another formula I'd like to do, related to road piece usage, to determine efficiency, but i'm not sure how to go about that
17:36<Samu>i expect nocab to be quite inneficient
17:37<Wormnest>2 years might work too
17:37-!-NoShlomo [~NoShlomo@90.74.151.136] has quit [Quit: NoShlomo]
17:37<Samu>and dicatorai to be very efficient, think it's dictator who removes roads
17:38<Wormnest>Well NoCAB goes for profits it doesn´t care about the amount of roads it uses
17:38<Wormnest>However i did make some pathfinding cost changes that should lower the amount a little in my version
17:39<Samu>gelignAIte should be super efficient
17:39<Samu>it has more vehicles than road pieces, :p
17:40<Samu>hmm i'm having a hard time to determine a formula for efficiency
17:40<Wormnest>Well it only builds a few rvs and then stops
17:41<Samu>it doesn't stop, it re-locates the station to the edge of the town it's working on
17:41<Samu>it does that a few times, don't know how many, but seems to reach a point where it doesn't do anymore
17:42<Wormnest>Still it doesn´t build more than a few vehicles
17:43<Wormnest>I think it´s wrongly listed on the wiki in the list of competetive ai´s since it´s not really
17:45<Wormnest>What is efficient. Earning the highest amount of money with the least costs
17:45<Wormnest>or a nice looking network
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17:54<Samu>the AI that surprised me the most was Trans
17:54<Samu>i really expected much more
17:55<Samu>it underperformed greatly from what I used to remember from it
17:55<Samu>That road accross the map... took him 90 years pathfinding
17:55<Samu>costed him the game
17:56<Samu>I don't understand why it did that
17:58<Wormnest>No idea. It sometimes doesn´t peform very well for a long time and then all at once starts rising
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18:01<Samu>90 years with 250k #ops
18:01<Samu>oh well
18:02<Samu>now i'm testing trains
18:02<Samu>wormai is gonna be tested as the last one, i'm doing it in abc order
18:04<Samu>maybe not the last one. if some ais crash due to taking long to save, i will test them again, at the end of those that can survive autosaves
18:06<Samu>choochoo is always faking crashes.. i kinda hate him lol
18:06<Wormnest>My fixed version of nocab should perform better than the original at leat I think so
18:06<Wormnest>but its not finished yet
18:07<Wormnest>I dont like that in ChooChoo either but what can you do lol
18:08<Samu>dictatorai doesn't build a train
18:09<Samu>denver & rio grande is surviving
18:10<Samu>his default values for bridge lenght is really bad
18:10<Samu>i reduced that to 20
18:10<Wormnest>The current version of Dictator has problems with trains, it often crashes when handling trains
18:10<Samu>it doesn't start anything, just picks the engine, then gives up
18:10<Samu>picks in the log
18:11<Samu>let me check
18:11<Samu>dbg: [script] [0] [I] Forcing build: We have 0 vehicle running ! dbg: [script] [0] [I] Hard times going on, unleashing routes dbg: [script] [0] [I] Analysing the task pool dbg: [script] [0] [E] cEngineLib: Invalid vehicleID or engineID : #7 NOAI error: ERR_NONE
18:12<Wormnest>Hm might be that Im using a changed version not sure.
18:12<Samu>NOAI error: ERR_NONE
18:12<Samu>that's all i see on his log everytime it tries to "unleash" routes
18:12<Samu>doesn't build any rail track or station, just nothing
18:21<Samu>nocab crashed of course, so i'm testing 7
18:21<Samu>AdmiralAI is beating everybody else
18:22<Samu>FastPTPAI had quite a start, leaving everybody else in the dust, but now... not really
18:23<Wormnest>DictatorAI has a forum message suggesting it has trains disabled probably because of bugs
18:26<Samu>most profitable train, for now, goes to AIAI
18:27<Samu>it's still 1990...
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20:26<Quinch>Hi folks. Quick question, what would currently be decent competitive AIs in a solo game?
20:30-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6DDED.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:59<Quinch>Also, for acceleration, what's better to have, power or TE?
21:01<sim-al2>Technically, they're mutually inclusive
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21:01<sim-al2>Maximizing power will be necessary if you want to maintain good acceleration though
21:06<sim-al2>I've heard that Admiral AI is very competitive, but I haven't tried out personally
21:14<Quinch>Gotcha.
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 18 00:00:08 2016