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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-07

---Logopened Sun Aug 07 00:00:37 2016
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03:09<andythenorth>iz realism?
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03:30<andythenorth>lo Alberth
03:31<V453000>iz chibby?
03:31<andythenorth>oil tankers
03:31<andythenorth>that are electric trams
03:31<andythenorth>electric things spark
03:31<andythenorth>too explodey?
03:32<V453000>I thought if trains look chibby in openttd
03:32<andythenorth>not that chibby
03:32<V453000>why not make them ultra chibby to make it seem like it's on purpose
03:33<andythenorth>but would suit yeti dudes
03:33<V453000>it's BRIX vehiculs
03:33<andythenorth>seems fair
03:33<andythenorth>I like the engine more than the wagon
03:33<andythenorth>the engine looks heft
03:33<andythenorth>due to huge boiler
03:33<V453000>well the wagon isn't quite done, it is just a placeholder to test sizes in game
03:34<V453000>to detect glitches etc
03:36<V453000>this little shit is chaney jubilee. :D
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03:36<V453000>trying to start with a steamer which seems more complex than making a diesel brick
03:45<V453000>u chibby?
03:46<V453000>I totally chibby right now
03:46<Supercheese>getting' chibby with it
03:46<Supercheese>weird autocorrect
03:47<Supercheese>Do Yetis have flamethrowers yet?
03:48<V453000>yetis are asleep now
03:48<V453000>brix on fire
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04:07<andythenorth>if that carried petrol, would it explode? o_O
04:13<Supercheese>depends on how full
04:14<Supercheese>mostly vapour, yeah perhaps if a spark gets where it shouldn't
04:14<Supercheese>completely full, no probably not
04:16<andythenorth>I could do loco + wagons
04:17<andythenorth>this is current tramz for it
04:29<Ethereal_Shiver>Playing this game again for the first time in a long time... let's see if I remember how to play properly
04:35<Supercheese>good luck; try not to cross the trains
04:36<Ethereal_Shiver>I already made kind of a crappy junction
04:40<Supercheese>might I recommend Path Signals?
04:40<Supercheese>they're pretty much superior in every way
04:41<Ethereal_Shiver>Well, that's what the priority lane in the main line uses, but the side lines get block signals
04:53<andythenorth>exploding tanker tramz it is then
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04:59<Supercheese>quak indeed
04:59<frosch123>morning mammals :)
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05:03<andythenorth>too many trams to draw for ~1950
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05:20<V453000>heyo frosch123
05:20<V453000>didn't you by chance have some time for foundation shit? :)
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05:30<frosch123>more shit to pull
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06:00*Ethereal_Shiver shoots Wolf01
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06:17<@Alberth>this wolf is very friendly
06:17<@Alberth>no need to shoot
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06:43<Samu>i don't understand that name
06:45<Samu>blizzard treatment to amd
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07:07<andythenorth>tankers coloured per cargo is the way forward
07:08<andythenorth>V453000 ^ :P
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08:07<V453000>frosch123: :D
08:13<frosch123>V453000: we need to change all ground sprite offset from (-128,0) to (-124,-2) :p
08:13<frosch123>and we need an extension to ottd
08:16<V453000>moving those isn't a huge problem, but tracks, roads and bridges need to move as well then
08:16<V453000>extension to openttd?
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08:19<roboboy>Istarted a TT-Forums thread to get help with Cross Compiling.
08:20<frosch123>fuck, i mean (-124,+2)
08:22<V453000>right, didn't start to make changes yet :P
08:22<V453000>but what do you mean by extension?
08:25<frosch123>no idea, whether i mean -2 or +2 :p
08:25<@Alberth>roboboy: first guess is to disable the pkgconfig call, and add -I directory for the zlib header files, and -L and -l for the libraries
08:25<frosch123>i guess -2 :p
08:26<V453000>can try both :P will do in the evening
08:26<V453000>now baby
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08:31<roboboy>Alberth: I need to figure how to do that from the scripts. I am a windows guy and not a Linux guy :P
08:34<frosch123>V453000: <- this is what it now looks like
08:34<frosch123>with fixed foundation offsets
08:34<frosch123>and groundsprites changed to (-124,-2)
08:34<frosch123>though i am not sure whether i caught all ground sprites
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08:35<V453000>seems fixed?
08:35<frosch123>about the ottd extension: when you look at the halftile foundations in the middle-right at the top, you can see that both the north and south foundation show a bit too much of the slope
08:38<V453000>should I then make 1px extra on the inside of the foundations so it doesn't create that alpha, but neither exceed the current sprite eize?
08:39<V453000>it looks like there is that kind of 1px problem all over the place
08:40<@Alberth>roboboy: something like
08:41<frosch123>V453000: i pushed my changes
08:42<@Alberth>ah, you're scripting V? :)
08:42<frosch123>V453000: generally, the schema should now be: 1x-offset (x,y) -> 4x-offset (4*x,4*y-2)
08:42<V453000>nice, I will merge it and see
08:43<frosch123>V453000: about the sprites, yes they need an additional pixel on some sides, also you may need to check alpha borders in some places
08:43<V453000>how do I check alpha borders?
08:44<V453000>just manually/visually or do we have a tool for it?
08:44<frosch123>i added NOALPHA to the foundation sprites, so it prints warning if there is any alpha in the foundations :p
08:44<frosch123>if foundations half no alpha, it is easy to check whether they connect to the neighbouring tiles
08:45<V453000>I see now
08:45<frosch123>in theory foundations may have semi-transparent pixels where they overlap with other tiles, but that is f-ing hard to see :)
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08:46<V453000>oh there is even a wrogly made sprite :d
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08:48<V453000>but nice, I will fix things manually now by extra pixels
08:48<V453000>since I have each of the slope-parts defined only once, it will be easy to fix them one by one
08:48<V453000>so I don't have to fix all of them individually
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08:51<V453000>frosch123: -98 is a weird number isn't it
08:51<V453000>would have expected -96
08:51<V453000>as 4*24
08:51<frosch123>[14:42] <frosch123> V453000: generally, the schema should now be: 1x-offset (x,y) -> 4x-offset (4*x,4*y-2)
08:52<V453000>oh right
08:52<V453000>missed the y part
08:52<frosch123>the -2 is to account for half a pixel, this puts the slope-edge between two pixels
09:00<frosch123>V453000: btw. you can use templates inside templates
09:00<frosch123>that way you do not have to copy that much :p
09:02<V453000>can you show an example please?
09:02<frosch123>line 9565
09:02<frosch123>just what i did for foundations
09:02<frosch123>one template to address a sprite in the spritesheet
09:02<frosch123>then templates which group slopes
09:03<frosch123>in the replacenew i only have 11 template calls, instead of 90
09:03<V453000>well that's wtf
09:06<V453000>I think I understand
09:06<V453000>pretty nice
09:07<V453000>could be useful for shit like bridges
09:07<V453000>there I have stupidly many templates
09:07<V453000>for now I gtfo, thank you very much yet again frosch123 . :)
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09:22<Samu>1991, 2003, 2006, 2025
09:23<Samu>nonocab ships still got a few problems
09:24<Samu>it needs a better detector when placing docks/depots, or it may end up locking ships
09:24<Samu>or maybe openttd itself could need a patch to avoid these ship lockups?
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09:42<Samu>but overall, you nailed all ship problems other than this
09:42<Samu>great job
09:48<Wormnest>Samu: Yes I am aware that there still are some problem areas but the worst should be fixed
09:48<Wormnest>and will have to do until I have more time again
09:52<Wormnest>I wonder if there is a limit to the number of buoys that can be used
09:52<Wormnest>If not just always put buoys in spots that you don´t want blocked
10:16<Samu>saves are discarding a few ship conections
10:16<Samu>about 60 out of 1100
10:17<Wormnest>Yea not much I can do about that unless I do a lot more revising of the save/load code than I want to do
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10:48<andythenorth>self-repainting tankers :D
10:51<Samu>4824 out of 5000 yapf ships are profiting
10:52<Samu>4855 out of 5000 original ships are profiting
10:52<Samu>3627 out of 5000 npf ships are profiting
10:52<Samu>npf seems to be a problem
10:53<Samu>i will wait till 2051 as always
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11:01<andythenorth>silver tankers for petrol?
11:01*andythenorth thinks yes
11:02<@Alberth>looks nice
11:02<@Alberth>openttd :p
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>not enough :p
11:03<andythenorth>trucks and trains
11:03<andythenorth>Iron Horse uses silver currently
11:03<andythenorth>I could change it
11:03<andythenorth>it’s based on real-life train colours in UK, so not a particularly good reason
11:03<andythenorth>I have 2CC for RFPR
11:03<andythenorth>black for oil
11:03<andythenorth>black for unknown liquid cargos
11:03<andythenorth>oops, 1CC for RFPR
11:03<andythenorth>think it could be done better
11:04<andythenorth>other liquid cargos include at least rubber, which I think should maybe be dark red?
11:05<andythenorth>maybe 2cc for unknown cargos?
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'd probably go for a grey wagon with a stripe in the colour of the cargo, and some symbol in CC
11:05<andythenorth>any suggestions for cargo colours in that model? o_O
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>not really
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>but probably should build a scheme that is consistent, like it also appears on the map, and on freight stations, industries, etc.
11:20*andythenorth wonders which liquid cargos there are
11:20<andythenorth>wiki probably knows
11:23<andythenorth>not very many
11:23<andythenorth>‘chemicals’ catches the majority of them
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>off the top of my head: water, oil, fuel oil/refined oil, milk, beer, chemicals, fertilizer (potentially rather bulk/pourable)
11:26<andythenorth>that’s about all of them
11:26<V453000>did you open that page? :)
11:27<V453000>has them all
11:27<andythenorth>waiting for the images to load :P
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>somebody will come up with crazier cargos
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: don't forget cola
11:27<andythenorth>and plastic
11:27<andythenorth>or plastic
11:27<V453000>all cargoes I have in that table are what exists in the game, thus is reasonable for the set to support it
11:27<andythenorth>oh fizzy drinks also
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>there was a set where livestock is liquid (simulating milk)
11:28<andythenorth>oh my code seems to contain option for *sets* of colours :P
11:28<andythenorth>for container vehicles, where same colour all the time is boring :P
11:28<andythenorth>randomised on load
11:28<V453000>is good
11:28<andythenorth>who writes this stuff?
11:29<andythenorth>nearly all the code I have written now relates to creating or displaying cargos :P
11:29<andythenorth>there are almost no clever cost algorithms, or vehicle aging tricks or anything :(
11:29<V453000>I will do something very similar for BRIX+ too
11:29<andythenorth>just endless cargo sprite things
11:30<V453000>clever cost algorithms are pointless
11:30<andythenorth>is this game about just watching sprites move around?
11:30<V453000>cargoes matter
11:30<andythenorth>or is it about Serious Economic Choices?
11:30<V453000>you know the answer :)
11:30<andythenorth>hmm my kids are fighting in the hot tub
11:30<andythenorth>see how that goes
11:31<andythenorth>not well
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11:53<andythenorth>could recolour box vans to match cargo
11:53<andythenorth>seems messy, not sure why
11:54<andythenorth>tankers seems fine
11:57<@Alberth>it reduces randomness somewhat, but you can see what's inside, which can be useful too
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12:19<andythenorth>currently all box vans are just 2CC
12:19<andythenorth>I dunno
12:19<andythenorth>there are a *lot* of cargos for those vans
12:20<andythenorth>23 or so in a FIRS extreme game
12:21<andythenorth>@calc 8*23
12:21<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 184
12:21<@Alberth>is that because you make many cargoes transportable in a boxvan
12:21<andythenorth>they’re one of the two ‘catch alls’
12:22<V453000>that alone is showing some problem :P
12:22<V453000>moar flatbeds I sez
12:22<andythenorth>they’re a fallback choice, most cargos have a specific better wagon type
12:22<andythenorth>V453000: +1, visible cargos ftw
12:22<andythenorth>in 256 colour palette, there just aren’t enough colours to do this for box vans
12:22<andythenorth>tankers there much fewer cargos
12:23<frosch123> <- wrote some stuff
12:24<frosch123> <- also added complicated example, which only those will understand who do not need it
12:25<andythenorth>template the templates? o_O
12:25<andythenorth>for more fun?
12:27<frosch123>yay, for fish in tankers :)
12:29<andythenorth>I should make a new FISH
12:30<V453000>frosch123: I can't fix it 100% with just sprite fixing
12:30<V453000>at the corners there it often is necessary to add 1 extra pixel to the foundation sprite
12:30<frosch123>andythenorth: iron horse, road hog, sea ape?
12:31<V453000> bottom 2 pixels
12:31<V453000>this shit occurs very often
12:32<V453000>is there anything we are able to do about it?
12:32<andythenorth>sea ape :P
12:32<@Alberth>sea monkey :p
12:32<andythenorth>sea monkeys
12:32<andythenorth>not bad
12:33<andythenorth>sea or river?
12:33<andythenorth>or lake?
12:33<frosch123>V453000: why is that not fixable with sprites?
12:33<V453000>more sprite height that way?
12:33<frosch123>adding pixels at the bottom does not affect offsets
12:33<V453000>ok :D
12:33<frosch123>only top and left are troublesome
12:34<V453000>so I just make it 1px higher and increase height in template by 1px?
12:34<frosch123>you cannot change xxxx about top and left
12:34<frosch123>yes, changing height should be fine
12:34<V453000>thank you
12:34<andythenorth>lake placid?
12:34<andythenorth>suits the monsters idea :P
12:37<frosch123> <- didn't know that word was a thing
12:39<andythenorth>yup :)
12:39<andythenorth>improving river generation is probably way beyond me :P
12:39<andythenorth>rivers are lame
12:40<andythenorth>well, lame is too harsh :)
12:40<andythenorth>rivers have unfulfilled potential
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13:10<V453000>frosch123: how does this happen? something is over foundation, something isn't :D
13:10<V453000>I guess it's just cause there is no tile under it, but still :D
13:10<V453000>is there a way to fix that?
13:12<frosch123>ignore the border in the front for now
13:12<frosch123>just make the foundation align at the back side
13:13<frosch123>the front border can only be fixed with a new ottd feature
13:13<V453000>ah right
13:13<V453000>ok :)
13:13<V453000>will just add 1 pixel at the purple bottom, too
13:14<V453000>the back is obvious. ;)
13:15<frosch123>the ground sprite is drawn on top of the foundation
13:16<frosch123>so can also just fill the inside of the foundation :p
13:16<frosch123>though maybe not as cool for adding textures later
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27624 trunk/src/lang/spanish_MX.txt (2016-08-07 19:45:36 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish (mexican): 24 changes by Absay
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14:23*LordAro waves
14:25<LordAro>did some wikiing earlier
14:25<LordAro>someone hasn't been keeping an eye on the release pages for me :p
14:52<@Alberth>hi hi
14:52<@Alberth>thanks for the update
15:36<andythenorth>iz tram
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say "no"...
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>that is a railcar with a regular wagon
15:43<andythenorth>iz tram
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15:48<Eddi|zuHause>that would work
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17:05<Samu>4897/5000 original ships profit
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17:05<Samu>4806/5000 npf ships profit
17:05<Samu>4965/5000 yapf ships profit
17:05<Samu>nice npf recovery
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19:49<Samu>trrans got 1023 lost ships
19:49<Samu>on the same route, the performance of that server is horrible
19:50<Samu>worse than nocab trying to sell trains
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22:12<Eddi|zuHause>"10 Period Hacks All Girls NEED To Know!" why, oh youtube, would you suggest me this video?
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23:21<Supercheese>I prefer comma and semicolon hacks, myself
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---Logclosed Mon Aug 08 00:00:38 2016