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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-06

---Logopened Sat Aug 06 00:00:35 2016
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02:47-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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03:02<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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03:24<andythenorth>cargo metro train, 1 tile long (2 * 8/8 units)
03:24<andythenorth>how much mail?
03:24*andythenorth has a value and is sanity checking
03:24<andythenorth>equivalent pax metro is 240 pax
03:24<andythenorth>equivalent cargo tram is 120 bags of mail
03:25<@Alberth>it's always not enough :p
03:26<@Alberth>lot of people in one tile, isn't it?
03:26<andythenorth>I don’t find cities generate that much mail :)
03:26<andythenorth>whereas pax…
03:27<@Alberth>although I don't have numbers about that
03:27<@Alberth>true, true
03:28<@Alberth>120 is probably even an overestimate, but less makes it somewhat unbelievable compared to pax
03:28<andythenorth>I have matched it to the trams
03:28<@Alberth>and it's a nice simple number, so go for it :)
03:28<andythenorth>it’s a convenience to players, the mail vehicles are balanced same for trams / metro
03:29<andythenorth>so you build your pax network, and then there’s no penalty or advantage wrt mail
03:30<@Alberth>I also always just add a mail wagon, as it's simple to add, and doesn't hurt
03:31<andythenorth>do you use Iron Horse metro?
03:31<@Alberth>in airports, however, I find myself adding a dedicated mail aircraft, to get rid of it
03:31<@Alberth>I don't use metro much at all, and haven't played with iron horse recently either
03:32<@Alberth>but you've been busy, maybe I should try it again :)
03:32<andythenorth>I was just checking I’m not ruining your play style
03:32<andythenorth>I just removed a mail car from metro
03:32<andythenorth>and made the engine carry mail
03:37<@Alberth>wouldn't that run the risk that "load cargo" in a city then loads mail instead of the industry cargo?
03:38<@Alberth>don't know what city industries you have though
03:38<andythenorth>it’s ok, there are no wagons for metro
03:38<@Alberth>in default set, the bank would be an obvious example
03:38<andythenorth>so the engine is the only freight cargo-carrying train on this railtype
03:39<andythenorth>and is refittable to express cargos
03:39<@Alberth>ah, so it's a dedicated vehicle, that would work
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04:01<roboboy>Hey all
04:01<roboboy>Alberth: we got openttd to compile for Windows under Linux last night :)
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04:36<roboboy>now to figure out which lib was breaking the build
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04:39<Samu>1971, 1976, 1974, 2022
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05:11<andythenorth>Wolf01: so the Arocs crane is useless :D
05:11<andythenorth>expected :P
05:11<Wolf01>Put there the 8258 one :P
05:12<andythenorth>that is useless also :)
05:12<Wolf01>At least is not pneumatic
05:13<Wolf01>Maybe the logging truck one (I don't remember the number)
05:14<Wolf01>9397 maybe
05:16<andythenorth>geared ones are too slow
05:16<andythenorth>technic ones are too uncontrollable :)
05:18<andythenorth>technic / pneumatic /s :P
05:18<Wolf01>Mix them up
05:36*andythenorth is playing OpenTTD
05:36<andythenorth>to test Road Hog
05:37<andythenorth>but I find I have to fix my other newgrfs :P
05:41<@Alberth>always one broken newgrf :p
05:48<roboboy>aha, it seems the reason I couldn't compile last night was none of the cross compile libraries were in the right spot or didn't exist. or that's what I think from quick testing
05:51<roboboy>I just tried compiling with zlib (to get a successfull compile, I have to leave all the libraries out) and I ran make with VERBOSE=1,
05:52<roboboy>that is the last few entries output to the console plus the error.
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05:55<@Alberth>that's a missing header file
05:55<@Alberth>ie a missing -I option
05:57<@Alberth>header files specify the call interface from a program to the library, eg the data types and the available functions with their signature
05:57<@Alberth>library files (.so, .a, .dll etc) contain the implementation of those functions
05:57<roboboy>I understand that from the bit of C++ I learnt
05:57<@Alberth>header files are used by the c++ compiler, library files are used by the linker (ld)
05:58<roboboy>so if I understand correctly, someone's configure script is broken?
05:59<@Alberth>-I defines a directory to look for a header file (you can have more -I options), -L defines a directory to look into for a library file, with -l the actual library to use
05:59<@Alberth>an installed library, normally has both header files and library files
06:00<@Alberth>the question is thus where are those for the zlib that you used
06:00*andythenorth makes ugly cargo metro trains
06:01<roboboy>how can I find out which zlib got used?
06:01<@Alberth>secondly, how did you specify where ./configure could find its zlib?
06:01<@Alberth>my guess is in the .log file
06:02<roboboy>I didn't give ./configure any help finding zlib
06:02<@Alberth>it seems to list the command that it used
06:03<@Alberth>executing pkg-config zlib --modversion <- mine says this
06:03<@Alberth>so try that command :)
06:05<@Alberth>pkgconfig zlib --libs for the library file
06:05<@Alberth>pkgconfig zlib --cflags-only-I for the include, probably
06:06<@Alberth>it's empty for me, likely because it's installed in the default include path
06:07<roboboy>for --libs I get -lz and for --cflags-only-I it's empty
06:08<@Alberth>that would be the standard zlib, I guess of the Linux system itself
06:09<@Alberth> /usr/include/zlib.h is the header file for me
06:10<@Alberth>pkgconfig doesn't know you're doing a cross-compile, so you'll get the wrong results
06:10<roboboy>mine is in ~/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8$
06:11<roboboy>and so is the DLL
06:11<@Alberth>./configure with --with-zlib=$HOME/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8
06:12<@Alberth>~ may also work here, but ~ is a shell thing, while $FOO is an enviornment variable that works also outside the shell
06:12<andythenorth>should I ban industries on mountains?
06:12<andythenorth>I am trying to keep an open mind
06:13<andythenorth>but I don’t see the case
06:13<@Alberth>it's not my favorite spot for an industry :p
06:13<andythenorth>why not? o_O
06:13<@Alberth>dragging up all that cargo :p
06:13<andythenorth>I like that :)
06:13<andythenorth>game is about building routes
06:14<@Alberth>yeah, it does pose a challenge :)
06:14<Eddi|zuHause>what constitutes a "mountain"?
06:14<andythenorth>anything above 2/3 of max height?
06:14<roboboy>checking zlib... not found configure: error: pkg-config zlib couldn't be found configure: error: you supplied '/home/lg/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8', but it seems invalid
06:14<Hiddenfunstuff>mountain is a bump on the ground
06:14<Samu>i thought zeratul was much better at surviving, he isn't
06:15<Samu>damn he dies so quickly
06:15<andythenorth>I think it’s a valid question
06:15<frosch123>sounds like a gamescript
06:15<andythenorth>‘andythenorth likes forcing players to build uphill routes’ might not be valid
06:15<frosch123>deliver cargo with maximum height difference uphull
06:15<@Alberth>so it's a valid style of game play to have industries on a mountain
06:15<andythenorth>but ‘forcing industries to valleys because realism’ might also not be valid
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06:16<@Alberth>if you want finer control, you need a parameter
06:16<andythenorth>yeah, there’s no obvious best
06:16<Samu>who's currently in charge of trans?
06:16<andythenorth>make a scenario :P
06:16<andythenorth>newgrf parameter
06:16<andythenorth>gamescript :P
06:16<@Alberth>roboboy: ugh, it tries to pkgconfig the argument :p what does the log say?
06:17<andythenorth>new map format, with control over industry spawn points?
06:17<andythenorth>openttd setting?
06:17*andythenorth thinks it’s not a FIRS thing
06:17<@Alberth>NewGRF specs think otherwise :p
06:18<@Alberth>but indeed, it's questionable whether an industry set should do those limits
06:18<@Alberth>tops of mountains are flat, which is maybe why industries like them :)
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06:19<@Alberth>executing /home/lg/OpenTTD/lib/zlib-1.2.8 --modversion lol
06:20<Samu>hmm i think i found a rare pathfinding bug
06:20<Samu>let me screenshot
06:20<roboboy>that's what I was thinking Alberth
06:20<roboboy>that's not a command
06:21<Samu>those 2 ships can't get to the buoy just next door, why's that?
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06:23<@Alberth>can't make the turn or so?
06:24<@Alberth>roboboy: RB did say something about hacking scripts yesterday, maybe this is what he meant
06:24<Samu>they can do 90 degrees
06:24<roboboy>maybe. hmm
06:25<roboboy>I think I will watch some video online and come back to this
06:25<roboboy>thanks for your help again.
06:26<Samu>ah i see what's wrong
06:26<Samu>a 2nd dock was placed right when the ship were entering that tile, and locked them
06:27<Samu>they're locked NE-NW
06:27<Samu>NE-NW track direction
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06:44<Samu>maybe a fix is to prevent docks being placed when there's a ship in the vicinity
06:46<Samu>D is dock
06:46<Samu>X - forbid placement if there's a ship
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07:04<argoneus>good morning train friends
07:06*andythenorth wants closable docks, like airports
07:06<andythenorth>relocating a dock is silly
07:06<andythenorth>ships skip to next order, and ships often have long orders, because bouys
07:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: how does closing the dock help there?
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the reason for closing airports was that you only can move an airport if it's empty. that restriction is not there for docks
07:12<andythenorth>stop all ships heading for that dock?
07:12*andythenorth sees the point
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: go to dock window->ship list->stop all button
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07:18<andythenorth>multi-stop docks? o_O
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07:49<roboboy>and I'm back from watching video's
07:49<Eddi|zuHause>what could video possibly own?
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08:23<roboboy>I would love to figure out which scripts need hacking to properly cross compile.
08:24<MonkeyDrone>have you tried asking jesus?
08:24<andythenorth>I’ve been talking to Jesus
08:24<andythenorth>all my life
08:24<andythenorth>where is peter1138 when you need him?
08:25<MonkeyDrone>trolling teh sheeps in the desert again i bet
08:40<roboboy>maybe, I can get away with copying some files arround the system
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08:41<@Alberth>roboboy: config.lib is the actual code; if you follow zlib, you end up in detect_zlib() line 2687, and in detect_pkg_config() line 2699, that eventually does eval "$3=\"$pkg_config_call\"" which does something like zlib_config="pkgconfig zlib". That is used in 1668 and further, to set CFLAGS and LIBS
08:42<andythenorth>shall I release Iron Horse 1.9.0?
08:43<@Alberth>is done?
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08:43<andythenorth>could do more
08:43<andythenorth>but eh
08:44<roboboy>well the compile failed on zconf.h after copying zlib.h to the mingw include directory. It hasn't failed yet since copying all the .h files from my zlib directory to the mingw include directory
08:44<@Alberth>that's one solution, but not so maintainable
08:45<roboboy>which version of OpenTTD was the svn titlegame saved with?
08:45<@Alberth>the official solution is to add -I/path/to/zlib/include to CFLAGS, and something similar for LIBS
08:46<@Alberth>extremely ancient afaik
08:46<@Alberth>load as game, then type "gamelog" in the console
08:46<roboboy>newer than 0.3.0?
08:47<roboboy>I think I read 0.3.0 is one of the versions where the compresion library changed
08:47<@Alberth>I don't know
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08:47<@Alberth>andythenorth: well, done enuf thus :)
08:47<andythenorth>I shipped it
08:49<roboboy>the compile failed with : /usr/bin/i686-w64-mingw32-ld: cannot find -lz collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status
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09:07<@Alberth>the library files need to be found too :)
09:07<@Alberth>andy: \0/
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09:11<andythenorth>always be shipping
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10:12<Eddi|zuHause>roboboy: the game log should tell you which savegame version the savegame had, and in the saveload code there's a comment that maps savegame versions to svn revisions
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>(alternatively to gamelog, some debug output should tell you as well)
10:16<Samu>uh, just found another situation where ships can get locked
10:18<Samu>there's actually many of these t.t
10:18<Samu>now that i look at it more carefully
10:19<Samu>found a NW-SE
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10:43<Samu>what is the exact direction track a ship docks at a docks?
10:58<andythenorth>Samu: do you have ‘disable 90 degree turns’ enabled?
10:58<andythenorth>ships don’t / didn’t work if that was enabled
11:08<Samu>it's during dock/depot placement
11:08<Samu>they get locked to only 1 piece of track
11:08<Samu>and can't turn to any other direction
11:10<Samu> 7
11:10<Samu>S is ship
11:10<Samu>if something spawns at 5, 6 or 7, ship can get locked
11:11<Samu>D is dock
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12:42<andythenorth>css fun
12:43*Wolf01 is bored
12:45<andythenorth>write some code? o_O :)
12:45<Wolf01>Already did it
12:46<andythenorth>draw trams? o_O
12:46<Wolf01>I could do some voxels of your vehicles
12:47<Wolf01>With flat colours because I only see 16 of them
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13:39<andythenorth>tanker tramz :P
13:53<Samu>subterrainian aircraft
13:54<Samu>According to reliable Korean website iNews24, as reported by Kotaku, Blizzard is currently working on an HD version of their popular strategy game StarCraft, which will apparently be unveiled next month. Read more:
13:55<SpComb>StarCraft HD vs StarCraft II?
13:55<Samu>that rumor tag
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13:59<Samu>it's becoming ridiculous for amd
14:01<V453000>never seen anyone with $1200 card care about power tbh :D
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14:38<andythenorth>such tramz
14:38<andythenorth>maybe I should colour them for more cargos
14:38<andythenorth>what colour is rubber?
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14:43<V453000>in ttd probably white :P
14:43<andythenorth>that’s the colour for milk
14:43<andythenorth>should be dark red or some other random colour
14:43<V453000>add brown bits to it
14:43*andythenorth is going to automate tanker repainting
14:44<V453000>like the the white tubes with brownish edges in original ttd set
14:46<Wolf01>Steam.. sceduled update to 10.45am (tomorrow) 18MB, starts huge 2GB update before everything else
14:47<Wolf01>2GB for a game I don't play for about 3 years
14:48<Wolf01>While the 18MB one is for a game I play often
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16:43<Samu>C:\Program Files\OpenTTD 47,9 MB (50.315.758 bytes)
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17:15<MonkeyDrone>shift+delete -> enterkey
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---Logclosed Sun Aug 07 00:00:37 2016