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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-15

---Logopened Mon Aug 15 00:00:49 2016
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04:53<argoneus>good morning train friends
04:54<V453000>fuck tranez
04:55<V453000>trains are evil
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05:07<@peter1138>tanks are where it's at anyway
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05:14<Alkel_U3>trains are taking over
05:17<@peter1138>shoop da whoop
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06:56<argoneus>V453000: no u
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07:43<Samu>2040, 2042, 1955, 2035, 2029, 2020, 1999
07:44<Samu>the last 7 aircraft ais
07:44<Wolf01>Bethesda: war does not change; Blizzard: war change at least once every month
07:44<Samu>i expect at least 4 will finish today
07:45<Flygon>Wolf01: Gravity - War of Emperium.
07:46<Wolf01>Mmmh, season 7 on Diablo 3
07:48<Wolf01>Did you already start the season?
07:48<argoneus>wolf sorry
07:48<argoneus>my life is dedicated to overcuck
07:48<argoneus>for now
07:49<argoneus>do you play that game
07:49<Wolf01>No, I'll do in future, but not soon
07:49<Flygon><argoneus> my life is dedicated to overcuck
07:49<Flygon><argoneus> for now
07:50<Flygon>Shh, I'm making obscure jokes
07:50<argoneus>Flygon: explain
07:50<Flygon>tl;dr furries
07:50<argoneus>some internet famous person
07:50<argoneus>I see
07:51<Wolf01>Good, boiling water has finished the download, I can play Diablo
07:51<V453000>overcock \o/
07:51<argoneus>thanks Flygon
07:51<Flygon>V453000: Let's not make shit too furry, dude
07:52<argoneus>I now have furry forums in my history
07:52<Flygon>I am forever corrupting #openttd!
07:52<Flygon>...I wanna play OpenTTD
07:52<Flygon>But I've got too much work to work on >_>
07:52<@peter1138>what are all you pesky kids on about?
07:52<Flygon>peter1138: Well, I'm currently being paid by the hour
07:53<Flygon>And I'm talking in #openttd...
07:53<Flygon>But I have a moral compass, so
07:53<Flygon>brb for several minutes :x
07:53<Wolf01>Which poor hero should I annoy this time? I'll go with a mage but the set looks one I could make at the forge by myself :/
07:53<argoneus>oh wait
07:53<argoneus>I have Mercy's wings
07:53<argoneus>maybe I could play some badass looking dude now
07:58<Wolf01>The witch doctor could cause havoc, but I'm not a huge fan
07:58<Wolf01>I think I'll go with the mage
07:59<Wolf01>I have this poor mage which already got reset twice and then I changed idea before getting the stuff XD
08:02<V453000>how long does it take you guys to get to lvl70?
08:03<Wolf01>I play solo, usually 3-4 days
08:03<V453000>I feel like when I start a d3 char, it takes me so long to get to max level that I can't really enjoy playing it much further after that, even though that's where the game kind of starts
08:03<Wolf01>I only play seasons and rifts
08:08<MonkeyDrone>V453000: D3 has nothing to offer in gameplay wise :P
08:08<MonkeyDrone>it's just mindless bashing , hehe
08:08<MonkeyDrone>i gaveup on it 2 seasons ago
08:09<MonkeyDrone>new season started recently, can probably get plvled to 70 in an hour or under 30 mins
08:09<V453000>I loved the 0-70 campaign
08:09<MonkeyDrone>oh i enjoyed the game too
08:09<V453000>but then you can let a bot do it for you
08:09<MonkeyDrone>but there's only so much to do in D3
08:10<MonkeyDrone>V453000: oh i did let a bot play the last season, 2 seasons ago and i learned a lot from it
08:10<MonkeyDrone>the drop rate is utterly bullshit in that game
08:10<MonkeyDrone>so i switched to Grim Dawn
08:14<MonkeyDrone>if blizzard knows one thing, they know how to get the lore really well done
08:14<MonkeyDrone>though their movie....that's a whole different thing
08:17<frosch123>if in doubt, it's because of old gods
08:19<MonkeyDrone>Zeus at it again? =O
08:21<V453000>grim dawn looks interesting yeah
08:21<V453000>but when I was considering to play a RPG again, I just bought dungeon siege 2 on steam
08:22<MonkeyDrone>i've never played that game, isn't that an old game
08:22<V453000>I like to have a party of 4-6 chars and combine those
08:22<V453000>it is quite old yes
08:22<MonkeyDrone>2005, not that old
08:22<V453000>grim dawn is at least nice that you can combine 2 classes into 1
08:22<MonkeyDrone>then again i'm older, harrr
08:22<V453000>is that it, right?
08:22<MonkeyDrone>yes, grim dawn you combine two, make hybrids
08:23<MonkeyDrone>but the MP of that game is not very solid
08:23<MonkeyDrone>you need to find people near your same level or else it gets very one sided , the game that is
08:24<MonkeyDrone>i have been pretty disappointed with the MP aspect of Grim Dawn.
08:24<V453000>mhm well it's not like DS2 multiplayer is even functional I don't think :D
08:25<MonkeyDrone>i just read up on that, DS2 MP has been disabled :P
08:26<V453000> /care :)
08:26<V453000>I just managed to finish 1 playthrough anyway
08:26<V453000>no time for more
08:26<V453000>playthrough 3 is where it usually starts being really great
08:26<MonkeyDrone>that i understand
08:26<V453000>but yeah, it's just old, but I was missing the multi-person group RPG
08:27<MonkeyDrone>time is a commodity we have less and less of over time
08:27<V453000>dragon age is just slow paced as fuck
08:27<MonkeyDrone>have not played that either
08:27<MonkeyDrone>while you played all those games, i think i spent most of my time on WoW
08:27<Wolf01>meh, I'm already stuck... I can't kill anyuthing, no good weapons and no money to purchase better weapons :(
08:28<V453000>how do you get stuck in D3?
08:28<Wolf01>Leveling too fast
08:29<Wolf01>Maybe I shouldn't start at master difficulty
08:29<MonkeyDrone>Wolf01: tag along some groups, leech em good
08:30<MonkeyDrone>my D3 update is waiting on another installation, everything else is up to date...
08:30<Wolf01>Bnet client?
08:30<MonkeyDrone>yes bnet client
08:30<MonkeyDrone>what else is there?
08:31<MonkeyDrone>alright , my hots game started,
08:31<MonkeyDrone>morales <3
08:34<Wolf01>Yeah, killed an elite, got armor, 0.3 dmg more <3
08:35<MonkeyDrone>getting rekt
08:36<MonkeyDrone>well this is a good reminder why i don't paly this game as much anymore
08:36<MonkeyDrone>bunch of solo wankers
08:39<MonkeyDrone>lost our tier 2 towers and we have not even gotten one of their tier 1... :D hell yeah
08:40<MonkeyDrone>9 mins and core at 8% :D
08:42<MonkeyDrone> :D
08:44<MonkeyDrone> so tempting
09:02<V453000>ye nope
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09:03<MonkeyDrone>y the hate bro
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09:26<V453000>idk I just had some strange feeling of respect towards wow that I never wanted to get into it, at all
09:26<V453000>probably seeing the time investment
09:26<V453000>[he said and spent thousands of hours with openttd]
09:28<Alkel_U3>actually playing or creating stuff? :D
09:29<Alkel_U3>I'm also kinda nervous about getting into such games. Dwarf Fortress is bad enough
09:29<Alkel_U3>also that
09:32<V453000>eh, first I spent a fuckload playing, after that creating newgrfs
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10:04<Samu> - discuss
10:05<idl0r>V453000: are you planning to upgrade or enhance your newgrf guide by chance? :P
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10:18<V453000>idl0r: probably not, definitely not anytime soon
10:18<V453000>the base ideas area still valid, and updating it with every possible newgrf there is nowadays is kind of tedious
10:24<idl0r>i just wanted to have vanilla openttd with newgrf but it turned out to be more difficult and so i gave up for now
10:25<idl0r>i can't play the 8bit stuff anymore for some reason :(
10:25<V453000>how exactly do you imagine vanilla with newgrf? :D sounds like an contradiction
10:25<idl0r>well, replace all default 8 bit/opengfx with 32bit newgrf ones
10:25<V453000>well these sets simply don't exist
10:25<V453000>there is the 32bpp set zbase
10:25<V453000>but it's quality is so bad
10:26<V453000>I am currently working on a NewGRF which only replaces graphics of terrain, rails, roads, bridges, trees and vehicles
10:26<V453000>eventually all game graphics hopefully
10:28<idl0r>it's really difficult to figure out what you need at all if you haven't been following the development or if you have not even played for some years :(
10:28<V453000>isn't learning that stuff part of the fun? :)
10:29<V453000>and I don't think the development is making massively big differences and turns so you can still expect a newgrf to work reasonably same way if you already know it
10:30<idl0r>when i played back then there was no newgrf IIRC
10:30<V453000>right :)
10:30<V453000>well, depends what type of game you want
10:31<V453000>if you want gameplay options, NUTS trains are the shit
10:32<Wolf01>Level 20 :|
10:32<idl0r>i'd prefer european stuff, esp. german / DB but that's optinal. what i actually want is 32bit instead of 8 because i cannot see those 8 bit graphics anymore :(
10:32<V453000>only 32bpp trains there are, is pineapple trains, chinese trains, and NUTS has some 32bpp trains, but not all
10:33<V453000>that's all the choice you have if you require 32bpp
10:33<idl0r>so there's stuff called newgrf but still using 8 bit?
10:33<V453000>everything is newgrf
10:33<V453000>that's how "mods" are called
10:33<idl0r>oh, ok
10:33<idl0r>so i misunderstood it then
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10:34<idl0r>i thought that's (more or less) implicit 32 bit
10:35<V453000>for years NewGRFs had only 8bpp
10:36<V453000>even now 8bpp is mandatory, you must define those sprites (even though pineapple trains define broken placeholders there)
10:36<V453000>32bpp is a bonus
10:36<V453000>the reality is that there is one shitty base set, pineapple trains, and a few tiny newgrfs in 32bpp
10:37<V453000>I am currently working on BRIX - a 32bpp/extra zoom set which aims to do this shit properly ...
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10:38<idl0r>wow, that looks great
10:39<V453000>I am working on vehicles recently ... hopefully done in a few weeks time
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10:45<stefino_cz>hey guys
10:46<Wolf01>Oh, finally unlocked the death ray, now its downhill from here
10:52<frosch123>that sounds like c&c, not like diablo
10:53<Wolf01>It's like havina an ion cannon on your hands
10:54<stefino_cz>I have some troubles with articulated syntax. Wanna to make 2 trams in one vehicle group. Trams are quite long so I have there short invisible blocks to make leght what I need. Trams are good but somewhere is a mistake cause it gives a bus in base graphic ahead of these trams. Can someone tell me what's wrong? Thanks. Img and code under this mess
10:56<frosch123>well, you did not define any graphics for
10:57<frosch123> 0: return item_invisible_1; <- that does not work, the first part is always item_tram_tatra_t3_double
11:00<V453000>is tram articulation different to trains?
11:01<V453000>guess I never tried to re-define the 0th vehicle
11:05<Samu>omg i forgot to save nocab
11:05<Samu>it's past 1 jan 2051
11:05<Samu>time to repeat
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11:46<Samu>rise of the tomb radeon
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11:50<Wolf01>Level 33 is enough for today
11:51<MonkeyDrone>Wolf, how long have you played d3?
11:51<Wolf01>Not much, maube 200 hours
11:51<@Alberth>infinitely long
11:52<MonkeyDrone>Ahhh, that's nothing.
11:52<MonkeyDrone>I heard it has new torment levels now, i should try it
11:52<Wolf01>I never got past T8
11:52<MonkeyDrone>Probably get plvled tonight
11:53<MonkeyDrone>Ah, it's easy to do torments when you go with meta builds
11:53<MonkeyDrone>Otherwise you ain't getting anywhere inthat game, it's all about the meta
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11:54<MonkeyDrone>I wonder what build barbs are running this seasob
11:54<Wolf01>Yeah, I have the monk and the demon hunter with full sets of the last 2 seasons
11:54<Wolf01>Without the sets I reached at most T2
11:54<MonkeyDrone>I always and only play barb. Don't enjoy anything else
11:55<Wolf01>I tried them all
11:55<MonkeyDrone>Me too, barb 4 life
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12:10<stefino_cz>frosch123 : yeah, that's the thing what I tried . But there was still this bus. I rewrited it - I have item_tatra_t3_double with "invisible" graphic like the first sprite in the row
12:12<frosch123>your screenshot also had one articulated part more than the screenshot
12:12<frosch123>the articulated stuff takes effect when bulding the vehicle, so make sure to not just update the grf in a savegame
12:13<stefino_cz>I try it again so give me the minute to try it :)
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12:16<stefino_cz>maybe one that graphics definition true? You wrote that there is no graphics definition so I added "default" -> graphics { default: spriteset_invisible_1; articulated_part: switch_articulated_t3; cargo_capacity: switch_capacity_t3; }
12:18<frosch123>yes, the articulated vehicle is itself the first vehicle in the chain
12:18<stefino_cz>aaah nice :) it works :)
12:19<stefino_cz>thank you frosch :)
12:19<frosch123>Alberth: <- drawing of complete articulated vehicles when dragging in depot or vehicle list
12:20<frosch123>i am not sure how to "center" long articulated vehicles though
12:20<frosch123>like 15-wagon heqs trams and such
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12:24<frosch123> <- no idea where the "focus" of that "cursor" should be :)
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12:28<frosch123>hmm, i could limit it to the depot cell size
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12:32<stefino_cz>My development :)
12:33<@Alberth>where you grab it ?
12:34<frosch123>i mean the point where you drop it
12:34<frosch123>stefino_cz: more zoomed vehicles :)
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12:36<stefino_cz>frosch - mmm, yeah, have "bug" with drop that set
12:37<frosch123>do you mean "invisiblitity when dragging"?
12:37<frosch123>i was about to "fix" that in ottd anyway
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12:38<frosch123>it's also needed for other stuff :)
12:38<stefino_cz>it's only "look" bug but it will be good to fix that
12:39<Wolf01>How cute, and just thinking how me and andy are going to break all that stuff :P
12:39<@Alberth>haha, I never realized, but using ZZZzzzz to express "busy" :p
12:40<@Alberth>frosch123: 40: typo in commit message Perpare
12:43<frosch123>i limited it to only the first few vehicles (16/16 length), looks better now :)
12:43<Samu>i thought it was a cursor for actic tileset
12:44<@Alberth>40 + _cursor.sprite_pos[0].x = _cursor.sprite_pos[0].y = 0; <-- make that 2 assignments?
12:51<@Alberth>nice patch, frosch123
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12:51<frosch123>thanks for checking :)
12:51<frosch123>next up: stacked vehicle sprites :p
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13:08<Samu>today's match history
13:08<Samu>3 wins 8 losses
13:08<Samu>trans reached 2051
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13:31<Samu>admiralai server is slow with aircraft
13:31<Samu>what is wrong
13:32<@Alberth>perhaps the AI itself is using a lot of CPU ?
13:33<Samu>yes i think so, but why
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13:39<MonkeyDrone>aaaah so lazy today
13:39<MonkeyDrone>someone get me some cookies please
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14:30<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27625 trunk/src/gfx_type.h (2016-08-15 20:30:50 +0200 )
14:30<@DorpsGek>-Doc: CursorVars
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27626 trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp (2016-08-15 20:32:25 +0200 )
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Do not use the cursor sprite as PlaceObject status in the main toolbar.
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27627 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2016-08-15 20:32:48 +0200 )
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Deduplicate some cursor magic into SetMouseCursorBusy.
14:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27628 /trunk/src (5 files) (2016-08-15 20:33:08 +0200 )
14:33<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Prepare for drawing cursors consisting of multiple sprites.
14:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27629 trunk/src/train_gui.cpp (2016-08-15 20:33:29 +0200 )
14:33<@DorpsGek>-Fix: When dragging multiple vehicles in the depot, make the destination gap as long as the chain instead of just considering the first vehicle.
14:33<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27630 /trunk/src (4 files) (2016-08-15 20:33:52 +0200 )
14:33<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Deduplicate code to attach vehicle to cursor.
14:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27631 /trunk/src (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h) (2016-08-15 20:34:09 +0200 )
14:34<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Split GetSingleVehicleWidth from GetVehicleWidth.
14:34<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27632 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2016-08-15 20:34:31 +0200 )
14:34<@DorpsGek>-Feature: When dragging vehicles in group or depot GUI, draw the complete articulated vehicle.
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14:55<Wolf01>Does it work with a mammoth train?
14:56<frosch123>i actually cut it before 24/16 vehicle length
14:57<frosch123> <- the first try to draw all turned out hard-to-use :)
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14:58*Wolf01 remembers cometcursors
14:58<frosch123>i had some of them earlier today :)
15:00<frosch123>if someone cares, you can also experiment with drawing the arrow mouse cursor in addition to the vehicle
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15:03<Wolf01>About drawing, I should need to fix the station picker
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15:12<MonkeyDrone>omg, anyone here any good at nginx, he's trolling me >.<
15:14<Wolf01>Hell yeah, found the fix, now I only need to explain the "+2"
15:14<frosch123>static const int TWO = 2; <- that will document it
15:15<Wolf01>The "widget" was passed as "sprite number", which indeed was different for the road since I removed the bays for trams
15:16<Wolf01>I think I'll change the StationPickerDrawSprite function
15:16<Wolf01>Touching rail_gui, road_gui, station_func, waypoint...
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15:24<Wolf01>It would be easier to duplicate the _station_display_datas_truck and _station_display_datas_bus for lightrail
15:26<debdog>in a train set "DB Set XL" is mentioned but I cannot find it on the NewGRF list. is there a way to figure out why it has been removed?
15:27<frosch123>you have to download it from the private site from the owner
15:27<frosch123>you can get there via the "search external websites" in ottd content download
15:27<debdog> found it. I thought, if it's not listed there might be issues
15:28<frosch123>no technical ones :)
15:28<debdog>aight, thanks
15:36<Wolf01>Too much to change, better leaving the + 2 there
15:39<Wolf01>Or I could invert the widgets on the road_gui too and the indexes on station_land
15:40<Wolf01>And it will explode when drawing on the tile
15:43<Samu>wormai reached 2051
15:43<Samu>4 ais remain
15:44<Samu>admiralai, nocab, nonocab, wrightai
15:44<Samu>admiralai was one of the first to start, seems it's going to be the last to finish
15:44<Samu>server slow
15:51<Wolf01>A question I forgot to ask yesterday: should I commit even the projects after I regenerate them when adding source files?
15:53<frosch123>in trunk we do :)
15:54<Wolf01>Good point
15:55<Wolf01>I still need to figure out how to set the includes and libraries without changing the default project
16:02<Wolf01>Everything points me toward the document which says to use the .user property sheet (and the page says its deprecated)
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16:06<+glx>Wolf01: I use user.props files in c:\users\<username>\AppData\Local\Microsoft\MSBuild\v4.0
16:07<Wolf01>Which is bad because it's global for the machine, and that's why they deprecated it
16:08<Wolf01>For example, you might need different version of the same library
16:08<Wolf01>I just want to have one local user.props ignored by vcs
16:08<+glx>yes I have some magic in it for OTTD essentials depending on visual studio version :)
16:10<MonkeyDrone>i do say WoW graphics have improved considerably with the new AA options
16:10<+glx>and for me it's easier to have a global setting so I can have many trunk dirs
16:10<+glx>without configuring each of them manually
16:10<Wolf01>Yes, but I work on at least 3 other different projects :P
16:10<Wolf01>Not just manu ottd patches
16:11<+glx>I think you can use .user in projects dir
16:12<Wolf01>I added a custom property sheet now
16:13<Wolf01>as .user was there only for vc80/90
16:14<Wolf01>I still need to import it on every regeneration
16:17<+glx>vcxproj.user should work, it's listed on
16:24<Wolf01>No, it doesn't get loaded automatically
16:25<Wolf01>I named it "openttd_vs140.vcxproj.user"
16:26<Wolf01>And put into it the same properties of the custom property sheet I made before
16:29<Wolf01>But it seem to compile even if does not show the changes
16:34<+glx>I think the properties in vcxproj.user are merged into properties of vcxproj
16:34<Wolf01>Yes, seem so
16:35<Wolf01>It usually shows the non default properties in bold
16:35<Wolf01>Not this time
16:35<+glx>and vcxproj.user is created if you modify some debug properties if the file doesn't exist
16:35<Wolf01>But if I evaluate the vars, the path of the essentials is there
16:36<+glx>like command line or working dir
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16:38<Wolf01>Ok, so it seem this problem is resolved too
16:38<Wolf01>Thx glx
16:39<+glx>until next time MS decides to change how things work :)
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17:36<Samu>only 3 ais remain, they won't finish today
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19:13<debdog>I have an odd situation here. built a station next to a power station which demands coal and oil. the station, though, only accepts coal.
19:13<debdog>the oil filled trains leave the station without unloading
19:13<debdog>, of course
19:15<debdog>I wonder if I made a booboo in some way? or might this be a bug? OTTD version is 1.5.3
19:18<_dp_>debdog, sometimes only specific industry tiles accept cargo. I don't remember how it is in ecs but it probably accepts oil on other side
19:21<debdog>_dp_: thanks, that thought came up here, too. disregarded it, though. I'll try...
19:22<debdog>_dp_: built another staion on the other side and it demands coal, pass., vehicles and oil \o/
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---Logclosed Tue Aug 16 00:00:50 2016