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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-01

---Logopened Mon Aug 01 00:00:28 2016
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04:57<V453000>do yoiu have some foundations to sell?
04:57*V453000 needs to obtain foundations
04:57<V453000>methods other than labour are preferable
04:58<Wolf01>I have Asimov's foundation, but I won't sell it :P
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05:02<V453000>well dayum
05:02<Wolf01>I also have headache :(
05:03<V453000>ok, plan: fix headache, it will make you realize you want to sell foundations
05:03<V453000>I require all 104 of them, ty
05:07<Wolf01>They are only 7 :(
05:09<V453000>ok new deal, I will be happy with but they have to be unique, no duplicates
05:09<V453000>that ok?
05:09<V453000>just go automate some
05:10<Wolf01>Also, they are the italian version
05:11<V453000>ok I will accept any foundation origin
05:14<@Alberth>so what is exactly a foundation?
05:14<Wolf01>It could be a different thing for each person
05:15<V453000>the shit that appears when you build something on a slope
05:15<@Alberth>in the past 10 minutes, it obviously was :)
05:16<@Alberth>well, you're much better at visual shit than me, I am guessing you don't need help there. That thus raises the problem what part do you need?
05:18<V453000>it actually doesn't really carry any visual requirements
05:18<V453000>you just place tile masks in the right fashion for 666 hours and you are done suddenly
05:18<@Alberth>devilish :p
05:19<V453000>nah I 'll do it in the evening but FUCK
05:20<@Alberth>assuming there is a system in it, I am happy to generate 104 cases, but I need to know what "a case" is here
05:20<@Alberth>ie what text output do you need?
05:22<V453000>nah don't bother :D
05:23<V453000>just bitching randomly
05:27<@Alberth>yeah, making 104 similar things isn't much fun
05:27<V453000>I'll make the 20 unique pieces and then put the 104 together but still, yeah
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06:01<Samu>2018, 2043
06:03<MonkeyDrone>o/ afternoon ladies
06:03<V453000>yo fmg
06:04<MonkeyDrone>third interview with the government tomorrow for the government job, shit is looooking goood :D
06:04<MonkeyDrone>can't wait to get a job where there's no work to be done, bahahhaha
06:05<Samu>expect the worst
06:06<MonkeyDrone>actual work to do? xD
06:07<MonkeyDrone>i've seen how it goes here
06:07<Alkel_U3>Like pkay DF overtime for job?
06:07<MonkeyDrone>7:30am - 9:00am (breakfast time), 9-11 (work time) 11-12(prayer break) 12-2(lazy man's work) 2-> go home
06:08<Alkel_U3>play, dammit
06:08<MonkeyDrone>Alkel_U3, government job doesn't care about OT much , it depends on the department. If I gets it, why the hell not, i mean i expect them to have 100Mbps fiber :D
06:09<Alkel_U3>That job desription is kinda close to what I'm having during summer
06:09<MonkeyDrone>I'm thinking of buying this laptop now :D
06:10<MonkeyDrone>Alkel_U3, hehe it's nice ain't it :p
06:10<Alkel_U3>Sure :-)
06:11<MonkeyDrone>that laptop or i add in 45% more price on top of that and get an IPS screen...yarrggh
06:12<Samu>that gpu :(
06:12<Alkel_U3>it's just a tad too far to the coffee machine
06:13<MonkeyDrone>i'm not looking for a pro gaming laptop xD
06:13<MonkeyDrone>i got my pc for that <3
06:13<MonkeyDrone>laptop just for dem easy on the system games like Factorio, oTTD, rimworld etc
06:13<MonkeyDrone>and fuck DF, that game is frustrating :P
06:14<MonkeyDrone>i upgraded it's learning curve difficulty to 'Brutal'.
06:14<Samu>what is DF?
06:14<MonkeyDrone>Demon Fortress
06:15<MonkeyDrone>Dwarf Fortress*
06:15<MonkeyDrone>but they might as well be god damn demons
06:15<Hiddenfunstuff>DF mentioned!
06:15<Samu>i don't know much about laptops
06:15<Hiddenfunstuff>Theres no machine that will run endgame fortress
06:15<Alkel_U3>That gpu is fine unlesss you need to play Maul of Dooty 40 in 8k and won't fry the battery
06:16<MonkeyDrone>Hiddenfunstuff, no, the problem is not the system
06:17<Alkel_U3>Hiddenfunstuff: there is, problem is liquid helium is hella expensive :D
06:17<MonkeyDrone>Hiddenfunstuff, the problem is over population. What you need is to send out expeditions far into the north. Far far into the north, and wage a few wars and then let disease take care of the rest including famine
06:17<Hiddenfunstuff>yeah, control your cats and dont flood your fortress
06:17<MonkeyDrone>well they did come out with 64bit version of the game
06:17<Hiddenfunstuff>or dont start building any kind of Project FTW type things where you literally empty out magma lakes onto your front door
06:18<MonkeyDrone>I can assume it might help with the number crunching some what
06:18<Alkel_U3>Hiddenfunstuff: also, you leave MonkeyDrone alone, he's not far enough to meet you, yet :D
06:18<MonkeyDrone>lol, magma pool, just like them dwarf hippies like it
06:18<Alkel_U3>your name :P
06:18<Hiddenfunstuff>How else you gonna destroy those zombie sponges?
06:19<Hiddenfunstuff>drown them in magma
06:19<MonkeyDrone>Hiddenfunstuff, you can say I started 2 days ago, I only learned some stuff yesterday with Alkel_U3 help. Still trying to wrap my head around things
06:19<Hiddenfunstuff>Just dont dig too deep yet, Because you'll find an circus that goes on and on. it never stops
06:19<MonkeyDrone>I still need to dig deep, need metal!
06:19<Alkel_U3>but dig deep, that's where trasure is :-)
06:19<MonkeyDrone>just got to the stone layer, i assume metal is somewhere deeper
06:20<MonkeyDrone>treasure, zombies and dragons i bet
06:20<Hiddenfunstuff>When you hit the magma sea, Dont dig deeper unless you have proper failsafes and isolation mechanisms ready, such as blowing up your fortress separate all around
06:20<Alkel_U3>don't spoil it for him
06:20<Hiddenfunstuff>I try not to
06:21<MonkeyDrone>my dwarves will bathe in the sea of magma and be untouched by fire :P
06:21<MonkeyDrone>*wink wink*
06:21<Hiddenfunstuff>You'll find the FUN eventually
06:21<Alkel_U3>having to start multiple times and learning from mistakes is a part of the game :-)
06:21<MonkeyDrone>forgot my bag in the car, brb, before it melts...
06:21<Hiddenfunstuff>I casted a obsidian fortress once
06:22<Alkel_U3>well, I haven't tried that yet. Yet.
06:23<Hiddenfunstuff>I also made a ice fortress
06:23<Hiddenfunstuff>Then the fucking elephants came..
06:24<MonkeyDrone>back, last time i left my bag in the car...I went out the next day, opened up my laptop at the coffee shop and my screen was all rainbow'ish from the heat
06:24<MonkeyDrone>took it an hour or two to go back to normal, woooo, no permanent damage from what it already suffers from :P
06:25<MonkeyDrone>Hiddenfunstuff, didn't you have spike traps and weapon traps to kill them elephants?
06:25<Hiddenfunstuff>No, I built a magma pit around my fortress and sealed off every entrance to it
06:26<MonkeyDrone>the elephants wandered off after a while?
06:26<Hiddenfunstuff>and 1 draw bridge that leads to an trader area and then theres yet another drawbridge forwards that lead to the actual fortress
06:26<Hiddenfunstuff>sort of an airlock
06:26<Hiddenfunstuff>No, They butchered everything that came out of the fortress most of the time
06:26<Hiddenfunstuff>Eventually i started dropping excess cats outside the fortress
06:26<MonkeyDrone>crossbow soldiers?
06:27<MonkeyDrone>lol, how did that turn out
06:28<Hiddenfunstuff>Eventually i accidentally flooded half of my fortress with lava during my aggressive expansion from the said lava trench
06:28<Hiddenfunstuff>And thats when it murdered my CPU
06:29<MonkeyDrone>ouch, what CPU you running on?
06:29<Hiddenfunstuff>Pretty much liquid calculations and massive catplosions are the thing that murder your hardware
06:29<Hiddenfunstuff>an old i5 2500k
06:30<Alkel_U3>elephants never really gave me trouble, 30+ marksdorfs are pretty efficient at dispatching things
06:30<Hiddenfunstuff>Before i ran on an AMD Athlon 64 OC'd to like 2.8Ghz so it could've kept up with DF
06:30<Hiddenfunstuff>Were your elepahnts..normal?
06:30<Alkel_U3>like, once a dragon thought it would be funny to fly over my walls. Once.
06:31<Alkel_U3>ok, yes, normal :-)
06:31<Hiddenfunstuff>try settling on Evil area..
06:31<Alkel_U3>that's a lot of nope :D
06:31<Hiddenfunstuff>Anything left outside will eventually try to kill you
06:31<Hiddenfunstuff>Things such as elephants, dead elephants, legs.. sponges..
06:31<Alkel_U3>not neccessarily only outside
06:32<Hiddenfunstuff>I had couple cats maul few dwarves aswell
06:32<MonkeyDrone>lol da fook
06:32<MonkeyDrone>well glad to know what evil areas do :P
06:32<Hiddenfunstuff>Pretty much anything will kill you there
06:32<Hiddenfunstuff>Even if its dead
06:32<Alkel_U3>in adventurer mode I went into a tomb once. I awoke a necromancer, he animated a crab chitin in my backpack and it pushed my brainz out
06:33<MonkeyDrone>how well would a celeron run DF? :P
06:33<Hiddenfunstuff>Question is, how long
06:33<Alkel_U3>depends on how fast you die :D
06:33<MonkeyDrone>lol Alkel_U3 , cruel way to die xD
06:33<Hiddenfunstuff>depends if you get to play with liquids or not
06:33<MonkeyDrone>celerons are like dirt cheap :D
06:34<Alkel_U3>yeah, as long as the liquids stay in their original areas it's fine
06:34<MonkeyDrone>but i doubt they will handle any cpu intensive games
06:34<Alkel_U3>I run it on haswell pentium
06:34<MonkeyDrone>can't you have lava around your whole base
06:34<MonkeyDrone>andjust have gates over it
06:34<Hiddenfunstuff>if you want to play with fire
06:34<Alkel_U3>it's actually not that slow as one might think
06:34<Hiddenfunstuff>I did, and i flooded the fortress
06:35<Alkel_U3>fluid handeling isn't easy :-)
06:35<Hiddenfunstuff>I also had a masterful drwaf who was my engraver..
06:35<Hiddenfunstuff>He locked up himself into a room with one of my main smith's cats..
06:36<Hiddenfunstuff>You can quess it, he ate the cat. then the smith went absolutely nuts and butchered just about everything.. This was while the engraver had a great vision in mind and about to create something magnificent
06:36<Hiddenfunstuff>The game is brilliant, literally anything can happen
06:36<MonkeyDrone>ah looking at benchmark, celeron is a nope when you can get way betterfor alittle more :D
06:36<Alkel_U3>more and more weird shit can happen :-)
06:37<Alkel_U3>also, engraver... see third row :D
06:37<MonkeyDrone>rip poor cat
06:38<Alkel_U3>I see pentium or maybe an i3 as the good bang for the buck. But let's see what AMD conjures
06:40<MonkeyDrone>i don't know how to read AMD
06:40<MonkeyDrone>i don't know what compares to a decent i3-i5 6th gen cpus
06:40<MonkeyDrone>gooogle time
06:42<Alkel_U3>not well, especially in terms of power efficiency. I was talking about their upcomming Zen.
06:43<MonkeyDrone>aye, but them prices will be touching the sky at release
06:43<Alkel_U3>I really hope they'll bring competition for Intel again
06:44<Alkel_U3>I don't really care about release, I just want to have a good choice in, say, 2-4 years. I'm not really planning an upgrade soon, anyway :-)
06:45<MonkeyDrone> best acer has in AMD
06:50<MonkeyDrone>hehe , poor AMD, everyone is waiting for Zen. well good luck to em i guess
06:52<Hiddenfunstuff>Intel for CPU, ATI for graphics
06:55<Alkel_U3>ati? That's a bit old :P
06:55<Hiddenfunstuff>I'v been good with AMD, last Nvidia card i had was 9800GT
06:56<Hiddenfunstuff>They are just too expensive for their power
06:56<Alkel_U3>well, now that AMD GPUs are starting to get proper linux support I'll definitely consider them when I upgrade
06:57<Hiddenfunstuff>Nvidia never had it
06:58<Alkel_U3>amd drivers were unreliable and full of glitches
06:58<Hiddenfunstuff>As far as i know, nvidia never had drivers that worked
06:58<MonkeyDrone>Alkel_U3, my current laptop is AMD, one of the reasons why i don't have linux on it
06:58<MonkeyDrone>freakin nightmare x.x
06:59<MonkeyDrone>Hiddenfunstuff, don't know about nvidia and laptop support. But nvidia seems to be making drivers for linux now so maybe they have made progress recently
07:00<Alkel_U3>iirc ati support was ok-ish but then it went to heck. Well, there's intel lately, if you don't need too much power
07:00<Hiddenfunstuff>Well, last time i tried to use linux with nvidia, I didnt find any drivers that worked, without drivers i was stuck in a 4:3 resolutions...
07:01<Alkel_U3>was it a really old card on very new system?
07:01<Hiddenfunstuff>It was fairly new on its time
07:01<Hiddenfunstuff>which is, holy shit like 8 years ago
07:01<Alkel_U3>well, things changed since then
07:01<Hiddenfunstuff>Things might be different now
07:01<Hiddenfunstuff>I just never bothered with nvidia because of the price
07:01<MonkeyDrone>the world has changed in 8 years xD
07:02<MonkeyDrone>hmmmm, i've ubuntu installed as dual boot on the pc here
07:02<MonkeyDrone>any benchmark things ic an run on both OS to test it out
07:02<MonkeyDrone>and see how well it performs
07:03<MonkeyDrone>well found this,
07:06<MonkeyDrone>i should switch to linux ;P
07:06<Hiddenfunstuff>Get rid of htat cancerous windows
07:07<MonkeyDrone>i can't
07:07<Hiddenfunstuff>Atleast reduce its usage and look for alternatives
07:07<MonkeyDrone>no longer an option, sis plays too many games on here
07:07<Hiddenfunstuff>Yes that might be problematic
07:07<MonkeyDrone>yeah, should not have let her get on that horse xD
07:07<Alkel_U3>yes you can, you will be compilling kernell all the time so you won't have time for games anyway :P
07:07<MonkeyDrone>need to get her an alternate option
07:08<MonkeyDrone>ah screw the kernels, i'm not going to hardcore nerd on it :D
07:08<Alkel_U3>nah, one doesn't have to screw around like that with Ubuntu :-)
07:09<Hiddenfunstuff>compiling and more advanced programming is neither my joy, But i still daily drive a linux nowadays
07:09<Hiddenfunstuff>I still have win7 machine sitting side by side with my main rig so when i need it, i have it immediately there
07:11<MonkeyDrone>my friend and my brother both been linux'in for years
07:11<MonkeyDrone>but then again they ain't gamers
07:11<MonkeyDrone>they both like their ps4, pffft, console plebs
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08:01<Samu>any pathfinder expert?
08:02<Samu>i have a save that is utterly slow
08:02<Samu>wondering what could be done about it
08:02<Alkel_U3>I can pathfind to a nearby pub very well, but I don't suppose that's helpfull now
08:03<MonkeyDrone>i can pathfind to the bottom of a bottle very easily, but that isn't helpful as well i guess
08:03<MonkeyDrone>Preacher season ended, excellent show
08:04<Samu>oh gosh, too long to save crash
08:04<Samu>time to repeat
08:15<Samu>it should be possible to upload 4 files to the forum :(
08:15<Samu>anyway, here are two saves where the pathfinder is extremely slowing the game
08:24<@Alberth>Samu: slow save due to AI doing too much work for saving can only be solved by fixing the AI
08:26<Samu>er i mean the other pathfinder
08:26<Samu>the ships are slowing too much
08:27<Samu>only because they're lost
08:27<@Alberth>lost ships try to find a path every frame, and apparently fail every time, so they run the path finder until the limit
08:28<@Alberth>every single frame
08:28<@Alberth>good way to get loads of useless cpu calculations
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08:28<Samu>it''s usually a large group of ships with the same orders, couldn't the pathfinder be improved here?
08:29<MonkeyDrone>isn't it common practice to use buoys to avoid the ship getting lost
08:29<MonkeyDrone>and less cpu usage
08:30<Samu>pathfind as a group
08:30<Samu>instead of pathfinding for each individual ship?
08:30<@Alberth>pathfinding starts at a single starting point to a single end point
08:30<@Alberth>unless all ships are at exactly the same spot, that won't work :)
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08:31<@Alberth>but the real killer is being lost
08:31<Samu>trans AI is especially bad
08:32<Samu>he masses more ships that get lost, a huge group of lost ships, like 300 lost ships having the same orders, lost in the same place
08:32<@Alberth>fun! :p
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08:32<Samu>well, i thought about pathfinding as a group, but no idea if that is feasible
08:33<Samu>i guess not
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08:34<@Alberth>it can be done, but may cost more cpu time than doing each one individually
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08:54<Eddi|zuHause><Hiddenfunstuff> As far as i know, nvidia never had drivers that worked <-- funny to hear that, because of the past decade i only ever heard "don't use AMD, because their driver is worse than nvidia's"
09:17<Flygon>At least AMD's drivers can run games over 5 years old.
09:19<V453000>what I play old games regularly on my GTX980Ti
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10:13<Argensis>So I have a 290x in my desktop and a 840m in my laptop. I've had far more issues with the 290x. 1. BSODs while running Flash with hardware video acceleration + full screen games together, from 13.4 to 14.6? before they fixed it. 2. Linux drivers are awful for it. 3. Perf issues in games that should really not be having perf issues (XCOM2)
10:14<Argensis>So I'll more than likely be getting a nVidia card next time
10:18<Argensis>Usually I feel bad abusing station spread. And then there's times like this: (The train station didn't accept food until I built the truck stop two tiles away >_>)
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10:23<@Alberth>station placement window does tell you accepted cargoes :)
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>did you notice that your trams are too small for your tracks?
10:33<Argensis>IT does, but I'm too used to temperate climates and forgot to check for the others :p
10:35<Argensis>Eddi|zuHause, You mean visually. Nope, but it's now in cannot be unseen territory
10:35<V453000>omg zbase
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sorry :p
10:35<V453000>my eyes are dead
10:36<V453000>makes me immediately more confident about my shit
10:39<Argensis>Funnily enough, I was trying out zbase for the first time this game because the NUTS monorail looked jarring against the less sharp opengfx city :p
10:39<Argensis>Now I've got the opposite problem, the eGRVTS (and can't remember which grf the long trams are from) trams look bad against the 32bpp tracks
10:39<V453000>might be HEQS trams?
10:39<Argensis>Possibly, I do have HEQS loaded
10:47<V453000>well, original TTD graphics be best
11:00<supermop_>brio set
11:01<supermop_>thinki have brio models on a hard drive somewhere
11:01<supermop_>maybe will set those up to render overnight at work
11:02<supermop_>work uses a different rendering plug in than my old laptop tho so lot of material work to do
11:02<supermop_>V453000: you use vray for max?
11:03<V453000>mostl yes
11:07<supermop_>never used vray
11:08<supermop_>but i dont need to do photoreal at this job
11:09<V453000>well it's not like BRIX is photoreal
11:10<V453000>vray simply has a lot of tools and options you can do with it
11:10<V453000>and it works well kind of out of the box, you don't have to adjust insane amounts of shit, add GI passes etc to have an actually nice render
11:10<V453000>where with mental ray it's a pain
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11:12<supermop_>been wanting to get into maxwell, i see a lot of other architects starting to use it
11:13<V453000>maxwell is probably great
11:13<V453000>never used it though
11:15<V453000>but honestly, either of them will probably work once you get the hang of it
11:15<V453000>blender's cycles are pretty damn good but I am not sure how compatible is it with architectural software and stuff
11:20<supermop_>yeah as far as i know only a few really iconoclast arch guys use blender
11:21<supermop_>there isn't that big of a culture of open source software in architecture
11:25<supermop_>if you are lucky you can bill client for outsourcing rendering, if not either don't render, or make your interns do it for free with their old student versions
11:25<V453000>well mainly blender with it's ideology to be different as possible from those filthy corporate tools probably won't work very well with importing their shit
11:25<V453000>though I have to admit that it does import fbx pretty damn well
11:26<V453000>but idk, if I was doing achviz again I would probably try blender
11:27<supermop_>i think the standards have gotten decent recently, i dont have trouble with most software formats
11:27<supermop_>except sketchup which is worthless
11:33<V453000>well idk
11:33<V453000>the more I think about it the more I usually am undecided
11:33<V453000>I have been using max and blender for roughly similar amount of time so my amount of experience is roughly the same
11:34<V453000>I can't really tell which one is better, though max usually has all things covered, in blender you sometimes discover you simply can't do it unless you hack stuff
11:34<V453000>if blender had added some trivial yet missing features, I would no doubt say it's better
11:35<V453000>but shit like being able to switch between cameras for multiple rendering passes seem standard, yet they aren't apparently
11:35<V453000>and then there is almost always some way how to replicate it in blender through some complex system of scene setup
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11:52<Samu>1965, 2044
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12:26<supermop_>i seem to almost only get interior work so nothing that can easily get rendered to sit around as house set greeble
12:26<supermop_>other than this back yard deck, which was designed to be so minimalist it would probably look fake in game
12:28<supermop_>used this material:
12:28<supermop_>so the whole project would just look like flat grey rectangles in game
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13:26<Samu>need 356 000 gold to buy all heroes at once in hots :p
13:26<Samu>in 2 years i gathered 240k :(
13:30<@Alberth>so just one more year then
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13:56<Wolf01>I purchase heroes when they go 2-4k, I gathered about 60k and I think I still have 36k
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14:13<Samu>seems to be 30k / month
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14:28<V453000>you must play it a lot
14:29<V453000>I have played about 20-30 games max, and I felt like I am not getting anything
14:29<V453000>even though I did all the daily quests
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>daily quests are terrible, you feel like you miss out when you skip a day
14:32<V453000>well yeah it's shady
14:32<V453000>but I don't mind it tbh
14:33<V453000>I'll play it again someday
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14:33<V453000>just to check out more heroes, I played like 5
14:34<frosch123>challenge of the day: foundations
14:34<V453000>yeah frosch123
14:34<V453000>666 point reward
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>it would be much healthier if you could stack up "daily" quests so you can do 5 in a row on the weekend or so
14:35<V453000>I think you have 3 every day, maybe every week
14:35<V453000>not sure
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>there could be a cap so people don't come back after half a year of inactivity and do hundreds
14:35<frosch123>what do you mean, do you work monday to friday?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: no, but i was speaking general-population-wise
14:36<V453000>ok hots has daily quests
14:38<V453000>but yeah I have to say this hero limit saved my time
14:38<V453000>when I played dota/dota2/heroes of newerth, I would continue playing the game regularly until I tried everything
14:38<V453000>I played hots for a few evenings
14:39<V453000>partially because I didn't have that much time, but still
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14:55<V453000> /me is flattered, Albert liked my work :>
14:58<@Alberth>but yep, I generally like your work :)
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15:12<frosch123>what? did we convert albert to factorio? :p
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15:21<V453000>not that one. :)
15:21<V453000>Albert is the art director of F
15:21<frosch123>ah, that albert :)
15:22<frosch123>spanish albert instead of dutch albert
15:23<frosch123>V453000: so, did you recruit him for BRIX ?
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15:24<frosch123> <- btw. what is the reason for making the curves a faster type here?
15:24<frosch123>did factorio also copy the curve-speed anomaly from ottd?
15:25<V453000>in some old versions the curves actually traveled slower than straight tiles by some tiny amount
15:25<V453000>idk if it still exists, I don't think it does
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15:27<ElleKitty>I remember frosch123 name from somewhere...
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15:27<V453000>ofc, it's for his code on rainbow slugs
15:28<V453000>eternal fame and glory
15:28<ElleKitty>Well, I can think of something else that would give frosch123 eternal glory
15:28<V453000>better than rainbow slugs? pfft
15:29<frosch123>ElleKitty: i am not registered on any dating sites :p
15:29<V453000>"not under this nick
15:30<ElleKitty>Right =D
15:30<ElleKitty>Teehee ^_^
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15:30<ElleKitty>I overall like OTTD so thank you for all you were doing
15:30<ElleKitty>I would like to contribute more, but...
15:30<ElleKitty>I'm no good at coding =(
15:31<ElleKitty>I'm only a digital visual artist
15:31<V453000>that's like an unicorn nowadays around openttd XD
15:32<Fahrradkette>hello everybody
15:32<ElleKitty>Teehee =)
15:33<ElleKitty>If there was 3D support, it would take some time, but it wouldnt be hard for me to build up models for most-anything that already exists in the gam
15:34<V453000>frosch123: how retarded of an idea would it be to make openttd render in 3D while using the current map array?
15:34<V453000>is that possible?
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: why would that need 3d support?
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: people have been using 3d programs to model sprites for years now
15:35<frosch123>V453000: what do you mean by that?
15:35<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: yeah and after years nobody made a proper base set :D
15:35<frosch123>do you mean removing all support for newgrf with sprites?
15:35<ST2>it's already 3D - there's X and Y... the Z you manage with the distance of the screen :D
15:35<@Alberth>V453000: newgrf dynamic graphics breaks OpenGL, mostly
15:36<V453000>frosch123: switching to isometric view should be possible then?
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: what you say makes no sense
15:36<V453000>or idk the newgrf data could be placed on planes as texture XD XD
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: that's the same thing as having no 3d support at all
15:37<V453000>well if you are able to switch to it?
15:37<@Alberth>newgrf data is not the problem, the newgrf logic is the problem
15:37<frosch123>i still have no idea what you mean with rendering in 3d
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>if you use a 3d engine to only display flat objects, you're still having not a single feature more than the current 2d engine
15:37<frosch123>do you mean freeform rotation and zooming?
15:38<frosch123>doesn't that make the scales even more awkward? :p
15:38<V453000>arguably. :D
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the answer to that is the same as before. you can do that, but you have to scrap all existing newgrfs
15:38<V453000>that's bad
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>and the existing base graphics
15:39<V453000>even worse :D
15:39<ElleKitty>I will wait for the chatter to subside a bit before I share my thoughts on this >.<
15:39<frosch123>V453000: i guess compile ottd as dedicated server, and then add what is missing :p
15:39<V453000>well I am fine with sprites, but full 3D would be interesting for sure
15:40<V453000>apparently it is much harder than I thought
15:40<V453000>[per expectations XD]
15:40<frosch123>V453000: do you know any 3d game where you can zoom-out?
15:40<frosch123>as in: see really a lot of stuff
15:40<V453000>GG XD
15:40<V453000>probably not :) idk
15:40<V453000>but yeah I get your point
15:40<ElleKitty>I get your point too
15:40<ElleKitty>How about LODs...
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'd suggest train fever, but it has rather limited map size
15:41<frosch123>back in the days, when i made halflife maps, you add to run some aggressive level compression/optimiser tool, to make the map remotely playable
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>usually you add some kind of fog to limit the field of view
15:42<frosch123>yep, you essentially replace the screne with something different
15:42<Fahrradkette>If I wanted to create a scenario using gtfs data, would I use the gamescript/AI engine or does the world generation algo take parameters?
15:42<V453000>hehe yeah
15:43<V453000>BRIX = future! :D
15:43<ElleKitty>Keep in mind that the models for this game would still be rather simple. A train engine could easily be a textured box, and still look good from the game's default zoom. Computers are only getting stronger, too.
15:43<@Alberth>V453000: does what you propose see 1:49
15:43<V453000>saw that Alberth
15:43<frosch123>Fahrradkette: check the forums, i recall at least something that placed towns based on geo data
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>i think there was a patch to use geo data, but it should be possible to do via script now
15:45<@Alberth>I still ponder on a way to make town names geo-ish aware :)
15:45<V453000>I doubt people will build 3000 train networks in that game tbh Alberth
15:45<frosch123>ElleKitty: already the stake van fails with box graphics
15:45<ElleKitty>A what with van graphics?
15:45<V453000>frosch123: I went through foundations and I seem to be getting 15 unique bits, that possible?
15:46<V453000>ElleKitty: frosch means
15:46<@Alberth>V453000: you add fancy graphics to the problem, which means less time for computing
15:46<V453000>let gpu do tha lifting!
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: but you can do the fancy graphics in a thread!
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>threads solve all the problems.
15:47<ElleKitty>I could build a stake van with 6 polys, and it would look comparable to the existing 2d one
15:47<@Alberth>you can, but fancy graphics and fancy large scale rolling stock management don't go well together
15:47<frosch123>Alberth: the funny things about graphics is that you can actually multithread them
15:48<ElleKitty>frosch123 Sounds good, let's do it!
15:48<frosch123>i.e. all the noobs are happy because ottd uses all cores
15:48<V453000>titan SLI balling
15:48<frosch123>even though the game logic continues to run on only one
15:48<@Alberth>I'd push it to the gpu as much as possible :p
15:48<+glx>it's easy to use all the cores ;)
15:48<V453000>frosch123: top left is the list I got
15:48<V453000>can't find any more unique ones, you got any ideas about something else?
15:49<@Alberth>could we store newgrf relevant state into a few matrices? :p
15:49<frosch123>V453000: you are missing the inclined founations
15:49<Samu>1979, 2045
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: put the action2 resolving in a shader?
15:49<@Alberth>generate a few shaders from newgrf files
15:49<V453000>frosch123: inclined?
15:49<frosch123>those which turn a single-corner-raised-slope into a uphill slope
15:50<V453000>frosch123: are they in base_extra?
15:50<frosch123>do you know what i mean? or do you need a screenshot?
15:51<V453000>I think the latter
15:51<V453000>in other words I think I do understand the words you say but I don't see it
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i think "a few matrices" doesn't suffice, at the latest with 40+/60+ variables you get into trouble
15:52<ElleKitty>frosch123 If we had 3D, we could do all of these plateaus in 1-2 models... just saying
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: so you end up providing a copy of the whole map anyway
15:52<V453000>frosch123: or just tell me which sprite ID has the things I didn't include
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: but the "make these plateaus from 1-2 models" is exactly the part that V453000 is failing right now
15:53<V453000>I think everything from extra is in this picture, and the base should all be included in the bits
15:53<V453000>XD Eddi|zuHause
15:53<V453000>it's the exact opposite, I am just making it precisely unlike zbase
15:54<V453000>I am not even using 3D for this
15:54<V453000>cuz zbase is what, trash. Amen
15:54<ElleKitty>Eddi|zuHause If it was 3D, you would only need a couple of models, and then they would be arranged in interesting ways
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: but still, that's already what was done. just it has this intermediate step of producing the combined pictures
15:56<V453000>I see
15:56<V453000>flat at the bottom, uphill
15:57<V453000>so that's 17 total
15:57<V453000>1699 and 1700
15:57<ElleKitty>Eddi|zuHause Yes, but I'm talking about how if we had a 3D engine, we wouldnt need to burn so many sprites by hand.
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: but it was never done "by hand" in the first place. at most it was copy-pasted a bunch of times
15:58<V453000>probably just start trying to implement it ElleKitty :) if the concept has a good goal and seems to make sense, people will join and help
15:59<ElleKitty>I give up... I waited over two weeks to have a serious talk to frosch123 about this, and now I have everyone else (except frosch) jumping at me telling me how it cant be done and why it cant be done.
15:59<V453000>but if there is something I learned at openttd, if you want something to happen, never rely on others, and "I am not able to at the moment" can be changed :P
15:59<V453000>well it's not like they are against it, it's probably really just complex as fuck
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: i didn't say "it can't be done", just i think your expectation of the level of improvement is flawed
16:01<ElleKitty>Nono, it's okay, I'm giving up on this. Nevermind that you didnt care what I had to say, you had to shut me down before I even talked.
16:02<frosch123>ElleKitty: keep calm, and play factorio :)
16:02<ElleKitty>I dont want to play Factorio.
16:03<frosch123>it has many of the core gameplay aspects that ottd has as well
16:03<ElleKitty>It's frustrating that I was recommended to talk to you... And I waited two weeks for a chance... And as soon as I opened my mouth, I was swamped from all sides by whiteknights instead of just talking it out with you without any pressure
16:03<V453000>well that escalated quickly
16:04<ElleKitty>V453000 I know, thats what I'm saying
16:04<V453000>I would say patience is the most important aspect to pushing such a huge task though
16:05<ElleKitty>V453000 Once you start the task, yes, it will take some time. I was shut down before I could really speak my mind. I dont see where patience play a role here. Should I be patient and wait for the time of day or year when the whiteknights arent there to shut me down?
16:06<ElleKitty>Ugh! I didnt need this. And the nicer of you all didnt need this either -_-
16:06<V453000>jesus fucking christ, don't have time for this argumetn sorry
16:08<@Alberth>ElleKitty: if you want to ask something specific to a specific person, highlight him/her and ask the question
16:09<ElleKitty>Alberth I tried, but Eddi answered every single question that I aimed at frosch
16:10<@Alberth>others may respond, but just wait until the adressed person reacts. People don't wait here until someone asks a question, they tend to do other things, and look at the irc every now and then only
16:11<@Alberth>unless your question was fully answered of course
16:11<@Alberth>if not, you may want to indicate what you want to know more
16:11<V453000>or if you want really personal environment, personal messages are a nice thing too
16:11<ElleKitty>No, I still have as many questions as I did at the start, none were answered yet.
16:12<@Alberth>but generally you get quicker and better answers here
16:12<@Alberth>ElleKitty: "if we had X, then ..." is not a question
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16:15<ElleKitty>I didnt even get to the questions yet. I wasnt going to ask serious questions in mid of such a chaos. They wouldnt be answered seriously and analytically.
16:16<V453000>I think chaos is now silent so you can start again? :)
16:16<V453000>we can just ban Eddi|zuHause :>
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>how do you expect a discussion to go when you don't ask the actual questions to guide the discussion? of course it's going to be "chaos" from your point of view then...
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16:24<ElleKitty>Eddi|zuHause Counter-question: How were you able to "answer" each of my lines directed at frosch, if I didnt ask anything? =(
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: i am level 3 psychic, i can know (some) questions before they are asked.
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: also, frosch123 is free to chime in if my answer is bullshit
16:26<Fahrradkette>frosch123: guess I found the post you mentioned: it looks like it does almost what I want, except the routes part of gtfs:)
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: but i think your strategy of waiting for the discussion to magically swing your way to have an opportunity is wrong, you need to enforce your opportunities if you want to get anywhere
16:28<Samu>19*10000 + 16*7000 + 12*4000 + 6*2000 = total gold needed to buy all heroes
16:28<Fahrradkette>atoms? :P
16:28<+glx>I think nobody forces you to buy all heroes
16:28<Fahrradkette>or kilograms?
16:28<ElleKitty>Eddi|zuHause I got told earlier that patience is a virtue. Well I'm the one who waited two weeks, and you're the one who couldnt wait to see how the conversation goes >.<
16:29<Samu>362k gold, not 356k, i was wrong
16:29<V453000>weeks is nothing
16:29<V453000>and why did you wait? :D
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>ElleKitty: the "patience" part was about waiting for an answer to your question, not about waiting for an opportunity to ask the question
16:30<Fahrradkette>can the "founding towns algo" place towns on top of existing infrastructure like rails/roads?
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Fahrradkette: a town will claim existing roads nearby
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Fahrradkette: the tile where you place the town might need to be cleared first
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Fahrradkette: not sure about that
16:32<Fahrradkette>so I only need 1 tile?
16:32<Fahrradkette>oh, yeah
16:32<Fahrradkette>guess got to try it out
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, founding the town needs only one tile (where the town name will be)
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>everything else spreads from that tile, and will honour existing stuff there
16:33<Fahrradkette>Is it also possible to assign tiles to towns? like tile ownership
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>empty tiles have no owners
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>everything else will be owned by the town that places it
16:34<Fahrradkette>so the grass outside a town doesn't have an owner?
16:34<Fahrradkette>or the trees
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>every town is free to grow into empty tiles
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>you can't draw a line "this far and no further"
16:35<Fahrradkette>so I can't make a "federal" town which basically builds the border lines in between towns?
16:36<Fahrradkette>thanks anyways for the clarification, I appreciate it
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16:54<Fahrradkette>so to have something like I'd have to use the AI to build the infrastructure and connections. Can I tell the AI to create towns, too? Like enable cheat mode. A problem seems to arise from the fact that I first have to build the train lines/stations and roads/bus stops. After that the towns can get created...
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>AI can found towns just like a player can, with lots of money
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>but a gamescript can also do everything an AI could
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>with fewer restrictions
17:03<Fahrradkette>ah, good to hear
17:05<Fahrradkette>time is: dive into the gamescript api
17:05<Fahrradkette>thanks again:)
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18:40<Samu>1989, 2046
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20:21<Samu>1994, 2046
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 02 00:00:29 2016