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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-12

---Logopened Fri Aug 12 00:00:44 2016
00:35<Eddi|zuHause>well, people do that far too often...
00:37<Eddi|zuHause>(well, actually less often than they used to, IRC is a bit more niche now, hardly any new people joining)
00:38<MonkeyDrone>Flygon: what was the answer?
00:38<MonkeyDrone>most people don't understand irc, too busy with their facebook chat ;P
00:39<Eddi|zuHause>MonkeyDrone: that's total nonsense, because people did that long before facebook existed
00:41<Eddi|zuHause>MonkeyDrone: i once said a sentence like "old people have no patience anymore, must be because of this rock'n'roll music that fries their brains"
00:44<Eddi|zuHause>turns out, people do the same thing they always did, including thinking that the next generation will bring the downfall of civilization.
01:20<Flygon>42
01:21<Flygon><Eddi|zuHause> MonkeyDrone: i once said a sentence like "old people have no patience anymore, must be because of this rock'n'roll music that fries their brains"
01:21<Flygon>Heavy Metal's still a kickass movie
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01:36<merc>Evening folks
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02:00<Flygon>Maybe we should put something in the topic
02:00<Flygon>Like "Don't leave immediately, that's not how IRC works"
02:00<Flygon>:I
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02:32<MonkeyDrone>Yes our kids will bring the end of the world. Those bastards!
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04:23<@Alberth>o/
04:28<V453000>yo mf
04:29<andythenorth>iz trains?
04:31<V453000>didn't really have time for it yesterday, but I did some modelling on the coupling part
04:31<V453000>I got some ideas how to make it look better, just need to implement them over the weekend
04:32*andythenorth bbl
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05:22<Wolf01>moin
05:38<@Alberth>moin
05:41<tycoondemon>people are spoiled with whatsapp and telegram
05:44<Wolf01>< Flygon> Like "Don't leave immediately, that's not how IRC works" <- I tried staying in a channel for 10+ hours after I made a question, not even a single line of text with 8 people in the channel... everyone idle
05:46<Flygon>Wolf01: True. I've had that happen myself
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05:47<Wolf01>Btw, we already have "Don't ask to ask" in the topic, and they still ask to ask
05:47<Wolf01>So: nobody reads topic
05:48<Flygon>...
05:48<Flygon>I am guilty of asking to ask
05:48<Flygon>It's just...
05:48<Flygon>Rude!
05:48<Flygon>To not ask!
05:49<Wolf01>May I ask to ask a question?
05:49<Flygon>Perhaps
05:50<@Alberth>how can you say "perhaps" if he already did it?
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05:52<Flygon>Alberth: Nothing in the rules says I can't!
05:52<Wolf01>The problem with "ask to ask" is that you could wait indefinitely for the grant, which usually won't arrive as "could I ask a question?" is a totally pointless sentence. If you greet, and clearly ask what do you need, maybe one bored idler could answer
05:54<@peter1138>hi
05:54<MonkeyDrone>hello peter1138
05:54<Wolf01>:)
05:55<Wolf01>I really need to play with a GS... I'm getting bored after 2 years of playing OTTD
05:55<MonkeyDrone>GS?
05:55<MonkeyDrone>game sexxor mod?
05:55<Wolf01>Game Script
05:55<Wolf01>Objectives/Challenges
05:55<MonkeyDrone>aye, i know of it
05:56<MonkeyDrone>well you could try playing tetris
05:57<Wolf01>But now, I'll try to make a working base on Planetbase, I got my people dying the first night because the night came really soon and they didn't build the accumulator in time
05:57<@Alberth>oops
06:30-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@localhost] has joined #openttd
06:30<Samu>hi
06:32<Samu>hmm i'm trying to test aircraft AIs
06:32<Samu>they have trouble starting up
06:32<Samu>they spend money on roads :(
06:33<Samu>otviai spent an insane amount of money on construction, i dont know what it did, terraform perhaps?
06:33<Samu>no airports
06:34<Samu>no roads either
06:39<Samu>okay, trying a different setting for otvi
06:39<Samu>he detected that he can't build roads now
06:39<Samu>let's hope he builds aircraft
06:40<Samu>nevermind
06:41<Samu>it wasn't otviai that was building roads
06:51<Samu>out of 8 AIs only 3 managed to start up correctly
06:55<Samu>there are 21 ais that use aircraft
06:58<Samu>managed to make borkai build aircraft
06:58<Samu>his settings aren't too clear, i have to mess around with them
06:59<Samu>otviai wants to build helicopters
06:59<Samu>there aren't any in 1950
06:59<Samu>but he spends all his money on terraforming
07:03<Samu>so borkai has a setting to enable building of buses and trucks
07:03<Samu>i have it unchecked, and yet he still builds roads and tries to build vehicles
07:03<Samu>...
07:04<Samu>if i enable it, it builds aircraft
07:04<Samu>LOGIC!
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07:17<Samu>otviai doesn't like toyland
07:17<Samu>at least in 1950, when it can't build helicopters
07:18<Samu>i picked toyland because aircraft there can transport all cargo, i was opening more options, but 1950 seems to be a problem
07:21<Samu>i need a different testing methodology
07:27<@Alberth>play at a later date, with more types of airport? or do otiviai separately?
07:34<Samu>but for a competition, i wanted to give all AIs the same settings
07:35<Samu>same rules
07:35<Samu>trying to accomodate different server settings for as long as it accomodates most AIs
07:36<Samu>but in the end, i still want them all to go by the same server config
07:36<Samu>if i start in 1960, it must be for all
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07:38<Samu>it misses the small airports and lack of helis if I do that
07:38<Samu>hmm :(
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07:38<Samu>otviai seems to be doing a better start in temperate
07:38<Samu>actually, a better "not starting"
07:39<Samu>he keeps his money, until a later date I guess
07:39<Samu>let's see what he do
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07:41<@Alberth>could perhaps do 2 tests, one for not being able to build, and a "normal" game that starts later
07:41<@Alberth>I agree testing very early is useful too, although likely people selecting aircraft AIs will not play in that era
07:44<Samu>speaking of which, cluelessplus started very well, until the airport upgrade
07:44<Samu>he's struggling in this part
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07:44<Samu>let's see if he survives
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07:46<Samu>BorkAI is building aircraft but also builds roads
07:46<Samu>i dont think he will develop
07:47<Samu>the settings don't help
07:47<Samu>i can't do any better
07:47<@Alberth>or don't help enough :)
07:49<Samu>EpicTrans is the first to go into my list of bankrupted
07:49<Samu>i tried it in different manners
07:50<Samu>toyland, arctic, temperate, tropic, it doesn't have any configurable parameters
07:50<Samu>it builds roads
07:50<Samu>money gone instantly, bankrupted in 1950, that was fast
07:51<@Alberth>Epic! :p
07:51<Samu>im relunctant to test in 1960
07:52<@Alberth>yeah, not much point to try before at least one airport is available
07:57<Samu>dictatorai seems bugged
07:57<Samu>everytime he picks a cargo, it's always TOYS
07:58<Samu>he tries mail, pass, cola
07:58<Samu>but errors that the engine can't use TOYS
07:58<@Alberth>:p
07:58<@Alberth>toys can be moved to towns, which is why it picks that, perhaps
07:58<Samu>will wait till the faster planes
07:59<Samu>if he still doesn't build anything, i guess i'm gonna give up on toyland
08:19<Samu>ditactorai has finally built something
08:19<Samu>guess i'm staying on toyland
08:20<Samu>chopper started building
08:20<Samu>helis became available
08:20<Samu>cluelessplus is past the problematic airport upgrade
08:20<Samu>survived
08:21<Samu>borkai is struggling
08:21<Samu>otviai still did nothing
08:21<Samu>afk lunch time
08:38<Samu>back
08:38<Samu>otviai isn't building
08:38<Samu>giving up on him
08:41<Samu>starting PAXLink, i bet it will fail
08:47<@Alberth>pax should just work, shouldn't it?
08:48<Samu>it relies on bus feeding
08:48<Samu>but im not allowing road vehicles
08:48<@Alberth>ah :)
08:48<@Alberth>sounds like a safe bet then :)
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08:51<Samu>i think i will do another test after aircraft, which I will allow all vehicle types
08:52<Samu>seems fairer for some of the AIs which can't handle only 1 type of vehicles
08:53<Samu>the map layout must be a mix of water, land/hill
08:54<Samu>AdmiralAI is the best performing aircraft AI on this first round
08:55<Samu>in 1962, already with 1300 aircraft, and none are negative
08:55<Samu>£6k profit a quarter and still rising
08:56<Samu>erm €6million, my bad
08:56<Samu>£6m
09:06<Samu>CivilAI doesn't build any airport, i think it depends on buses as well
09:06<Samu>paxlink is in negative, gonna bankrupt soon
09:07<Samu>borkai seems to be slowly digging his grave
09:07<Samu>everytimes he makes money, he builds roads
09:07<Samu>can't build more than 9 aircraft if he keeps doing that
09:08<Samu>paxlink banrupted, ok next
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09:10<Samu>it's nocab
09:11<Samu>i think he will do greatly
09:12<Samu>probably will get a too long to save at some point
09:13<Samu>but still, will try with autosaves first
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09:37<@peter1138>moo
09:37<andythenorth>moo moo
09:37<andythenorth>it’s the sound of moo
09:38<Wolf01>o/
09:38<Wolf01>andy, did you read the interview to Andrew Woodman on brickset?
09:39<andythenorth>nah
09:39<andythenorth>should I?
09:39<Wolf01>Depends on what makes you upset :P
09:40*andythenorth reading it
09:42<Wolf01>I think what he says is the point of view of the company, not really from the designer
09:46<andythenorth>that’s his job :)
09:48<Wolf01>They lost interest in technics, they only go for appearance and he tells the opposite
09:50<Wolf01>You can see even from the Porsche that it's only aestethics, they hid everything
09:50<andythenorth>dunno
09:50<Wolf01>And the mechanism they make often don't work well
09:50<andythenorth>there’s all those people who want loads of panels
09:50<andythenorth>you’re right about some of the mechanisms
09:50<V453000>I shit pixels
09:50<V453000>do you shit pixels?
09:51<andythenorth>not today
09:51<andythenorth>having a rest
09:51<V453000>brain surgeon?
09:51<andythenorth>not usually
09:52<V453000>sure, I will have a beer, thank you for suggesting
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09:58<supermop>yo
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10:22<Samu>civilai bankrupted, time for NoNoCAB
10:29<Wolf01>Parenthesis, they save your life... also I noticed that now the conhost parses again the script at each user/program action, which is really nice
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>Parenthesis is the process by which parents are made?
10:38<Wolf01>Yes, what else
10:38<Wolf01>Did you prefer brackets?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's totally weird. with the radeon driver, vlc has trouble playing back some mpeg (2) files, where other players work fine. with the fglrx driver i did not have that problem
10:44<Samu>borkai is in trouble, will bankrupt
10:51<Samu>admiralai is massing statues, i see
10:51<Samu>i was wondering why his money was kinda low for the amount of profit he has
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10:59<Samu>borkai bankrupted :|
11:00<Samu>Rythorn Airline AI is next
11:13<@Alberth>fast test, this way :p
11:18<Samu>they're still 21 ais
11:18<Samu>5 bankrupted
11:18<Samu>there's 16 yet to test
11:19<Samu>for 100 years, usually 2 days if the servers don't slow down
11:20<Samu>rythorn started with some risk, very long distance aircraft
11:20<Samu>without full load orders
11:20<Samu>after a year it's finally starting to profit
11:20<Samu>so i guess for the first time I get 8 ais profiting
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11:36<Samu>i guess rythorn needs some parameter adjustments, he's selling profitable aircraft, but requires a min of £20000 per year
11:36<Samu>that's just not possible with the early models
11:37<Samu>hmm lets see if he can survive until the better models
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12:11<Wolf01>bbl
12:11<Wolf01>o/
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12:53<andythenorth>cat
12:53<@Alberth>woof
12:53<andythenorth>dogcat
12:54<Samu>rythorn is not gonna make it, time to adjust parameters
12:59<Samu>heh, 5000 /year is minimum i can set to keep aircraft, that's kinda short
12:59<Samu>erm, high
12:59<Samu>I wanted to set even less
13:00<Samu>they were averaging 4000
13:00<Samu>this is not gonna work, there's not much else i can change
13:02<Samu>min town size to build an airport is the only other setting i can meddle with
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13:04<Samu>AIAI crashed
13:04<Samu>Your script made an error: assertion failed
13:04<Samu>ok reporting
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13:05<@Alberth>quak
13:12<andythenorth>my game hit boredom point :P
13:12<andythenorth>1890-1937
13:12*andythenorth rarely manages more than 60 years
13:12<andythenorth>maybe it’s because I choose small maps
13:13<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=47298&p=1174991#p1174991
13:13<Samu>reported
13:13<andythenorth>once I hit the industry funding stage, I start to lose interest
13:13<frosch123>hoi
13:13<Samu>looks like a similar error
13:14<frosch123>andythenorth: suggest on forums to make the game faster
13:14<andythenorth>shorter daylength?
13:14<frosch123>:p
13:16<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7970/50-years.png
13:16<andythenorth>the big cities are starting to make building train routes non-viable
13:16<andythenorth>ships are boring
13:16<andythenorth>and I’m prospecting arable farms (green) to try and meet a BB goal for the brewery (yellow)
13:18<andythenorth>not going well
13:18<Samu>starting simpleai
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13:20<andythenorth>biab
13:20<andythenorth>moar GS needed :)
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13:28<Samu>nocab is still saving
13:28<Samu>interesting
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13:29<Samu>looks like admiralai got bored of massing statues
13:30<Samu>he's building more aircraft
13:31<Samu>massed statues for 5 years straight
13:31<Samu>:)
13:32<Samu>cluelessplus weakness are the upgrades it seems
13:33<Samu>his profit goes down
13:33<Samu>he upgraded his aircraft just now and it impacted the profit graph
13:33<Samu>but he's safe
13:33<Samu>won't die for it
13:35<Samu>rythorn, with £5k min profit per year per aircraft is doing better now, i think it's enough for him to survive till the better planes
13:44<tycoondemon>may I ask, can I ask o ask a question?
13:45<tycoondemon>*to
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13:55<Samu>admiralai is building more statues, heh, i wonder when will he run out of towns
13:55<@Alberth>depending on map size and town density... that may be a while :p
13:57<Samu>map is 1024x1024, high number of towns
13:57<Samu>let me see how many
13:58<Samu>i think it's 768 towns
13:59<Samu>how can i tell for sure how many towns are there
13:59<@Alberth>if it's not in the town list, I wouldn't know
14:00<Samu>town directory doesn't say how many towns there are, only world population
14:00<@Alberth>but 800 sounds a good estimate
14:00<@Alberth>*like
14:01<Samu>nocab still saving
14:02<Samu>he's over 2400 aircraft, and still saving, that's unexpected
14:11<Samu>rythorn profit graph is stagnated, but hopefully that's enough till the newer models, just around next year
14:11<Samu>at least it's profiting, not in the negative
14:21<Samu>nocab seems stuck
14:21<Samu>dbg: [script] [0] [W] WARNING: Demolishing connection from Plardston Sweet Factory to Funhattan Sweet Factory
14:21<Samu>always this...
14:22<Samu>nice, it unstucked
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14:30<andythenorth>well
14:30<andythenorth>when BB gives me a mail or pax goal in small town, I want fast growth
14:30<andythenorth>but when a town is too big, it blocks the map
14:30*andythenorth is never happy eh? :)
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>just remove a few buildings and buy the land, then come back after a few months when the rating recovered
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>it goes pretty quick if you have a bus/tram network
14:35<andythenorth>I have to use that road-removing ‘cheat’ I think
14:36<andythenorth>the one that lets me demolish connected road tiles
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a cheat... that's just common sense
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>turning that off is just masochism. that's your own fault
14:36<andythenorth>ingrained play style
14:36<andythenorth>habits take time to break :P
14:38<andythenorth>but anyway
14:38<andythenorth>some kind of Ultimate GS is needed
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14:38<andythenorth>BB gets me about 40-75 years of fun
14:40<andythenorth>Ultimate will turn out to be full of totally flawed ideas
14:40<andythenorth>but that’s par for the course
14:40<supermop>eminent domain gs that demolishes swathes of town for you
14:40<andythenorth>town schmown
14:41<andythenorth>I should just turn down town growth rate
14:41<andythenorth>moar goals needed
14:41<supermop>should i buy a ps4 for this space game?>
14:41<andythenorth>probably
14:43<supermop>can i build trains on the planets?
14:43<supermop>if not why bother
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>the problem i have with procedurally created content is that over longer times, everything will look kinda the same
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>also, isn't a PC release scheduled like today?
14:51<supermop>there is no way my computer could run that
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>them rather invest in a proper PC
14:52<supermop>a few hundred bucks on a ps4 is the more economical solution, though it means getting my old tv out of storage
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>it might be cheaper, but economical?
14:53<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: should but do not have the cash on hand
14:53<MonkeyDrone>No Man's Sky?
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14:54<supermop>still need to buy airfare for a trip in October too
14:54<MonkeyDrone>i am looking forward to 'Limit Theory', game concept was nice,something i can chill on as well but no idea when it releases >.<
14:56<supermop>and be sure to have enough set aside for rent next month, and any beers between now and then
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>if not having enough for rent is an actual possibility, maybe you should aim for cheaper ways of entertainment than a full price game
15:07<MonkeyDrone>No Man's sky on steam now, $60. NOPE.JPG
15:07<supermop>the game isn't that expensive compared to rent, but the cost of a suitably well performing computer is
15:08<supermop>i pay about 1350 usd /mo, and i assume i'd pay nearly double that were i to build a new workstation
15:10<MonkeyDrone>how much % of income is going on rent is the real question
15:10<MonkeyDrone>1350 to someone making 10k would be not much :P
15:10<supermop>maybe less, i am not sure, but i'd want any desktop computer taking up space in my apartment to be a reasonably well performing machine for design work as well
15:11<supermop>MonkeyDrone: if i was making 10,000 usd/mo i would not be worried about the computer taking up space in an apartment
15:11<MonkeyDrone>haha, well you said $60 isn't much, but it's all subjectice in the end
15:11<supermop>and likely my life would be such that i'd never have the time nor want to even think about buying a game
15:12<MonkeyDrone>well , depends on how you make that $10k
15:12<supermop>as either i'd have some lavish lifestyle, or i'd be so busy with work that gaming would never be an option
15:12<MonkeyDrone>nah
15:12<MonkeyDrone>i've seen rich people here who live pretty normal lives
15:12<MonkeyDrone>fracking millionaires but still got a normal size house, normal cars, none of that luxury high end stuff
15:13<MonkeyDrone>and just go about doing normal life stuff
15:13<supermop>if i had that kind of cash in new york city, i wouldn't care about the game
15:13<supermop>i'd just be travelling as often as my job would let me take time off
15:13<MonkeyDrone>hah, well then, you sure are in a different spotlight
15:14<supermop>my wife actually makes something closer to that before taxes,
15:14<supermop>and that essentially is her goal. travel as much as possible, work as much as possible
15:15<supermop>she has her job, a freelance side job, and pro bono data science work for a non-profit, that take up all her time, except for what she sets aside for travel
15:16<supermop>between my lower pay and fewer vacation days i don't get to go on all of the trips
15:17<supermop>also wife might be more willing to go in on the cost of a ps4 than a desktop as at least two people can easily use the ps4 at the same time
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>yay, free weekend on goat simulator. and the first achievement i get is "the game crashed" :p
15:18<supermop>goat simulator? does it eat digital garbage?
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>something like that
15:19<supermop>train you for goat ownership?
15:20<supermop>ok leaving office
15:20<supermop>summer fridays
15:21<supermop>later everyone
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16:06<Samu>chopper is stuck, log message is spamming ERR_UNKNOWN
16:06<debdog>maybe an airhole
16:07<Samu> Found an airport to upgrade: Lonthill City Airport, and then ERR_UNKNOWN
16:07<Samu>let me check that airport
16:08<Samu>there is a helicopter in the hangar, maybe that's why?
16:08<Samu>it's stopped inside hangar
16:09<Samu>i guess chopper is stuck forever
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>this game is way silly :p
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>i thought i was playing goat simulator, but it's actually i am bread simulator :p
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16:33<Eddi|zuHause>anyone know how i turn back into a goat? :p
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17:28<MonkeyDrone>goondight homies
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18:37<Samu>cat simulator, does it exist?
18:40<ST2>thank you google ^^ http://store.steampowered.com/app/393390
18:58<Samu>break things? my cats don't do that
18:58<Samu>well, they rarely do
18:58*NGC3982 does.
18:58<Samu>when they do it, they just hide in the smallest hole they can find as quick as they can
19:00<NGC3982>Our two cats break stuff rarely, but when they do - It's usually due to some fart causing panic and -total mayhem-.
19:00<NGC3982>Like full on chairs and tables everywhere.
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19:15<Samu>oh really? to change steam language i need a steam account? no thx
19:15<Samu>stupid website
19:16<ST2>something like this... http://store.steampowered.com/app/393390/?l=portuguese
19:52<Samu>that's what it defaults to
19:53<Wolf01>Soooo... I went full retard, or I broke the game... enough vegetable cultivations to satisfy 200 people, they decay in <1m and people starve to death :|
19:55<Wolf01>They have enough water, they are already almost half decayed as soon as I build them, I can't understand why
19:55<Wolf01>(planetbase)
19:56<Samu>nocab autosaves still working
19:56<Samu>3472 aircraft
19:56<Samu>i'm surprised
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>need a fridge
19:58<Samu>some ais prefer the fastest aircraft, others prefer the capacious aircraft
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>(or garden soil/fertilizer)
19:58<Wolf01>No, the plants decay and I can't even get the first batch of products
19:59<Samu>and then there's admiralai with his weird choices
19:59<Wolf01>Nah, no such thing in the game, just water and biologists
20:01<Wolf01>Biologists are running like mad because they can't cope with the decaying plants, the strange thing is that at the beginning I had 2 of them keeping the entire bio-sphere, now that I have 25 of them they can't keep 3 bio-spheres
20:04<Samu>all the current 8 running aircraft AIs are being successful
20:04<Samu>NoCAB, DictatorAI, CluelessPlus, NoNoCAB, Chopper, Rythorn Airline AI, SimpleAI and AdmiralAI
20:05<Samu>Chopper however is stuck, but still his currently helis are doing good
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like things are not getting where they need to be
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20:29<Samu>path of exile patch, a little big
20:32<Wolf01>'night
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22:43<ElleKitty>*waves waves to alask0ud!* Nice to have you here!
22:44<alask0ud>Even nicer to have such welcome :')
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 13 00:00:46 2016