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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-06-20

---Logopened Mon Jun 20 00:00:20 2016
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00:28<tipsyTina>Random question : do any of y'all play with bots offline? If so, which ones?
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03:53<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, how?
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04:33<Wolf01>moin
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05:14<ShrewdSpirit>Hi. How can I build a train platform with 14 length or even longer? It says station too spread out but I've seen others do this but don't know how
05:16<argoneus>you need to change station spread in advanced settings
05:16<argoneus>@ ShrewdSpirit
05:17<ShrewdSpirit>Aha, thank you so much \o/
05:19<ShrewdSpirit>30 tiles will be a veeery long train xD
05:20<ShrewdSpirit>But does this setting affect performance or something?
05:22<Alkel_U3>it says in the station spread setting details that it does
05:23<Alkel_U3>although I personaly use 22 and don't think I've run into issues due to that
05:24<NGC3982>I have only encountered performance issues with station spread on >2048^2 maps with massive amounts of operative stations.
05:24<NGC3982>As long as you are playing on a moderately new computer, don't think too much about it.
05:25<ShrewdSpirit>Hmm, I see. So I wont worry about it cuz my map is not that huge ;) Thank you for the information
05:28<ShrewdSpirit>BTW do multiple train engines increase the power/speed of train?
05:29<ShrewdSpirit>Oh wait, it does :o
05:30<Taede>max speed is the lowest of max speeds of any engine (or wagon if wagon speed limits are enabled) in the train
05:30<Taede>wether or not it can reach this speed depends on how much power and weight the total train has
05:33<ShrewdSpirit>So more power the train has, it will have more speed (without any limitation)?
05:35<NGC3982>A train still has a max speed.
05:36<NGC3982>As in reality, power and weight dictate how fast it get's there.
05:36<Alkel_U3>Max speed of slowest engine applies, power of the engines adds up. If you have a weak engine pulling 30tile freight train uphill, it will likely not reach it's top speed. Adding more power to help áccelerate will get it closer to the top speed faster
05:36<Flygon>I've had to build 50-60 tile long trains
05:37<Flygon>I think the game caps @ 64.
05:37<Alkel_U3>also you want to keep your eye on max tractive effort, especially on hilly service
05:37<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/openttdbigboy48tiles.png
05:37<Alkel_U3>nice :-)
05:38<Alkel_U3>of course that bit about max T.E. applies only with realistic acceleration model, btw
05:38<ShrewdSpirit>Aha, so a train won't go more than its top speed but power helps reaching that speed faster. I get it :D Well, I make my maps extremely smooth, so I don't have that much hills to worry about ;)
05:39<ShrewdSpirit>Wow Flygon :O That's really long .-.
05:39<Flygon>I justified the Big Boy
05:39<Flygon>All because of the Iceland map and default industries being...
05:39<Flygon>derp
05:39<Flygon>The map had only one Oil Refinery
05:40<Alkel_U3>that was without freight weight multiplicator, I assume?
05:41<Flygon>I think it was at 2x?... I forgot
05:41<Flygon>The Big Boy is an utter MONSTER tho
05:41<Flygon>No other locomotive like it in the 2CC set
05:42<Flygon>That isn't Electric. But the electrics either lack the top speed or the tractive effort.
05:42<Alkel_U3>I used to play with 5×, now 3×. Especially back then with the 5×, that was a bit difficult :-)
05:42<Flygon>...BBs are bloody expensive, though
05:42*Flygon nod
05:42<Flygon>Yeah, anything over 3x makes the Steam Era, frankly
05:42<Flygon>Impossible
05:43<Alkel_U3>not really, you just have to really follow the terrain and avoid any inclines on most connections
05:44<Alkel_U3>and don't count on the trains being too fast when loaded :-)
05:48<ShrewdSpirit>How many seconds a month takes in game?
05:53<Flygon>Alkel_U3: Of course
05:53<Flygon>But gradients that'd be smooth af irl
05:53<Flygon>Can become prohibitive in OpenTTD
05:53<Flygon>Due to how sharp the distances between heights are
05:53<Flygon>Granted, this's an issue integral to how the OTTD engine works
05:54<Alkel_U3>yeah. Fortunately, it can be also set. I play with 3% nowadays, previously5 or 6%
05:54*Flygon nod
05:55<Alkel_U3>I like RRT series in this regard, but the gui didn't really allow any terraforming, except with an ocasional hack with bilding adjacent tracks which could as much as level a mountain
05:55<Alkel_U3>ShrewdSpirit: IIRC one day is approximately 2 sec
05:57<ShrewdSpirit>So it takes about 1 day to finish the game (starting from 1950) :o
05:57<Alkel_U3>yeah
05:58<Alkel_U3>but, finishing the game... I regard the game as finished when it's no longer interesting to me. Might be sooner or later :-)
05:59<Alkel_U3>the year 2050 is too arbitrary
05:59<Flygon>I finish the same point
05:59<Flygon>Usually by the 60s...
05:59<Flygon>Needs more competititon from other players
05:59<Flygon>And timepatch
05:59<Flygon>:U
05:59<Flygon>Time goes too faaaat
05:59<Flygon>faaaast
06:00<Alkel_U3>yeah, I have daylength on a server now
06:00<Flygon>I feel unsatisfied if I don't have all the branchlines built before suddenly Shinkansen :D
06:01<Alkel_U3>yeah, if you work on a megaproject you might miss out on a generation of vehicles :-)
06:04<Alkel_U3>Factorio in a week! \o/
06:04*NGC3982 looks into Factorio.
06:04<NGC3982>Oh, i know that one.
06:06<NGC3982>A web site offering a demo version in an on-site exe file.
06:06<NGC3982>Sadly, that's rare.
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07:44<Wolf01>Alkel_U3, hype intensifies more
07:44<stefino_cz>hey guys...is here anybody who can help me with nml?
07:46<Wolf01>no clue
07:46<Wolf01>maybe in the evening you'll find more people
07:47<stefino_cz>okey, I'll try it later :)
07:47<stefino_cz>thx
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07:55<Alkel_U3>I can't afford hype at that date, though. I'll be completely away from PC from next Thursday till 10th of July :-)
07:57<V453000>stefino_cz: just ask a question, don't ask "can someone help me" :)
07:57<stefino_cz>yes sir :D
07:59<stefino_cz> Is there any way how to put my 32bit extra zoom graphic into this trafficlights patch? 3D model was finished but I have no idea how to write a nml code . Original nfo seems quite siple - only number of sprites with dimensions, offsets and position of sprites. Any idea if it is possible or not? Thanks
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08:53<Samu>TracAI is struggling with train jams
08:53<Samu>he really tries
08:54<Samu>he detects jams, tries to act accordingly, but... it temporary fixes it, it's prone to happen again. His profit graph is up and down from time to time
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09:02<Flygon>Samu: You make it sound like he's Bipolar
09:03<Samu>he seems to be doing this: too much cargo at station? add more trains. trains without profit? sell.
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09:03<Samu>im still wondering if he really got a jam detection mechanism
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09:04<Samu>can't find a jam line in the log
09:04<Samu>only unprofitable trains
09:05<Samu>i just saw a train crash from NoCAB, now that's something I've never seen before, coming from an AI
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09:07<Flygon>What
09:07<Flygon>Seriously?
09:07<Samu>yes
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09:11<Samu>and again
09:11<Samu>ok i'm posting screenshot
09:11<Samu>http://imgur.com/8KnRY9m - top left
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09:22<Samu>I was more likely to see a crash from OTVI than NoCAB
09:22<Samu>expecting to see*
09:22<Samu>OTVI network is really terrible
09:23<ShrewdSpirit>It seems that my trains forget to load cargo and they leave the station with no cargo loaded. It takes 3 years to arrive at the same station :(
09:23<ShrewdSpirit>I've checked their schedule and they just skip loading cargo
09:24<Samu>TracAI network is actually clean, he just masses too many trains on his routes
09:24<Samu>from start to finish there's a train on every stop signal
09:25<Samu>and it's not really a network in the sense that everything is connected to everything
09:26<Samu>don't know the right word
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause>do you have cargodist enabled?
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>or are they maybe already full with stuff they cannot unload?
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09:55<supermop_>yo
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10:00<Samu>hi Wormnest
10:00<Wormnest>hi Samu
10:01<Samu>most servers are in 1990
10:01<Samu>NoCAB has been acting strange, he got train crashes
10:01<Samu>he still get that huge cpu bottleneck
10:01<Samu>from time to time it unstucks
10:02<Samu>but then the slowness comes back
10:02<Samu>nocab server is now delayed by 19 years
10:03<Wormnest>Well it´s not for nothing I´ve been trying to fix some problems in nocab :)
10:03<Samu>:) nice, i know, just wanted to share my observations since you're working on them
10:03<Samu>he's still acting weird with the wrong closures
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10:04<Samu>about the trains crashing, the log doesn't mention anythnig about it
10:04<Samu>seems like he doesn't care if they crashed
10:05<Samu>how did he make them crash however.. i dunno
10:05<Wormnest>My guess is that he was reusing existing rail for a new connection
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10:05<Wormnest>and then was adding some signals maybe at the wrong moment idk
10:07<Samu>there must be something wrong in how he sees industry closing
10:07<Wormnest>He indeed does not check vehicle crash events
10:07<Samu>sometimes it says null has closed
10:07<Samu>sometimes it says their name, and it did not really close
10:08<Wormnest>null is normal if it tried to write the name but the industry was already completely removed by openttd
10:09<Samu>everytime he says an industry has closed but it really didn't, he proceeds to removing the route
10:09<Samu>and this is what hogs CPU
10:10<Samu>until the trains are not removed, the server is horribly slow
10:10<Samu>once they're sold, it goes back to normal cpu usage
10:10<Wormnest>Well that´s why my version has added: if (!allVehiclesInDepot)
10:10<Wormnest> AIController.Sleep(10);
10:10<Samu>nice, :)
10:11<Wormnest>But needs more improvements. It should not wait there for all trains to arrive in depot
10:11<Wormnest>Instead it should check once in a while and in the meantime do other things
10:13<Samu>not sure if you've been looking at TracAI code
10:13<Samu>does he have jam detection mechanism of some sort?
10:13<Samu>he keeps adding trains like nothing on the same routes
10:14<Samu>it's way over the physical network capacity of that route
10:14<Samu>can't move
10:14<Wormnest>No i´m not famliar with its train code, just know it´s derived from trains.
10:14<Samu>ah, oki
10:14<Samu>well then it maybe has jam detection
10:15<Samu>he still manages to not crash anything, and sell some trains
10:15<Samu>but it's temporary fix, he then keeps adding back more trains, going back to the same problem
10:16<Wormnest>Probably no detection then he just sees trains with low profits and sells them
10:18<Samu>wormai seems to be doing great
10:18<Samu>trains also doing great
10:18<Samu>trAIns*
10:18<Samu>simpleAI also doing great, but there's some recurring stalls from time to time
10:19<Samu>wormai also has them, but it's not as common as simpleai
10:19<supermop_>hmm should not have built these airports so soon
10:20<Samu>and the strangest one, OtviAI, i really don't know what to say of him
10:20<Samu>bad networking
10:20<Wormnest>stalls might be because of pathfinding
10:20<Samu>trains wait too much at signals
10:21<Samu>weirdest network i've ever seen
10:21<Samu>it's sub-optimal
10:22<Samu>then there's trains with no orders, removed stations, with tracks staying behind
10:22<Samu>it's quite bad, but he's making a profit
10:24<Samu>otviai also has these weird stalls from time to time
10:24<Wormnest>nocab also leaves the tracks but removes stations
10:25<Samu>but otviai server isn't actually delayed by too much, only 1 year behind fastest server
10:25<Wormnest>It may be difficult to figure out what can be deleted because tracks can be reused by other connections
10:25<@peter1138>heh heh heh https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/4n2rp4/original_tt_ps1_1994_gameplay/d42hmwc
10:27<Samu>fastest server is SynTrans, but he only made 3 trains, seems to be doign nothing ever since
10:28<Wormnest>That´s all he over does
10:28<Wormnest>Makes 3 trains at the start and then never looks at them again I think
10:29<Samu>ah, that's the one that only uses them for early money
10:29<Samu>I see
10:29<Samu>Trans doesn't build any train
10:30<Samu>he's loan management, I'd say, it's good, we'll see if it reaches 2051 without bankrupting
10:30<Samu>his*
10:31<Samu>profits, trAIns leads indisputably
10:31<Samu>WormAI is 2nd, with half the profit
10:31<stefino_cz>Hey guys. Is there any way how to put my 32bit extra zoom graphic into this trafficlights patch? 3D model was finished but I have no idea how to write a nml code. Original nfo seems quite siple - only number of sprites with dimensions, offsets and position of sprites. Any idea if it is possible or not?
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10:32<Samu>ops
10:32<Samu>NoCAB is 3rd in profit, even with 19 years delay
10:33<Samu>SimpleAI is 4th, TracAI is 5th, OtviAI is 6th, SynTrans is 7th, Trans without trains is 8th
10:37<@Alberth>stefino_cz: continue to use original nfo?
10:37<@Alberth>or rather, adapt for 32bpp, I guess
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11:00<Samu>dbg: [script] [0] [I] INFO: Industry: Hedinghall Farm removed from the world! dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Hedinghall Farm to Ketston Food Processing Plant
11:00<Samu>he got that one right!
11:00<Samu>farm really is gone
11:01<Wormnest>nice :)
11:01<Samu>he's selling wheet trains, my massacring cpu usage, heh, at least I know what's going on
11:02<stefino_cz>Alberth: I have Idea to use original NFO but it is for 8bit sprites and in normal zoom...and I need to write code for 32bit and extra zoom...
11:03<@Alberth>yep, and nfo should allow that
11:03<@Alberth>ie you can't express anything in NML that's not in nfo
11:03<Samu>wheat*
11:04<Wormnest>I think I fixed the saving/loading for nocab.
11:04<Wormnest>Just started a 4k square map to see if it will stay within the limit if it nears 5000 trains
11:05<Samu>woah, awesome job!
11:05<Wormnest>Will probably take forever lol
11:06<Samu>i remember nocab couldn't start on 4kx4k map
11:06<Samu>the garbage collector thing reaches it's capacity and crashes openttd
11:06<Samu>he could start on 2kx4k
11:07<Wormnest>I already fixed that part earlier
11:07<Samu>oh, oki nice
11:08<stefino_cz>@Alberth: I'm a little bit lost :D I'm begginer in code writing . And if I understand...I have to edit nfo?
11:09<@Alberth>stefino_cz: your first remark was that nfo looked easier than nml
11:09<@Alberth>I don't understand either, so don't ask me :)
11:10<@Alberth>but if you want to change it to support 32bpp, you have to do that either in nfo or in nml
11:11<stefino_cz>no no, I wanna to say that NFO is almost a lot of numbers and other "unlogic"signs but in this NFO is only this
11:11<stefino_cz>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyzm6yfon
11:12<stefino_cz>so that it looks simple...only sprite's descrtiption
11:12<@Alberth>yep, looks like nfo :p
11:14<@Alberth>and you're correct, nfo is just numbers without structure
11:14<stefino_cz>yes :D and I need to write new nml what will encode the same grf but in 32bit with extra zoom
11:15<stefino_cz>cause I have no idea how to edit this nfo into correct form
11:19<@Alberth>ok, writing nml may or may not work, I don't know what nml adds by itself, and what the patch needs/requires
11:19<stefino_cz>if exista any process how to get this new graphic into the game. There is no way to encode new nml cause trfficlights are made by patch (quite high lvl for me)
11:20<stefino_cz>so it will be very hard or impossible ?
11:21<@Alberth>yes :p
11:21<@Alberth>really, no idea
11:21<@Alberth>in the end the solution is likely to be simple
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11:23<@Alberth>you may want to try checking out nfo, since it's just sprites as you say, it may be simple to find out
11:24<Samu>question, what is the advertisement to master server interval time?
11:25<Samu>how often does this occur?
11:25<Samu>i can calculate the time nocab stalls for, by counting the number of "advertising to master server" messages
11:25<stefino_cz>I think (logic) that I need to define each sprite only but have no idea which commad use for it (in nml)
11:25<stefino_cz>I'll try to find some more...but thx for information :)
11:26<Samu>i cound 8 "advertisings"
11:26<Samu>count*
11:28<@Alberth>stefino_cz: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Realsprites is the way to define a real sprite
11:30<Samu>i found it static const uint32 ADVERTISE_NORMAL_INTERVAL = 15 * 60 * 1000; ///< interval between advertising in ms (15 minutes)
11:33<Samu>15*8 = 120 minutes?
11:33<Samu>gee....
11:33<Samu>it's gonna take forever to reach 2051
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11:37<Samu>i got time, but damn, this is gonna take days to finish
11:46<stefino_cz>Alberth: I read about real sprites - you think that I need only that table?
11:46<@Alberth>I have truly no idea
11:47<@Alberth>a grfid seems another minimal thing that you need
11:47<@Alberth>but otherwise.... absolutely clueless
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11:47<@Alberth>but no harm in trying :)
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11:59<Samu>93 trains that go to a 2 platform station
11:59<Samu>TracAI :)
11:59<Samu>i just clicked on a train depot...
11:59<Samu>omg
12:01<Samu>it's worse than i thought
12:01<@Alberth>don't do that :p
12:01<stefino_cz>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdxbuai2y
12:01<stefino_cz>it makes grf but empty :D
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12:06<@Alberth>pseudo-smart, and sees you're not using the graphics, I think
12:07<stefino_cz>not using graphic? need to write graphic path into table?
12:08<stefino_cz>[(left_x, upper_y, width, height, )offset_x, offset_y(, flags)(, filename)(, mask)] - filename?
12:08<@Alberth>no, I mean you define graphics, but it's not attached to eg a vehicle, or an industry or so
12:09<@Alberth>ie not used -> can be removed safely
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12:17<Samu>monorail is out - http://imgur.com/UMAuUhK
12:19<@Alberth>stefino_cz: assuming that's the case, nml is going to be pain, unless you want to extend nml itself :p
12:19<@Alberth>so perhaps nfo is less complicated after all, it would be https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/RealSprites this page I think, but euhm, not sure at all
12:21<stefino_cz>okey, I'll try it :) thanks :)
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12:46<Samu>WormAI is catching up to trAIns, but it's probably temporary
12:46<Samu>trAIns is in the middle of railway to monorail upgrade
12:46<Samu>he really commits suicide while doing so
12:59<Samu>train crash for nocab
13:00<stefino_cz>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p27gploqd
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13:00<stefino_cz>error: insufficient meta-data while reading sprite 2
13:01<stefino_cz>any idea? what could be wrong?
13:02<@Alberth>the amount of meta data, clearly :p
13:02<Samu>Wormnest: does NoCAB remove block signals in code? or does he force bypass signal?
13:03<Samu>the trains that crashed were relatively recently built
13:03<Samu>about 6 months later they crash
13:03<@Alberth>stefino_cz: 32bpp real sprites takes 2 sprites ?
13:03<Samu>maybe more, about 9 months
13:04<stefino_cz>Alberth : XD and what the meta data are?
13:04<stefino_cz>2?
13:04<@Alberth>first number is the sprite numbers
13:04<@Alberth>*number
13:05<stefino_cz>yeah...sprite number...not number of sprites
13:05<@Alberth>so if you omit that, like lines 6+7, it's one 'sprite' for the grf (one instruction, as 'sprite' means 'instruction' in newgrf world)
13:06<Samu>hmm NoCAB has quite a network jam
13:06<Wormnest>Samu: I´ve never really looked at the signal placement of nocab but I´ve seen errors in where it places signals
13:07<@Alberth>-143-150 looks suspicious too, I don't think nfo can do computations
13:07<Wormnest>besdes that it only uses one way tracks
13:07<@Alberth>or at least not infix
13:07<Wormnest>*besides
13:07<@Alberth>you could try prefix :p
13:07<Samu>hmm version 499 i see block signals
13:07<stefino_cz>-143 -150 are offsets
13:08<@Alberth>missing space then?
13:08<@Alberth>line 7 has no space between them
13:09<stefino_cz>yeah...fixed...but problem still here
13:09<@Alberth>tried giving each line a sprite number?
13:09<Samu>query tile says: Railway track with block signals
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13:10<@Alberth>or at least for test, the first few
13:10<@Alberth>check if that helps
13:10<stefino_cz>ok, I'll try it
13:11<Wormnest>I didn´t say it didn´t use block signals :)
13:11<Samu>NoCAB is in a very difficult situation from what I see now
13:11<Samu>he got the right corner of the map completely jammed
13:13<Samu>i thought tracAI was bad, but nocab is bad in an order of magnitude much higer
13:16<Wormnest>Well at least it´s good at something then :p
13:17<Samu>seems like eveything is connected
13:18<stefino_cz>looks that is problem with png file
13:20<@Alberth>hmm, makes sense to call that "meta data"
13:21<@Alberth>8bpp png?
13:21<stefino_cz>8bpp are 8bpp and 32 are 32
13:22<@Alberth>ah, ok, some ms programs think they can sneakily change that
13:23<Wormnest>Current test version of nocab used 4% of allowed saving time for 49 train routes
13:24<Wormnest>Compared to an older development version used 91% and had to discard 32 of 54 routes
13:26<Samu>it is starting to have an impact in profits NoCAB profits are starting to do down
13:27<Wormnest>It may also have some old vehicles waiting in depot that it forgot about
13:27<Samu>let me look at his list
13:28<Samu>he got 3020 trains... hmm
13:30<Samu>more than half of his trains have negative profit
13:30<Samu>1442 trains have a profit
13:31<Samu>there are some old trains that are stuck in a jam, they're heading to depot but can't move
13:32<Samu>too many unprofitable trains in depot trying to get out
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13:33<Samu>can't get out because of jams
13:33<Samu>there's a few unsold trains indeed
13:33<Samu>stopped in depot
13:34<Wormnest>It´s because of too long bridges/tunnels sometimes and also reuse of tracks for several busy lines
13:34<Wormnest>I don´t think it checks if a line is too busy for more trains
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13:37<Samu>http://imgur.com/lnaQAeo right corner of nocab
13:42<stefino_cz>Alberth: nothink
13:42<Wormnest>Yea I´ve seen similar problems in my own tests too
13:43<Samu>TracAI at least, does several different networks
13:44<Samu>i think TracAI author could fix it easily
13:44<Samu>but NoCAB... ugh, hmmm i really don't know, he makes use of many different networks
13:45<Samu>mixes part of routes with each other
13:45<Samu>rail re-using
13:46<Samu>will be tough to fix it, i bet
13:48<Samu>TracAI uses one-way path-signals
13:48<Samu>NoCAB uses block signals, one way too
13:49<Samu>410 trains have positive profit, out of 2223 for TracAI, the ratio is way worse for TracAI
13:51<@Alberth>stefino_cz: :( no ideas what to try now, I am afraid, perhaps post at the forum?
13:54<stefino_cz>Alberth: I tried...but I¨m afraid that I have so little experiences to invent somethink like that :/ 3D and sprites generaly are ok for me but encoding is bad
13:54<stefino_cz>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=192627
13:55<stefino_cz>this is it :) but only picture for now and maybe forever
13:57<stefino_cz>Other graphics are quite easy cause there are tutorials or I only replacing base grf. But this trafficlights are different . It's patch and there is no other way than try to encode it...somehow >(
13:58<Samu>looking at trAIns, he got a jam, a weird one, cus i see no reason why the trains don't move
13:59<Samu>http://imgur.com/uJo723r - why don't the trains move?
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14:03<supermop_>yo
14:03<andythenorth>lo
14:05<Wolf01>andy... I did it... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00SDTS2CS/ref=s9_simh_gw_g21_i2_r?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=desktop-1&pf_rd_r=MZ7TD0HBYTMG9JT2M9TP&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=26de8ef0-2ad7-412c-8634-6cd03b7b73e2&pf_rd_i=desktop
14:05<Wolf01>and not once... I purchased 2 of them XD
14:06<Wormnest>949 cant go further because 360 is in the block it wants to go through and its not waiting at a path signal
14:06<Wormnest>and 360 wants to go to the block 949 is in
14:07<andythenorth>Wolf01: good price eh? :P
14:07<Wolf01>too good to miss the chance
14:08<Wolf01>I spared almost 80€
14:09<Samu>train 949 wants to go north actually
14:09<Samu>wants to turn left
14:09<Wolf01>even with the shipping fee it costs 30% less than here
14:09<Wormnest>doesn´t matter it´s part of the same block
14:10<Samu>they're blocking each other?
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14:10<Wolf01>quak
14:11<Samu>block signals are bad
14:11<Samu>it's official
14:11<Samu>:()
14:11<stefino_cz>Alberth: Is here someone else who can help me with this problem?
14:12<@Alberth>I am sure everybody that actually reads the channel knows by now what you're trying to do, so the only thing you can do is wait
14:13<frosch123>hoi
14:13<@Alberth>hola
14:13<stefino_cz>okey okey :) thank's
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14:47<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7846/truck_lengths_eh.png
14:47<andythenorth>I made livestock trucks a bit longer, because cows need space eh?
14:47<andythenorth>and the refrigerated truck, because they have a lot of insulation and stuff, so they tend to be max permitted length
14:48<andythenorth>or alternative rationale, just to add variety to graphics :P
14:51<frosch123>the grid is quite regular
14:51<frosch123>i would expect some more partitions
14:51<frosch123>it looks like a single big room
14:52<andythenorth>on the livestock trucks?
14:52<frosch123>also, cows are not transported on two floors
14:52<frosch123>so, either it carries chicken
14:52<frosch123>or it is quite tall :p
14:52<andythenorth>sheep!
14:56<andythenorth>giraffes!
14:57<andythenorth>regular grid = easy copy paste for all angles :P
14:57<andythenorth>I should break it up a bit?
14:58<frosch123>yeah, some of the veticals ones could be thicker
14:58<andythenorth>https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/381/20164438435_7bfcca013c_b.jpg
14:58<frosch123>or something
15:00<andythenorth>some this one is less uniform, just because of TTD lengths http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7847/livestock_truck.png
15:00<andythenorth>-some
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15:02<Wolf01>andythenorth http://bricknerd.com/home/trucking-in-spaaaace-19-2016 trucks!
15:09<andythenorth>Wolf01: pretty awesome
15:10<Wolf01>and how it placed the bricks... I can't even imagine how some pieces stay in place
15:10<V453000>._.
15:11<Wolf01>V, hype.
15:11<Wolf01>did you do your homework?
15:11<andythenorth>Wolf01: do you think it’s non-playable? o_O
15:11<andythenorth>swoosh it and bits fall off?
15:12<V453000>Wolf01: hype as fuck, yeah, graphics are done for 0.13 :)
15:12<Wolf01>if you go to the flickr page it says the trailer wheels barely roll
15:13<V453000>already lost like 40 hours to 0.13 :D
15:13<V453000>well I found like 10 bugs so it isn't lost :)
15:14<Wolf01>did you made the UB more likely to understand they could be abused to block a lane?
15:14<V453000>no changes there
15:15<V453000>I understand your issue but it is not priority, at least definitely not right now
15:15<Wolf01>and do you plan to add sidings to the "floating" belts? XD
15:16<V453000>belts might get an overhaul at some point, but probably not for 0.14
15:19<Wolf01>https://www.humblebundle.com/neo-geo-encore mmmh
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16:03<Samu>Wormnest_: dbg: [script] [0] [I] INFO: Industry: Tonfield Printing Works removed from the world!
16:03<Samu>it's actually the opposite, it was born
16:04<Samu>New Printing works under construction near Tonfield! on the newspaper
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16:09<Samu>some Printing Works was removed, but it was not Tonfields
16:09<Samu>he's demolishing the connection dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Flinfingford Forest to Tonfield Printing Works
16:11<Samu>he's doing the right thing, but the industry is not Tonfield Printing Works. The trains he's removing are from that forest, yes, and go to a place near Little Chudingville, which no longer accepts wood, that's where it must have been the missing Printing Works
16:13<Samu>There's a town named Tanfield and another named Tonfield
16:14<Samu>Tanfield is closer to the place the missing Printing Works is. Tonfield, is way... far distant from that connection
16:14<Samu>either way... there is a bug somewhere with NoCAB detecting the names of industries
16:15<Samu>at least on 2.1.3, don't know if your version has the same problem
16:17<Samu>still, given the location of Tanfield and Little Chudingville, that printing works wouldn't be Tanfields' anyway, but Little Chudingville
16:19<Samu>trying to see if there's a trend in my findings, but apparently not
16:19<Samu>oil refinery, then food processing plant, then printing works... hmmm
16:19<Samu>affects non-primary industries at least
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16:21<Samu>there was a farm that closed and he removed the connection, so... i guess there's really no relation
16:22<Samu>tough to understand why this happens
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16:37<Samu>most of the trains on the right corner of the map are being told to enter depots
16:37<Samu>but they're all stuck in jams
16:38<Samu>I see that block signals are part of the problem
16:39<Samu>not sure if Path Signals would help
16:40<Samu>that's way too many trains
16:40<Samu>i dunno, something you may experiment with, Wormnest_ ?
16:42<Wormnest_>Not sure if I wanna bother with that Samu. I already made some changes that may help a little
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16:42<Wormnest_>About the open/close problem: in WorldEventManager it looks like the right functions are called for each
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16:55<Wormnest_>Now that I think of it the wrong industry name may be because it may take a long time before nocab handles the close event
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16:56<Wormnest_>In the meantime a new industry may have been created that gets assigned the same id as what the old industry that closed was using
17:00<Samu>:)
17:01<Samu>you're on to something, me I'm still trying to find clues
17:03<Samu>i think nocab got stuck "forever" now
17:03<Samu>he's attempting to demolish a connection where trains are stuck
17:03<Samu>and the server is slow... year 1977
17:04<Samu>if it stays this slow till 2051... then... maybe next week or so it finishes
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17:05<Samu>i don't know if i have the patience
17:10<Wormnest_>well trains are nocab´s weakest part I think. Even in my fork trains still need more fixing
17:12<Wormnest_>In my game started this afternoon in 1950 its now 1976
17:12<Wormnest_>That´s with my fixed nocab and an older version with less fixes
17:14<Samu>:|
17:15<Samu>i started all these servers at the same time
17:15<Wormnest_>Ofcourse I´m not using a server just singleplayer
17:16<Wormnest_>but it is on a 4kx4k map
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17:17<Samu>current year: Syntrans 2021, trAIns 2020, WormAI 2019, TracAI 2018, OtviAI 2018, Trans 2016, SimpleAI 2011, NoCAB 1977
17:17<Samu>special note, Trans got nothing
17:18<Samu>and yet his servers gets delayed
17:19<Wormnest_>Must be trying to think how to get out of that situation lol
17:22<Samu>there are 7 human companies on OtviAI server
17:23<Samu>NoCAB is password protected so that it doesn't make any save
17:23<Samu>there's 1 human company on SimpleAI server, and 1 on Trans server
17:24<Samu>the others have no companies
17:24<Samu>human*
17:26<Samu>total CPU usage of these servers is about 68%, i saw it peaking at 85% some few times, there's still headroom
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17:44<Samu>aww TracAI crashed
17:45<Samu>server 4
17:46<Samu>crashed 75 minutes ago
17:46<Samu>75-90
17:47<Samu>checking if anyone else crashed
17:48<Samu>SimpleAI crashed, too long to save
17:49<Wormnest_>uhoh
17:49<Samu>crashed 60-75 minutes ago
17:49<Samu>the others are running, must check syntrans yet
17:51<Samu>syntrans still running
17:51<Samu>ok, just these 2
17:51<Samu>SimpleAI, will restart without autosaving and password protected
17:52<Samu>TracAI... not gonna restart, it's an error in the script
17:55<Samu>1st Dec 2009 seems to be the last time SimpleAI was alive
17:55<Samu>let me check
17:56<Samu>correct
17:57<Samu>1st Jan 2010 save doesn't have saved data
17:57<Wormnest_>I´ve never seen SimpleAI crash but I usually have a lot lower vehicle limits
17:58<Samu>TracAI was last alive on 1st Apr 2015
17:58<Samu>1st May 2015 it was already crashed
17:59<Samu>ok, sending these saves
17:59<Samu>WormAI is still going
18:00<Wormnest_>I hope it doesn´t take too long saving, train handling is based on SimpleAI
18:00<Samu>the log says he's managing 864 connections
18:01<Samu>WormAI got 1957 trains atm
18:02<Wormnest_>Thats not too bad
18:06<Samu>SimpleAI crashed with 1856 trains, but i don't know how many connections he has
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18:13<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=44809&p=1171500#p1171500
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18:26<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1171501#p1171501 - TracAI
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19:25<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 21 00:00:22 2016