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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-19

---Logopened Fri Aug 19 00:00:57 2016
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07:12<andythenorth_>"Ship Cat" or "Ship's Cat"? o_O
07:18<Wolf01>Cat ship
07:24<andythenorth_>Hmm. Brit set curse strikes again
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07:31<andythenorth_>Polydactal Cat is my preferred name, but hard to spell :p
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07:34<Wolf01>They will tear you to pieces with so many claws
07:36<andythenorth_>Is Ship Cat
07:36*andythenorth_ choosing names
07:36<andythenorth_>Is hard
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07:41<Wolf01>\o/ ETR300 back in service
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08:27<Eddi|zuHause>and what were they out of service for?
08:29<Wolf01>They made their time, now the ones which are recoverable will be used as tourist luxury trains
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08:31<andythenorth_> V453000 can I call my ship set Able Seacat Simon?
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08:34<Eddi|zuHause>have i ever complained that your "names" are several degrees too far removed?
08:35<Wolf01>Call it catoblepa
08:36<andythenorth_>Eddi maybe once
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08:43*andythenorth_ lost in wikipedia again
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08:47<Wolf01>Are you sure you are on holiday?
08:52<andythen_>I get bored doing nothing :p
08:53<Wolf01>Next holiday you can come here
08:53<Wolf01>It's even full of lego events on summer
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12:41<andythenorth_>Ship Cat
12:50<@Alberth>cats hate water :p
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12:53<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: that's why they invented ships?
12:53<@Alberth>quite possibly
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13:14<@Alberth>nice :)
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13:24<supermop_>i am not liking v ray
13:25<supermop_>why does a material have no inherent size
13:26<supermop_>if i have some bumpy plaster and apply it to a wall 1 meter x 2 meters, it will look totally different than if i apply to a wall 10 meters x 2 meters
13:32<supermop_>if i want to add a light i cant insert a linear light of 1 meter and say, this is a flourescent tube, 1 meter long, X number of watts, Y Kelvin in color
13:32<supermop_>i have to make a material that glows
13:32<supermop_>idk how you'd use ies files
13:33<supermop_>V453000: can I not have like a wood grain that doesn't need to be re-mapped everytime i apply it to a differently sized object?
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13:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think you should use minecraft to model your buildings
13:38<supermop_>client might not be satisfied when blocky building doesn't fit on non rectangular site
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14:01<Samu>nocab is about to finish
14:01<Samu>any minute
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14:03<Samu>only 1 ai remains
14:03<Samu>admiralai, 2035
14:04<Samu>by the look of it, it will need 3 more days, maybe 4
14:04<Samu>server too slow
14:09<Samu>and by the look of it, it is also going to win the aircraft ai competition
14:10<Samu>erm, maybe not in all metrics
14:10<Samu>but in company value at least
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14:34<Samu>hmm, nocab did better than nonocab
14:35<Samu>they seem to do different than each other
14:37<Samu>nonocab went with a "stategy" of less, but high profits
14:37<Samu>nocab went with more, but less profits
14:37<Samu>nocab tactic ended up beating nonocab in company value and profits
14:38<Samu>nonocab has a much better income per aircraft
14:39<Samu>1700 aircraft vs 5000
14:42<Samu>wrightai has actually beaten some more complex ais
14:42<Samu>beats cluelessplus
14:43<Samu>beats chopper
14:43<Samu>beats dictatorai
14:43<Samu>ah, actually not
14:43<Samu>not dictactor
14:43<Samu>beats trans
14:44<Samu>syntrans is an odd ai
14:44<Samu>very low company value, but quite strong profits
14:45<Samu>i wonder how he spends the money, what does he make that it is always low on money
14:46<Samu>syntrans got a 100% ratio served airports
14:46<Samu>that takes him 1st on that metric
14:46<@Rubidium>Samu: being low on money isn't necessarily a bad sign; if you want, as a human, to have the fastest growth then spending money on new trains/better infrastructure is the way to go. Any money that is not spent is wasted
14:47<Samu>i don't know, he earns quite a lot per year
14:47<Samu>how does he also spend that same amount
14:49<Samu>he's taking last place for company value
14:49<Samu>£353M company value
14:49<Samu>worse than tracai with £424M
14:50<Samu>tracai does a £5M /year
14:52<frosch123>"if you are rich, you are bad"
14:52<frosch123>[at starcraft]
14:52<Samu>ah :)
14:54<Samu>tracai 44 aircraft, syntrans 3060 aircraft
14:55<Samu>you see, it's odd that syntrans company value is too low
14:56<Samu>AI name (version); company value; profitable acs; served stations; best last years; best ac; avg/ac
14:56<Samu>SynTrans (v15); £353,313,130; 1,646/3,060; 347/ 347; +£64,049,661; £173,477; £20,931
14:56<Samu>TracAI (v1); £424,021,661; 42/ 44; 43/ 505; +£5,966,935; £346,075; £135,612
15:05<Samu>cluelessplus underperformed. i was expecting better
15:06<Samu>it uses 1 airport for upgrading his entire planes
15:06<Samu>i saw 100's aircraft waiting to land just to get to the depot
15:07<Samu>it delays everything else, waiting cargo, industries lowering production
15:07<Samu>hmm actually i dont remember if he used aircraft for industries, must rechck
15:08<Samu>nop, he doesn't
15:10<Samu>trans also underperformed somehow
15:11<Samu>he didn't do that bad, but in comparison with other AIs which are quite simplistic like wrightai and rythorn
15:11<Samu>he did worse
15:12<Samu>he got the worst average per aircraft, other than chopper, but chopper is only using helicopters, so it's normal
15:13<Samu>afk dinner
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15:57<Samu>i have an idea
15:57<Samu>there should be a way to restart an ai
15:57<Samu>but without having his company gone
15:58<Samu>if an AI crashes, just restart it immediately when it crashed, to give a feeling that the AI never stopped
15:58<Samu>could it be done?
15:59<Samu>there is a way to do this with saving then loading, but it's not practical
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16:02<Samu>similar to how IE browser tabs crash, IE just restarts that tab without actually crashing the whole IE
16:05<@Alberth>many AIs don't understand it when you give them infra structure that they didn't build
16:06<@Alberth>so if you restart the AI, it found all kinds of old infra structure that it knows nothing about
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16:19<Samu>gonna try changing something in visual studio
16:19<Samu>see if i can make a script restart itself on crash
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16:41<Wormnest>Samu: I think I saw a patch on the bugtracker from years ago that supposedly does something like that IIRC
16:43<Samu>oh nice, must find
16:44<Wormnest>at least a way to restart not auto restart a crashed ai I think but you may be able to use it
16:57<Samu>hmm i think i did it, i used rocketai which crashes early
16:57<Samu>there is an impact on openttd performance
16:58<Samu>let me try without debug version brb
17:00<Samu>void AIInstance::Died() { ScriptInstance::Died(); AI::Stop(_current_company); AI::StartNew(_current_company, false); }
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17:01<Samu>might try a misc openttd setting for this
17:01<Samu>on or off
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17:04<Samu>without debug version, the impact is not as noticeable, but if the game is run in fast forward, it is noticeable
17:05<Samu>the ai debug window is being cleaned all the time
17:05<Samu>must not clean
17:05<Samu>keep all the log
17:06<Samu>yeah I think I like this feature all
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17:10<Samu>it's averaging 3.5% cpu with this restarting thing
17:10<Samu>per instance
17:10<Samu>if i have 15 instances... that's a bad sign
17:11<Samu>let's try 15 rocketais
17:12<Samu>erm, 14
17:16<Samu>this is bad
17:16<Samu>:( really impactful
17:16<Samu>too bad, i was enjoying this
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17:56<Samu>what's the difference between "delete c->ai_instance;" and c->ai_instance = NULL;
18:01<@Rubidium>"delete c->ai_instance" is like freeing prisoners, and c->ai_instance = NULL is like removing all knowledge of the prisoners existing
18:02<@Rubidium>doing only the latter does not free the prisoners, but since everyone forgets about the prisoners they will never be fed again (or freed)
18:02<+glx>good way to fill the RAM ;)
18:04<@Rubidium>unlike languages with garbage collection, where the latter will in a sense move the knowledge of the prisoners existing to an entity that releases "forgotten" prisoners every once in a while. But bear in mind that those languages require more steps to count the number of users and require more memory to maintain those counts
18:07<Samu>i'm trying this command
18:07<Samu>erm, fucntion
18:07<Samu> /* static */ void AI::Restart(CompanyID company) { Company *c = Company::Get(company); delete c->ai_instance; c->ai_instance = NULL; c->ai_instance = new AIInstance(); c->ai_instance->Initialize(c->ai_info); }
18:08<Samu>trying to avoid AI::Stop and AI::StartNew
18:10<Samu>there's still something else that is clearing the debug log
18:10<Samu>must find what is cleaning it
18:10<Samu>i wanted it to keep all the log
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18:32<Samu>what is backup and restore used for? in the case of ais?
18:32<Samu>Backup<CompanyByte> cur_company(_current_company, company, FILE_LINE); Company::Get(company)->ai_instance->Pause(); cur_company.Restore();
18:33<Samu>to pause the ai, you use this backup thing, but i can't figure out why
18:34<Samu>not only when pausing, but also for startnew, stop, unpause
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19:16<Samu>i have an idea for this problem but i may need help
19:16<Samu>instead of restarting immediately, i'd postpone a restart on the next month
19:16<Samu>or perhaps in the next few hundred ticks, how do I do this?
19:18<Samu>i'm still unable to keep the log
19:19<Samu>it is always cleaning up the old log, starting anew
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19:23<Samu>hehe, rocketai with 103 road vehicles, this is nice, and the company ain't bankrupting
19:33<Samu>oh, 108 road vehicles, it feels alive!
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20:56<Samu>is this good english?
20:56<Samu>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_AI_RESTART_DEAD_HELPTEXT :Enabling this setting permits the AIs to restart themselves if they have encountered an error, without notificating the player about it and without reseting the company they are controlling.
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21:03<Samu>what can you say about that english
21:04<Samu>oh, the :on, off thingy is missing, must fix
21:13<Samu>any native english speaker?
21:36<alask0ud>Hey, I can speak english relatively good, but I'm noob to OTTD
21:36<alask0ud>I see you've been talking alone all day haha
21:40<@planetmaker>English proficiency is no prerequisite to playing OpenTTD ;)
21:41<Samu> - posted it here
21:42<Samu>if anyone wants to test it out
21:44<alask0ud>That's why I'm noob lol
21:48<Eddi|zuHause>strange time for a random planetmaker to appear.
21:49<Flygon>planetmaker: It might be if your primary language isn't in Latin script :)
21:50<Flygon>Otherwise loading a NewGRF, and readng train names
21:50<Flygon>And the Korean person reads it thinking "What the fuck is a Victorian Railways Walker Railcar?"
21:50<Flygon>...granted, I don't think the 2CC set has that yet :U
21:51<Flygon>Point is, it wouldn't be in Hangul :
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21:52<Eddi|zuHause>but knowing what a vehicle name means is also not really necessary for playing openttd
21:53<Eddi|zuHause>like, for many years i misinterpreted what the "BR" in the original vehicle names meant...
21:56<@planetmaker>Flygon, latin script is no pre-requisite either
21:56<Flygon>xP It does help a lot, tho
21:56<Flygon>Eddi: Lemme guess. "Brazil"?
21:56<Flygon>I use to play Ragnarok Online in the mid-00s, and wondered why everyone was referring to British Railways
21:57<Flygon>Turned out they were annoyed by all the Portuguese speakers
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23:39<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: no, not brazil...
23:40<Flygon>Hmm? o.o
---Logclosed Sat Aug 20 00:00:58 2016