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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-07-14

---Logopened Thu Jul 14 00:00:56 2016
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09:16<@Alberth>hi hi
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09:58<@Alberth>hi hi
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11:52<Wolf01> oh god
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>but that doesn't read like it's able to actually read in old cartriges
11:56<Wolf01>I could live without it, I don't have old cartridges, never owned a NES
11:57<Wolf01>but a cartridges slot would have been a good move
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14:12<_johannes>I'm still looking for testers: , anyone an idea how to attract more testers?
14:14<@Alberth>"linux" probably means nobody
14:15<@Alberth>but you could convert some games from the "saved games and screenshots" threads
14:16<@Alberth>not sure if posting the result there too is a good idea, perhaps ask the "owner" of the thread first :)
14:17<@Alberth>ie they may get upset if you disturb their pages of stories
14:18<_johannes>does the "Screenshots" subforum regularly contain saved games, or just images?
14:18<@Alberth>some people do post save games, not everybody though
14:18<@Alberth>you could also make a thread for your posts :)
14:19<@Alberth>although it may be a bit stretching the "screenshot" concept
14:20<@Alberth>lots of people play patchpack though, which makes your patch or linux version useless
14:20<_johannes>what is patchpack?
14:21<@Alberth>openttd + loads of random patches
14:21<_johannes>a binary distribution?
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14:22<_johannes>ah I get the concept...
14:23<_johannes>well then I guess the best is if I test a few of the uploaded maps, and if it works, start a merge request to the master?
14:23<@Alberth>those are the current active patchpacks, I think
14:24<@Alberth>your patch may work with them, perhaps, as you don't touch game code, which is where most patches are
14:25<@Alberth>but imho the screenshot forum is you biggest client base
14:26<_johannes>ok, so I could make a thread where I post the resulting pdfs, considering them as "screenshots" ?
14:26<@Alberth>make a png instead :)
14:26<@Alberth>not sure what graphviz supports exactly
14:27<@Alberth>pdfs need pdf-readers and stuff
14:28<_johannes>yes, I think png should work
14:28<_johannes>any idea about where the largest maps are?
14:28<@Alberth>I think there even is a thread with such pictures
14:28<@Alberth>handmade, of course
14:29<@Alberth>savegames forum? :)
14:30<_johannes>yes, I mean, which of the hundreds of threads contain the largest maps? :D
14:30<@Alberth>don't think large maps are typically very interesting :)
14:30<@Alberth>don't know, I download the ones from Baldy Boss every now and then, and that's more than enough already :)
14:31*V453000 is designing wagons
14:31<_johannes>"Loong Island 2048x1024" that sounds good :D
14:32<@Alberth>just ask for people to point you to files?
14:32<V453000>has 17 types so far
14:32<@Alberth>ha, 1/2 the map is sea? :)
14:32<@Alberth>dedicated wagon for each type of cargo, V ?
14:33<V453000>not exactly, there are variants for each cargo
14:33<V453000>so for example coal can have 6 different wagons, rather randomized
14:33<V453000>just to make trains look nice
14:33<V453000>uniform wagons are boring
14:33<V453000>but of course for example copper ore wagons will be the same, just recoloured, but again in 6 variants
14:34<V453000>which is nice
14:34<@Alberth>it is indeed
14:35<V453000>and it is the best way to do it, if you use recolour, too
14:35<V453000>cause you only have 6 sets of sprites in grf filezise
14:35<V453000>rest is done by code
14:36<V453000>and I am even hoping to achieve some nice compatibility with original TTD graphics, by having similar palette colours
14:36<V453000>but let's see about that, I don't rely on that much
14:38<V453000>but I believe it can help
14:38<@Alberth>ha :)
14:38<MonkeyDrone>hello people :D
14:39<V453000>I even want to do some basic animations with colour mask recolouring
14:39<V453000>that might get majorly insane
14:39<MonkeyDrone>was just stalking your work V453000 :P
14:39<@Alberth>most people judge "32bpp" by the colours they see, rather than by the the underlying technology :)
14:39<MonkeyDrone>glad to see love is still in the air, hehe
14:39<V453000>hi MonkeyDrone , I didn't really publish anything openttd related in a long while :P
14:39<MonkeyDrone>have you moved to Prague yet?
14:39<V453000>yeah, since April
14:39<MonkeyDrone>all settled in then?
14:39<V453000>Alberth: what do you mean, that using 8bpp recolours = The Community Hate?
14:40<V453000>MonkeyDrone: pretty much :) in fact this week I am on vacation at the countryside which leaves me with no factorio but all computer-time goes into new train set for openttd :)
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14:41<MonkeyDrone>V453000, ooooo, why not go out and see the country side? :P
14:42<V453000>that's what I do during non-computer-time :P
14:42<MonkeyDrone>ah ok :P well as long as you ain't over-working yourself :P
14:43<@Alberth>V: I suspect that indeed; it looks like 8bpp -> it is 8bpp. However, maybe they judge on size of the pixels rather than colours
14:43<V453000>also fuck the nature
14:44<V453000>I think only like 1% of people understands that 32bpp means colours, not extra zoom Alberth
14:44<V453000>so if I have extra zoom they will still call it 8bpp
14:44<MonkeyDrone>and yes i agree nature can be fucked
14:44<V453000>also, 32bpp recoloured by 8bpp mask still looks like 32bpp due to the shades, even though the hue looks 8bpp
14:44<MonkeyDrone>but when you live in the desert and see sand 24/7
14:45<MonkeyDrone>you do have a small longing to see green xD
14:45<@Alberth>not sure, detailed extra zoom and real 8bpp is rare
14:45<V453000>slugs have 8bpp recolour masks :P
14:50<frosch123>V453000: you should have given the wagons an odd length :p
14:50<V453000>why is that? :)
14:50<frosch123>now they have a distance of 7 tiles, but you can only position trainstops in distances of two
14:51<frosch123>so i cannot add an engine to the train in the front without shifting all the loading bays :p
14:51<V453000>ah you mean factorio
14:51<V453000>yeah I noticed that as well frosch123
14:52<V453000>it isn't my decision :P but yeah, it's done now
14:52<V453000>I personally would allow train stops to be built anywhere instead
14:52<V453000>I will suggest it now
14:53<frosch123>did you think i play ottd? :p
14:53<MonkeyDrone>well you are in openttd channel :P
14:53<frosch123>MonkeyDrone: exactly, the place where you talk abuot anything but ottd
14:54<MonkeyDrone>frosch123, don't you distract V453000 from his work on Openttd! I will go Liam neeson on your butt!
14:55<V453000>I just created a ticket and I am back to wagons, don't you worry :P
14:55<frosch123>MonkeyDrone: hmm, doesn't look like i have seen any of those movies
14:56<MonkeyDrone>Taken, you should, entertaining definitely
14:56<MonkeyDrone>what's happening with BRIX? :D
14:56<frosch123>ah wait, i only looked ni the novice actor action till 89
15:00<V453000>BRIX is waiting, I can't do that at the countryside as just opening the max scene takes like 666GB of ram
15:00<V453000>the plan is to release BRIX and the new train set at the same time eventually
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15:03<MonkeyDrone>sweeet, i shall wait as long as it takes :P
15:03<V453000>although they won't be exactly compatible
15:03<andythenorth>you are not compatible V453000
15:03<V453000>BRIX has completely different graphical style from PART
15:03<V453000>but fuctionally, sure
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15:06<V453000>sup andythenorth
15:07<V453000>I want to do animations for 32bpp sprites with 8bpp masks using just code
15:07<V453000>I don't want to imagine how horribly will I fail
15:07<V453000>I imagine something similarly shitty as drawing water 8bpp water tiles
15:07<fjb>Quak frosch123
15:09<V453000>fun thing: I am no more using flatbed-hopper-tanker dividing, which makes it so much easier to draw unique, fitting wagons for each cargo
15:10<V453000>I just have one ultimate wagon which si able to refit to anything, and sprites just nicely adapt
15:10<V453000>so all kinds of shit like boxcars, car carriers, ... make sense without having to put them into one of the 3 classes
15:12<V453000>honestly this system of NUTS is one of the less bright ideas
15:12<frosch123>maybe the wagons should have alternating graphics with shredders and 3d printers
15:13<frosch123>or maybe the industries should do that :p
15:15<V453000>why 3d printers though
15:15<V453000>like industry producing shit?
15:16<andythenorth>V453000: why not sack off the engines as well?
15:16<andythenorth>just have universal, single-unit vehicles?
15:16<andythenorth>one-piece flow
15:16<V453000>what do you mean?
15:17<andythenorth>just one type of vehicle: engine with cargo capacity
15:17<andythenorth>I am serious
15:17<andythenorth>always 8/8 long
15:17<V453000>the point isn't making trains as retardedly simple as RVs :P
15:17<V453000>point is giving options and variety
15:18<andythenorth>one *type* not one model :)
15:18<V453000>BUT, I can spoil that PART does only have 10 vehicles in 1 vehicle class, so all 10 of them are just upgrades of another over time
15:18<frosch123>andythenorth: there is the czech train set
15:18<andythenorth>you could still have different classes
15:18<frosch123>"csd" or something
15:18<V453000>csd is majorly dogshet
15:18<frosch123>it does all the realism shit like only real consists
15:19<frosch123>but instead of a puzzle game, all vehicles are articulated engines with all the wagons in one composition
15:19<andythenorth>nice idea
15:20<V453000>I didn't know it took shit that far frosch123 :D must be some newer version
15:20<V453000>but that's fucking terrible :D
15:20<frosch123>nah, it's from 2008 or so
15:20<frosch123>i used it to test articulated vehicles in 0.6, because it was so weird
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15:26<V453000>I don't remember seeing that
15:26<V453000>are you sure it is csd bullshit?
15:27<MonkeyDrone>how do i get on_server_connect.scr to execute on a dedicated server? do i need to enable something in the openttd.cfg file?
15:29<andythenorth>$someone should draw some cargos for Road Hog
15:31<V453000>I vote andythenorth does i
15:32<andythenorth>this is not a referendum
15:32<andythenorth>the winner is the one who sends me cargos
15:33<fjb>Referendums may have an unexpected out coming.
15:34<andythenorth>I am pretty good at predicting them so far
15:34<andythenorth>I am 100% correct so far
15:38<frosch123> <- maybe i misremembered the amount
15:38<frosch123>but those 3 things are single units
15:39<frosch123>i get the dmus
15:39<frosch123>but i have no idea where to attach that 2nd-class-double-deck-coach(local traffic) to
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, the double decker wagons did come in sets of 2 or 4
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>i probably put them in CETS this way as well
15:42<V453000>ah this bullshit
15:43<V453000>yeah I never used the pax wagons because they were WTF lengths
15:43<V453000>Eddi|zuHause still believes CETS will ever be drawn?
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>not really thinking about it...
15:44*andythenorth believes in Santa Claus
15:45*andythenorth believes in making another ship set
15:45<andythenorth>3rd time’s the charm?
15:46<V453000>andythenorth: ships are just shit in openttd and there isn't much to fix that, sorry :P
15:46<andythenorth>nice pictures
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15:49<Wolf01>I'm a bit bored :(
15:50<andythenorth>code something? o_O
15:50<Wolf01>and I'll be alone with my poor blind cat for 2 weeks
15:50<Alkel_U3>oh, I remember the discussion on the CSD set wagon sizes on Tycoonez - I think they were upset that George's Long Vehicle set's buses dwarfed the trains :-)
15:51<Wolf01>I would like to code something, but all what comes to my mind is too long or too much for a single person
15:51<Wolf01>at least for a single person like me, if I was Notch maybe it would have been easy
15:52<Alkel_U3>Bored? Play Dwarf Fortress.
15:52<Wolf01>no, I'll commit suicide
15:52<Alkel_U3>close enough
15:53<Wolf01>I'm waiting for the end of the season on diablo 3, just to tidy up the stash
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15:53<Wolf01>for the lego porsche I must wait 'til august
15:54<Wolf01>for the factorio rocket silo I must wait the research and the construction
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>i want to make peace with portugal and spain but i have shitty warscore despite occupying the main land
15:55<Wolf01>did you try to send some of you daughters for them to marry?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>no, i already have 30-ish royal marriages among my vassals
16:00<Wolf01>ehe, I know the struggle, I lost count of bastards while playing game of thrones legacy
16:00<andythenorth>Wolf01: code NotRoadTypes
16:00<andythenorth>easy :P
16:01<andythenorth>I would start, but I have NFI how to use hg patch queues :(
16:02<Wolf01>I use svn, one working copy per patch
16:03<andythenorth>by choice, I’d just git repo somewhere
16:03<andythenorth>bitbucket or github
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16:05<Wolf01>I just need a kickstart, maybe if I'll get something working in the first 10 minutes I won't lose interest
16:05<@Alberth>download openttd, compile, run, it works ! :)
16:06<andythenorth> :P
16:08<Wolf01>nice docs, I should've done the same with daylength
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16:09<andythenorth>hardest part of roadtypes is spec
16:10<andythenorth>and patching 78 calls to RoadTypes is just boring
16:10<andythenorth>the drawing code was quite interesting to patch
16:10<andythenorth>I learnt stuff :P
16:11<andythenorth>it’s quite nice to work through all the cases, like removing one type from a tile, without breaking things
16:11<andythenorth>and learning how catenary is handled by rails
16:12<Wolf01>I remember when I patched all those things for transparencies
16:13<supermop>sudden torrential rain
16:14<supermop>still no shirt to wear to shinto shrine
16:14<supermop>how are trucks today andy?
16:14<andythenorth>needing cargo :)
16:14<andythenorth>otherwise nearly good
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16:15<Wolf01>ok, now I must find a way to patch the code without doing it by hand
16:15<Wolf01>just to see what you achieved so far
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>"patch -p1 -i file.patch"?
16:16<Wolf01>that seem to be a git patch
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>hence -p1
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>for svn patches use -p0
16:17<andythenorth>iirc, I hard-coded tram with and without catenary
16:17<andythenorth>using a flag
16:18<andythenorth>which let me find all the places that NotRoadTypes needs to touch :)
16:19<Wolf01>wow, it worked flawlessly
16:20<andythenorth>if you try hard, you can trigger asserts in game I think :D
16:21<Wolf01>lots of errors
16:22<Wolf01>I suddenly forgot how to write c++
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16:26<Eddi|zuHause>also i suck at this game. my vassal Perm has a much bigger name than i do. (and that's the only metric that counts, apparently :p)
16:26<andythenorth>Wolf01: I never learnt how to write c++
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16:27<Wolf01>I used too much c# lately
16:28<V453000>I have no clue how will I render this
16:28<V453000>in total it is 30k sprites, but each of the sprites has a lik 7 different parts that need to be rendered separately
16:29<V453000>I will probably easily get over 200 000 separate images
16:29<V453000>not used in the grf, but in the workflow
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>if you automate it, does it matter whether it's 2000 or 200000?
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16:32<Wolf01>mmmh, this could be a good exercise, fixing 1962 errors
16:32<Wolf01>mainly "int could not be used as RoadType"
16:33<andythenorth>clang doesn’t seem to care about those
16:33<andythenorth>(compiles for me)
16:33<Wolf01>vs is a bit picky on types :P
16:34<Wolf01>RoadTypes rts = GetRoadTypes(tile) & ComplementRoadTypes(RoadTypeToRoadTypes(rt)); <- doesn't like these
16:34<V453000>it depends how many types there are Eddi|zuHause
16:34<V453000>ie, if I render a sequence of 200000, it is easy
16:34<Wolf01>need to explicitly cast them
16:34<V453000>but if I need to render 8 different rotations with 7 different masks with 50 different cargoes with 10 different variations, it gets trickier
16:35<Wolf01>or I could override the & operator
16:35<andythenorth>V453000: it’s just a list :)
16:35<andythenorth>a list of lists
16:35<V453000>and since blender is so awesome that it doesn't really support the most important rendering functions for batch rendering via command line, automating it is that much harder
16:35<andythenorth>a list of lists of lists
16:35<V453000>yeah kind of andythenorth
16:36*andythenorth wonders whether to ship Road Hog beta again
16:37<Hiddenfunstuff>I am god of hellfire!
16:38<Wolf01>uhuh, this looks bad, ROAD_X = ROAD_SW | ROAD_NE <- the espression must have a constant value
16:38<andythenorth>Wolf01: spiders in the existing code :D
16:43<Wolf01>static inline bool HasRoadType(rt) { <- pfffffffff
16:43<Wolf01>fixed 11 errors so far
16:44<Wolf01>with 1 codechange
16:44<andythenorth>we need a git repo :P
16:44<andythenorth>Wolf01: fixed the errors with my test patch applied, or without? o_O
16:44<andythenorth>the actual patch is junk :)
16:44<andythenorth>I don’t want you to lose your fixes :)
16:45<Wolf01>I'll make a new patch ;)
16:47<Wolf01>how did you manage to even start the game after compile?
16:48<andythenorth>seemed to work :)
16:48*andythenorth checks
16:49<Wolf01>I found some enum values declared as X_Y_Z and used as X_Z_Y
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16:49<andythenorth>it’s quite possible I’ve pasted the wrong patch
16:49*andythenorth looking
16:50<Wolf01>it could be, there are too many errors to even be able to run without asserting as soon as you click on the executable
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16:51*andythenorth compiles a different patch
16:51<andythenorth>to see if that works
16:53<andythenorth>Wolf01: 😳 sorry
16:55<andythenorth>I think the first patch I pasted is a newer attempt to do things ‘properly’
16:55<andythenorth>but I got stuck because it doesn’t compile
16:55<andythenorth>I haven’t diffed between the two
16:55<Wolf01>better now, only 21 errors
16:55<andythenorth>the last one I pasted is the hacky test
16:56<andythenorth>two types road / two types tram
16:57<Wolf01>ok, only libraries related errors
16:57<Wolf01>zlib.h and unicode
17:02<Wolf01>ok, old
17:03<Wolf01>maybe with the new version it will be happy
17:06<Wolf01>I was sure I configured the libraries and the includes
17:07<Wolf01>yeah, only the dmusic now
17:08<Wolf01>oh, my bad, I reverted the entire solution, that's why
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17:10<Wolf01>wtf, new errors each time I compile O_o
17:11<ST2>just to keep you on your toes :P
17:11<Wolf01>at least is not boring anymore
17:14<Wolf01>unresolved external symbols for libpng, zlibstat, libfreetype... what did I miss? last time I compiled with no problems
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17:16<+glx>which compiler ?
17:17<Wolf01>the standard one of vs140
17:18<+glx>hmm 140 is 2015 ?
17:18<+glx>try :)
17:19<Wolf01>I remember about that, I don't know why I was still using the 5.1
17:20<+glx>because 6.0 is hidden
17:22<Wolf01>I had them downloaded since when I switched to 2015 from 2013, but in the folder I only found the 5.1 ones, I don't know where I put the 6.0 ones and forgot about them
17:23<Wolf01>btw, compiled
17:23<ST2>thx +glx, I still use VS 2013 but someday... I'll need those too... and same issue as Wolf01: no idea to where I downloaded 6.0 last time xD
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17:25<Wolf01><supermop> sudden torrential rain <- here too
17:31<Wolf01>btw, nice job andy
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18:04<andythenorth>Wolf01: if you build road with catenary...
18:04<andythenorth>you’ll see the things I didn’t try to finish :)
18:05<Wolf01>you mean the road with those little road-icons?
18:05<andythenorth>garbled sprites
18:05<Wolf01>I might give a look to it
18:10<andythenorth>if I was to start properly on this...
18:10<andythenorth>the first thing would be to sort out the enum that holds the roadtypes
18:10<andythenorth>and the map bits
18:11<andythenorth>all things like ‘(HasBit(roadtypes, ROADTYPE_ROAD))’
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 15 00:00:57 2016