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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-07-17

---Logopened Sun Jul 17 00:00:00 2016
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01:00<MonkeyDrone>hello people
01:01<MonkeyDrone>i've a gameplay related query
01:01<MonkeyDrone>i placed a second train station with CTRL and it is some distance away from the other one. I want to remove it now but it says train in station , even though this part is abandoned and empty. How can i remove it?
01:03<MonkeyDrone>ooo clear tool , fancy ;p
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03:46<andythenorth>o/
03:50<@Alberth>o/
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04:11<andythenorth>hmm
04:19<andythenorth>foundry transporters
04:20*andythenorth deletes them
04:24<Milek7>Eddi|zuHause: i think it is overoptimization
04:24<Milek7>these days there is a lot of available memory
04:33-!-frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
04:33<@Alberth>and still not enough cpu time
04:33<@Alberth>hola
04:36<frosch123>hoi
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05:17<MonkeyDronez>oi
05:17<MonkeyDronez>ooo frosch123
05:17<MonkeyDronez>can i eat your head for a minute? :D
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05:18<frosch123>i need it for drinking tea
05:19<MonkeyDronez>hehe, i've a question regarding server-side scripting. All these gaming communities have scripts setup that do motd privately to people and have aliases setup. I did assign a alias on server side but it doesn't transfer to the clients. I was wondering if you know how how it all works.
05:20<frosch123>i think they all use "soap"
05:20<frosch123>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/soap
05:20<frosch123>and related tools
05:21<MonkeyDronez>alright, thank you frosch123 , i'll look into it
05:21<MonkeyDronez>just need some direction to go with
05:26<MonkeyDronez>btw frosch123 , has V453000 talked to you yet about 3D?
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05:44<Wolf01>o/
05:49-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd
05:49<Milek7>"Pack a VehicleListIdentifier in a single uint32."
05:49<Milek7>overoptimization again
05:50<@Alberth>the program was written in the previous century
05:51<Milek7>openttd?
05:51<Milek7>or original ttd?
05:51<@Alberth>where nobody would ever need more than 640K
05:51<@Alberth>and it was expected to sell 5 computers to a country
05:52<@Alberth>the former was constructed from the latter
05:53<@Alberth>VehicleListIdentifier is a bit different, it was that or turning the entire program upside down
05:54<Wolf01>oh, speaking about code, in the GetButtonArrangement() member function could I replace the numbers for the byte array arrangement with the enum values?
05:56<Milek7>./nat/x86-linux-dregs.c:146: internal-error: x86_linux_update_debug_registers: Assertion `lwp_is_stopped (lwp)' failed.
05:56<Milek7>A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
05:56<Milek7>oops
05:57<@Alberth>Wolf01: :O such a treasure for refactoring! yes please :)
05:57<Wolf01>more because it's driving me mad
05:57<@Alberth>haha, indeed :)
05:58<frosch123>does anyone have gcc-6 ?
05:58<Milek7>milek7: ~$ gcc --version
05:58<Milek7>gcc (GCC) 6.1.1 20160707
05:58<frosch123>what does "gcc -dumpversion" print?
05:59<Milek7>6.1.1
05:59<frosch123>what distro?
05:59<Milek7>arch
05:59<frosch123>ok, thanks :)
05:59<frosch123>i'll blame the suse guys then
06:04<Milek7>vehiclelist.cpp:26
06:04<Milek7>assert(c < (1 << 4));
06:05<Milek7>strange
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06:06<Milek7>ok, error is somewhere else
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06:14<Milek7>asserts are enabled by default or some special configure option is needed?
06:20<frosch123>i always do --enable-debug=3
06:20<frosch123>but the output will tell you whether assertions are enabled or not
06:24<Milek7>where?
06:24<frosch123>"checking assert... enabled"
06:26<Wolf01>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psukpluqs which one is better? I like more the arrange15 one even if it takes more space
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06:26<Milek7>frosch123:
06:26<Milek7>./configure --enable-debug=3 | grep assert
06:26<Milek7>checking assert... disabled
06:28<frosch123>no idea why it would be different for you
06:36<andythenorth>Wolf01: got any screenshots? o_O
06:36<Wolf01>for?
06:37<andythenorth>toolbar arrangement
06:37<Wolf01>nah, just refactoring trunk
06:38<Wolf01>preparing soil for heavy patching
06:38<andythenorth>arrange15 is ‘correct’ to my eyes
06:38<andythenorth>depends which languages you’re used to I think
06:38<Wolf01>I'm used to think in 80 chars soft-wrap
06:38<andythenorth>vertical lists are easier to scan
06:38<andythenorth>demonstrably
06:39<andythenorth>optimising space is wrong, I have scroll
06:39<andythenorth>optimise readability :)
06:39<Wolf01>the arrange14 is like the original one, with aligned widgets
06:39<frosch123>andythenorth: you mean "screensize grows faster than code is being refactored"
06:40<andythenorth>probably :)
06:40<frosch123>poor notebook users :p
06:43*andythenorth has had same screen size for 10 years
06:44<Wolf01>the main problem here is what do you want to preserve: widget alignment (to visually see if both toolbars match the length) or just readability, I'll go for the second
06:46<Wolf01>the "top" toolbar should match the length of the arrangement (buttons will shift if it doesn't match the length), I don't know what could happen if the bottom one doesn't
06:47<andythenorth>I’d write a guard for something like that
06:52<Wolf01>sure
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06:58<andythenorth>RV sound effects
06:58<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:List_of_sound_effects
06:58<andythenorth>which ones should I use?
06:58<andythenorth>I have buses, coaches, mail vans, freight trucks, pax trams, freight trams
07:00<frosch123>randomise the SOUND_COMEDY_CAR_xxx
07:01<andythenorth>:P
07:05<Wolf01>nice behaviour, if I add buttons, the overflowing ones won't be printed, if I remove buttons it prints a spacer and then a pause button on the right
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07:06<andythenorth>SOUND_CAR_HORN for trams
07:06<andythenorth>SOUND_CAR_HORN_2 for pax trams :P
07:06<andythenorth>important that I share my thoughts here, eh?
07:06<Wolf01>:)
07:07<andythenorth>whistle for steam trams
07:07<frosch123>i don't mind, i play all games muted
07:07<andythenorth>me too
07:07<frosch123>except that you cannot mute factorios startup sound :/
07:07<andythenorth>because crossing bells
07:07<frosch123>it works fine with trance or techno, but is annoying with metal
07:10<Milek7>just unplug speakers :P
07:10<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27616 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-17 13:10:21 +0200 )
07:10<@DorpsGek>-Codechange [FS#6487]: [Build] Change the GCC version detection so that it works with two-digit and truncated versions.
07:12<Eddi|zuHause>i like game sounds, just if it gets too repetetive, like the ottd title screen it gets too much
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07:27<Milek7>gdb is broken
07:29<Wolf01>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6488 patch done, I saved it in git format, I hope it works
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07:35<Eddi|zuHause>you know i hate when two people have the same colour? now they also have the same length and same structure...
07:35<Wolf01>for me you all have the same colour :|
07:37<Wolf01>the only exception are long time friends for who I set a particular nick colour
07:37<andythenorth>“There ought to be a setting for [x]” is an internet law similar to Godwin
07:37<andythenorth>needs a name
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07:51<frosch123>"feature creap" ?
07:54<Milek7>Wcls *AllocateWindowDescFront(WindowDesc *desc, int window_number, bool return_existing = false)
07:54<Milek7>in window_gui.h
07:54<Milek7>it should be Wcls *AllocateWindowDescFront(WindowDesc *desc, WindowNumber window_number, bool return_existing = false)
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08:00<@Alberth>there are about 110 windows rather than 5
08:00<andythenorth>SOUND_FACTORY_WHISTLE for steam trams eh?
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08:01<Milek7>Alberth: hm?
08:01<@Alberth>producing sound from pax :p
08:02<@Alberth>Milek7: that enum lists about 5 window classes, so ok, 15 windows, there are close to 10 times that amount
08:03<Milek7>what enum?
08:03<@Alberth>ie 90% isn't covered by the enum
08:03<@Alberth>WindowNumber
08:03<Milek7>this is typedef
08:03<Milek7>to int32
08:03<@Alberth>ah, right, wrong line, I see, sorry
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08:09<andythenorth>Road Hog compile got slow :(
08:09<andythenorth>switch count has grown rapidly
08:09<andythenorth>bloody switches
08:14<argoneus>good morning train friends
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08:27<andythenorth>Road Hog 1k gets nearer
08:27<andythenorth>it’s “interesting” making an RV set when most of this channel is ‘meh’ about RVs :D
08:29<frosch123>is it different for train and industry sets?
08:29<V453000>one day I shall make a RV set and show you how it's done :P
08:32<andythenorth>it’s different for industry sets
08:32<andythenorth>trains, dunno
08:32<andythenorth>V453000 easy, just two vehicles: pax, and universal freight vehicle
08:33<V453000>exactly? :D
08:33<andythenorth>but trams
08:34<andythenorth>also, parenting
08:34<andythenorth>biab
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08:40*Wolf01 will be back later or directly tomorrow
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08:40<Samu>test
08:40<Wolf01>'night
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08:40<Samu>i think i'm lagging today
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08:56<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7913/colbiggan_box_tram.png
09:00<frosch123>evil pantograph making vehicles asymmetric :)
09:00<andythenorth>and headlight
09:01<frosch123>is the roof flat or round?
09:02<andythenorth>yes
09:02<andythenorth>either
09:02<andythenorth>is small pixels :)
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09:23<_dp_>hi! does anyone know a good way to pass some data from gs to client patch that unmodded clients will just silently ignore?
09:24<_dp_>like mb somehow doing an invisible string, or putting it in inaccessible place
09:34<_dp_>oh, it seems it only complains about too many parameters for SRINGx, not initial strings
09:34<_dp_>guess that will do
09:34<Milek7>add new function
09:35<Milek7>and catch exception in unpatched clients?
09:36<_dp_>Milek7, I mean gs is on server, and clients connect to it
09:37<Milek7>ah, so i don't know
09:38<Milek7>maybe patched clients can send magic packet after connecting
09:38<Milek7>and server would know that it can send special packets to that client
09:38<_dp_>Milek7, need patched server for that
09:39<Milek7>yes
09:39<Milek7>you need patched client anyway, so why not server?
09:39<_dp_>Milek7, with patched server it's easier, can just add stuff to savegame, but need solution for any server
09:39<_dp_>well, long story, reasons xD
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09:48<Milek7>hm
09:48<Milek7>60 companies would be sufficient?
09:49<@Alberth>I think 15 is
09:49<Milek7>but maybe if i'm anyway changing that, so maybe 250
09:49<Milek7>Alberth: no
09:50<_dp_>how many times does company appear in map array?
09:51<_dp_>coz even if you have infinite memory it still adds to savegame size
09:51<@Alberth>Milek7: considered other limits, like total #vehicles that runs, and the cpu power that everybody needs
09:51<@Alberth>?
09:52<_dp_>Alberth, even 15 is too much if you consider that :p
09:53<@Alberth>indeed
09:53<Milek7>not all players on servers have 100 trains
09:53<Milek7>many buys 1 train and go away
09:53<@Alberth>60*100 = 6000
09:53<Milek7>why would create fancy autoremove algorithms, when it is possible to have more companies?
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09:54<Milek7>_dp_: you mean in tile?
09:54<_dp_>Milek7, yep
09:54<@Alberth>what makes you think that everybody has enough cpu power to run such a map at the proper speed?
09:55<Milek7>there is plenty of space to include extra company bits
09:55<Milek7>eg. bit 7 in m1
09:55<Milek7>and bit 0, 1 and m6
09:55<_dp_>Milek7, that doesn't sound like plenty :p
09:56<Milek7>and for roads where two owners are stored is also m4
09:56<Milek7>_dp_: there is already 5 bits for companies in most tiles
09:56<Milek7>so extra 3 bits and you have whole byte
09:58<_dp_>Milek7, ok, I guess it won't add much to savegame then, at least compared to damn trees xD
10:02<Wormnest>I get AIOrder.ERR_ORDER_TOO_MANY Is this a global or per company maximum number of orders and not per vehicle?
10:09<Milek7>why there are functions in .h files?
10:09<Milek7>.h should be only header, not code
10:12<frosch123>Wormnest: there is a limit per vehicle
10:12<frosch123>and a limit for the game
10:13<frosch123>Wormnest: human reach the "game limit" when not using shared orders
10:13<Wormnest>Thanks frosch123. I guess nonocab with 5000 ships and lots of buoys is reaching the game limit
10:14<frosch123>254 per vehicle, 64000 total
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10:15<Wormnest>that would be 12 orders per vehicle for 5000 ships which is indeed not enough
10:15<frosch123>teach it to share orders :)
10:15<Wormnest>That means I need to give higher priority to implementng shared orders
10:16<Wormnest>yep
10:16<Wormnest>thanks
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11:31<Milek7>hm
11:31<Milek7>gcc don't have types wider than 128 bits
11:32<Milek7>but i need bitmask for 240 companies
11:35<_dp_>looks like someone made a bot to spam servers with companies...
11:35<Milek7>_dp_: hm?
11:35<_dp_>Milek7, check n-ice servers with 15+ clients
11:36<_dp_>just banned him out of our servers too
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11:44<Milek7>there is some function for getting/setting tunnel/bridge owner?
11:46<Milek7>ok, Get/SetRoadOwner is propably used
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11:56<andythenorth>trams
11:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: some time ago we discussed optimum tram lengths, and concluded >= 16/8
11:57<andythenorth>since then I made a lot of trams shorter, for visual reasons
11:57<andythenorth>>= 16/8 length is more important than visual appearance?
11:57<andythenorth>‘yes’ would be ok, just need to be sure the change has a rationale
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12:08<Yho>A TextEffect is a small window with text used for errors, right ?
12:08<frosch123>[17:32] <Milek7> but i need bitmask for 240 companies <- std::bitset<MAX_COMPANIES>
12:09<frosch123>Yho: no, it's the cost/income animation
12:09<frosch123>the raising numbers when you build stuff
12:09<frosch123>or also the loading indicators of vehicles in stations
12:09<Yho>Ah yes it makes sense too
12:12<andythenorth>well
12:12<andythenorth>for trucks, the length stays ~same across generations
12:12<andythenorth>not always but often
12:12*andythenorth doing same for trams
12:18<frosch123>trucks follow the laws for maximum truck length, right?
12:19<frosch123>just like ships follow the rule of "either fit through panama canal, or be as big as possible"
12:20<andythenorth>well there was lots of rationale
12:21<andythenorth>but mostly it just looks good in buy menu to keep them same length
12:21<andythenorth>not all types do it, which seems to provide nice variety
12:22<andythenorth>tram capacity progression is a bit steep
12:22<andythenorth>48t->72t->96t
12:23<andythenorth>48->60->72?
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12:32<andythenorth>or even 36->48->72?
12:34<V453000>6 6 6
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12:37<frosch123>andythenorth: make them useful :)
12:37<frosch123>btw. if you use multiple of 12 for capacity, you should definitely use barrels :p
12:38<frosch123>36 -> 60 -> 144
12:38<frosch123>gross tram
12:41<andythenorth>anything over 20t is useful imho
12:41<andythenorth>30t-40t are sweet spots
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12:43<Yho>I think I have just found an error in a comment : vehicle_gui.cpp:2375. It says "callback method after the cloning of a vechicle" while it seems to be for start-stop callback.
12:44<Yho>It's not very important but it can confuse the reader
12:44<andythenorth>‘wrong comments’ is definitely a thing in OTTD source :)
12:44<andythenorth>not many, but occasionally
12:44<andythenorth>based on what I’ve seen
12:55<andythenorth>Yho: provide a patch? o_O
12:56<Yho>andythenorth: I could. I had hoped a developpr would just correct it directly but they are not here
13:15<MonkeyDrone>does there exist an excel sheet that lists all comparison data on all the engines?
13:15<MonkeyDrone>i need to educate myself on all of em :D
13:19<@Alberth>just default set?
13:19<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Trains , although not a spread sheet
13:20<@Alberth>I am not sure how useful it is, you need to play the game throughout the ages anyway, just find the engine as you play?
13:20<@Alberth>also, stats are randomized afaik
13:21<andythenorth>only intro date
13:21*andythenorth has considered randomised stats before :P
13:22<@Alberth>anything wrong with that?
13:22<andythenorth>with random map, random industry gen, and random GS
13:22<andythenorth>it was one more thing to make a game unplayable :)
13:24<@Alberth>I guess you need to have at least 2-3 engines at all times, so you can avoid the bad one
13:25<andythenorth>it was one way to have lots of engines, whilst not having one always be the most boss
13:25<andythenorth>fewer engines is a better solution :)
13:25<@Alberth>I was playing mostly default, but in 2000, with train length 7, and monorail
13:26<@Alberth>7 is too long, you don't get enough traffic :p
13:26<andythenorth>5 seems to be winning
13:26<andythenorth>I boringly build everything 5 now :|
13:26<andythenorth>very boring player
13:27<@Alberth>monorail is very expensive, it took a lot of years before I had comfortably enough money
13:28<@Alberth>maybe also due to 7 length though
13:33<andythenorth>visually plausible? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7914/tramz_capacities.png
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13:36<@Alberth>1 vs 2 is a bit weird, isn't it?
13:37<andythenorth>maybe
13:37<andythenorth>what’s weird about it?
13:37<@Alberth>the other way around seems more likely, but the cargo wagons are equal
13:37<@Alberth>weird is equal cargo wagons, but more tonnes
13:37<andythenorth>I might make the tanks longer on 2
13:37<andythenorth>or bigger
13:38<andythenorth>it’s cheap copy-paste :D
13:39<@Alberth>2 engines vs 1 engine is nice, and makes it easily reconizable
13:39<andythenorth>I think it’s better to not reuse the wagon from earlier version
13:39<@Alberth>seems like it, or you must make a longer chain
13:40<@Alberth>the first one shorter :p
13:40<andythenorth>yeah, longer I’m trying to avoid
13:40<andythenorth>it’s nice to have them all same 16/8 length
13:40<@Alberth>yep, less mess when upgrading
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27617 trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt (2016-07-17 19:45:36 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian: 6 changes by Parastais
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14:06<MonkeyDronez>ok guys, question
14:06<MonkeyDronez>I have a train length of 15 units. It has 3x engines and the rest is cargo.
14:07<V453000>answer is yes
14:08<MonkeyDronez>i just got the new engine unlocked but it's a dual engine, so i would like to replace the 3x engines with 2x of the twin engine
14:08<MonkeyDronez>there has to be an easy way to do this :P
14:08<V453000>of course
14:08<V453000>there isn't :>
14:09-!-Mazur [~mazur@5ED2923C.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
14:09<V453000>that's why you use NUTS :P
14:10<Alkel_U3>there's a patch for template-based replacements so that you can be more specific about how the resulting consist looks. It's in JGR's patchpack and I think thatgot there originally from some other pack
14:12<Sylf>yo V
14:12<Alkel_U3>other than that... I hope you like tedious micromanagement :P
14:12<V453000>hi Sylf :) how are you?
14:12<Sylf>goodgood
14:12<Sylf>you?
14:13<V453000>great
14:13<V453000>had a vacation in the last week
14:13<Sylf>cool
14:13<V453000>finalized concept of my new train set, and set up technical pipeline
14:13<V453000>now I just need to shit models
14:13<Sylf>you're taking vacation, leaving the busy factorio team behind?
14:13<V453000>yeah, had no warm water in our flat so we kind of had to go elsewhere for the week
14:14<Sylf>Awesome XD
14:14<Sylf>But the team quickly made 9 patch releases, so someone's been busy
14:15<V453000>I know :) programmers have a lot of bug work now
14:15<V453000>gfx is busy, but not breaking
14:15<V453000>I played factorio quite a bit during June to test things, it made me not really want to play now :D
14:16<V453000>sooooo we might have a new train set :> better than ever I dare say
14:29<MonkeyDronez>ah sorry, got busy
14:29<MonkeyDronez>tedious micromanagement it is, hehe
14:30<MonkeyDronez>what about BRIX
14:30<MonkeyDronez>brixxxxxxxxx
14:30<MonkeyDronez>hehe, yes, you know what i mean when i say brixxx
14:31<MonkeyDronez>hmmm, i have 41 trains i need to refit , the whole engine replacement stuff
14:31<MonkeyDronez>fooooooooooooook it
14:31<andythenorth>train length 5, never double head
14:31<andythenorth>^ all your auto-replace problems solved
14:32<MonkeyDronez>lol
14:32<MonkeyDronez>well length 15, 3 engines rolling it. the nightmare is real
14:33<MonkeyDronez>damn bubbleheads is doing it automatically, he's in my team, i shall earn the ways!
14:34<MonkeyDronez>there is an option in auto replace called 'Car Removal', it keeps the length!
14:34<MonkeyDronez>HAH!
14:34<andythenorth>yup
14:35<Alkel_U3>yeah, but it doesn't help with the engines
14:40<MonkeyDronez>it's cool
14:40<MonkeyDronez>i have 5 engines on the trains instead of 4
14:40<MonkeyDronez>i can live with that ;p
14:40<MonkeyDronez>it is a very long train :P
14:41<MonkeyDronez>these 41 trains enter and exit two stations, with 3 lines going both ways and it's always full. i love it
14:41<MonkeyDronez>http://i.imgur.com/tQd2Nku.jpg
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14:45<andythenorth>large flat maps :P
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14:53<Milek7>hm
14:54<Milek7>if i increase max_companies
14:54<Milek7>then it cannot load saves created in unmodified versions
14:55<Milek7>"Invalid chunk size"
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15:02<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7915/dump_tram_capacities.png
15:02<andythenorth>o_O
15:02<andythenorth>engine on no.3 is ugly, will fix that
15:05<V453000>yeah 3 needs some more love
15:05<V453000>other than that it's fabulous af
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15:05<Milek7>ok, need some addational SLE_CONDARR
15:07<Samu>my internet today is doing bad
15:11<andythenorth>bbl
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15:40<Samu>nice bug, blizzard: https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7Ijih8jch26nYNX1MqT
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15:54<NGC3982>woops
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15:58<NekoMaster>Hello everybody :)
16:00-!-fjb_ [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
16:00<NekoMaster>Anyone around to help me with a problem?
16:00<Supercheese>Let's see, I have a crossbow and a flamethrower handy, I should be able to handle it ;)
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i have vassals with an army size of 1 million men, does that help?
16:01<NekoMaster>I'm trying to compile NML code with the make command after setting up all the tools and I get this in my command LIne
16:01<NekoMaster>-> /bin/bash: cc: command not found Error 127
16:01<NekoMaster>* make: *** [NARS_ADDON.nml] Error 127
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>you did not install a c compiler
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>or it's not in your $PATH
16:04<NekoMaster>I did everything I was told to on this page : http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Setting_up_a_Windows_compile_environment
16:04<Milek7>case 0xAE: return this->t->have_ratings;
16:04<Milek7>why newgrf can read these variables?
16:05<NekoMaster>What package is for MinGW that handles Compiling C?
16:06<Supercheese>gcc?
16:06<Sylf>Nekomaster, are you running that under a DOS prompt?
16:07<NekoMaster>I'm running it under Command Line in Windows 10
16:07<Sylf>Take a read of Adding all programs to the PATH variable section of that setup page
16:07<NekoMaster>I did and I have everything in my paths
16:08<Sylf>also, you'll want to use mingw shell
16:08<Sylf>mingw should have installed some bash or something in the start menu
16:09<NekoMaster>i have bash, and its open, but I have no idea what I'm doing
16:09<Sylf>In the bash is where you'll need to navigate to where the source code is, and run the make command
16:10<Sylf>You can keep the windows 10 command prompt closed permanently
16:10<NekoMaster>I dunno how to navigate in bash, cd doesnt seem to do anything
16:11<Sylf>cd by itself returns you to the "home" directory
16:11<Sylf>ls -l
16:11<Sylf>is just like dir in command prompt
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16:12<Sylf>to access your C: drive, for examlpe,
16:12<Sylf>cd /c
16:12<NekoMaster>Ok so I'm in the nars_addon folder where the pnml is
16:13<NekoMaster>but when I do "make" it says no targets specified and no makefile found
16:13<NekoMaster>this is the nars_addon folder I got from the nars_addon_source.tar
16:13<Sylf>take a screenshot of the window, plz?
16:13-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.136.141.100] has quit []
16:13<NekoMaster>Of which window? bash or my explorer window?
16:14<Sylf>bash.
16:14<NekoMaster>and where shall I post the picture?
16:14<Sylf>Or copy/paste the output to https://paste.openttdcoop.org/
16:14<NekoMaster>Send it via pm?
16:14<Sylf>screenshots can go to imgur.com
16:14<Sylf>or any image posting services
16:16<NekoMaster>I didn't think about imgur because I havent used it in for so long
16:17<NekoMaster>Heres the screen shot of my bash window
16:17<NekoMaster>http://imgur.com/AR54gTH
16:18<Sylf>cd /d/GRFPROJECTS/NARS_ADDON
16:18<Sylf>then make
16:18<NekoMaster>ahh I see
16:18<NekoMaster>though it would help if bash would show where I am like commandline does
16:19<NekoMaster>and I get this in bash
16:19<NekoMaster>[CPP] NARS_ADDON.nml
16:19<NekoMaster>/bin/bash: cc: command not found
16:19<NekoMaster>make: *** [NARS_ADDON.nml] Error 127
16:19<Sylf>the letter ~ is actually your current location
16:19<Sylf>~ in unix-speaks means you're in your home directory
16:19<Sylf>oh wait, nevermind
16:19<Sylf>that bash prompt doesn't even show that
16:20<NekoMaster>its been a while since I've used linux and terminal stuff
16:20<Sylf>you can use
16:20<Sylf>pwd
16:20<Sylf>to show your current directory
16:20<NekoMaster>anyways, I still get /bin/bash: cc: command not found
16:20<Sylf>can you type gcc
16:21<NekoMaster>gcc.exe :fatal error: no input files
16:21<Sylf>ok good.
16:21<NekoMaster>compilation terminated
16:22<Sylf>On line 107 of Makefile, it has CC ?= cc
16:22<Sylf>Change that to
16:22<Sylf>CC ?= gcc
16:22<NekoMaster>this is the makefile you made and posted though
16:22<Sylf>yes
16:23<NekoMaster>ok, I set cc ?= gcc
16:23<Sylf>save the file, and you can try make again
16:24<NekoMaster>Nope, still saying the same thing
16:24<Sylf>another screenshot plz?
16:25<NekoMaster>one moment
16:25<NekoMaster>http://imgur.com/EhndqVE
16:27<Sylf>how about
16:27<Sylf>which gcc
16:27<Sylf>(that's the command)
16:28<NekoMaster>ok i did that and bash said "/usr/local/bin/gcc.exe"
16:28<Sylf>this isn't really a proper way, but...
16:29<Sylf>cp /usr/local/bin/gcc.exe /usr/local/bin/cc.exe
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16:29<NekoMaster>did I mess something up while I was installing stuff?
16:29<Sylf>I've no idea
16:29<Sylf>I've never used MinGW myself
16:29<NekoMaster>oh
16:30<NekoMaster>what do you use?
16:30<Sylf>I'm on Linux.
16:30<NekoMaster>ahh
16:30<NekoMaster>I would use linux but lately I find it kind of clunky
16:30<NekoMaster>or at least hte environment that is
16:30<NekoMaster>i miss the XFCE ofr Xubuntu 10.04
16:30<NekoMaster>and nice, the thing finally compiled
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16:33<NekoMaster>So I'm in game and I can see and use the FP45 that you coded
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16:34<Sylf>I didn't code reliability information
16:34<Sylf>it's probably using whatever the default value, or some random value
16:34<NekoMaster>I'd just keep things at the default value or what ever
16:35<Sylf>I also didn't take too much time adjusting TE or running/purchase cost
16:35<Sylf>I still need to learn how to code B unit
16:35<NekoMaster>and me, you, or we will set the reliability stuff as we go, based on real life data. for Example, the Bombardier H-616 (High Reliability-616) was actually very unreliabile
16:35<NekoMaster>Yeah, there will be some B units
16:36<NekoMaster>in the past I remember using GRF maker and b units where just replacing the sprites of adjacent engines of the same type
16:36<Sylf>yes
16:36<NekoMaster>So any extra Locomotvies, say a EMD F-unit that you connected it would replace the sprite with another one
16:36<Sylf>I just need to learn how to do that in NML
16:37<Sylf>shouldn't be too difficult
16:37<NekoMaster>Though for now we'll just tackle regular single unit locomotives
16:37<NekoMaster>I my self have to learn how to add locomotives period
16:37<Sylf>any 8/8 length single unit loco should be basically a copy of FP45
16:38<NekoMaster>Though the FP45 spirte is a bit off, sits a bit too low on the tracks
16:38<NekoMaster>http://imgur.com/q7PIOA0
16:38<Sylf>We'll work through them, each direction at a time. We can take the discussion to PM
16:39<NekoMaster>PM on the forums or IRC PM?
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16:43<Milek7>almost done
16:43<NekoMaster>herpderp
16:44<Milek7>only need to save/load/convert these new std::bitset
16:44<Milek7>and fix multiplayer passwords
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>so, youtube suggests me a video with a thumbnail that has two girls close to each other and the text "lesbian drama", how high are the chances that there's any lesbians in the video? :p
16:47<NekoMaster>probably click bait
16:47<Alkel_U3>best case it's never gonna give you up
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>well, the problem about clickbait is that it works more often than it should.
16:49<NekoMaster>you know I've never been rick rolled
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17:22<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm not sure if i've ever been rick rolled in the strict sense, but i have definitely clicked on a video expecting it to be never gonna give you up, and it was.
17:22<NekoMaster>lol
17:22<NekoMaster>I've listened to the song my self because I actually kinda like the music
17:23<NekoMaster>but thats not a rick roll if you looked for his song
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>well, it was this video: which at that time (1st april) was titled "an important message from..."
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPYwcTDVRAg
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17:46<Wolf01>moin
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18:58<Wolf01>'night
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21:37<NekoMaster>its only after 21:30 and it feels so much later then this
21:49<Eddi|zuHause>strange, it's almost 4:00 and it feels much earlier than this
21:49<NekoMaster>I hate that I have to sleep
21:49<NekoMaster>I have so much more to do
21:50<NekoMaster>I jsut learned how to code a little and add single unit locomotives into openttd
22:00<Eddi|zuHause>congratulations. now the real problems start :p
22:01<NekoMaster>Well I already have a problem, the code I used from Sylf that I modified wont compile
22:01<NekoMaster>"make: *** No rule to make target `NARS_ADDON.pnml', needed by `NARS_ADDON_SET.nml'. Stop."
22:01<Eddi|zuHause>you might be in the wrong subdirectory
22:02<NekoMaster>I'm in the directory where my NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml file sists
22:02<Eddi|zuHause>without _SET
22:02<NekoMaster>D:\GRF PROJECTS\NARS_ADDON_SET
22:03<NekoMaster>Thats where "NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml" is
22:03<NekoMaster>and my gfx, lang, and src folders
22:03<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but it's looking for NARS_ADDON.pnml, not NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml
22:03<NekoMaster>I know that, I changed the name of stuff and I can't figure out how to make it compile with the new name
22:04<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, you need to update the makefile...
22:04<NekoMaster>I dunno how to do that
22:04<Eddi|zuHause>well, i can't help you with that. either you learn to speak makefile, or you undo the renaming
22:09<NekoMaster>I already looked in the makefile and makefile.config and replaced all instances of NARS_ADDON with NARS_ADDON_SET
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22:09<NekoMaster>I can't find anything else that is NARS ADDON or NARS_ADDON
22:16<NekoMaster>now I'm getting this after renaming the file back to NARS_ADDON.pnml
22:16<NekoMaster>No rule to make target `gfx\diesel\EMD_E9.png', needed by `NARS_ADDON.nml'. Stop.
22:16<NekoMaster>I don't even have a EMD_E9 in any of my files
22:16<NekoMaster>or in my code
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22:19<Eddi|zuHause>try one of the .dep files (which are usually automatically generated from the code)
22:19<NekoMaster>dep file?
22:19<NekoMaster>I did a search of my NARS_ADDON folder and there are no .dep files
22:22<Eddi|zuHause>strange, what kind of makefile are you using?
22:22<NekoMaster>a makefile that came with some source code that Sylf made for my NARS ADDON project
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but where did he get the makefile from?
22:23<NekoMaster>I dunno
22:23<NekoMaster>askt hem
22:23<NekoMaster>They're on linux
22:23<NekoMaster>I'm on Windows 10
22:24<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with anything?
22:24<NekoMaster>I dunno, maybe theres some linux tools that they used I dunno I just started doing stuff today
22:24<NekoMaster>I've spent all week trying to make sense of NML and setting up sprites
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22:26<Eddi|zuHause>well, maybe you should get a basic idea of what a makefile is now.
22:26<NekoMaster>I dont even know where to start with that
22:27<Eddi|zuHause>google is a good place to start learning about stuff
22:28<NekoMaster>I still dont even konw why its complaining about a EMD_E9 when the only thing in that test code was NML code and a sprite for a EMD FP45
22:29<Eddi|zuHause>well, i can't speak about your makefile, since i don't know anything about it, but how it usually works is that a tool will go through the source code, and read out all filenames referenced in there, then it puts that list into a .dep file to let make know which files are required to build the project
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>and then if make doesn't find one of those files, it bails
22:30<NekoMaster>Is there such a tool for windows?
22:30<Eddi|zuHause>all the tools you need you already have
22:31<Eddi|zuHause>both nmlc and gcc have a mode which output such dependencies
22:31<NekoMaster>I'm looking on googe now on how to make a make file but I'm not getting what I want
22:32<Eddi|zuHause>your problem is not with these tools, but that they find a dependency which you overlooked
22:32<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. one of your .pnml files references a EMD_E9.png file which doesn't exist
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22:33<NekoMaster>I looked through my nml files
22:33<Eddi|zuHause>possibly it doesn't have that name in the .pnml file, but only in the nml file
22:33<NekoMaster>none of them have anything to do with a EMD E9
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22:48<NekoMaster>now I'm getting another error and this makes no sense
22:48<NekoMaster>[Knmlc ERROR: "src/diesel/DIESEL_EMD_FP45.pnml", line 10: Unrecognized identifier 'spriteset_diesel_emd_fp45_depot' encountered
22:48<NekoMaster>Theres nothing at line 10 in DIESEL_EMD_FP45.pnml
22:49<NekoMaster>I even changed some stuff around and it still saying the problem is at line 10
22:49<Eddi|zuHause>are you sure you're editing the right file?
22:49<NekoMaster>yes, there is only one Vehicle pnml
22:50<NekoMaster>what the hell? I even changed the file name and it still says the same thing
22:54<NekoMaster>ok i think i have to restart bash everytime i change something
22:54<NekoMaster>it seems that bash doesnt see changes I make from the last attempt at make
22:55<Eddi|zuHause>try "make -B" if that happens
22:55<Eddi|zuHause>it usually means your dependencies are wrong
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23:44<NekoMaster>ungh
23:44<NekoMaster>why do I keep getting the stupid errors that make no sense with nml
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23:50<NekoMaster>nmlc ERROR: "src/vehicleID.pnml", line 23: Syntax error, unexpected token "item"
23:51<NekoMaster>Everything was just fine a moment ago, and all I did was edit some off sets in my template.pnml and this happened
23:56<NekoMaster>im going to bed, these stupid errors are making my brain hurt
23:57-!-NekoMaster is now known as NekoMaster-dead
---Logclosed Mon Jul 18 00:00:02 2016