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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-07-24

---Logopened Sun Jul 24 00:00:13 2016
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02:04<andythenorth>is cat
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04:05<andythenorth>so
04:06<andythenorth>I have crippled tram TE, because the values were very very high compared to equivalent trains
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04:08<andythenorth>it’s still too high, probably at least double the RL value
04:10<andythenorth>comparing equivalent trams and trains (similar HP and consist weight), the tram with twice the TE of the train takes 8 tiles to reach max speed (35mph)
04:11<andythenorth>the train reaches 40mph in about 4 tiles
04:14<Flygon_>If anything, this does show how screwey OpenTTD's physics model is
04:15*andythenorth is looking for the code
04:15<andythenorth>I don’t mind screwy physics, just need to know what values to set
04:15*andythenorth suspects there’s some friction coefficient or something that’s different
04:17<andythenorth>friction coeff 15 for trains, 40 for trams
04:27<Flygon_>Higher makes accelerating harder?
04:27<Flygon_>It seems a bit odd, given even really weak Trams are really sprightly
04:28<Flygon_>The W-Classes in Melbourne might seem weak by modern standards, but you can still trip over your passengers with the acceleration :P
04:30<andythenorth>hmm
04:30*andythenorth is doing it wrong
04:34<andythenorth>to overcome rolling friction I need more HP, not TE?
04:34<andythenorth>TE is about going up slopes
04:35<Flygon_>Welllllll
04:35<Flygon_>TE helps with acceleration
04:35<Flygon_>But it is capped by horsepower
04:35<Flygon_>A machine can have craptacular TE, but an infinite speed cap and moderate horsepower
04:36<Flygon_>It will constantly keep accelerating, even if slowly, assuming OpenTTD physics
04:36<Flygon_>If a machine has insanely high TE, infinite max speed, but crap horsepower, it hits a lower speed cap than the previous machine would
04:36<Flygon_>With the same weight load
04:37<Flygon_>I phrased that crappily
04:37<Flygon_>Let's reword it
04:37<Flygon_>TE is your acceleration
04:37<Flygon_>But more HP allows for more powerful acceleration... ?
04:37<Flygon_>Fuck
04:37<Flygon_>Why didn't I take that physics class
04:37<Flygon_>It all makes sense in my head :|
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05:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27623 trunk/config.lib (2016-07-24 11:13:51 +0200 )
05:13<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r27616) [FS#6492]: Missed two version checks, and messed one up.
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05:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it might very well be that train physics is simply calculated twice as often as tram physics, and that's why tram and train behave differently.
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, for TE the weight of the front unit is relevant, not just consist weight
05:28-!-gelignite [~gelignite@x4e30e2ba.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd
05:38<andythenorth>I can account for that by moving capacity or weight around
05:38<andythenorth>somewhat
05:40<andythenorth>for now I have simply increased tram HP :P
05:46-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
05:46<Wolf01>o/
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>in any case, the max TE value as modelled by openttd describes the sliding friction, and limits the acceleration at low speeds. at higher speeds, HP is the only restriction to acceleration
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>sliding friction is probably not the right word
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>the point at wich the wheels start to slip
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>instead of roll
05:50<Wolf01>I always tought we used air drag... it's easy with cubes :>
05:50<Wolf01>*thought
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>there is also air drag
05:51<Eddi|zuHause>but that is only relevant at high speeds
05:51<Flygon_>I thought Air Drag, for the purposes of OpenTTD, only occoured in tunnels
05:52<Eddi|zuHause>no
05:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's just much higher in tunnels
05:53<Flygon_>Oh O_o
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05:58<Wolf01>I've taken physics class, but I'm too lazy to make calculations, that's why I usually build one train and test it, if it doesn't work well (can't reach at least 95% of speed cap or takes ages to accelerate) then I'll add one or more engines
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06:01<Wolf01>Usually I just convert KN to Kg if I'm not sure if the TE is enough for my consist, just to get a suggestion on how many engines it needs
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06:02<Wolf01>o/
06:02<@Alberth>hi
06:03<@Alberth>oh, the morning has already finished
06:05<Wolf01>And with convert I mean "multiply the TE by 100"
06:07<@Alberth>absolute TE is of interest? I just use "bigger is better"
06:08<Wolf01>I think the TE in OTTD is a nice thing to have, but also enough confusing to whom doesn't understand these things, we should need a "your engines are able to move up to #Kg"
06:10<@Alberth>fair enough
06:10<Wolf01>https://blog.xkcd.com/2015/05/13/new-book-thing-explainer/ <-
06:10<Wolf01>like this
06:12<@Alberth>ha, yes :)
06:12<Wolf01>mmmh, I need more home automation... "hey cortana, close windows and start the air cooler"... shuts down pc
06:12<@Alberth>all the model railway people will be sad though
06:13-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
06:14<Samu>2041, 2015
06:14<@Alberth>haha :) I had a signature "Look ma, windows (on my computer) without Windows" for years :)
06:14<MonkeyDrone>i enabled cortana 2 weeks ago
06:14<MonkeyDrone>then i realized i don't have a mic...
06:14<MonkeyDrone>gg
06:14<Wolf01>+1
06:14<MonkeyDrone>it's too late to stop cortana, she might as well collect whatever info is left to collect ;p
06:14<@Alberth>:D
06:15<Samu>i got my hands on a celeron 1000
06:15<Samu>128 MB ram
06:15<MonkeyDrone>oh gawd, celerons
06:15<MonkeyDrone>had to use one long long time ago, it was slow even for that time
06:15<Samu>6 GB HDD
06:16<Samu>didn't try openttd on it, i should perhaps
06:18<Wolf01>I'm thinking about disabling the voice feature on my desktop and enable it on the phone
06:18<Wolf01>I think is more useful there
06:19<MonkeyDrone>Samu, lol, it won't work
06:19<MonkeyDrone>Samu, but you could set it up to run as a router or something
06:19<Samu>it doesn't have network
06:20<Wolf01>I have a celeron 1000 as a server, running for at least 12 years
06:20<Wolf01>I'll replace it with a SoC one day...
06:20<Samu>it has a phone line connection thing
06:20<Wolf01>called modem
06:20<Samu>it's useless
06:21<Samu>ya
06:21<Samu>compaq presario something
06:21<Wolf01>Mine too, I use it as a fax machine too
06:21<Samu>compaq presario 12xl403
06:22<Samu>can't find a picture of it on the internet :(
06:23<MonkeyDrone>AOL still uses dialup
06:23<MonkeyDrone>you can hook it up
06:23<MonkeyDrone>hehe
06:23<Samu>i thought the internet had everything
06:23<MonkeyDrone>i'm sure it's out there somewhere, the internet is like a blackhole. You gotta go deep, not just the tip :P
06:30<MonkeyDrone>hahaha shit, i just locked myself out of my own vps server
06:30<MonkeyDrone>sigh*...
06:30<Samu>http://www.nbprice.ru/catalog/notebooks/compaq-presario-12xl403-6.htm
06:30<Samu>thx russia
06:31<MonkeyDrone>lol
06:31<MonkeyDrone>wow, that looks old school
06:31<MonkeyDrone>you can kill someone with it
06:32<MonkeyDrone>how heavy is it?
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06:33<Samu>not sure, a bit heavy
06:36<Flygon_>That's not a laptop, that's a weapon
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06:43<Samu>3.3 Kg
06:44<Samu>i ran a few benchmarks on it
06:44<Samu>it's the slowest thing I've tested
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06:45<Samu>superpi 1m - 189 seconds
06:47<Samu>wPrime 32m - 215,931 seconds
06:49<Samu>funny results from old hardware I got here
06:49<Samu>Pentium 4 at 2.4 GHz is slower than Athlon XP 1800+ at 1533 MHz in superpi and wprime
06:51<Samu>interesting results on Maxtor HDDs
06:52<MonkeyDrone>3.3kg, sounds liek a workout warmup machine ;p
06:53<MonkeyDrone>the old athlons were more powerful than the pentiums iirc
06:53<andythenorth>Alberth: model railway people I don’t mind, it’s the accountants I worry about :P
06:53<Samu>200 GB and 250 GB ATA drives are faster at QD1 and QD4 than my 1 TB WD Blue
06:53<MonkeyDrone>amd was king back then
06:53<andythenorth>$someone is going to turn up and report a bug with my trams
06:53<MonkeyDrone>the intel sabotaged the fuck out of amd , life was never the same ;p
06:53<andythenorth>‘tractive effort is much too high’
06:53<Samu>SATA
06:53<Samu>who bought Maxtor?
06:53<Samu>was it seagate?
06:53<@Alberth>add a disclaimer in the readme file :)
06:54<MonkeyDrone>andythenorth, if your tram can deliver cookies and milk everyday at 7am to my doorstop. It has enough tractive effort!
06:54<@Alberth>or name it "high power"
06:55<@Alberth>"brutal" comes to mind, but that's more V style naming
06:56<@Alberth>"XP edition" (extra power)
06:56<andythenorth>:P
06:58<Samu>there's some odd stuff with athlons as well
06:59<Samu>athlon xp 2000+ is slower in some tests in comparison with athlon xp 1800+
06:59<MonkeyDrone>were they hitting some limits in tech back at that time?
07:01<Samu>i don't remember, i think memory speeds or latency was important for athlons
07:01<@Alberth>higher number sell better
07:01<Samu>i know xp 2000+ and xp 1800+ wouldn't work on the same socket
07:01<Samu>xp 2000 needed another motherboard
07:02<Samu>xp 1800+ was my long standing gaming rig, of that I remember
07:02<Samu>i used it for 11 years
07:03<Samu>i had the 2000 and 2700 chip which i couldn't use :(
07:03<Samu>xp 2700+ always crashed
07:04<Samu>xp 2000+ was used on the mobo that was supposed to use the 2700
07:05<Wolf01>http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/zblj/Trial/8x8RC/p1150590.jpg ha! monster :(
07:05<Samu>think it was 2000 that would lock on windows, i remember, and the other would get a bsod
07:06<Samu>it was a asrock mobo, and asrock was horribad at this time
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07:06<Samu>eventually i figured out why the 2700+ was crashing, it was the USB
07:07<Samu>as long as i don't use the usb on the mobo, the system has been stable ever since
07:07<Samu>but i only figured that out when i upgraded to a core i5 2500, too late
07:08<Samu>couldn't even use a usb mouse or keyboard, t.t
07:15<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhp5i1EITxc uh oh... TT train breakdown irl
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07:22<Samu>SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 1800+: 71,609s
07:22<Samu>SuperPI 1M Athlon XP 2000+: 75,890s
07:23<Samu>keks
07:23<Samu>SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 82,338s
07:24<Samu>SuperPI 1M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 93,174s
07:25<Samu>SuperPI 1M Core i5-2500: 10,343s
07:25<Wolf01>try on i5 470 um
07:26<Samu>i thought i had the results of fx-8150
07:26<Samu>must do them
07:29-!-mescalito [~mescalito@195-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd
07:32<Samu>SuperPI 1M FX-8150: 22,141s
07:32<Samu>rip AMD
07:35<MonkeyDrone>nothing wrgon with using ps/2 mouse and keyboard back in those times ;p
07:36<Samu>i don't have results for xp 2700+ :(
07:36<Samu>don't have access to that system here
07:37<andythenorth>cargo cargos cargos
07:37<andythenorth>I have blue tarps
07:37<andythenorth>used for ENSP, FMSP
07:37<andythenorth>should I colour code them for different cargos?
07:37<andythenorth>o_O
07:41<Samu>wPrime 32M FX-8150: 10,085s
07:41<Samu>wPrime 32M Core i5-2500: 11,294s
07:41<Samu>wPrime 32M Athlon XP 2000+: 110,906s
07:42<Samu>wPrime 32M Athlon XP 1800+: 121,359s
07:42<Samu>wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.40 GHz: 158,417s
07:42<Samu>wPrime 32M Pentium 4 2.00 GHz: 188,211s
07:43<Samu>wPrime 32M Celeron 1000 MHz: 215,931s
07:44<Samu>this time around xp 2000 is faster than xp 1800
07:45<Samu>Pentium 4 really looks odd
07:45<Samu>was it really that bad?
07:46<Samu>it didn't feel that slow, it seemed equivalent to the athlons
07:47<Samu>at least they got SSE2
07:47<Samu>athlon don't
07:59<Wolf01>I don't know andy... it would be cool to distinguish them
08:01<Samu>ah, here it is http://ark.intel.com/products/27305/Mobile-Intel-Celeron-Processor-1_00-GHz-256K-Cache-133-MHz-FSB
08:02<Samu>Tualatin-256
08:02<andythenorth>Wolf01: there are at least blue, red, and some kind of green colour that could be used
08:02<Samu>codename
08:04<Wolf01>I don't have any clue on which colour could fit which cargo
08:04<Wolf01>I only know bright orange for utility vehicles :P
08:04<andythenorth>:P
08:05<andythenorth>I can just test now
08:05<Wolf01>Meh... it's not really hot today, maybe 28-30°C, but there's a fucking mist!
08:05<Samu>The Tualatin-based Pentium III had shown superior performance compared to the fastest Willamette-based Pentium 4, and even the Thunderbird-based Athlons
08:05<Samu>now those pentium 4 results make more sense
08:05<Samu>thx wikipedia
08:08<andythenorth>hmm
08:08<andythenorth>hax using a ‘TARP’ cargo label?
08:08<andythenorth>or do it ‘properly’ :P
08:08<Flygon_>Hell, Pentium IIIs were the basis for the Core series
08:08<Flygon_>And thus the i series
08:09<Flygon_>P4 was just... bad
08:09-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
08:11<Samu>I see, I was wondering why celeron at 1000 MHz was getting 215,931s, but pentium 4 at 2000 was getting 188,211s, not even half
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08:20<Flygon>I have zero idea why they ever bothered with P4
08:20<Flygon>It was a trainwreck from the very beginning
08:20<Flygon>And it was obvious to everyone that it was physically impossible to gigahertz your way out of speed inefficiencies
08:20<sim-al2>The CPU?
08:20<Flygon>Yeah
08:21<sim-al2>Oh, but I guess they thought they could do it when they started
08:22<andythenorth>hmm
08:22<andythenorth>maybe for generic cargo I should use a 2CC tarp
08:23<andythenorth>and player can choose colour :P
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08:25<Samu>they say it's 31ºC here, but my room is at 29,2ºC
08:27<MonkeyDrone>room temps should belower
08:27<MonkeyDrone>good insulation on the walls
08:27<Samu>http://www.foreca.com/Portugal/Lagos
08:28<MonkeyDrone>but don't worry, given time it will heat up ;p
08:28<MonkeyDrone>andythenorth, it is always nice when players can chose colors :D
08:30<Wolf01>If only it would be possible to set a different colour for each consist
08:30<Wolf01>or group
08:30<Wolf01>Just group would be enough
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08:35<andythenorth>'patch for that’
08:35<Wolf01>NotRoadTypes first
08:36<andythenorth>yair
08:36<andythenorth>shout when you have a patch to test
08:36<andythenorth>:P
08:36<andythenorth>or a repo
08:37<andythenorth>grey gravel for unknown bulk cargos?
08:37<andythenorth>or I have to stick a tarp over?
08:37*andythenorth would rather not :P
08:51<andythenorth>maybe someone could find all the bulk cargos that miss graphics in Road Hog? o_O
08:52<andythenorth>known: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/graphics_processor/graphics_constants.py#L23
08:53<andythenorth>known cargo labels... https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels
08:58*andythenorth will go shopping, and hope some elves sort this out :P
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09:34<MonkeyDrone>hey guys, any idea on how to change a variable like distribution_pax on a running server in ottd?
09:38<MonkeyDrone>figured it out
09:40-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
09:40<Samu>2044, 2016
09:40<Samu>7 years to reach 2051 for otviai
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09:50<drac_boy>hi
09:50<drac_boy>been a while :)
09:51-!-Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
09:51<drac_boy>hi wormnest .. any good weather in netherland?
09:53<Wormnest>hi drac_boy the weather isn´t too bad here maybe a little bit too warm
09:53<drac_boy>heh guess we two have it similar then .. I'm in east canada
09:55<drac_boy>up to anything atm or just a lazy day?
09:55<Wormnest>nice :)
09:55<Wormnest>ehh ntm running another test run of nonocab to see if there´s any more problems I need to fix
09:55<@Rubidium>depends on how east in Canada you are, I guess ;)
09:55<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfvknr8h5 <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth
09:56*Rubidium also wonders where "east Canada" starts
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10:02<drac_boy>have fun with that debugging then wormnest :)
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10:02<drac_boy>I'm still very slowly working on a small grf set .. otherwise not too much else to say
10:02*drac_boy on a note is looking to order a few oversea rail books in late august or so
10:03<drac_boy>one of them should be interesting .. its re L D Porta and his steam locomotive developments
10:08<Wormnest>thanks and good luck with finishing your NewGRF
10:09<drac_boy>np
10:16<drac_boy>interesting list alberth
10:17<@Alberth>it is?
10:18<@Alberth>just two lists merged after removing the non-bulk cargoes
10:29<drac_boy>anyway going off for a bit now..might be back later tho ;)
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11:07<@Alberth>(15:55:59) Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfvknr8h5 <-- bulk cargoes for andythenorth
11:09<andythenorth>Alberth: thanks :)
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11:11<@Alberth>some are obsolete, not sure if you wanted them
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11:16<andythenorth>I took the simple solution, I banned most of them from dump trucks
11:16<@Alberth>:)
11:18<andythenorth>I could provide recolouring if someone worked out the colours to use
11:19<andythenorth>some of them should be covered cargos anyway, not for dump trucks
11:26<@Alberth>nuts doesn't have colours?
11:26<@Alberth>although some are, euhm, "interesting" :)
11:27<@Alberth>I like that, as it makes it very obvious what cargo is being carried, but not everybody likes that
11:27<andythenorth>I am sticking to ‘realism’ for cargos :)
11:27<andythenorth>parameter: cartoon mode
11:29<V453000>today I am working on something so retrded that I need the windows magnified ._.
11:29<V453000>NUTS has CC color stripes and wagon base colours to identify cargoes
11:29<V453000>some wagons have no CC though, yes ... but that is rare
11:30<@Alberth>no magnify application in windows?
11:30<V453000>that's what I am using
11:30<V453000>ah typo
11:31<V453000>I meant magnifier :)
11:31*andythenorth will explain the unsupported cargos as ‘gameplay’ reasons
11:32<andythenorth>actually I can’t be arsed to pick 6 colours from the palette for them
11:32<V453000>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki/GearCargoSystem
11:33<andythenorth>what does all mean? :)
11:34<V453000>outer color is wagon
11:34<V453000>inner color is cargo
11:35<V453000>first image is all cargoes available (never seen together), other images are possible configurations
11:35<V453000>I made this for myself so I could quickly get colours for all the possible variants, yet have unique sets of colours for all things
11:36<V453000>PART hoppers are going to only have about 5 models, all just for wagon variety like self discharging hoppers, normal hoppers, some extra large hoppers, ... and cargoes will be done by recolour
11:36<V453000>it's hugely file size saving, and future proof
11:36<Samu>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/titan-x-pascal - rip AMD
11:36<V453000>in case you get some stupid idea that you want 10 new cargoes for FIRS, I just add more recolour rules for them
11:36<V453000>no new sprites
11:36<Samu>then again... $1200
11:36<V453000>where if I want to update NUTS to work with new cargoes, I would shit myself sooner
11:37<V453000>I am probably going to buy the new titan X yeah
11:39<V453000>but not reference card, some aftermarket like from evga
11:39*andythenorth makes offer
11:40<V453000>and the rx 480 can probably hold it's own vs. gtx 1060
11:40*andythenorth will add bulk cargos if someone provides the palette indexes for the remap
11:40<andythenorth>:P
11:40<V453000>andythenorth: I am going to do that sooner or later anyway
11:40<V453000>if you want to wait, it shall be done
11:40<Samu>rx 480 loses to gtx 1060
11:40<andythenorth>yours won’t be super-realism V453000 :P
11:40<V453000>ok Samu :D
11:40<V453000>andythenorth: the cargo itself kind of is
11:41<Samu>only beats it with performance/price category
11:41<andythenorth>I demand you actually make real fertiliser and crap
11:41<V453000>real fertiliser = brown shit?
11:41<V453000>that's what I mean Samu
11:41<andythenorth>I have 14 remaps already, but got bored of counting with my fingers on the palette in photoshop
11:41<V453000>XD
11:43<V453000>what does real fertiliser look like?
11:43<V453000>white shit?
11:43<V453000>brown shit?
11:43<V453000>https://www.google.cz/search?q=fertiliser&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd7Je5uIzOAhVEUBQKHQCBCPwQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=983#imgrc=rE7bV-ZtnqgO3M%3A
11:43<V453000>blue shit is legit
11:43<V453000>https://www.google.cz/search?q=fertiliser&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjd7Je5uIzOAhVEUBQKHQCBCPwQ_AUICCgB&biw=1920&bih=983#imgrc=LppTTxxd7LCMOM%3A
11:45<Samu>poor amd, they can never win at anything anymore now
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'd probably go with grey, but it should be transported in covered wagons anyway
11:46<V453000>yeah should would might
11:46<andythenorth>yair
11:47<V453000>it's nice if players can see if the wagon is full or empty, and of which cargo
11:47<andythenorth>+0.7
11:47<andythenorth>for open wagons, I would like each cargo to be unique
11:48<andythenorth>that is at least hard, if not ~impossible :P
11:48<andythenorth>if you use a covered hopper, no cargo sprites for you
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could see it while loading, and close the hopper during travelling
11:50<V453000>while it's loading you have a lot of other ways to identify it, like station sprites/name etc
11:50<V453000>on the tracks you don't
11:50<V453000>that's the most important place
11:51<V453000>BUT, PART is going to have some boxcars, too
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>make a coloured stripe along the wagon that changes on refit
11:51<V453000>they will be unique so you know what is there, but still
11:51<V453000>well, coloured stripe doesn't really tell what's inside
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>it won't show empty or full
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>but it makes the cargo easily recognizable
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>and if you don't know in which direction your full and empty vehicles are travelling, you probably have different problems :p
11:52<V453000>to some degree, sure yes
11:52<V453000>they can be going in many various directions
11:52<V453000>like when you have 4 different food plants supplying 20 cities
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>then you can still click on it to find out if it's full or empty
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>i don't really understand why that's a problem that needs to be solved
11:53<V453000>it's not game breaking, but it is extremely convenient to see
11:53<V453000>on first sight, no clicking
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>you could have the empty wagons run open
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>and only close the full ones
11:54<V453000>yes, indeed
11:54<V453000>the full ones are the only problem, really
11:56*andythenorth has tankers that recolour for cargo
11:56<andythenorth>but not empty/full
11:56<andythenorth>because eh, don’t care about that :)
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>exactly.
11:57<V453000>sure, just realism > stylized graphics/gameplay
11:57<V453000>for me it's the opposite
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: well, the optimization problem here is to find stylized graphics without sacrificing too much realism
12:01<V453000>obviously
12:01<andythenorth>I am repainting trams, using more of the good sprites and killing the bad sprites
12:01<andythenorth>but they now look a bit ‘same'
12:02<V453000>speaking of stylized graphics, I probably decided today that BRIX will not be white
12:02<V453000>probably green
12:02<Samu>bullying, huh?
12:03<andythenorth>V453000: good call
12:04<Samu>https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=munich+bullying&view=detailv2&&id=EDFE8FB0E9E20917CBF0AEACC06EAD24478670EB&selectedIndex=0&ccid=PNEe8T6T&simid=290458446557&thid=HG.290458446557&ajaxhist=0
12:04<Samu>lesson learned: don't bully
12:05<V453000>andythenorth: I got to the conclusion when trying to make snow XD
12:05<andythenorth>ha ha
12:05<V453000>I had some doubts previously
12:05<V453000>but yeah
12:07<V453000>it probably still classifies as stylized as fuck though :P
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12:09<V453000>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02pWbr9bgbA&feature=youtu.be
12:11<andythenorth>hurgh
12:11*andythenorth ponders CC crap
12:11<andythenorth>when to use what
12:27<NGC3982>http://skarmdump.henjoh.se/what-a-mess.PNG
12:28<ST2>that's a Pun (ninghead) xD
12:30<NGC3982>:)
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen worse messes
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12:44<Wolf01>andythenorth, do you have any suggestion about the repository? I have one slow, unreliable, home-based, svn server which I use for this kind of stuff
12:45<andythenorth>can we put it on coop?
12:45<andythenorth>dunno
12:45<andythenorth>you want git or hg?
12:45<Wolf01>never used hg, and git on readonly
12:47<MonkeyDrone>for private repositories, bitbucket works
12:47<MonkeyDrone>unlimited private repos :D
12:48<Wolf01>don't need to be private, we aren't kids
12:48<MonkeyDrone>well github it is then
12:48<Wolf01>and the game is open source :P
12:49<MonkeyDrone>it sure is :P well i was just throwing it out there
12:49<MonkeyDrone>why not use github and use your own svn server? unless you got raid on it, it's quiet risky
12:58<andythenorth>Wolf01: setting up a repo was actually the major thing that put me off starting a ‘proper’ patch :P
12:59<andythenorth>I could try and make one on devzone, but I always do it wrong
12:59<andythenorth>also I don’t really like hg
12:59<Wolf01>yeah, too many things to configure and keep in sync.. at least if you want to do things in the right way
13:00<andythenorth>I have an account on bitbucket
13:01<andythenorth>or we could use github
13:01<andythenorth>probably just use github? :P
13:01<Wolf01>I automated the creation of svn repos on linux at work, but I don't have any linux here
13:01<andythenorth>also I can’t svn
13:01<Wolf01>github is fair, I don't know how to use it but I'll learn :P
13:02<Wolf01>btw, got to go, I'll come back in 2 hours
13:05<andythenorth>k
13:28<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes
14:00<@Alberth>svn is mostly checkout once, commit, and update for getting updates from the other devs, much simpler than the distributed VCSes
14:00<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_taster6.png
14:00<V453000>trees will have colours too
14:00<@Alberth>tasty brix!
14:01<@Alberth>and nice link to the train track build train too :)
14:10<Samu>2048, 2018
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14:44<Wolf01>brix \o/
14:44<Wolf01>hype for 3GB grf pack for OTTD
14:45<V453000>50MB Wolf01
14:45<V453000><3
14:46<Wolf01>:D
14:46<V453000>it will grow a bit
14:46<V453000>but still, filesize pretty good so far
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14:47<Wolf01>I'll wait for the rail set then :>
14:48<Wolf01>55% humidity :E
14:48<V453000>that will take a while
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14:49<Wolf01>I was drowning outside, I made it to home just in time
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14:59<MonkeyDrone>55% , damn....
14:59<MonkeyDrone>80% :)
15:00<MonkeyDrone>http://www.bahrainweather.gov.bh/
15:01<MonkeyDrone>90% max :D woooooooooooooo, i was outsidejogging for 1.5 hours. damn clothes got heavy really wellby the end of it
15:05<Wolf01>I managed to forgot to compress the logs... 14GB of plain text logs since 2013
15:06<Wolf01>right now is 1GB->3MB
15:06<frosch123>does not sound like irc logs :p
15:07<Wolf01>no, the webserver ones, but I should take care even for irc logs... I have 12 years of logs
15:10<Wolf01>pfff I tried again to scroll the screenshot
15:12<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^ repo link above
15:12<andythenorth>I put openttd in it :P
15:12<Wolf01>yeah, noticed it :P
15:12<Wolf01>I need to understand how git works now :D
15:14<MonkeyDrone>no one understand git xD
15:14<MonkeyDrone>well that's what my brother says, he's been using it for years :P
15:18<Wolf01>could I use both svn and git on the same working copy?
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15:22<@Alberth>https://help.github.com/articles/support-for-subversion-clients/
15:22<@Alberth>no idea if it does anything useful :)
15:22<@Alberth>I tried hg with a git repo, and that failed hopelessly
15:23<@Alberth>but hg is then a lot more complicated than svn
15:23<Wolf01>oh, yeah, I forgot I can use svn with git too
15:24<Wolf01>need to relocate then
15:25<@Alberth>I'd check out a new working copy :p
15:25<@Alberth>hmm, may be somewhat large
15:25<Wolf01>yeah, better do it
15:27<@Alberth>you could copy the working copy locally, and then switch one of them
15:29<Wolf01>nah, it bitches that the working copy has different uuid
15:30<Wolf01>I'll checkout directly from github so it shuts up
15:40<Wolf01>andy, did you forget to add some resource files? the game exits with "failed to find a sounds set"
15:43<@Alberth>openttd.cfg from the repo?
15:45<Wolf01>maybe, but I can't find it in the working copy, so it should be using the one in the user folder
15:45<Wolf01>(my ottd installation has it's own one, because it's portable)
15:47<Wolf01>it has soundsset = "NoSound"
15:48<@Rubidium>the repository misses files
15:49<Wolf01>the cat may have eat them
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15:56<andythenorth>Wolf01: I just cloned the openttd repo, copied everything, and pushed it
15:56<Wolf01>no clue
15:57<Wolf01>I just checked out, changed the project configuration to include libs etc and compiled
15:57<V453000>andythenorth: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/BRIX/BRIX_taster6.png
15:59<andythenorth>V453000: your iron ore mine sucks :P
15:59<andythenorth>crap
15:59<V453000>XD
16:00<V453000>it's copied from your iron ore mine isn't it
16:00<andythenorth>yeah
16:00<andythenorth>mine’s crap too
16:01<Wolf01>factorio time... I have a rocket to build
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: colour is fine, but needs some texture...
16:01<V453000>Wolf01: just one?
16:01<Wolf01>yes, one
16:01<V453000>no texture for you
16:02<V453000>I like it ultra clean
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16:03<@Alberth>transparent texture would work
16:03<@Alberth>or a completely green one
16:03<@Alberth>just 1x1 pixel :p
16:03<V453000>wat
16:04<@Alberth>texture gets stretched over the entire area right?
16:04<V453000>it can
16:04<@Alberth>so one green pixel would be enough to cover it all
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16:04<V453000>not exactly, the slopes are actually each different color
16:05<V453000>it is slightly visible
16:05<V453000>it's just pushing the contrast between hills to make it easier to orientate in
16:05<V453000>it might be a bit too much
16:06<@Alberth>ah, good point
16:06<V453000>but they do come from 1 colour node
16:06<V453000>so if you replaced that node with a texture, it would automatically re-apply the contrast
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: well i was not REALLY expecting you to follow my suggestion :p
16:06<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: good
16:06<V453000>go draw CETS. :>
16:08<@Alberth>hmm, too much? for me, from the hole near the NW edge of the lake all the way to the top looks like vertical walls to me
16:09<@Alberth>maybe it's the lack of stuff on the edges?
16:09<V453000>idk :)
16:10<@Alberth>,maybe not enough contrast between the sun-facing and non-sub facing sides?
16:11<V453000>I think there is shitload of contrast already
16:11<@Alberth>at the SE side of the lake definitely
16:12<andythenorth>needs beaches
16:12<andythenorth>is the problem
16:12<andythenorth>landscape is fine
16:12<V453000>h8 biches
16:12<@Alberth>biches on the beaches!
16:14<Wolf01>cluster grenades hailstorm, what a wonderful weapon, is even more effective than the ion cannon mod
16:14<andythenorth>meh
16:14<andythenorth>2CC
16:14<Samu>2050, 2019
16:14<Samu>last year for otviai
16:15<andythenorth>I have 2CC-ed a tram
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>has milek7 requested more company colours yet? :p
16:15<andythenorth>and now I’ll have to do all of that type of tram in 2CC :P
16:15<andythenorth>and the trucks
16:16<andythenorth>Road Hog is such a classic failed project
16:17<V453000>wat
16:17<andythenorth>I set simple goal, like ‘finish 6 trams'
16:18<andythenorth>and that means redrawing about 20 trams :P
16:18<andythenorth>making some better highlights lameness in the rest :P
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>isn't that how the world works nowadays? "kill 6 terrorists", ignoring the fact that you create 20 new terrorists that way
16:19<andythenorth>perhaps
16:20<V453000>smells like politics
16:21<V453000>allahu akbar anus?
16:21<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's just like (software) bugs or features
16:26<V453000>oh just read about machete shit in germany
16:26<V453000>:(
16:27<Wolf01>yes, it's getting worse every day...
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16:28<Wolf01>but not only because IS/religion/immigrants, even normal people are overreacting for little things
16:29<V453000>well yeah because the politicians are doing nothing
16:29<V453000>let's invite everybody to europe, we don't even need passport controls, "we can make it"
16:29<@Rubidium>they are doing nothing?
16:29<V453000>it's so much easier to say than actually set up proper border control
16:30<@Rubidium>they're a major cause of the fear
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>wtf is a passport control going to do? it's not going to say "terrorist" in there...
16:30<V453000>well, what do you know, but in general letting anybody in your country/union is not a great idea
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>maybe, but keeping them out is an even worse idea...
16:31<V453000>how?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>because that's how 800 people drown in the sea, creating resentments in their 15000 relatives
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>out of those 15000, 20 might become terrorists
16:31<V453000>well why did they travel on the sea then?
16:32<V453000>if they go illegally to cross a border over sea, then?
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>how did something being illegal ever stop anyone?
16:32<V453000>well then with that point we can discuss about anything :D
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>if you make drugs illegal, the drugs don't disappear. if you make homosexuality illegal, the homosexuals don't disappear, ...
16:33<V453000>I am not saying they should disappear, I do not even say we should not accept them, but in a controlled, clear way
16:33<V453000>not let 2 million people come, nobody knows how many, nobody knows where from, nobody knows anything
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but there won't be a controlled clear way, as long as everybody gets sidetracked by an "all or nothing" discussion
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16:34<@Alberth>not that you'd ever get agreement on a number
16:34<V453000>well in France it's probably already too late and the shit will spread so beating dead horse
16:34<@Alberth>or you couldclose the border if you reached it
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>the fact that it has nothing to do with the 2 million who came last year is totally disappearing. the guy in france was in the country for decades
16:35<andythenorth>France is years of colonial history
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16:35<Eddi|zuHause>no amount of passport controls would have stopped him
16:35<andythenorth>including brutal civil war in its mediterranean colonies
16:35<V453000>you should close the border immediately, create refuge camps for them in neutral area, solve security shit, open border as decided
16:35<Samu>remove the internet from europe
16:36<Samu>problem solve!
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>there is no such thing as a neutral area
16:36<V453000>well then near the border you get the point
16:36<ST2>nah nah, remove Samu's internet - AMD and Nvidia will tank ^^
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>and concentrating hundreds of thousands into a few single camps is only going to make it worse
16:36<ST2>thank*
16:37<V453000>do they run away from war or not
16:37<V453000>peaceful camp should be ok
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>how is a camp with a hundred thousand people who have nothing to do all day filled with people from opposing factions ever going to be "peaceful"
16:38<@Rubidium>so Nice... guy was in France since 2005, immigrated via normal channels. Paris of november last year... most from France and Belgium (as in born there)
16:38<V453000>well if they aren't peaceful then let them fight it out wherever they want but not in our cities
16:38<@Rubidium>so, in my opinion the best way to prevent terrorism in Europe is to kick all the Europeans out
16:38<V453000>also, I don't get how can islam not be prohibited the same way as nazis
16:39<sim-al2>V, try to ban Christainity and see what happens
16:39<V453000>I am not banning it in their countries, in ours at least
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>because islam is not a racist organization that organized a mass murder of millions of people?
16:39<andythenorth>is there a new version of godwin? o_O
16:39<V453000>and in the last years there hasn't been many christian warriors exploding in train stations etc afaik
16:40<V453000>it's not Eddi|zuHause ?
16:40<V453000>well then ok
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it might as well flare up again in northern ireland... it's not that long ago and tensions are still high
16:40<andythenorth>all through my childhood catholics were blowing up protestants and protestants were blowing up catholics
16:40<@Rubidium>V453000: the Christians did it a few hundred years ago on a much more massive scale
16:40<V453000>yes Rubidium, hundred years ago
16:41<V453000>I'm not saying christianity has no bad things, it has shitloads
16:41<@Rubidium>V453000: you think people lost their "animal instincts" since then?
16:41<andythenorth>there are about 2.7m muslims in UK, and about 10 have commited terrorist acts on UK soil
16:42<@Rubidium>andythenorth: and Northern Irelanders?
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>last information i have is around 5% muslims in germany
16:43<V453000>France is like 10%? more?
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>the strange thing is, anti-foreigner and anti-muslim resentments are highest in the areas that have the fewest foreigners and muslims
16:43<andythenorth>Rubidium I didn’t look it up
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>so as far as i can tell, the solution is to get more muslims
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16:43<andythenorth>silly debate, ends up arguing for ‘good’ and ‘bad’ terrorists :P
16:43*andythenorth back to trams
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>to a point where it's a common daily sight
16:44<V453000>yeah Eddi|zuHause that totally works in France XD
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>it totally doesn't work in france because of ghetto-ization, i.e. the individual groups stay on their own, and don't mix
16:45<Wolf01>I just noticed that biters see me as an illegal alien terrorist which blows up things :(
16:45<V453000>it's not like multicultural integration works any different anywhere else
16:46-!-Arveen [~Arveen@ip-109-91-72-28.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
16:46<@Rubidium>V453000: that's the point a bit, the integration in France (and Belgium) is kinda failing
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>well, yeah, it's not like the european countries are fundamentally different from each other, so the problems will be very similar throughout
16:46<V453000>well it's not like the muslims want to integrate, they just shut up until they have majority in an area
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>but still, the key point is this mixing in with the population that is already there. that is the real problem that needs to be solved
16:47<@Rubidium>V453000: weird, the muslims I know are fairly well integrated; okay, they don't go to church on Sunday, but neither do I...
16:48<V453000>of course, you probably don't go to work in a nogo zone or muslim ghetto
16:49<@Rubidium>true, though I live in the neighbourhood with most crime (of 2014 in the Netherlands)
16:49<Wolf01>they don't go to church because they go to the mousquee
16:50<@Rubidium>and the mosque is well.. 400-500 meters from here
16:51<V453000>nice so about 500 metres from you someone might be saying kill the infidels? :P
16:52<@Rubidium>unlikely, but yeah... but so could they in the church
16:52<@Rubidium>after all, it's all in the explanation of (roughly) the same story
16:53<V453000>idk I might be racist but I don't feel like tolerating islam
16:53<V453000>amen
16:54<@Rubidium>ah well, I can't stand fundamentalists of basically any religion
16:55<V453000>point
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>even non-religious fundamentalists
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>like fundamental capitalists. or fundamental feminists.
17:00<andythenorth>Richard Stallman
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>fundamental freesoftwareist?
17:03<andythenorth>so
17:03<andythenorth>livestock wagons are grey in Iron Horse
17:03<andythenorth>but livestock trucks are 2CC in Road Hog
17:03*andythenorth wants consistency
17:03<andythenorth>grey or 2CC?
17:04<V453000>1CC and use 2nd CC for cargo stuff
17:04<V453000>like containers etc
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>can't you just recolour the grey?
17:04<andythenorth>yes
17:04<V453000>different amount of shades likely
17:04<andythenorth>not 50
17:04<andythenorth>but is grey better than 2CC?
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17:05<andythenorth>mostly I care that things are fast to find in buy menu
17:05<andythenorth>so differentiation is good
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't mind the grey, but a bit of 2nd CC is nice as wel
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>l
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17:17<andythenorth>maybe matching IH and RH is a slavish consistency
17:17*andythenorth might not bother
17:19<Samu>dec 2050, last month
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17:26<andythenorth>oops
17:26<andythenorth>bedtime
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17:28<Samu>finished!
17:29<Samu>next trio
17:30<Samu>terron !
17:32<Samu>just started original/npf/yapf terron
17:32<Samu>ships
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19:01<drac_boy>if theres anyone from uk here...I have to ask but how common did you think the gresley (I believe that it was his?) 3-cylinder assembly was? I can't exactly recall seeing many locomotives with single center cylinder photo-wise
19:01<drac_boy>I do recall seeing quite a number of earlier 4-cylinder steam but thats a different matter tho
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>is there not a wikipedia page on every engine design that ever existed, including the number of units produced?
19:21<Wolf01>'night
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22:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid this level of incoherent babble exceeds my abilities https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75076
22:41<ST2>"unfortunately I have no idea how to even start compiling" says it all :(
22:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but a) he's adressing "pi" (did he mean to reply to some thread) and b) why would you need to compile to change settings.ini? and c) loads of other things
22:42<ST2>"could compile a version where you can change all patch settings of an inflight game" it's something not from this world, but would be AWESOME xD
22:43<ST2>well, imo, a typical case of "no idea of what's talking about" ^^
22:44<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence might be a case of wrong translation
22:45<ST2>never tried Spring Patch Pack, but I guess he wants a GUI thingy for all patch settings
22:46<ST2>anyway, fill the man needs "Mod can you please move this to the Spring Patch Pack thread"
22:46<ST2>xD
22:48<Eddi|zuHause>i'm at a point where i feel that a snarky will totally miss the target, and a proper reply is nearly impossible
22:48<ST2>you're right on there :)
22:50<Eddi|zuHause>+reply
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 25 00:00:16 2016