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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-08-25

---Logopened Thu Aug 25 00:00:12 2016
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00:14<Ethereal_Whisper> screw you town, you're not allowed to grow.
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02:17<Nitrodev>Hi all
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02:38<ccfreak2k>Ethereal_Whisper I did something vaguely similar in a multiplayer game.
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02:38<ccfreak2k>I was building a train that circled the island for no reason other than I could do it.
02:38<ccfreak2k>A few other players were frantically trying to clear and build in front of me.
02:38<ccfreak2k>It ended in the total destruction of a small town.
02:38<ccfreak2k>Well, it didn't end. I built that railroad.
02:39<ccfreak2k>But it was the end for that town.
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05:22<Alkel_U3>and andy thought he has unstable connection :-)
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05:28<V453000>get rekt
05:28<V453000>brix tranez u wot m8
05:28<V453000>belts everywhere
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06:20<Samu>question about AI libraries
06:20<Samu>what are they used for ?
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06:21<Wolf01>Standard base of functions to share between AIs?
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06:23<Samu>hmm i see
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06:24<Samu>is there a library that deals with loan/money management?
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06:24<Wolf01>Maybe, if not try to write one ;)
06:24<Samu>uh :(
06:24<Samu>no, not me :(
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06:25<Samu>found this
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06:28<Samu>gosh... SynTrans bankrupted, money management
06:28<Samu>tons of profit and still bankrupts
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06:35<Samu>money management is the achilles' heel of some otherwise good ais
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06:36<Samu>wish i could help
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06:37<Samu>there are ais that are blatantly bad at turning a profit, i'm not refering to these, but to those that have huge profits and yet manage to bankrupt
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06:43<Samu>FLHerne: having trouble staying connected?
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06:48<Samu>uh, german commentary
06:48<Samu>local townid_a = townpoplist.Begin(); //suche die größte Stadt
06:48<Samu>what does it mean
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07:11<Samu>oops, when trying to fix money issues for epictrans,
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07:11<Samu>I made him wait indefinitely for money, i think i failed somewhere
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07:14<Samu>while (AICompany.GetBankBalance(AICompany.COMPANY_SELF+10000) < AIRoad.GetBuildCost(AIRoad.ROADTYPE_ROAD, AIRoad.BT_ROAD))
07:14<Samu>how much is 10000?
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07:15<Samu>or am I trying to get the bank balance of company 10001?
07:15<Samu>omg lol
07:16<Samu>i just imagined openttd with 10k companies
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07:50<Samu>what is wrong with FLHerne_ ?
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08:25<Samu>i'm looking at openttd code *FindClosestShipDepot(const Vehicle *v, uint max_distance)
08:26<Samu>it looks for the manhattan distance
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08:26<Samu>what is the depot is on a lake that the ship can't access?
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08:28<Samu>omg, this is so wrong
08:29<Samu>it should look for the closest ship depot that the ship has access to
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08:44<Samu> if (dist >= 130) { return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_TOO_FAR_FROM_PREVIOUS_DESTINATION);
08:44<Samu>why 130?
08:44<Samu>how did you came up with 130? :(
08:45<SpComb>someone forgot to do it properly and write `const int MAGIC_NUMBER_130 = 130;`
08:49<Samu>why check for YAPF?
08:49<Samu>i'm gonna try something
08:50<Samu>if (v->type == VEH_SHIP && == VPF_OPF) {
08:50<Samu>is it == or = ?
08:51<Snail>if it’s Matlab it should be ==
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09:09<Samu>the function at line 133 of ship_cmd.cpp needs rework, it's really bad the way it is
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09:11<Samu>just tested something, i placed a ship depot on a lake, innaccessible by the ship not on this lake, and another ship depot a bit further away, accessible by the ship
09:11<Samu>i told the ship to go to depot, and it picks the ship depot on the lake
09:12<Samu>it should run the pathfinder to look for the closest depot
09:12<Samu>how can i fix this? I'd like to change that function to be more "intelligent"
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09:30<Samu>who's a yapf expert?
09:33<Samu>:|, what am i supposed to do? this seems so simple, but it is so hard
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09:46<Samu>how do I understand the limits of the pathfinder?
09:46<Samu>i'd like to investigate
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09:59<Samu>uhm... nevermind, YAPF is doing great after all
10:00<Samu>it's just that strange limitation of 130 tiles that's confusing me, why did you decide to put it in?
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10:01<Samu>it's even running faster
10:02<Samu>must test this further, brb
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10:14<Samu>noob question, is there a hotkey for cloning vehicles?
10:14<Samu>i dont feel like clicking 5000 times
10:15<V453000>just clone the vehicle in the vehicle window?
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10:16<argoneus>good afternoon train friends
10:16<V453000>fuck tranez
10:17<andythenorth_>V453000 brix trainz?
10:17<V453000>shittin brix has slowed down a little bit lately
10:17<argoneus>>notice factorio is hiring python developers
10:17<argoneus>>get hyped and open it
10:17<V453000>a bit of identity crisis, wasn't sure what amount of detail I wantz
10:17<argoneus>>it's webdev
10:18<V453000>got quite a final model naow though, will try to render tonight
10:18<Samu>i'm at 2000, 3000 to go
10:22<Samu>2000 clicks to go
10:22<Samu>im tired already
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10:23<andythenorth_>That works
10:23<andythenorth_>Are those rivets?
10:24<V453000>rather screws
10:24<V453000>but yeah
10:24<argoneus>Samu: absolute madman
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10:26<andythenorth_>V 'done'
10:27<V453000>I think so
10:27<andythenorth_>looks like Micro Machines \o/
10:27<V453000>might paint some extra texture on it
10:27<V453000>even though I have a rule of no textures for brix XD
10:27<V453000>painted mess works
10:27<andythenorth_>I would leave it flat colour
10:28<andythenorth_>Reduce prominence of screws
10:28<V453000>yeah sure, just an extra multiply-like texture in spots
10:28<V453000>I guess yeah
10:28<V453000>they kind of hit the eyes hard
10:29<andythenorth_>Add grilles or ports in same colour as body if you want to break up the flat
10:29<V453000>did, didn't like it
10:29<V453000>I do want to keep some flat
10:29<V453000>preserves the general shape instead of making it a mess of details imo
10:33<V453000>also, this is a model-scene lighting setup, the final will probably be better lit
10:33<V453000>I model in blender and then export to max with vray
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10:34<Samu>yes, I did it! 5000 ships
10:40<Samu>holy crap what a giant stall
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10:46<Samu>ugly stalls, i wonder how the pathfinders do their work
10:46<Samu>i'm testing 5000 ships crossing a 1024x1024 map horizontally
10:47<andythenorth>RL ships are very inconvenient for ottd
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10:47<andythenorth>Basically standard small cargo ship carries most cargos, including containers
10:47<V453000>andythenorth: -insert comment-
10:47<V453000>yo Alberth
10:48<andythenorth>Lo Alberth
10:48<Samu>hi alberth, are you an expert on pathfinders? I'm trying to *ahem*... do something about the slowdowns
10:48<andythenorth>V reality needs rearranging
10:49<V453000>note the differences on the gray material of the coupling
10:49<V453000>and the rivets are too hidden now :D
10:50<supermop_>looks grim
10:50<@Alberth>Samu: I did look into path finder theory, and not much in the OpenTTD implementation
10:50<Samu>i've set up a map with 5000 ships, a worst case scenario, and see which pathfinder slows down the least, goiing from a corner to another
10:50<V453000>supermop_: the lighting is super provisional
10:50<Samu>map size 1024x1024
10:50<@Alberth>bit oversized coupling?
10:51<V453000>hell yeah Alberth
10:51<supermop_>the side panels seem like the panels from the erector set i had in the early 90s
10:51<@Alberth>Samu: that's not even close to worst case
10:52<Samu>could be 4096x4096, i know
10:52<@Alberth>Path-finders usually try to extend in a straight line to the destination, so the real problems arise when there are obstacles in the way
10:52<V453000>coupling is big because exaggerated shapes, me like
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10:53<V453000>& shit like filling gaps between units etc asdf
10:53<Samu>at first, i think there could be some sort of pathfind queuing
10:53<Samu>before computing it for a path or whatever th heck it does, queue that request
10:54<Samu>so, essentially, if the queue is full, let them vehicles be lost for a while
10:54<supermop_>i think the buffers throw me off
10:55<@Alberth>V: ah ok, filling space :) otherwise couplings are pretty much non-essential to show
10:55<V453000>are essential here
10:55<V453000>wheel aren't really visible so a coupling is the defining part of a train
10:55<V453000>vs a RV etc
10:55<@Alberth>fair enough :)
10:56<supermop_>i buy that
10:56<V453000>for example diesel trains don't have top pantograph
10:56<V453000>so they could get close to RV
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10:56<V453000>since they won't have this shit, it's clear
10:56<supermop_>radiator fan on top?
10:56<@Alberth>who said trains could not drive on road? :p
10:56<V453000>well yeah more or less
10:57<V453000>hm maybe I could render vehicles from max
10:57<V453000>I mean blender
10:57<V453000>but the amount of mess that is ._.
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11:03<Samu>darn, 5000 ships is too much
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11:10<Samu>even with only 50 ships the stalls are noticeable :(
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11:13<andythenorth>Bloody ships
11:16<Samu>seems the original pathfinder has the potential to be the least cpu intensive
11:16<Samu>i wish i could adjust some of its limitations
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11:18<andythenorth>To make it more accurate? o_O
11:19<Samu>he seems to throw things towards a direction and then hope for the best, until in finds something wrong, then tries to fix it
11:20<Samu>he throws ships towards a direction and then hope for the best, until it finds an obstacle
11:21<Samu>original also has a "stable" cpu usage
11:21<Samu>the others have a "peaky" cpu usage
11:21<Samu>they cause stalls
11:22<andythenorth>Stupid ships :p
11:22<andythenorth>How do I make a 'bulk cargo' ship look different to general cargo ship?
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11:23<andythenorth>For RVs one is dump truck, one open truck, and I can make them look different even though they are only 32px wide and 6px high :p
11:23<andythenorth>Ship is much bigger, shoukd have much more eye candy possibility
11:23<V453000>you give it a gigantic hopper?
11:25<Samu>look at cpu usage
11:25<andythenorth>V453000 maybe :p
11:29<Samu>hmm, some random idea
11:29<Samu>spreading ships to avoid "peak"
11:29<Samu>peak usage
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11:30<Samu>would mask that peak usage if the pathfinder isn't requested at the exact same time, i think
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11:31<Samu>the screenshot shows 1 ship, but that's actually 50 ships stacked together
11:31<Samu>at middle and at right
11:31<andythenorth>Ships need to not have hold covers
11:32<andythenorth>Like this one
11:32<andythenorth>So cargo can be seen
11:33<Samu>i dunno what to say, just randomly throwing ideas
11:33<Samu>I'm of no help
11:40<Samu>could the pathfinder, or just some parts of it, be started on a 2nd thread, avoid stalls?
11:40<Samu>i still see the peak being 12.5%
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11:42<@Rubidium>not feasibly; path finding depends on other vehicles, so running it asynchroniously makes pathfinding undeterministic and as such breaks multiplayer
11:44<@Rubidium>also, pathfinding is done in the middle of the vehicle moving process, so you'd need to introduce some extra states for vehicles that are waiting to get their pathfinding results and then continue where they were
11:44<@Rubidium>which makes it even trickier
11:44<@Alberth>last but not least, moving it to another CPU does not decrease CPU usage, you just shift it
11:45<Samu>i meant only for ships
11:45<@Rubidium>having said that, you can make a game that does spread the load over all CPUs, but then you have to give up some of the other features of OpenTTD
11:45<Samu>ships can cross each other
11:46<@Rubidium>they still interact at stations when (un)loading
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11:49<@Rubidium>the only reasonable solution for improving ship pathfinding seems to be implementing shipping "lanes", that is "road" in the water that ships should follow
11:49<andythenorth> Auto-bouy
11:49<@Rubidium>that reduces the number of choices so dramatically that pathfinding becomes cheaper and better cachable
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11:50<@Alberth>What about Jump-Point search?
11:51<andythenorth>Pre-seed the map with hidden bouys, on 16-tile grid? Then keep a linkgraph between the nodes?
11:51<andythenorth>The linkgraph will be hideously big for 16 tile grid :(
11:52<andythenorth>But pathfinder would be much faster :)
11:52<@Alberth>you don't unload cargo at a bouy :)
11:53<andythenorth>Dock - [bouys] - dock
11:54<@Alberth>maybe caching a path between docks is enough already
11:54<@Alberth>except that fails for lost ships
11:55<Samu>interesting observation, the OPF ships are the first to arrive at the destination
11:56<Samu>in real time that is
11:56<@Alberth>less CPU usage, I guess
11:56<Samu>in openttd game time... not really
11:57<Samu>considerably less cpu time
11:58<Samu>well, i lie, they didn't arrive yet, but they're the first to approach it, i hope they dont get lost
11:59<@Alberth>OPF takess less cpu time, but is also less powerful
11:59<@Alberth>ie it looses ships more often
12:00<Samu>9 jul 1955, the first ship arrived
12:00<Samu>about 22 secs cpu time
12:00<Alkel_U3>well, not only ships, should it be trusted with something else :-)
12:02<Alkel_U3>I remember seeing AI's trucks spinning forever in would-seem-like-a-shortcut loop instead of taking a detour to actually take the bridge to lead to their destination
12:02<Samu>27 aug 1955, last ship arrived
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12:02<Samu>for OPF
12:02<Samu>now who's next?
12:02<Samu>i guess it will be YAPF with his stack of 50 ships
12:03<Samu>i notice YAPF peaks are less intense
12:03<Samu>as the ship approach destination
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12:04<Samu>peaking to about 2.78%
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12:06<Samu>about 1.10% when almost there
12:06<Samu>something like 10 tiles away
12:07<Samu>reached destination at 16 jan 1955
12:07<Samu>faster in game time, but not in cpu time
12:07<Samu>user time or whatever u call it
12:07<Samu>cpu time was 15 minutes, 10 seconds
12:08<Samu>waiting for NPF now
12:10<andythenorth>So layered sprites
12:10<andythenorth>Means I can animate ship wakes
12:11<Samu>oh, Alberth this is a problem
12:11<Samu>closest depot could be on a lake that the ship can't access
12:11<andythenorth>Why blame alberth? :p
12:11<Samu>i dunno, anyone then
12:12<@Alberth>There is an issue about that, afaik
12:12<@Alberth>basically, the solution is "improve the path finder to be less stupid"
12:13<Samu>it's not a path finder issue, at least it's not directly his fault
12:13<Samu>he is given the coordinates of a depot
12:14<andythenorth>Each isolated body of water gets a linkgraph for routing? :p
12:14<andythenorth>Don't try and route off the graph?
12:16<Samu>given a ship position, pathfind the closest accessible ship depot nearby
12:16<supermop_>make bouys work different
12:16<supermop_>build a route with them
12:16<Samu>what that function is doing is, given a ship position, get the coordinates of the closest ship depot nearby
12:17<Samu>wrong implementation :( how do I fix
12:17<supermop_>and if point between bouys gets broken/blocked try to route around? but otherwise dont pathfind for each ship journet
12:18*andythenorth bets ship pathfinding is fine, until some inflection point
12:19<Samu>yapf seems to be the most accurate
12:19<andythenorth>My guess is, just need to reduce the area considered
12:19<andythenorth>Which is what the yapf limit does
12:19<Samu>original is easy on cpu usage, and apparently efficient enough provided the ships don't get lost, but... they do
12:20<andythenorth>But current limit tuned to gameplay not cpu use
12:20*andythenorth guessing 100%
12:22<Samu>NPF ships have arrived, 16 jan 1955
12:22<Samu>29 min, 40 sec cpu time, that's nearly the double of YAPF
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12:26<Samu>if (IsShipDepotTile(tile) && IsTileOwner(tile, v->owner)) && "is this ship depot reachable?"
12:26<Samu>help me code that part, where do i look for?
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12:34<andythenorth>RL needs more cargo-visible ships like
12:35<@Alberth>Such an appropriate ship name :p
12:35<@Alberth>translated: "variation"
12:36<@Alberth>RL is probably bothered by bad weather, and the show must go on
12:36<andythenorth>At sea, open hatches = sinking
12:37<@Alberth>makes sense
12:37<@Alberth>another RL problem :p
12:37<andythenorth>Does openttd have 'sea' or 'water'?
12:38*andythenorth is not near an openttd right now
12:38<@Alberth>afaik we do have sea and not sea
12:38<@Alberth>except I don't know what variations the latter contains
12:39<andythenorth>Canal, river
12:42<andythenorth>As long as we don't add weather, I can use open-topped ships :p
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12:48<andythenorth> It's a beaut
12:48<andythenorth>No mixed pax/cargo ships :p
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12:53<andythenorth>Bloody ships
12:53<andythenorth>Too many wrong turns with FISH :p
12:53<andythenorth>Too many sprites I want to reuse :p
12:53<andythenorth>Not helping
12:54<V453000>wtf are you doing now?
12:54<supermop_>write something in python that automatically makes a ship grf
12:54<V453000>nice idea
12:54<supermop_>and chooses stats on its own with no input from you
12:55<andythenorth>Stats fine, but sprites also :p
12:56<V453000>and then write a script to push outputs to bananas
12:56<V453000>one of them will be a good grf perhaps
12:56<andythenorth>'Use algos' :p
12:57<andythenorth>V453000 I will be needing you to render some stuff thanks
12:57<andythenorth>Also mostly realism, some chibi
12:57<V453000>sure after I am done with BRIX and PART
12:57<andythenorth>And to correct lengths for all angles :p
12:58<andythenorth>'Correct' for original ttd way of counting
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13:05<andythenorth>Diagonal lengths
13:05<andythenorth>Most of FISH is wrong because it was based on iso renders
13:05<V453000>ships don't care about that?
13:05<andythenorth>Looks wrong :p
13:05<V453000>it can't look wrong if it's rendered so it's physically correct
13:05<andythenorth>Not chibi enough in / views
13:05<V453000>trains look wrong when taking turn
13:06<andythenorth>I am used to it :D
13:06<andythenorth>Wrong becomes right
13:06<V453000>cpu had nothing to do
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13:07<V453000>x40 zoom yet?
13:07<Samu>gah... i dunno where to start, any hint?
13:08<andythenorth>V put fork in it, that's done
13:08<Samu>i want to create a list of depots that are accessible for the ship
13:08<andythenorth>Except maybe...stickers? o_O
13:08<Samu>once the list done, pick the closest depot from that list
13:08<V453000>andythenorth: I will also make the sharp meshes with subdivision and likely slap the edge detecting material on all of it
13:08<Samu>so, how am i doing this?
13:08<V453000>it adds a lot of depth
13:08<V453000>stickers probably not
13:09<Samu>i want to avoid pathfinding for every depot out there, then again, i dont even know how to make openttd pathfind
13:09<Samu>i'm pretty much lost
13:09<andythenorth>V something printed on sides of cabs
13:10<andythenorth>Barcode? :D
13:10<V453000>not a retarded idea
13:10<andythenorth>Needs something
13:10<andythenorth>Real trains have numbers, logos, data plates etc
13:10<V453000>exactly, this isn't real train :D
13:11<V453000>but I will consider something
13:11<V453000>nyway, I gtfo
13:15<andythenorth>Which ones are similar capacities? :p
13:17<@Alberth>so many :)
13:18<andythenorth>If I have 10 types of cargo ship, I need ways to make them look different per type, but all equivalent sized, roughly
13:18<andythenorth>(10 types, 3 capacities, 30 in total)
13:19<Samu>bah, too long to save errors
13:19<andythenorth>Mixing barges and ships is one way to add variety, but sizes then look quite different
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13:25<@Alberth>looks very nice, imho
13:27<Samu>gonna post a patch,brb
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13:32*andythenorth wonders about just two sizes of ship per type :p
13:32<andythenorth>Dunno if that works though
13:34<andythenorth>In my games, primary cargo routes tend to need more or larger ships than secondary
13:34<andythenorth>Because of cargo processing ratios at industries, and because secondary cargos often have more destinations
13:43<Samu> - plz implement :)
13:43<@Alberth>maybe because FIRS doesn't give more output on secondary?
13:46<@Alberth>at least, with trains and default set, secondary and tertiary industries give more output
13:46<andythenorth>Which is fine, but means wider range of ship sizes needed :p
13:47<andythenorth>'Small' and 'big' is quite appealing :)
13:47<@Alberth>just make "big" a little bigger :)
13:47<@Alberth>it's easy to just buy more ships
13:48<@Alberth>in case big is too big
13:50<Samu>gonna test YAPF unlimited
13:50<Samu>see if the AIs actually benefit from it
13:51<Samu>I expect that they do
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13:58<andythenorth>So what's the Goldilocks size for freight ships?
13:58<andythenorth>I thought it was 360t, but it would be convenientbif it was 240t or so :p
13:58<@Alberth>smallest size?
13:59<@Alberth>360t for smallest size seems a bit large indeed
13:59<andythenorth>Goldilocks = most commonly used
13:59<@Alberth>since you don't always have lots to move, it just needs to be transported across water
14:00<andythenorth>There will be some kind of small 'all freight' ship below 100t ;)
14:00<@Alberth>train is around 250-300 t, so 240t looks fine to me
14:01<andythenorth>But the types - refrigerated, livestock, wood etc - would be 2 or 3 sizes
14:01<andythenorth>180, 360, 720 or 240, 720
14:01<andythenorth>Or so
14:02<@Alberth>the *2 concept seems a bit weird to me
14:02<andythenorth>180->360 is possibly too close
14:02<andythenorth>3 sizes means 90 ships, all looking similar-but-unique
14:02<@Alberth>240, 720 would be ok
14:03<andythenorth>2 sizes means 60 ships
14:03<andythenorth>As they all have to be drawn...2 is better :p
14:03<@Alberth>would be a nice test, imho
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14:03<@Alberth>if it doesn't work, you can add one in-between, possibly with a bit rescaling
14:04<andythenorth>Also it's easier to maintain graphical variety between 60 ships than 90
14:04<andythenorth>Also sanity :p
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14:05<@Alberth>you could add some really small ones and make them refittable, if you want an even smaller size
14:05<andythenorth>Yes, they will just be generic cargo
14:05<@Alberth>but they mostly only make sense at a river or so
14:06<andythenorth>Narrow gauge IH doesn't have all types of wagon that standard rail has, for example
14:10<andythenorth>Better to not reuse FISH sprites directly
14:11<andythenorth>I can adjust sizing, making all ships bigger relative to FISH
14:11<andythenorth>These means more detail for small ships
14:12<andythenorth>But because there are no really high capacity ships, the biggest sprites will still be smaller than FISH
14:12<andythenorth>Reducing clipping issues
14:13<Wolf01>Just finished building one Claas Xerion
14:13<andythenorth>Any good?
14:14<Wolf01>Yes, one of the best sets I purchased
14:16<Wolf01>The second one will be heavily modded to be fully RC
14:16<andythenorth>Something about the lime green makes me feel ill
14:16<andythenorth>No matter how good the set :d
14:16<andythenorth>I built a xerion ~10 years ago, but had to rebuild it yellow as JCB fastrac :D
14:19<supermop_>andythenorth: a 100t all cargo ship i would use for 80% of routes
14:20<andythenorth>that's goldilocks for you?
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14:25<Samu>this needs fixing
14:25<Samu>ais would greatly benefit from it
14:25<Samu>sorry for insisting :(
14:38<@Alberth>unlimited distance search? not likely to happen, imho
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14:39<@Alberth>besides a useful tool for a deny-of-service attack, I see no poiint in sending a ship to the other side of the map at all
14:40<@Alberth>not to mention manhattan distance has nothing to do with real distance
14:40<Samu>unlimited distance search is already in NPF
14:41<Samu>and NPF performs worse
14:41<Samu>why not on YAPF?
14:43<Samu>I'm testing YAPF unlimited with OtviAI right now, on fast forward, hope he gets to 2051 today
14:44<Samu>his script does fail on some routes, he tries to have ships access lakes
14:44<Samu>there is no way a ship would get there, no matter the pathfinder
14:44<Samu>on the other hand, he no longer generates ships with single orders thx to the unlimited destination
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14:46<Samu>there are some of the ships of his that want to reach ship depots, but... YAPF isn't "smart" enough to find a route for it
14:46<Samu>NPF would do way worse by the way
14:46<Samu>there are other ship depots, a bit more distant, but more easily reachable for the ship and the pathfinder
14:46<Samu>but that code uses manhatan distance and that's not ideal :(
14:48<Samu>fixing that part of the code and OtviAI would only be failing 99% of the time due to his own mistakes
14:48<Samu>not because of the pathfinder
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15:02<supermop_>V453000: procedural bricks/tiles in vray - is it possible?
15:02<V453000>idk based on software probably
15:02<V453000>vray just renders shit
15:03<supermop_>making vray materials is hard
15:20<supermop_>V453000: grime -
15:21<ElleKitty>Oooo some procedural cavity action
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15:21<ElleKitty>No... this isnt cavity... this is inverted AO
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15:22<V453000>no that is just simple ao
15:22<V453000>which is fine :)
15:23<ElleKitty>supermop_ Having access to various maps, such as the brick pattern, will probably be provided by your modelling program of choice. Your renderer is only likely to provide some technical maps, such as noises and curvatures and such
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15:24<ElleKitty>Oh wait, I just saw this: And immediately said "Inverted AO". but yeah, this is the overall AO map. Mental Ray has such one too.
15:25<ElleKitty>Inverted AO is for fake Sub Surface Scattering
15:26<supermop_>ElleKitty: what i miss is the ability to create a material that has procedural tile behavior
15:26<ElleKitty>Which program?
15:26<ElleKitty>There is such one in Max
15:27<supermop_>not to change the geometry, on the way my geometry gets drawn at render
15:27<supermop_>vray for rhino
15:27<supermop_>flamingo can do this easily
15:27<V453000>just take a tileable brick texture
15:27<V453000>and you're fine
15:28<supermop_>V453000: not using bricks tho
15:28<V453000>something else then
15:28<supermop_>so now my only option is to make a texture in PS
15:30<supermop_>i don't want a texture of tiles, i want my software to divide my surface into regions and choose by some rng or procedural means to use say 'concrete A' on this tile, then 'concrete b' on that tile etc
15:30<supermop_>and the chose a different texture for the grout between
15:31<supermop_>so i get some randomness
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15:31<supermop_>will try this:
15:32<supermop_>even tho that seems to be for rhino materials not vray materials
15:41<ElleKitty>supermop_ You can get any kind of material or map you want by scripting... But not everyone can script a new map from scratch. I, for example, dont know how to do it in Max.
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15:46<supermop_>i cant get procedural tiles in rhino material now
15:47<supermop_>but cant figure out how to vary texture between tiles now
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16:15<supermop_>ended up just asking my intern to make a big seamless image of a random combination of 4 different tiles
16:20<Samu>is there a better function to check for ships on ground, and only ships
16:21<Samu>for what i'm doing, if it finds a road vehicle it would make no sense
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17:05<Samu>there are 12 cases in which upon placing a ship depot, a ship may be blocked, actually 24 cases, because 2 ship depots
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17:37<Samu>those track pieces are where a ship cannot be found when placing the ship depot, dock or lock
17:38<Samu>otherwise it may risk blocking the ship
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18:01<supermop_>i feel like buying this file:
18:07<Samu>i'm bored :(
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18:11<Samu>GetTrackBits is returning rail tracks, right?
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18:11<Samu>what about the water equivalent? :(
18:13<Samu>bah asserts...
18:18<Samu>this function hmm uhmmm :(
18:18<Samu>im so confused :(
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18:38<Samu>tb = TrackStatusToTrackBits(GetTileTrackStatus(tile + (axis == AXIS_X ? TileDiffXY(0, -1) : TileDiffXY(-1, 0)), TRANSPORT_WATER, 0));
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18:40<NGC3982>This game is actually quite nice.
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18:43<Eddi|zuHause>seems you don't quite have enough money :p
18:44<Samu>erm, too many conversions taking place
18:45<Samu>trackstatus to trackbits to trackdirbits, so confusing, when in the end it works with trackbits which is what i want
18:46<Samu>whatever, I got the trackbits equal to TRACK_BIT_ALL
18:49<Samu>now how do I check if the trackbits that I found have at least one of these tracks in it: TRACK_BIT_LOWER, TRACK_BIT_RIGHT, TRACK_BIT_Y
18:49<Samu>I know TRACK_BIT_ALL have all three, but how exactly to i make the comparison
18:51<Samu>if (TRACK_BIT_ALL & TRACK_BIT_RIGHT != 0)? what operators am i supposed to use grrr
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20:23<Samu>yes! I did it!
20:23<Samu>code is a bit repeating, but meh, it gets the job done
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20:25<Samu>i'm just a bit sad I can't specify a vehicle type, maybe I can, needs to investigate better
20:26<Samu>CommandCost EnsureNoVehicleOnGround(TileIndex tile)
20:27<Samu>i'd like to specify vehicle of type Ship
20:27<Samu>any hint?
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20:41<Samu>EnsureNoShipOnWater; just invented, a fork of EnsureNoVehicleOnGround
20:41<Samu>let's see if it works
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20:51<Samu>looks like i don't actually need to create such function, :)
20:51<Samu>removed it
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---Logclosed Fri Aug 26 00:00:13 2016