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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-05

---Logopened Fri Aug 05 00:00:34 2016
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00:20<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes i wish these vassals would actually have an AI that can coordinate...
00:30<MonkeyDrone>vassals, EU4?
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
01:07-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6AD3E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
01:32<MonkeyDrone>that is one sadistic brutal game.
01:32<MonkeyDrone>my first game, started off as Ottoman....so many regrets :D
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03:17<Alkel_U3>man, fuck aquifers
03:17<Alkel_U3>dordf can't dig underwater
03:17<Alkel_U3>*dorfs
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03:43<MonkeyDrone>stupid dwarves
03:44<MonkeyDrone>stinky thick savages
03:49-!-roboboy [~oftc-webi@220-244-39-147.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:49<roboboy>hello
03:51<roboboy>can anyone provide me with assistance on building a win32 binary of OpenTTD under linux? I am using Ubuntu.
03:51<MonkeyDrone>hello roboboy
03:51<roboboy>I am playing with the new Windows Subsystem for Linux which runs Ubuntu as it's usermode Linux
03:52<roboboy>I also want to eventually try building OpenTTD for DOS at a later stage
03:53<MonkeyDrone>roboboy: why make it for dos?
03:54<roboboy>to test the build system
03:54<roboboy>Once I finish moving out of home, I intend on getting my DOS PC running again.
03:55<MonkeyDrone>that's an interesting undertaking
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03:55<roboboy>OpenTTD in the past has been set up to compile for DOS but it is rarely built for DOS. I intend on testing it every now and then. Plus TTD was originally a DOS game :)
03:56<MonkeyDrone>roboboy: i was there for the original :P
03:57<MonkeyDrone>good times ;D
03:57<roboboy>I played TTD on a 98SE machine for many years.
03:57<roboboy>I played the DOS version on 98SE with TTDPatch.
04:00<roboboy>I am also looking at building TTDPaatch under WSL except it's svn server is down. I personally prefer TTDPatch as a player but we won't discuss that here :P
04:03<MonkeyDrone>i dont even know what ttdpatch is :P
04:06<roboboy>it is the program that revitalised TTD for the first time. It provides TTD many of the older enhancements in OpenTTD including the original specs for NewGRF's. It hasn't had any major updates since I think 2006? It is mostly written in assembler.
04:12<roboboy>I once said the reason I don't like OpenTTD is the credits window. That is still the case however to me OpenTTD as a whole no longer feels like TTD for me, there are too many things I can't even put a finger on so I just say I won't argue and will leave it at that :P
04:16<Alkel_U3>I agree, it has different feel. I can't name it, but it has something that OpenTTD doesn't.
04:23<MonkeyDrone>old age and memoery recall :P
04:24<roboboy>if I don't respond to my question about building OpenTTD, pm me an answer on TT-Forums please
04:25<MonkeyDrone>goodluck mate
04:26<roboboy>I should probably get an X server going on windows and try to run the Linux OpenTTD that way :P
04:29<MonkeyDrone>lol, sounds like alot of work ;p
04:32<roboboy>nah, just download an X server and run a linux command or two
04:32<MonkeyDrone>just for the hell of it eh
04:32<MonkeyDrone>trying out stuff and all
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04:47<@Alberth>moving graphics over the network eh? :)
04:48<@Alberth>will work, but euhm, very slow, most likely, with all the graphics that get modified every frame
04:50<@Alberth>but yeah, it's fun when you realize that the screen you're sitting behind, and the computer you work at, doesn't have to be the same
04:53-!-roboboy [~oftc-webi@220-244-39-147.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
04:54<roboboy>it worked - yey
04:54<@Alberth>\o/
04:54<V453000>sup puny humans
04:54<roboboy>@logs
04:54<@DorpsGek>roboboy: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
04:55<@Alberth>o/ V
04:56<roboboy>Alberth: I think it's doing it via localhost.
04:56<@Alberth>hmm, not enough fun :p
04:56<@Alberth>but a lot faster in the connection :)
04:57<roboboy>yeah.
04:58<@Alberth>running an MP game over localhost is probably better, performance-wise
04:58<roboboy>hehe. That's not what I was doing.
04:59<roboboy>I'm running Microsoft's new Windows Susbsystem for Linux which has no X server.
05:00<roboboy>I built Linux OpenTTD from source under WSL and configured the environment for X and installed an X server on the same Windows 10 machine. I then launched OpenTTD from WSL's bash.
05:00<@Alberth>That's correct, the client with the screen runs the X server. The connection gets forwarded to the remote system for connecting the clients
05:01<V453000>idk, playing openttd with original TTD graphics keeps the spirit to me
05:01<V453000>sure it's not exactly the same as 500 years ago but it's still similar
05:02<roboboy>how would I go about building the Windows version of OpenTTD from linux?
05:02<roboboy>my ultimate goal is to build the DOS version of OpenTTD :P
05:03<V453000>._.
05:03<V453000>why? :D
05:07<roboboy>to ensure it still builds. It was 16 years ago since I originally tested OpenTTD on DOS on real hardware.
05:08<roboboy>actually it was 6 years ago but still
05:09<@Alberth>install a cross compiler
05:09<@Alberth>probably mingw or something, ie a windows c++ compiler
05:14<roboboy>I presume I want to install the 32bit version of Mingw?
05:17<roboboy>actually scratch that
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05:29<roboboy>Ah, so I have mingw32 installed. Now to figure out how to build it.
05:34<@Alberth>that's the easy part, just specify the compiler that you want to use
05:34<@Alberth>you probably also have to specify all the libraries that it wants
05:34<@Alberth>ie as option to ./configure
05:35<roboboy>where can I find options to ./configure?
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05:38<@Alberth>./configure --help ?
05:38<@Alberth>long time ago that I tried that :p
05:39<@Alberth>you may want to write a shell script with the call, unless you like typing long command lines a zillion times
05:47<MonkeyDrone>hardcore nerding going on in here :D
05:55-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
05:56<Samu>hhi
06:00<roboboy>well I am going to try something else for a moment
06:00<@Alberth>o/
06:01<roboboy>I'm installing the 64 bit version of mingw as well
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06:12<Wolf01>o/
06:13<Samu>wmdot duplicating ships: http://imgur.com/a/3hScm
06:15<Samu>can't direct link images anymore
06:15<Samu>imgur, you're dead to me
06:15<Wolf01>Use onedrive
06:16<ST2>http://i.imgur.com/9p0PeBR.png
06:19<Samu>nice ty
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06:22<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=53698&p=1174493#p1174493
06:22<Samu>reported
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06:24<Samu>all those white dots in the mini-map are ships traveling to nardham oilfield, they have to cross the map
06:24<Samu>it's a 1024x1024 map, takes them 2 years to reach destination
06:26<Samu>on the other hand, yapf is the pathfinder in that test, nice that the ships don't get lost
06:26<Samu>yapf is good
06:28<@Alberth>Yeah, I wondered about the white dots too :)
06:28<@Alberth>lots of ships :p
06:28<roboboy>hm, can't seem to figure out ./configure's requirements
06:33<roboboy>hm, just figured it out
06:33<roboboy>now I need to get windres working
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06:37<Samu>2042, 2019
06:38<Samu>lol amd driver update: cant locate folder
06:39<Samu>failed to install AMD Settings Branding - whatever that is
06:40<@Alberth>doesn't sound very good :p
06:43<Samu>oh it's just logos, images, links to updater... nothing "important"
06:44<@Alberth>that would be "branding" indeed :)
06:45<@Alberth>apparently AMD thinks it's sufficiently important to pollute your computer with it :p
06:45<roboboy>hmm, this is annoying
06:45<roboboy>my ./configure is the following
06:46<roboboy>./configure CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=amd64-mingw32msvc-windres --os=MINGW
06:47<Samu>heroes of the storm daily: win 3 games - hardest daily goal :(
06:47<@Alberth>I'd expect the option before the parameters
06:47<roboboy>hm, that may not be the right arguments anyway
06:48<@Alberth>./configure --os=MINGW ....
06:48<Samu>i hope today is not a loss streak day
06:48<Samu>blizzard matchmaking system is still evil
06:48<@Alberth>parameters get picked up by configure?
06:49-!-Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd
06:50<Samu>sometimes i go on to 12 losses in a row... :(
06:50<Samu>before a win
06:52<@Alberth>I don't even understand what "blizzard matchmaking" means tbh (and I likely don't even want to know)
06:52<roboboy>./configure --help says it can take CXX, CC and WINDRES as paramaters and it finds CC and CXX but not WINDRES
06:56<@Alberth>it says "environment variables", which are not parameters
06:56-!-juzza1 [~juzza1@dyn2-212-50-134-43.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #openttd
06:56<@Alberth>CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=amd64-mingw32msvc-windres ./configure --os=MINGW
06:57<@Alberth>try "export" in the shell, it should give you a dump of environment variables
06:58-!-juzza1_ [~juzza1@dyn2-212-50-134-43.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:58<@Alberth>you can make new ones with "export FOO=some-bar"
06:59<roboboy>aha
06:59<@Alberth>Above I used the trick that the shell can make them also for a single command, and forgets them after the command has been done
06:59<@Alberth>useful if you want to set some variables, but not permanently (for the current shell)
07:00<@Alberth>s/shell/session/
07:05<roboboy>http://pastebin.com/p7UtQknA
07:05<roboboy>i'm geting an error about lzo2.
07:08<@Alberth>You need a whole set of libraries, for the cross compiler too
07:10<@Alberth>you may want to check config.log
07:10<roboboy>ah. Ok
07:13<@Alberth>you can also set a custom path for each library, like --with-liblzo2=/some/where/here/liblzo2.so
07:13<@Alberth>ie I doubt it found the correct zlib :p
07:14<@Alberth>this is why I mentioned using a shell script for the command line ;)
07:16<Samu>rofl, medivh is balanced...
07:16<Samu>thx blizzard for another troll hero
07:17<Samu>can't even run away from him
07:17<Samu>i'm sad
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07:17<Samu>today is gonna be loss streak day
07:17<Samu>i can sense it
07:20<V453000>that's when you stop playing and do something else instead :)
07:20<V453000>moar losses just leads to moar frustration
07:26<roboboy>so I downloaded the lzo source and built it as per the MINGW instruction on the OpenTTD wiki. ./configure no longer gives me errors. However make does fail
07:26<roboboy>http://pastebin.com/RrFrwBUM
07:26<roboboy>brb
07:28<roboboy>back
07:32<roboboy>atleast i'm making progress
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07:42<Samu>2nd loss, next
07:43<roboboy>can someone point out what could be causing make to fail? Earlier I got it to fail on endian_check but can't get it to do that again.
07:43<Samu>i want 362k gold, won't stop playing
07:43<Samu>losses still give gold
07:44<Samu>2045, 2019, 6 years till wmdot yapf ships reach 2051
07:45<Samu>or maybe... wmdot will bankrupt before that
07:45<Samu>only 1.5M in the bank
07:46<MonkeyDrone>Samu: what game are you playing?
07:46<MonkeyDrone>overwatch?
07:46<Samu>heroes of the storm
07:46<MonkeyDrone>aka TF2 2.0
07:46<MonkeyDrone>ah hots
07:46<MonkeyDrone>what hero you going to buy with all that gold you are collecting?
07:47<MonkeyDrone>running dat stimpack too? makes insane difference
07:48<MonkeyDrone>i really wish they overhauled Uther, he used to be my top hero but his healing started being less and less effective as more heros came in
07:48<MonkeyDrone>now he's hopeless in pugs
07:48<MonkeyDrone><3 morales
07:48<@Alberth>roboboy: the compiled getoptdata.o is not in a file format that the linker understands. Perhaps you 'make'-ed it with another compiler? To be sure, clean up everything (make mrproper) and run configure and make again
07:49<@Alberth>it should compile everything again, including getoptdata
07:50<roboboy>aha, got the endian_check error again
07:51<MonkeyDrone>screw NUTS, dammit V453000. I try playing OTTD with vanilla trains now and they bloody stuck compared to NUTS.
07:51<@Alberth>If that doesn't fix it, you can try VERBOSE=1 make that dumps the commands that are actually being executed. Likely one of the compile commands uses the wrong path
07:51<MonkeyDrone>V453000: successfully ruined classic ottd for me. gg.
07:51<V453000>=D
07:51<roboboy>http://pastebin.com/bmjPgnYa
07:52<@Alberth>euhm, that's full with unreadable unicode characters
07:54<roboboy>the whole paste or just line 4?
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07:54<@Alberth>./objs/lang/endian_check should then also fail with the same error
07:54-!-Sova [~Sova@cable-89-216-123-190.static.sbb.rs] has joined #openttd
07:55<@Alberth>Ah, right, you can't run a cross-compiled endian check of course :p
07:58<roboboy>so ..
07:59<@Alberth>run the thing on the target platform, and set option --endian=ENDIAN in configure
07:59<@Alberth>at least, that sounds reasonable :p
08:00<roboboy>so run endian_check in windows?
08:00<@Alberth>unless you know endianness at the target platform, you can skip the first step
08:00<@Alberth>*if you know, you can skip
08:01<@Alberth>well, it's 90+% sure it's little endian :p
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08:04<Eddi|zuHause>i've never heard of a big endian windows
08:04<@Alberth>ok, 99.9% :p
08:06<Samu>wow i win, yay
08:06<Samu>lel
08:06<MonkeyDrone>gg Samu
08:06<MonkeyDrone>you play HL? or just normal
08:06<Samu>i know, nobody cares
08:06<Samu>i play quick match
08:06<Samu>auto select
08:06<MonkeyDrone>nice, that's where the fun is at
08:06<Samu>f2p heroes
08:06<MonkeyDrone>AS, heh,
08:06<roboboy>yeah Windows is LE
08:07<MonkeyDrone>i stick to my supports and tanks
08:07<Samu>statistics say i'm best with valla
08:08<Samu>azmodan and nazeebo i think
08:08<MonkeyDrone>Valla, damn i suck with her.
08:08<roboboy>so the command I am running is CXX=i686-w64-mingw32-g++ CC=i686-w64-mingw32-gcc WINDRES=i686-w64-mingw32-windress ./configure --os=MINGW --endian=LE
08:09<roboboy>it still fails on endian_check.exe
08:09<MonkeyDrone>I am great with Uther, Murky, Sonya and Morales
08:09<MonkeyDrone><3 murky, but i heard they nerfed him latest patch, have not played him since hte new patch
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there a "cross compile" option that skips the endian check?
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08:21<Wolf01>http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/agGgA3g_460s.jpg Diamond intersection..nice
08:23<@Alberth>ha, this is just for being cheaper than a proper crossing, I guess
08:25<Samu>already in the negative
08:25<Samu>wmdot will bankrupt right before 2051 :( that's sad
08:25<MonkeyDrone>rip
08:27<Eddi|zuHause><MonkeyDrone> my first game, started off as Ottoman....so many regrets :D <-- and they say that ottomans are one of the easiest countries
08:28<MonkeyDrone>Eddi|zuHause: the problem wasn't the ottoman itself. I had conquered 2 of my neighbors. Then another super power came in and said it would screw me over if i started war with anyone else. I took it on, lost miserably xD
08:28<MonkeyDrone>and ottoman is not easy , they have a lot of penatly on their tech advancement
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>but they also have good leaders
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>and all you need is vienna and tech 10 to westernize
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>you likely get to miltech 4 before anyone else
08:30<MonkeyDrone>i always focused on aggressive expansion, probably was the reason for my downfall most of the time
08:30<Samu>MonkeyDrone: descending order: valla, azmodan, nazeebo, sylvanas, sgt. hammer, muradin, raynor, li li, e.t.c., malfurion, tychus, sonya, jaina, diablo, arthas, falstad, anub'arak, kael'thas, stitches, chen, johanna, tyrande, gazlowe, rehgar, uther, tassadar, thrall, tyrael, brightwing, kerrigan, nova, rexxar, leoric, kharazim, the butcher, illidan, lunara, lt.morales, zeratul, li-ming, tracer, xul, greymane, the lost vikings, medivh, artanis
08:30<MonkeyDrone>i played as aggessively as i could with the ottomans, went full genghis on their butts
08:31<roboboy>I couldn't find a "cross compile" option
08:31<MonkeyDrone>got hotlogs Samu?
08:31<Samu>dehaka
08:31<MonkeyDrone>lost vikings at the bottom xD, i hate em :P
08:31<Samu>no idea what's that, i keep hearing of that
08:31<MonkeyDrone>how do you not know of hotslogs!?
08:31<MonkeyDrone>how long have you been playing that game?
08:31<Samu>2 years
08:32<MonkeyDrone>hotslogs.com
08:32<MonkeyDrone>2 years...damn Samu, you should really look into hotslogs
08:32<Samu>ok let me see
08:32<MonkeyDrone>http://www.hotslogs.com/Player/Profile?PlayerID=2933300
08:32<MonkeyDrone>my profile :P
08:33<Samu>the site is either slow or is not opening for me
08:33<Samu>most deaths as:
08:33<Samu>nova, tassadar, tracer
08:34<MonkeyDrone>lol
08:34<MonkeyDrone>it collects your stats by having to upload your replays
08:34<MonkeyDrone>so if you start now, it will start profiling you adn over time you can see how well you roll
08:34<MonkeyDrone>Murky 72% win rate <3
08:35<Samu>oops nevemind, those are not the most deaths as
08:35<Samu>most deaths as: valla, li li, malfurion
08:35<Samu>most wins as valla too
08:36<Samu>well, auto selects valla most of the time when she's available...
08:36<MonkeyDrone>cause no one else plays her anymore :p
08:37<Samu>i wanted a death/win ratio
08:37<Samu>most assists as: li li, malfurion, valla
08:37<Samu>most kills as: valla, tychus, raynor
08:38<MonkeyDrone>nice!
08:38<MonkeyDrone>tychus <3
08:38<Samu>valla is in in every "most *something)
08:38<MonkeyDrone>they nerfed him a bit but he was so epic before the nerf
08:38<MonkeyDrone>play her enough and she will be, duh :P
08:38<Samu>Welcome to HOTS Logs! - it has opened!
08:39<roboboy>I suspect I will have most of these problems again when I try to build for DOS :(
08:39<Samu>inlcudes hero league matches? so no quick match?
08:39<Samu>useless site
08:40<Samu>hero bans? what the hell is a hero ban?
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: have you actually checked the wiki page on cross compiling?
08:41<MonkeyDrone>Samu: competitive play, you can ban heros in selections i think
08:41<Samu>zagara with the most win % in those stats
08:41<Samu>she's imba indeed
08:42<MonkeyDrone>she got major upgrades last patch
08:42<Samu>chromie is quite low...
08:42<Samu>that's unexpected
08:43<Samu>she's so annoying, 1 hit kills
08:43<Samu>chrono rip
08:43<Samu>blah whatever she uses that teles me back into death
08:43<MonkeyDrone>lol but Chronie needs good skills at knowing where your enemy will be
08:43<MonkeyDrone>i bought her, tried playing, i suck with her
08:44<Samu>medivh in last place
08:44<MonkeyDrone>bought tracer also <3 she's freakin brutal in the right hands
08:44<Samu>i dont trust these statistics
08:44<Samu>medivh, super annoying
08:44<MonkeyDrone>these statistics onhotlogs are only calculated from replays uploaded by people
08:44<MonkeyDrone>so more people upload their replays, (which is uploaded automatically) each is like 250KB
08:45<MonkeyDrone>the hotslogs desktop app takes care of it
08:45<roboboy>Eddi|zuHause: No. I didn't spot it under Category:Compiling OpenTTD
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: hm. i thought i saw it there some years ago
08:46<Samu>azmodan as the worst siege? they gottta be kiding me
08:46<Samu>everytime i see azmodan, i know forts are gone
08:47<MonkeyDrone>a lot of people can't play Azmo
08:47<MonkeyDrone>i've seen so many bad azmos
08:47<roboboy>I am looking at it now however
08:47<MonkeyDrone>they don't know how to split push
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: while at it, you might add it to the category ;)
08:48<Samu>wmdot is still surviving
08:49<Samu>4 more years till 2051, i doubt he'll make it
08:55<@Rubidium>roboboy: have you tried ./configure --host=i686-w64-mingw32 ?
09:01<roboboy>no. Will try that next
09:03<@Rubidium>the biggest PITA of cross compiling are the "config" scripts of the libraries, e.g. pkg-config and so on will not magically give you the right library so you need to "customize" those scripts, or have only those scripts for the architecture you're building for, or have the scripts in a separate folder and mention them explicitly
09:03<@Rubidium>that's why it's best to disable all the libraries at first and see if you can get a binary built, and then start worrying about those libraries
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09:08<roboboy>here is my latest attempt. It includes how I ran ./configure and the fact I ran make mrproper http://pastebin.com/SCBm35M2
09:10<@Rubidium>could you do a make VERBOSE:=1 (no need to do mrproper or configure)
09:17<roboboy>http://pastebin.com/BRt0bsV0
09:19<@Rubidium>okay, one of the libraries is messing with the build path. Try again with --without-png --without-icu --without-liblzma --without-lzo2 --without-zlib extra
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09:25<roboboy>http://pastebin.com/EnSEaYrf
09:26<@Rubidium>guess what... add --without-sdl --without-iconv
09:27<@Rubidium>(it --without-iconv exists)
09:27<@Rubidium>s/it/if/
09:32<Samu>last year for wmdot, almost there, he's surviving with bankrupt warnings
09:36<roboboy>it built and ran
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09:37<Gja>Hej
09:43<roboboy>thankyou Alberth and Rubidium . I presume to build for DOS, I will need to download and build djgpp myself?
09:45<roboboy>anyway, I should go to bed soon. Am just installing wine on Ubuntu on WIndows to see if I can run the Windows version in that crazy environment.
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09:52<Samu_>2051!
09:53-!-sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:59<Samu_>started nonocab v3 original/npf/yapf ships tests
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11:39<@Alberth>o/
11:41<supermop>yo
11:50<frosch123>hoi
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12:38<@Rubidium>moi
12:45<Samu>heh, running hots + 3 servers ottd + 3 spectators ottd uses 6.8 GB RAM
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12:57<Samu>tyrande is the worst hero possible
12:59-!-mescalito [~mescalito@195-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: mescalito]
13:03<ElleKitty>Hey V453000
13:03<ElleKitty>Whenever you see this, let me know
13:07<Samu>who was the hots guy?
13:07<Samu>tyrande is good at what?
13:08<Samu>can't kill, can't lane, can't run, can't heal, ...
13:08<Samu>dies in 1 shot from nova, great hero...
13:09<Samu>worst hero i played so far
13:10<Samu>and i'm tyrande again...
13:10<Samu>another loss coming
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13:21<andythenorth>o/
13:22<frosch123>even more cats
13:22<frosch123>at least 3
13:28<Wolf01>o/
13:28<Wolf01>Just finished the Porsche, with some mods
13:29<Wolf01>btw, got to go
13:31<andythenorth>hmm
13:31<andythenorth>reloading newgrfs
13:32<andythenorth>allocate keys to each newgrf dev?
13:32<andythenorth>hash them
13:32<andythenorth>only enable it for known hashes?
13:32<andythenorth>that raises the bar to someone who can at least find or generate a reverse hash table
13:32<andythenorth>and if *your* newgrf developer key leaks publicly, you lose all rights ever
13:33<andythenorth>that’s a good engineering solution to social problem eh?
13:43<frosch123>self-sign your newgrfs? :p
13:43<frosch123>only reload newgrf if you have the private key for it?
13:44<andythenorth>authenticate with a central server?
13:44<andythenorth>€1 per reload?
13:44<andythenorth>paid to a pool
13:44<andythenorth>all newgrf developers are in the pool?
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13:45<frosch123>what is a newgrf developer?
13:45<@Alberth>andy :p
13:45<frosch123>do you need to purchase a nml license?
13:46<frosch123>hmm, we could just rename the "reloadnewgrfs" command to "andy"
13:48-!-Sirenia [~sirenia@454028b1.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
13:48<andythenorth>cat
13:48<andythenorth>also V453000
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13:52<Samu>next year gpu codenames: vega, volta
13:55<Samu>it's over for AMD
13:56<Samu>some benchmarks show a more than 100% more performance than the best radeon
13:56<andythenorth>this is about as on-topic as Lego :)
13:56<andythenorth>the only thing new graphics cards do for OpenTTD is make it worse
13:56<@Alberth>lego is perhaps more on-topic :)
13:56<+glx>there's a topic ?
13:57<andythenorth>OpenTTD graphic performance has progressively diminished over time
13:58<@Alberth>could be useful to consider what newgrf features could be dropped :p
13:58<@Alberth>or maybe, must be dropped
13:58<andythenorth>8 bit?
13:58<andythenorth>palette animation
13:59<andythenorth>UI zoom?
13:59<@Alberth>the kinds where newgrf decides which sprite to draw are worse, afaik
14:00<@Alberth>but that's basically all newgrf :(
14:02<andythenorth>it’s the palette animation that kills my game :)
14:02<andythenorth>if I enable it, I can literally see each frame on things like payment animation
14:03<andythenorth>also having multiple viewports on the map (a train window for example)
14:04<frosch123>we need a separation from the game logic and the drawing :)
14:04<@Alberth>palette animation is not a problem in a gpu
14:05<andythenorth>GPUs got worse I think :)
14:05<andythenorth>or OS X removed something
14:05<@Alberth>Apple knows what's best for you, as always :)
14:06<@Alberth>tbh, I have absolutely no idea what gpu I have at my system, it could be worse :)
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14:37<Samu>tyrande is really useless...
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15:09<Samu>how does trans waste £2M on ship running costs
15:09<Samu>refit?
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15:11<Samu>ah no, my bad, ships are really costly
15:11<Samu>trans is wasting money on ships that get lost, i forgot about that detail
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16:09<Eddi|zuHause>did anyone attempt yet to implement palette animation as a gpu shader?
16:15<@Alberth>I don't see any problem with that
16:16<@Alberth>make a few textures for the various states, and sample them in the shader
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really a "problem", just something that you need to put some effort into to make it work
16:18<@Alberth>It's not even close to the real problem, as far as I can see. I'd consider that as something that can be added later
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16:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how should ship sizes increase? linear steps, or exponentially, or what?
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16:29<Eddi|zuHause>i'd try quadratic
16:30<andythenorth>I often find there isn’t a ‘right size’ ship at the small end
16:30<andythenorth>and maybe too many choices at the higher end
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16:30<andythenorth>thanks
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>linear sounds wrong
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>and exponential tends to be too much
16:31<andythenorth>@calc 810/360
16:31<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 2.25
16:31<andythenorth>@calc 360/140
16:31<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 2.57142857143
16:31<andythenorth>@calc 140/65
16:31<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 2.15384615385
16:32<andythenorth>current Squid values don’t work for my games
16:32<andythenorth>not far off
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>if you go exponential, pick a factor smaller than 2, like 1.5
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>or sqrt(2)
16:38-!-shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>or alternate between 1.5 and 1.33
16:41<andythenorth>that makes sense
16:41<andythenorth>@calc 65 * 1.5
16:41<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 97.5
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>for comparison: factor sqrt(2) is how european paper sizes work, and alternating 1.5 and 1.33 is how american paper sizes (some of them) work
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16:50<Eddi|zuHause>in both cases, 2 steps are a factor of 2
16:53<andythenorth>nice reference
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17:16<andythenorth>@calc 1.41 * 65
17:16<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 91.65
17:16<andythenorth>@calc 1.41 * 92
17:16<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 129.72
17:17<andythenorth>@calc 1.41 * 130
17:17<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 183.3
17:17<andythenorth>probably too closely spaced
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17:52<Samu>@calc
17:52<@DorpsGek>Samu: calc <math expression>
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19:37<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 06 00:00:35 2016