| --- | Log | opened Wed Aug 24 00:00:11 2016 |
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| 05:07 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
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| 05:15 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 05:15 | <andythenorth_> | Luxury train carriages, improved payment rate, reduced capacity... |
| 05:16 | <andythenorth_> | BAD FEATURE? |
| 05:16 | <Wolf01> | Nah, seems good |
| 05:17 | <Wolf01> | NotRoadTypes didn't let me have a good sleep |
| 05:17 | <Wolf01> | But I have more ideas |
| 05:18 | <andythenorth_> | :) |
| 05:18 | <V453000> | andythenorth_: it makes no sense to use less capacity for more profit, but sure :D |
| 05:18 | <V453000> | #gameizbroken |
| 05:18 | <V453000> | #moneymattersnot |
| 05:19 | <andythenorth_> | V seems like Doing It Just Because I Could |
| 05:19 | <andythenorth_> | No eye candy benefit |
| 05:19 | <andythenorth_> | No gameplay rationale |
| 05:21 | <andythenorth_> | Wolf01 so...ideas? o_O |
| 05:21 | <V453000> | that way you will end up hating it in 6 months |
| 05:21 | <Wolf01> | Ideas on how to start patching |
| 05:22 | <andythenorth_> | V I am hoping someone says 'no' :p |
| 05:22 | <Wolf01> | Also, ideas on reverting half of the catenary |
| 05:22 | <andythenorth_> | Although the idea is valid for ships I think |
| 05:23 | <Wolf01> | Still no ideas on how to implement subtypes |
| 05:24 | <V453000> | well yeah ships are senseless no matter what you do ;P |
| 05:24 | <V453000> | WETRail is all i'm sayin |
| 05:24 | <andythenorth_> | Wolf01 alberth gave me an enum that could be unpacked to fibd the subtypes, do you mean at that level, or more generally? :) |
| 05:24 | <Wolf01> | More generally |
| 05:25 | <andythenorth_> | V WETRail is a protest vote not a solution :D |
| 05:26 | <V453000> | well it's the best solution we have so far :P |
| 05:27 | <andythenorth_> | Bah maybe ships need a patch |
| 05:28 | <andythenorth_> | What would it do? |
| 05:28 | <V453000> | remove them? :> |
| 05:29 | <andythenorth_> | Plausible |
| 05:29 | <V453000> | for a start, colliding with each other would be necessary, which would probably make the pathfinder ultra wtf on CPU |
| 05:29 | <V453000> | because that's one of the reasons why many of the things don't matter with them |
| 05:30 | <V453000> | but other than that it's pretty hard to make them interesting |
| 05:30 | <Wolf01> | Remove ships and make space for more stuff |
| 05:30 | <andythenorth_> | Airplanes have same problem? |
| 05:30 | <V453000> | yeah but airports have capacity limit |
| 05:30 | <V453000> | for aircraft I always thought it is similar to ships, but there is the option of making something like modular airports |
| 05:30 | <V453000> | maybe making modular docks would be the thing |
| 05:31 | <andythenorth_> | I think colliding ships is wtf |
| 05:31 | <andythenorth_> | Docks are the problem |
| 05:31 | <V453000> | you know, unloading area, loading area, waiting area |
| 05:31 | <V453000> | or something |
| 05:31 | <V453000> | with cranes and shit, you name it |
| 05:31 | <argoneus> | good morning train friends |
| 05:32 | <V453000> | ship friends * |
| 05:32 | <andythenorth_> | Seas need weather |
| 05:32 | <V453000> | haha |
| 05:32 | <argoneus> | no |
| 05:32 | <V453000> | kraken approachez |
| 05:32 | <Wolf01> | Colliding ships adds more thinking when making routes, specially with canals |
| 05:32 | <argoneus> | ship acquaintances |
| 05:32 | <V453000> | I think modular docks would be right way to go |
| 05:32 | <andythenorth_> | Small ships get sunk by storms |
| 05:32 | <andythenorth_> | +lots |
| 05:33 | <andythenorth_> | But still, does nothing to differentiate types? |
| 05:33 | <V453000> | well it could start making a difference |
| 05:33 | <andythenorth_> | Ha ha ShipDockTypes? |
| 05:33 | <V453000> | if the dock setup is really complex |
| 05:33 | <V453000> | simple to understand but hard to mASSter |
| 05:33 | <andythenorth_> | we have roadstop types |
| 05:34 | <Wolf01> | Cruise ships, you'll get paid on start and then you can forget it |
| 05:34 | <andythenorth_> | pax ships have to go to pax dock |
| 05:34 | <andythenorth_> | Cargo ships to cargo dock |
| 05:34 | <V453000> | it probably doesn't fit into openttd |
| 05:34 | <andythenorth_> | game is about routes yes/no? |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | could have shit like waves shouldn't be able to get into dock etc |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | storm-proof docks |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | slug invasion proof docks |
| 05:35 | <andythenorth_> | and crime of ships is that routes have no challenge |
| 05:35 | <andythenorth_> | CRIME |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | well it doesn'y have to be about routes |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | trains are |
| 05:35 | <V453000> | doesn't mean everything should |
| 05:35 | <Wolf01> | Game is about making money, but singe you can make a shitload of money with just 1 aircraft, the game is pointless, at least add complexity to the puzzle part |
| 05:35 | <Wolf01> | *since |
| 05:36 | <V453000> | aircraft and ships are about nothing then |
| 05:36 | <andythenorth_> | Yeah true...but it is about routes anyway V |
| 05:36 | <V453000> | making them about airport/station is fine |
| 05:36 | <andythenorth_> | Coulda woulda shoulda, but it's a routing game :p |
| 05:36 | <Wolf01> | Yes, and the route should be fun, not just a traight line |
| 05:36 | <Wolf01> | *straight |
| 05:36 | <V453000> | XD |
| 05:36 | <Wolf01> | WTF is with my fingers today? |
| 05:37 | <andythenorth_> | only complexity to ships is bouys, and that is just tedious yak shaving |
| 05:37 | <Wolf01> | +1 |
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| 05:37 | <Wolf01> | Automatic buoys assignment? |
| 05:37 | <andythenorth_> | infinite capacity per tile, no other transport type has that in ottd |
| 05:37 | <V453000> | remoov shitz |
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| 05:38 | <andythenorth_> | Limiting docks forces ships to take up more tiles |
| 05:38 | <andythenorth_> | also eye candy |
| 05:38 | <V453000> | well mainly it puts them into non-infinite shit |
| 05:38 | <V453000> | and eye candy docks are amazing |
| 05:38 | <andythenorth_> | ok we just need to implement the fucker then |
| 05:39 | <Wolf01> | I would like also one ship per lock, and removing the "sliding locks" which is nonsense |
| 05:39 | <andythenorth_> | But all eye candy tiles are in rail station grfs :( |
| 05:39 | <V453000> | just make 1 ship max at 1 dock at a time |
| 05:39 | <V453000> | don't need to make ships not overlap |
| 05:39 | <andythenorth_> | Locks are stupid |
| 05:39 | <V453000> | grfs -> base shit ? :P |
| 05:39 | <andythenorth_> | I am going to patch locks to be 2 tiles |
| 05:40 | <andythenorth_> | And they need some kind of speed penalty or wait time or such |
| 05:40 | <Wolf01> | +1 |
| 05:40 | <V453000> | syck |
| 05:40 | <@peter1138> | i had a patch for that... |
| 05:40 | <@peter1138> | not quite |
| 05:40 | <andythenorth_> | yair :) |
| 05:40 | <andythenorth_> | CanalTypes? |
| 05:41 | <andythenorth_> | 7mph, 9mph, 15mph :p |
| 05:41 | <Wolf01> | Ships need to be nerfed badly and at the same time made more pleasant to play with |
| 05:41 | <V453000> | fuck nerfing |
| 05:41 | * | andythenorth_ trolling about CanalTypes |
| 05:41 | <V453000> | just need more mechanics |
| 05:41 | <andythenorth_> | one ship per time in locks? |
| 05:42 | <andythenorth_> | I spent 2 boring hours on the hydrofoil in Vienna waiting for lock |
| 05:42 | <Wolf01> | And ship elevators |
| 05:42 | <V453000> | one ship per entity in general makes sense |
| 05:42 | <V453000> | be it a dock or a lock |
| 05:42 | <Wolf01> | Yes |
| 05:43 | <V453000> | rhyme the fuck out of this bitch |
| 05:43 | <andythenorth_> | problem of locks/canals is, I just lower land to sea level always |
| 05:43 | <andythenorth_> | Because reasons |
| 05:44 | <andythenorth_> | LockTypes? :p |
| 05:44 | <V453000> | WETLocks? |
| 05:45 | <andythenorth_> | Hmm game could auto-bouy when adding orders, pathfinder could figure it out |
| 05:45 | <andythenorth_> | Bouy would have to exist already |
| 05:45 | <V453000> | would be a nice thing |
| 05:45 | <V453000> | certainly much less annoying |
| 05:45 | <Wolf01> | That what I said before |
| 05:45 | <andythenorth_> | :D |
| 05:46 | <V453000> | idea stolen |
| 05:46 | <andythenorth_> | Might sometimea have stupid results depending on location of bouy |
| 05:46 | <V453000> | max profit |
| 05:46 | <andythenorth_> | But eh |
| 05:46 | <V453000> | it's not like ships currently don't have stupid results |
| 05:46 | <Wolf01> | We also need water levels, with huge ships not being able to travel on shallow water |
| 05:47 | <andythenorth_> | Bouys could maintain a linkgraph of reachable docks |
| 05:47 | <andythenorth_> | Then ship just routes to bouy |
| 05:47 | * | andythenorth_ wavey hands |
| 05:47 | <andythenorth_> | Docks could cache routes to other docks :p |
| 05:48 | <Wolf01> | https://sites.google.com/site/boekabart/deepwater <- |
| 05:50 | <Wolf01> | Cached routes will be a good idea, maybe they'll need to be cleared once in a while if the terrain/canals change |
| 05:50 | * | andythenorth_ looking at deep water |
| 05:52 | <andythenorth_> | Dunno about deep water |
| 05:52 | <andythenorth_> | Might be like MHL, sounds good, looks good, but zero gameplay effect? |
| 05:53 | <Wolf01> | MAke aircrafts avoid mountains, so Samu will be more happy |
| 05:56 | <Wolf01> | Btw with MHL naturally occurring steep slopes would be a good idea, make the cliffs more eyecandy and tries to avoid lowering an entire row up to the top if you are lowering a tile on the mountain base |
| 05:58 | * | andythenorth_ back to ship set ideas |
| 05:59 | <andythenorth_> | Not sure whether to keep 'utility ships' (refit pax or freight), or ditch them |
| 05:59 | <andythenorth_> | Road Hog does not have this - RVs can't due to stations |
| 06:00 | <andythenorth_> | Iron Horse has it for specific cases of small trains for small routes |
| 06:00 | <andythenorth_> | Otherwise not |
| 06:00 | <andythenorth_> | Pikka's planes all do it |
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| 06:03 | <andythenorth_> | It makes buy menu shorter, but if you run pax mail food to small town, all ships will be same |
| 06:03 | <andythenorth_> | Is realism kind of, except irl it would be one ship carrying all cargos at once |
| 06:04 | <Wolf01> | Make only goods ships |
| 06:04 | <Wolf01> | And reroute every cargo to goods |
| 06:05 | <Wolf01> | Except oil tankers |
| 06:06 | <Wolf01> | It would be good having shore industries which need to be built near roads which produce vehicles, so we could have ferries |
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| 06:11 | <andythenorth_> | Which is worse, long buy menu, or monoculture of vehicles in-game? |
| 06:11 | <Wolf01> | Both |
| 06:11 | <Samu> | hi |
| 06:11 | <Wolf01> | (implementation detail: uses 4 bits each, uses 8 bits free in m8) <- So m8 is completely free or there's an offset? |
| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | struct TileExtended { |
| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | byte m6; ///< General purpose |
| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | byte m7; ///< Primarily used for newgrf support |
| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | }; |
| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | I think is free... |
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| 06:13 | <Samu> | is there a setting to change the max distance between 2 docks for ship orders? |
| 06:13 | <Samu> | for YAPF, that is |
| 06:13 | <Samu> | ais don't like 128 tiles distance to be the limit |
| 06:14 | <andythenorth_> | Wolf01 I can't check on my phone, but iirc there was a block of spare bits ;) |
| 06:14 | <Samu> | i see ships with single orders |
| 06:14 | <andythenorth_> | AI can't build bouys reliably? |
| 06:14 | <Samu> | they could |
| 06:14 | <Samu> | but some ais are not prepared |
| 06:14 | <Samu> | i guess they were tested under NPF |
| 06:15 | <Samu> | NPF allows unlimited range |
| 06:15 | <Samu> | but NPF has some other problems though |
| 06:19 | <Wolf01> | Also, if I understood it well, the 4 extended bits for sub road types are the features? |
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| 06:20 | <Wolf01> | Or they are just the index of the sub road type? |
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| 06:28 | <andythenorth_> | They would index to labels (I assume) |
| 06:28 | <andythenorth_> | The type would define the features via newgrf |
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| 06:30 | <Samu> | hmm, from my understanding, reading the log |
| 06:30 | <Samu> | trans wants to transport passengers by ship from Wuwood to Wuwood |
| 06:30 | <Samu> | the city is quite big, but it only uses 1 dock |
| 06:30 | <Samu> | :( |
| 06:31 | <Samu> | seems to be an AI problem, not a YAPF problem |
| 06:31 | <Samu> | it only has 1 dock total |
| 06:31 | <Samu> | i also see a mention to Mentwood as another possible destination, but I see no dock near Mentwood |
| 06:32 | <Samu> | Mentwood is close to Wuwood, maybe the AI intended to make a connection between Wuwood and Mentwood, not Wuwood and Wuwood |
| 06:32 | <Samu> | I dunno, log isn't clear enough |
| 06:32 | <Samu> | I've already tried YAPF and NPF, it fails on both cases |
| 06:34 | <Samu> | otviai, on the other hand |
| 06:34 | <Samu> | benefits greatly with npf |
| 06:40 | <@peter1138> | multistop docks! |
| 06:40 | <@peter1138> | i had a patch for that... |
| 06:42 | * | Wolf01 googles "how to implement this stuff I'm working on" |
| 06:45 | <andythenorth_> | Multistop newgrf docks? Peter1138 :p |
| 06:47 | <Samu> | from my previous test: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75144 |
| 06:48 | <Samu> | terron, otvi, wmdot, nonocab, dictatorai benefit better from NPF than YAPF |
| 06:49 | <Samu> | nocab and trans benefit better from YAPF than NPF |
| 06:49 | <Samu> | hmm |
| 06:50 | <Samu> | dictatorai is difficult to judge |
| 06:50 | <Samu> | could do well on either NPF and YAPF |
| 06:51 | <Samu> | nocab and nonocab are also withing margin of error |
| 06:51 | <Samu> | nocab and nonocab are also within* margin of error |
| 06:51 | <Samu> | maybe not nocab |
| 06:52 | <Samu> | nocab appears to have a better advantage later game with YAPF |
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| 06:53 | <Samu> | terron, otvi, wmdot seem to prefer NPF clearly |
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| 06:54 | <Samu> | nocab seem to have a late game advantage with YAPF clearly |
| 06:54 | <Samu> | I guess overall NPF is preferible for AIs |
| 06:58 | <Samu> | trans appears to benefit better with YAPF |
| 06:58 | <Samu> | interesting... must test this further |
| 06:59 | <Samu> | trans problem is that it generates a ton of lost ships |
| 07:00 | <Samu> | and NPF is prone to having lost ships |
| 07:00 | <Samu> | same as original |
| 07:00 | <Samu> | YAPF seems better on avoiding lost ships, but there's the limitation of 128 tiles max distance which some ais can't cope well |
| 07:04 | <Wolf01> | ShowBuildRoadToolbar(RoadType roadtype) <- I need to pass a sub road type too, or change the RoadType to the SubRoadType and then get the RoadType from that, but I don't know how to define SubRoadType as it should be handled by the newgrfs (I could put there the current ones) |
| 07:05 | <Wolf01> | How does it work for rails? |
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| 07:30 | <Samu> | noob question, i'm trying to fix something on WMDot, i want to have it do unload and leave empty in one of its vehicle orders |
| 07:30 | <Samu> | AIOrder.AppendOrder(MyVehicle, DockLocation, AIOrder.OF_NONE); |
| 07:30 | <Samu> | it's AIOrder.???? |
| 07:31 | <Samu> | what do I change it to? |
| 07:37 | <Samu> | gonna try OF_NO_LOADÂ |
| 07:37 | <Samu> | brb |
| 07:49 | <Samu> | YES, it werks! |
| 07:57 | <Wolf01> | ROTF_CATENARY <- I would add a L |
| 08:00 | <Samu> | who's an expert on orders? |
| 08:01 | <Samu> | what's the difference between No loading and unload and leave empty? |
| 08:01 | <Samu> | i think i know, but |
| 08:01 | <Wolf01> | Unload forces the unload even if the station does not accept the cargo |
| 08:02 | <Samu> | I see |
| 08:02 | <Samu> | from an AI standpoint, what would be better? |
| 08:02 | <Wolf01> | Depends on the situation |
| 08:03 | <Samu> | i'm unsure what WmDOT does when the oil refinery disappears |
| 08:03 | <Samu> | i guess unload and leave empty would be better |
| 08:03 | <Samu> | gonna try magic bulldozer the refinery |
| 08:05 | <Wolf01> | You just move the problem to another place |
| 08:05 | <Wolf01> | May be even worse |
| 08:06 | <Samu> | No Load is bad, he keeps adding ships |
| 08:06 | <Samu> | must try unload and leave empty |
| 08:06 | <Samu> | how would I do that? |
| 08:06 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Wolf01: the subtype is an index into an array, and the array member is filled with data from the newgrf (or marked invalid) |
| 08:07 | <Samu> | https://noai.openttd.org/api/1.5.0/classAIOrder.html#ca4eab6320c32ec982461231f14d1c6e |
| 08:07 | <Samu> | halp |
| 08:07 | <Samu> | AIOrder.AppendOrder(MyVehicle, DockLocation, AIOrder.OF_???????); |
| 08:07 | <Wolf01> | Samu, you should check if vehicles return loaded when they are supposed to return empty |
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| 08:08 | <Samu> | the way the ai works, it keeps adding ships because of the amount of cargo waiting at the oild rig |
| 08:08 | <Wolf01> | The AI is borked |
| 08:08 | <Samu> | if I force unload, he won't add that many ships |
| 08:09 | <Samu> | unless oil rig increases prodcution |
| 08:09 | <Wolf01> | Not the right fix |
| 08:09 | <Wolf01> | You should change the unload station if possible instead of wasting oil |
| 08:09 | <Samu> | well, i am not gonna dwelve into his code, just wanted an easy fix |
| 08:10 | <Wolf01> | Like breaking your other leg to not feel pain in the first one |
| 08:10 | <Samu> | hehe |
| 08:10 | <Samu> | i suppose the AI doesn't expect oil refineries to disappear |
| 08:10 | <Samu> | I'm unsure |
| 08:11 | <Samu> | magic bulldozer isn't the same as saying refinery announced closure |
| 08:11 | <Wolf01> | Eddi, could you guide me a bit? |
| 08:11 | <Samu> | maybe the ai does handle refinery closure |
| 08:11 | <Samu> | but not magic bulldozer |
| 08:11 | <Samu> | don't feel like investigating |
| 08:12 | <Wolf01> | Need more debugging tool, like "force industry closure" |
| 08:12 | <Samu> | ugh, maybe i should |
| 08:14 | <Wolf01> | Eddi, I'm looking at rail.h to get inspiration, I could put in the new road.h some stuff to help the subtypes |
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| 08:16 | <Samu> | case AIEvent.ET_INDUSTRY_CLOSE: Log.Note("Nice event and all, but I have no idea what to do about it...", 4); |
| 08:16 | <Samu> | looks like wmdot doesn't care |
| 08:17 | <Samu> | that means... unload and leave empty is the lesser problem for a quick fix, yet not the ideal solution |
| 08:18 | <Wolf01> | It should shut downs the route |
| 08:18 | <Wolf01> | This is the easiest fix |
| 08:19 | <Wolf01> | At least if you don't want to lose money |
| 08:19 | <Samu> | how would I code that? my skills are bad |
| 08:19 | <Samu> | i don't even know how to put a unload and leave empty order |
| 08:19 | <Wolf01> | Read docs? |
| 08:20 | <Samu> | i managed to do a no load order though, but unload and leave empty seems to be a mix of NO_LOAD and UNLOAD |
| 08:20 | <Samu> | added together |
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| 08:28 | <Samu> | the index UNLOAD does not exist :( |
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| 08:30 | <Samu> | oh, right |
| 08:30 | <Samu> | OF_UNLOAD, not UNLOAD |
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| 08:31 | <Samu> | unload and take cargo.... bah :( |
| 08:31 | <Samu> | must be unload and leave empty |
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| 08:34 | <Samu> | i can't manage to do it, grrr |
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| 08:36 | <Samu> | must find an AI that already does unload and leave empty |
| 08:36 | <Samu> | copy paste skills |
| 08:42 | <Samu> | aha |
| 08:42 | <Samu> | AIOrder.AppendOrder(vehicleID, roadList[0].tile, AIOrder.OF_UNLOAD | AIOrder.OF_NO_LOAD); |
| 08:42 | <Samu> | let's try |
| 08:43 | <Samu> | YES, i did it :) |
| 08:46 | <Samu> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=53698&p=1175569#p1175569 |
| 08:46 | <Samu> | who's MinchinWeb? does he post on this channel? |
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| 09:06 | <Alkel_U3> | hm, roadtypes... will ice roads have a bonus in curves and corners? :-) https://media.giphy.com/media/l0K3XYocfxgMiCwBq/giphy.gif |
| 09:08 | <Wolf01> | Sure |
| 09:09 | <Alkel_U3> | also 5-tile stopping distance |
| 09:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Alkel_U3: max_te is a vehicle's responsibility |
| 09:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Wolf01: sorry, i don't have any of the details |
| 09:13 | <Wolf01> | So, I made up a definition for the original roadtypes, I'll have to move the sprite definition too, but I think it could be done later |
| 09:13 | <Wolf01> | Now I only need to fill the _roadtypes[] array |
| 09:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's easy: {default, invalid, invalid, invalid, ...} |
| 09:14 | <Wolf01> | The problem is where... rail seem to do it in newgrf |
| 09:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you could just make a dummy function that gets replaced once you do newgrf stuff |
| 09:15 | <Wolf01> | Yes, still no clue where to call it |
| 09:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or you could already build in the newgrf stub |
| 09:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | somewere in the new game code |
| 09:16 | <Alkel_U3> | Eddi|zuHause: well, I wasn't being too serious, but it could be lowered on snowy roads in arctic climate... unless that's a bad feature, of course :-) |
| 09:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Alkel_U3: i'm just saying, vehicles that know about roadtypes could do it, but others can not. |
| 09:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the roadtype itself has no influence on this |
| 09:17 | <Alkel_U3> | ah, I see |
| 09:17 | <Alkel_U3> | I didn't look at that that way |
| 09:20 | <Wolf01> | It will be possible to set up a max speed for RoadTypes |
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| 10:21 | <supermop> | good morning |
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| 10:34 | <Wolf01> | Nice, sorting the RoadTypes made Tramway first choice |
| 10:34 | <Wolf01> | Not a problem, because I'm still using the old gui |
| 10:36 | <V453000> | TRAMZ > ALL |
| 10:36 | <V453000> | get rekt |
| 10:37 | <Wolf01> | Still no clue on how to add more hardcoded roadtypes of type 'TRAM' |
| 10:38 | <Wolf01> | The function in newgrf.cpp is weird enough to make me desist |
| 10:38 | <V453000> | Yo program, please add dem TRAM rodetypoz. Thanks, yours sincerely fuck you computer. |
| 10:38 | <V453000> | ez |
| 10:38 | <Wolf01> | :D |
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| 10:41 | <Samu> | i'm experimenting wmdot with my fix on the same test conditions i used before |
| 10:41 | <Samu> | let's see if there's a noticeable difference |
| 10:41 | <Wolf01> | Labels need to be exactly 4 chars? |
| 10:42 | <Wolf01> | Or could I use "LTRAIL" and "ELTRAIL" instead of "TRAM"? |
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| 10:46 | * | andythenorth ponders |
| 10:47 | <andythenorth> | 1. Restrict ships to only visit compatible docks |
| 10:47 | <andythenorth> | 2. Extend that to arbitrary types, newgrf defined |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | 3. Limit docks to n ship stops, and make ships wait somewhere nearby |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | 4. Permit multiple docks per station |
| 10:48 | <andythenorth> | 5. Change docks to single tile, and allow building on coast or flat land |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | 6. Enable arbitrary dock graphics per type, newgrf defined |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | 7. Profit |
| 10:49 | <andythenorth> | Peter1138 where did ships wait for MultiDocks? |
| 10:49 | <Alkel_U3> | also make ships dock broadside when it's already being fiddled with, perhaps |
| 10:50 | <Wolf01> | Mmmh, nothing changed in game, trying now to effectively call the function |
| 10:51 | <Samu> | hey andythenorth, can you improve dock placement checks? |
| 10:51 | <Wolf01> | Need to bypass the GrfSpecFeature |
| 10:51 | <Samu> | to avoid ship blocking when placing docks |
| 10:52 | <Samu> | only water around is not an enough check |
| 10:53 | <Samu> | this is only to help ais, because humans won't place docks purposedly to block ships, but ais may do it by accident |
| 10:53 | <andythenorth> | Wolf01 AIUI there is an enum which correspons to the railtypes, but I don't know how that connects to a newgrf define data structure further |
| 10:54 | <andythenorth> | Bad typing on tablet :| |
| 10:54 | <andythenorth> | There must be some railtype class or something |
| 10:54 | <Samu> | erm, let me screenshot an example |
| 10:55 | <Wolf01> | Yes I already made roadtype |
| 10:57 | * | Wolf01 crosses fingers |
| 10:57 | <Wolf01> | Something exploded |
| 10:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Wolf01: labels are just an integer, that they translate to exactly 4 characters is just a convention |
| 10:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they can't be more than 4 characters, though |
| 10:59 | <andythenorth> | They map directly to the bits in the map, no? |
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| 10:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no |
| 10:59 | <Samu> | andythenorth: http://imgur.com/a/KfXSE - ships are blocked |
| 10:59 | <Samu> | ship 1 is blocked because as the ship was arriving at the dock, a ship depot was placed in front of it |
| 11:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the map has 4 bits for (rail)type, the label is 32 bit |
| 11:00 | <Wolf01> | Bah, linker doesn't resolve a function call, removing that, useless |
| 11:00 | <Wolf01> | Ok, the game don't explode |
| 11:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Wolf01: did you add the file to sources.lst and then run projects/generate? |
| 11:00 | <Wolf01> | Yes |
| 11:00 | <Samu> | ship 2 is blocked because the dock to the right was placed when the ship was docking at ship 1 when coming to it from NE-NW direction |
| 11:00 | <Samu> | oops typo |
| 11:01 | <Samu> | ship 2 is blocked because the dock to the right was placed when the ship was docking at the dock to the left when coming to it from NE-NW direction |
| 11:01 | <andythenorth> | Not sure that's related :) |
| 11:02 | <Samu> | when it tries go to the way back, NW-NE, it's blocked by the dock to the right |
| 11:02 | <andythenorth> | Players need to build in better locations? o_O |
| 11:02 | <Samu> | well, players don't have a problem with that |
| 11:02 | <Samu> | ais do have problems |
| 11:03 | <Samu> | they can't easily fix it |
| 11:04 | <andythenorth> | it's an issue, but it doesn't help me design a ship newgrf :) |
| 11:04 | <andythenorth> | I am not an ottd dev, so I can't fix the placement problem |
| 11:07 | <andythenorth> | Fast ships: luxury (payment bonus) or uncomfortable (payment penalty)? |
| 11:08 | <andythenorth> | RL is no guide here |
| 11:08 | <Wolf01> | Oh really, I'm an idiot, I never implemented the function |
| 11:08 | <V453000> | andythenorth: XD |
| 11:08 | <V453000> | usually luxury |
| 11:09 | <andythenorth> | Hovercraft can be quite variable |
| 11:09 | <V453000> | real life rekt |
| 11:09 | <V453000> | then make it hovercat or rubberduck |
| 11:09 | <V453000> | GG |
| 11:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: scrap fast ships, all ships the same speed. |
| 11:10 | <andythenorth> | I tried that, I think it's a bit limiting on types |
| 11:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in a comparison between slow and fast, fast always wins, so might just as well scrap all slow ships then |
| 11:10 | <andythenorth> | it means by 1970 or so everything is hovercraft or hydrofoil |
| 11:14 | <andythenorth> | Also, does the argument hold? Why build metro trains instead of 200mph maglev? o_O |
| 11:16 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ |
| 11:16 | -!- | ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.6.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy |
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| 11:16 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ |
| 11:16 | <Alkel_U3> | those can have slow acceleration and loading times |
| 11:18 | <andythenorth> | Ship acceleration :p |
| 11:23 | <Samu> | i'm opening a 1 TB log file... zzzzz |
| 11:23 | <Samu> | 952 MB (998.860.730 bytes) |
| 11:23 | <Samu> | not 1 TB, but close |
| 11:24 | <Wolf01> | Ekranoplanes, ships that moves at aircraft speed |
| 11:25 | <Wolf01> | andythenorth: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgUFeOGLNNfVhYcE-9rgJMb4PMn6-w |
| 11:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the problem is that the game doesn't model a lot of things that could make shipsinteresting/diverse/useful |
| 11:26 | <Wolf01> | I don't know if ipad let you open the diff to see |
| 11:30 | <Samu> | teshinet crashed again |
| 11:30 | <Samu> | always the same error |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | Yeah no diff on ipad |
| 11:33 | <@peter1138> | hi |
| 11:34 | <Samu> | hi |
| 11:34 | <andythenorth> | Eddi assume game *did* offer something (anything), what classes of pax ship would then be interesting to have in game? |
| 11:34 | <Samu> | yate |
| 11:35 | <Samu> | carries tourists, move super slow, high running costs, hmm... but tourists are super rich and pay a lot |
| 11:35 | <Samu> | lel |
| 11:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, let's start with something easy: ferry (high loading speed, fast cargo decay) vs. cruise ship (low loading speed, slow cargo decay) |
| 11:38 | <supermop> | articulated |
| 11:38 | <andythenorth> | Trade station dwell time against travel time |
| 11:39 | <supermop> | ro-ro ferry can carry goods or mail in addition to passengers, watertaxi carries only passengers |
| 11:39 | <andythenorth> | Ferries are for dense cities, like metro |
| 11:39 | <supermop> | water taxi is like metro, big ferry is like regional rail, ocean liners are like inter-city |
| 11:40 | <supermop> | but more so |
| 11:40 | <andythenorth> | But the load time would have to be substantially different |
| 11:41 | <Alkel_U3> | separately refittable cargo holds would be awesome, but that's certainly beyond the scope of this |
| 11:41 | <supermop> | i mean boats should load slower than trains anyway to ofset the infinite capacity of a canal |
| 11:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | like i said, i wouldn't vary the travel speed too much |
| 11:42 | <supermop> | that or use that old patch that spaces ot ships and the only pass through one another at low speed |
| 11:42 | <supermop> | Eddi|zuHause: yeah |
| 11:42 | <andythenorth> | Eddi not varying travel speeds precludes too many types imo |
| 11:42 | <andythenorth> | Maybe |
| 11:42 | <supermop> | most modern single hull ships go the same speed, gradually increasing with size |
| 11:43 | <andythenorth> | No hovercraft, no hydrofoils |
| 11:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes |
| 11:43 | <andythenorth> | No jet ferry |
| 11:43 | <supermop> | nuclear icebreakers or supercarriers would be faster in open water than a little motorboat |
| 11:43 | <Eddi|zuHause> | can live without those |
| 11:43 | <supermop> | but not by much |
| 11:44 | <supermop> | newest supercarriers go maybe 40 knots, most small ships are close to that |
| 11:44 | <andythenorth> | Eddi, ships limited to 25mph? |
| 11:44 | <supermop> | need a catamaran to go faster |
| 11:45 | <andythenorth> | Nerfed ships :) |
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| 11:51 | <@Alberth> | hi hi |
| 11:51 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 11:53 | <Wolf01> | Load trains on ships and road vehicles on trains |
| 11:55 | <@Alberth> | and ships on RVs |
| 11:55 | <Samu> | strange, wmdot does fine till the year 2010, then something strange happens |
| 11:56 | <Samu> | sells most ships, keeps only a few, i don't understand |
| 11:56 | <Samu> | sold like 95% of his total |
| 11:56 | <Samu> | :( |
| 11:57 | <Samu> | seems to be related to old model expiration |
| 11:57 | <Samu> | he can't clone old model anymore by the year 2010 |
| 11:57 | <Samu> | could it be that? |
| 11:58 | <Samu> | but old model expires by year 1990, not 2010, hmm must investigate better |
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| 12:05 | <Samu> | question, when did you introduce that thing that doesn't put cargo on stations after a year or so without having a vehicle loading? |
| 12:05 | <Samu> | that kinda ruined wmdot |
| 12:05 | <Samu> | he's always evaluating waiting cargo, but it's always 0 now |
| 12:06 | <Samu> | he got routes with 0 ships :o |
| 12:06 | <Samu> | valid routes, but no ships |
| 12:07 | <Samu> | i guess it would be updating the routes to the new model should there be cargo waiting |
| 12:13 | <Samu> | his route manager is buggy, he says route 47, 48 needs more ships, but it's actually adding them to route 57 |
| 12:15 | <Samu> | there is no route 57 group |
| 12:15 | <Samu> | it's being added to route 56 |
| 12:15 | <andythenorth> | Biab |
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| 12:15 | <Samu> | he's using the ship depot close to route 48 to duplicate ships for route 57 which doesn't have a group |
| 12:16 | <Samu> | that means, ships have to cross half the map to reach destination |
| 12:16 | <Samu> | :( |
| 12:16 | <Samu> | they got to cross about 1000 tiles distance |
| 12:17 | <Samu> | expecting bankrupt at some point |
| 12:17 | <Samu> | he's wasting all his money on ships crossing 1000 tiles, based on waiting cargo |
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| 12:18 | <Samu> | he got £20M in the bank to burn |
| 12:18 | <Samu> | lel |
| 12:18 | <Samu> | seems the problem only occurs past year 2010 |
| 12:19 | <Samu> | let me look at previous screenshots of this problem |
| 12:19 | <Samu> | yeap, 2041 |
| 12:19 | <Samu> | that's past 2010 |
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| 12:35 | <Samu> | calculate distance going from coordinates 1012,397 to 11,343 |
| 12:36 | <Samu> | (1012-11)+(397-343) |
| 12:37 | <Samu> | 1055 tiles |
| 12:38 | <Samu> | every 10 tiles, wmdot builds 2 ships |
| 12:39 | <Samu> | there's obstacles in the way, ships actually cross more than 1055 tiles |
| 12:39 | <Samu> | :( |
| 12:39 | <Samu> | poor wmdot |
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| 12:45 | <@Alberth> | @calc 1.4*(397-343)+(1012-11) |
| 12:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Alberth: 1076.6 |
| 12:45 | <@Alberth> | hmm, no |
| 12:45 | <@Alberth> | @calc 1.4*(397-343)+(1012-11)-(397-343) |
| 12:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Alberth: 1022.6 |
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| 12:46 | <Samu> | omg i got this all wrong |
| 12:47 | <Samu> | there's route 48 and 49, essentially they got the same orders |
| 12:47 | <Samu> | when the route manager investigates for waiting cargo |
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| 12:48 | <Samu> | it says route 47 and 48, but 48 and 49 have the so 1300 oil waiting at the oil rig |
| 12:48 | <Samu> | the depot of choice is of that for route 48 |
| 12:48 | <Samu> | that depot is near that oil rig |
| 12:48 | <Samu> | but... the ships get the wrong orders |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | they get orders that tells them to go to the wrong oil rig |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | making them traverse half the world |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | that wrong oil rig is of route 56 |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | and it does not have 1300 oil waiting |
| 12:49 | <Samu> | it's actually fully saturated |
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| 12:51 | <Samu> | my observations are wrong |
| 12:51 | <andythenorth> | So pax-only ships, or universal? |
| 12:51 | <Samu> | darn, i must correct the post, brb |
| 12:52 | <andythenorth> | If universal, then all other ship types are related to pax |
| 12:52 | <andythenorth> | Which is...harder :p |
| 12:53 | <@Alberth> | pax ships have different graphics, don't they? |
| 12:53 | <andythenorth> | Depends |
| 12:53 | <andythenorth> | Ferries, for example, are pretty universal |
| 12:53 | <@Alberth> | ferry-ish ? |
| 12:54 | <@Alberth> | hmm, true |
| 12:54 | <andythenorth> | RL keeps intervening in a neat and tidy set design |
| 12:54 | <andythenorth> | Silly RL |
| 12:56 | <Wolf01> | Mmmh I need a good steam locomotives video I've not yet seen |
| 12:56 | * | andythenorth needs dedicated ferry dock |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | (see logs) |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | NotDockTypes |
| 12:57 | <Nitrodev> | should i really go as the tutorial on the wiki suggests |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | No |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | Whatever it says :) |
| 12:57 | <Nitrodev> | okay then |
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| 12:59 | <andythenorth> | Tutorial is fine, but just skims the surface ;) |
| 12:59 | * | andythenorth just read it |
| 12:59 | <Nitrodev> | well, as i just downloaded the game, and all i have is a single bus going between two stations, i kinda need the start up |
| 13:00 | <@Alberth> | it's useful if you never played the game |
| 13:02 | <andythenorth> | Hmm |
| 13:02 | <Nitrodev> | what andythenorth? |
| 13:02 | <andythenorth> | So Eddi|zuHause the solution is to level all pax ship speeds for any given year? |
| 13:02 | <andythenorth> | But they could all be 'fast'? |
| 13:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, pretty much |
| 13:03 | <Wolf01> | http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/abZOQ2r_460s.jpg pfffff it already crashed |
| 13:03 | <andythenorth> | The actual value is atbitrary |
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| 13:03 | <andythenorth> | Arbitrary* |
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| 13:05 | <andythenorth> | If there was a hard limit on ship sprite sizes, designing would be much easier :p |
| 13:05 | <andythenorth> | More constraints would help |
| 13:05 | <andythenorth> | But self-imposed constraint on number of ships did mot work :x |
| 13:05 | <supermop__> | Wolf01: man with movie camera |
| 13:06 | <supermop__> | old soviet film from 20s |
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| 13:08 | <supermop__> | has (for the time) ground break train shots |
| 13:08 | <Samu> | https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=53698&p=1175575#p1175575 |
| 13:11 | <Nitrodev> | sigh, still the train left the coal station without any coal |
| 13:15 | <@Alberth> | no set "full load" ? |
| 13:15 | <@Alberth> | *not |
| 13:16 | <Nitrodev> | there we go |
| 13:16 | <Nitrodev> | and it was |
| 13:16 | <Nitrodev> | i think |
| 13:16 | <andythenorth> | 30 knot steam pax ships https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunard_Line |
| 13:17 | <@Alberth> | the first time a train arrives, there is no cargo, so if you don't say "full load", it immediately leaves, since it loaded everything there was (ie nothing) |
| 13:17 | <andythenorth> | Also, irl, express ships rely on frequency of service, one giant ship not as good as three smaller ones |
| 13:17 | <andythenorth> | Give or take other factors, like passenger numbers |
| 13:18 | <@Alberth> | very big ships :) |
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| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | Ach, pax only ships will do |
| 13:21 | <andythenorth> | Unblocks designing the cargo ships |
| 13:22 | <andythenorth> | No pax-freight universal ships |
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| 13:23 | <andythenorth> | RL doesn't apply |
| 13:23 | <@Alberth> | just show the ships bottom, in the buy menu, and add the top part in refitting :) |
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| 13:24 | <andythenorth> | Ha |
| 13:24 | <@Alberth> | but having cargo specific ships is much nicer to choose from, imho |
| 13:25 | <@Alberth> | especially pax / no-pax |
| 13:25 | <Samu> | group route 56, with 316 ships, of which only 2 are necessary |
| 13:25 | <@Alberth> | no no, the AI thinks it needs 316 ships, so 316 ships it is :) |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | the AI is now doing this: ship doesn't profit, sell |
| 13:26 | <@Alberth> | :) |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | then adds again on the other side |
| 13:26 | <@Alberth> | so it sells all 316? :) |
| 13:26 | <Samu> | 316 > 317 > 316 > 317 |
| 13:26 | <@Alberth> | haha :D |
| 13:27 | <@Alberth> | one good way to loose your money :) |
| 13:27 | <Samu> | on another note, NPF pathfinder did actually find a path going through 1055 tiles distance |
| 13:28 | <Samu> | no lost ships |
| 13:28 | <@Alberth> | although it's likely hard to prevent these things from happening |
| 13:28 | <Samu> | but extremely slow server |
| 13:29 | * | Matarazzo slaps Matarazzo around a bit with a large fishbot |
| 13:30 | <Samu> | log range for routes is 0-55, group name range for routes is 1-56, i was being mislead |
| 13:31 | <Samu> | grr |
| 13:31 | <Samu> | just fixed explanation on the topic |
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| 13:35 | <Nitrodev> | should i consider buying a new vehicle if there are many people or mail waiting at a station |
| 13:35 | <Nitrodev> | and station in this case can refer to airports as well |
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| 13:37 | <Samu> | legal question: can I post my modified version of wmdot on the forum? I don't really understand licenses |
| 13:37 | <Samu> | so i'm afraid of doing it |
| 13:41 | <@Alberth> | for what purpose? |
| 13:41 | <Nitrodev> | is it logical to make buses that go between towns? |
| 13:41 | <@Alberth> | Nitrodev: pax (passengers/mail) is hard to handle, you have an endless supply |
| 13:41 | <Samu> | to load my savegame if it's not compatible |
| 13:41 | <Samu> | but i guess it is |
| 13:42 | <Samu> | i've edited wmdot to make his orders at the destination unload and leave empty |
| 13:42 | <@Alberth> | Samu: I'd keep the version for a while, until you hear it couild be loaded |
| 13:42 | <Samu> | ok |
| 13:43 | <@Alberth> | although it should be fine for this purpose, I think |
| 13:44 | <@Alberth> | if you would publish your own AI, based on wmdot, you'd better give it a new name |
| 13:44 | <frosch123> | yay, finally made the bot work to delete spam from the wiki \o/ |
| 13:44 | <Samu> | ah no, i'm not skilled enough for that |
| 13:44 | <@Alberth> | but assuming wmdot is GPL, you can still put the source on the forum |
| 13:44 | <@Alberth> | frosch123: \o/ |
| 13:45 | -!- | ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.6.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy |
| 13:46 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ |
| 13:46 | <@Alberth> | euhm, ok, thanks ChanServ :) |
| 13:46 | * | frosch123 waits for speech |
| 13:47 | <@Alberth> | Nitrodev: passengers between towns works nicely, pax in both directions :) |
| 13:48 | <@Alberth> | they might have run out of alphabet letter for +"speech" :) |
| 13:48 | <@Alberth> | *letters |
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| 13:59 | <Samu> | Copyright 2011-2014 by W. Minchin |
| 14:00 | * | andythenorth ponders DockTypes spec |
| 14:01 | <Samu> | Permission is granted to you to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell this software, and provide these rights to others, provided: |
| 14:01 | <andythenorth> | Specifically, whether to optionally preserve current inifinite dock behaviour as option |
| 14:01 | <Samu> | bah whatever, i'll wait for an answer |
| 14:01 | <frosch123> | what should it do when the dock is full? |
| 14:02 | <frosch123> | skip the station? |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | Wait |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | But where? |
| 14:03 | <frosch123> | exactly :) |
| 14:03 | <andythenorth> | On the tile, but not loading? |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | Or do docks have some pre-defined holding point? |
| 14:04 | <frosch123> | so you want to limit loading speed to 1 ship at a time |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | Yeup |
| 14:04 | <andythenorth> | Also must be compatible with the type of dock... |
| 14:04 | <@Alberth> | enable "improved loading" |
| 14:04 | <frosch123> | it already loads only ship, it only starts with the next one of there is enough cargo waiting to completely fill the previous ones |
| 14:05 | <frosch123> | so, are you talking about docks with thousand of cargo wating? |
| 14:06 | <frosch123> | maybe multi-tile docks can just load faster? |
| 14:06 | <frosch123> | ship "length" defines how many docks a ship can make use of |
| 14:06 | <andythenorth> | maybe |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | intent is to a) introduce 'types' for ships by limiting compatibilty to specific docks b) as side effect, increase physical size of docks if lots of ship routes use them |
| 14:08 | <andythenorth> | b is definitely side effect, not intention |
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| 14:10 | * | andythenorth must to dinner, biab |
| 14:10 | <andythenorth> | Also....eye candy :p |
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| 14:14 | <Nitrodev> | i have 106 passengers waiting at one airport... |
| 14:15 | <Samu> | crap, notepad can't open log files over 1 TB |
| 14:16 | <Samu> | what am i supposed to do now? I need to find out if an AI crashed or not |
| 14:17 | <Samu> | i dont feel like installing word, i dont even know if word would open |
| 14:19 | <Samu> | trying wordpad |
| 14:19 | <Wolf01> | Try less |
| 14:21 | <Samu> | it's PAXLink log |
| 14:22 | <Wolf01> | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Less_(Unix) |
| 14:23 | <@Alberth> | Nitrodev: oh, only 106 :) |
| 14:24 | <@Alberth> | I tend to have 2000 to 4000 :) |
| 14:25 | <@Alberth> | try tail :) |
| 14:26 | <Samu> | I'm trying type |
| 14:26 | <Samu> | type Core5.txt |
| 14:26 | <Samu> | it's scrolling all over it |
| 14:26 | <Samu> | must wait lol |
| 14:27 | <Nitrodev> | i'm losing money |
| 14:27 | <@Alberth> | click on the vehicle list, and sort on income |
| 14:28 | <@Alberth> | look at the vehicles with negative profits :p |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | Samu: close the window, stuff scrolls a lot quicker then |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | minimize, actually |
| 14:30 | <Samu> | :) i did that, still not reached the end |
| 14:30 | <@Alberth> | 1TB is a lot of lines :) |
| 14:31 | <@Alberth> | imagine you have a disk that has 100 times that :) |
| 14:31 | <Samu> | did i say tb? |
| 14:31 | <Samu> | crap, it's 1 GB |
| 14:31 | <Samu> | lol i'm so dumb at times |
| 14:32 | <Samu> | let me see |
| 14:32 | <Samu> | 1,06 GB (1.143.425.929 bytes) |
| 14:32 | <Samu> | yeah 1,06GB |
| 14:32 | <Samu> | how did I come up with TB |
| 14:33 | <Nitrodev> | every vehicle is making money... |
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| 14:38 | <Nitrodev> | -3000 dollars |
| 14:38 | <@Alberth> | too much loan? |
| 14:39 | <Nitrodev> | property mainttenance |
| 14:39 | <Nitrodev> | haven't touched loan |
| 14:40 | <Nitrodev> | i mean, i haven't gotten mroe loan |
| 14:40 | <Nitrodev> | since the game starts you off with a loan |
| 14:40 | <@Alberth> | ah, enabled infra structure thingie |
| 14:41 | <@Alberth> | infrastructure maintenance is its name |
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| 14:42 | <@Alberth> | yep, that grows exponentially as you have more tracks/roads/stations/etc |
| 14:42 | <@Alberth> | open the finances windows, bottom right has a "infrastructure window |
| 14:42 | <@Alberth> | button |
| 14:42 | <Nitrodev> | abandoned |
| 14:43 | <Samu> | real time priority, zzzz |
| 14:43 | <Nitrodev> | nah |
| 14:43 | <@Alberth> | zzzzz is very good, especially in horizontal position :) |
| 14:43 | <Nitrodev> | just got annoyed |
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| 14:43 | <Samu> | it can't go any faster than this :( |
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| 14:46 | <Samu> | nice, reachd the end of it |
| 14:46 | <Samu> | AI did not crash |
| 14:46 | <Samu> | still needs 15 more years for 2051 |
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| 16:00 | <Samu> | gelignite: did you create gelignAIte? |
| 16:02 | <gelignite> | it's been a while, but yes. |
| 16:04 | <Samu> | ah nice nice, do you want to participate on this topic?https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75176 |
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| 16:59 | <gelignite> | Samu, sure, but it'll take some time for me to get into that stuff again. as said, it's been a while and i forgot most of it. :-/ |
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| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | Is cat |
| 17:17 | <Wolf01> | Sure |
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| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | Is bed |
| 17:36 | <andythenorth> | Bad connection also |
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| 18:18 | <Samu> | something inside me tells me that the Zen cpus will be slightly below Broadwell level of performance |
| 18:19 | <Samu> | will be between Haswell and Broadwell |
| 18:19 | <Samu> | core ix-4xxx series and core ix-5xxx series |
| 18:20 | <Samu> | intel is launching core ix-7xxx series when zen come out... :( zen will disappoint |
| 18:24 | <Samu> | i even doubt a 4 core zen will match a 8 core bulldozer in some of the benchmarks |
| 18:25 | <Samu> | especially integer multi-threaded based |
| 18:31 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 19:46 | <Samu> | looks like trees actually affect AI perfomance |
| 19:46 | <Samu> | evil trees |
| 19:47 | <goodger> | is that just if the ents patch is enabled? |
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| 19:47 | <Samu> | affects some ais pathfinder cost predictions |
| 19:47 | <Samu> | i see incomplete roads |
| 19:49 | <Samu> | epictrans bankrupted again, I'm gonna try him on a map without trees |
| 19:49 | <Samu> | if any tree is placed, that's the ai placing them |
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| 20:03 | <Samu> | what is the ents patch? |
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| 20:27 | <goodger> | a joke |
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| 20:35 | -!- | Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> magnet.oftc.net quits: zwamkat, Cybertinus, Long_yanG, SpComb, Sheogorath, @planetmaker, czaks, Keridos, Prof_Frink, Kurimus_, (+96 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) |
| 20:36 | -!- | Netsplit over, joins: funnel, chnkr_, Long_yanG, @planetmaker, Nothing4You, APTX, Ram-Z, SpComb, murr4y, ToBeFree (+96 more) |
| 20:37 | <Samu> | epictrans still bankrupts... :( |
| 20:39 | <Samu> | i'm gonna give up on him |
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| 21:38 | <sim-al2> | RIP FLHerne's internet |
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| 21:39 | <alask0ud> | LOL |
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| 21:41 | <alask0ud> | dude. |
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| 22:56 | <Lejving> | Hey. I'm super new to openttd, two questions! Is zbase the "best" hd graphic mod, or at least the standard one? How can I enable more technology from the start (like electric trains), is it just to enter later start date? |
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| 22:59 | <supermop_> | id say ogfx is more of a standard |
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| 23:00 | <supermop_> | if you want different from default trains - including earlier electric trains, there are other train newgrfs |
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| 23:00 | <supermop_> | realistic and non-realistic |
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| 23:01 | <Lejving> | manpower ogfx-industries? |
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| 23:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, "ogfx" is shorthand for "OpenGFX", which is the first free base set that was develped. it is not high-res though |
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| 23:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | manpower industries is a grf that tries to make the game more challenging by requiring workers and stuff to produce goods |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Aug 25 00:00:12 2016 |
