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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-02

---Logopened Fri Sep 02 00:00:23 2016
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03:00<Lejving>any tips on how to scramble passenger trains? now they all go for the same place and building a long ass queue :/
03:03<Alkel_U3>yeah, use timetables with slightly longer times than needed for one trip and set starting dates of vehicles so that they're spaced appart
03:04<Alkel_U3>there's also some feature that will adjust the starting dates of the group with shared orders automatically that involves ctrl-click in timetables window, but I don't remember precisely how to do that
03:06<Alkel_U3>so as I said yesterday - use autofill to fill the timetable and then raise the time for the train to stay in stations where it won't be too much in the way
03:06<Lejving>ctrl+click on start date
03:06<Lejving>yeah
03:06<Lejving>I think I get it
03:06<Alkel_U3>yeah, that makes sense
03:06<Lejving>somehow that first sentence made so much sense
03:14<Lejving>I would really like a random function though, so they go to any random station on the list ^^
03:15<Alkel_U3>That would be total mayham
03:15<Alkel_U3>above all, cargodist wouldn't work with that
03:18<Lejving>btw do you know if universal rail makes things crash? I had a lot of crash, but once I took that off it seems fine
03:18<Lejving>the game that is
03:18<Lejving>not trains ^^
03:31<Alkel_U3>sound like ysomething you should report
03:31<Alkel_U3>I don't use that so I don't know
03:32<Alkel_U3>but it probably shouldn't
03:32<Alkel_U3>(obviously)
03:32<Lejving>yeah
03:32<Lejving>well maybe it's like a known thing maybe
03:32<Lejving>that's why I asked
03:37<Lejving>Alkel_U3, if it's say 10 days late, that means I have an too optimistic timetable... right?
03:37<Lejving>and I need to increase either travel time or stay time for stations
03:38<Lejving>I noticed you could also set speed limit, setting it to 611km/h since that's top speed for bridges should help with spacing (breaking is really bad in traffic isn't it)
03:38<Lejving>braking*
03:42<Alkel_U3>Lejving: yup
03:43<Alkel_U3>I only apply the speed limit with level crossings but having the traffic go at one top speed might be benefical especially with heavy freight trains
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03:45<Wolf01>moin
04:17<Lejving>http://i.imgur.com/RhX3rhK.png I like
05:08<Wolf01>Too many signals, my eyes are bleeding
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05:21<andythenorth>Unsinkable Sam should have been called “Skipskatt”
05:21<andythenorth>Norwegians can translate ;)
05:21<andythenorth>http://messybeast.com/poly-cats.html
05:27<Wolf01>o/
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07:16<Lejving>Wolf01, sorry for your bleeeding =/
07:21<Flygon>Why did I read that as Breeding
07:21<Lejving>3 e
07:21<Lejving>that's why
07:21<Lejving>:)
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07:32<V453000>ASS BLEEDING?
07:32<Lejving>the fuq
07:32<Lejving>you're in wrong channel
07:32<Lejving>factorio is that way V453000 ---->
07:34<Wolf01> So V, I'm trying the new 0.14, something seem to work better
07:35<Lejving>did you have ministutters?
07:35<Wolf01> Also did you change the oil wells graphics? They look smoother, or maybe I have a short memory
07:39<V453000>I think 0.14 is literally only the multiplayer Wolf01
07:39<V453000>Lejving: :(
07:40<Wolf01>Maybe I just changed some graphic setting with nvidia games optimization
07:40<V453000>XD
07:40<V453000>I don't think that should hcange anything
07:41<V453000>but fuck knows
07:41<Lejving>well wasn't it like 13.17 or so that introduced vsync again
07:41<Lejving>(if he maybe updated from 13.16->14)
07:42<Wolf01>I was a bit behind with versions, maybe even 0.13.4
07:43<Wolf01>*14
07:44<Lejving>13.16
07:44<Lejving>Reverted the change from Version: 0.13.12 that would disable and hide vsync in some cases.
07:44<Lejving>some people said that messed with their framerate
07:44<Wolf01>0.13.12 I think it was the last time I played
07:44<andythenorth>where is BRIX tho
07:44<andythenorth>:P
07:46<Lejving>V453000, wanna know something crazy? I've played a lot of factorio, and I read some stuff about trains and someone mentioned you did mods for openttd, that got me into trying it now ^^
07:47<V453000>nice :D
07:47<V453000>BRIX soon(tm) :P
07:47<V453000>turns out trainz are fuckload more work than me thought
07:48<Lejving>my biggest factorio map with like 150 trains is like 10 ups
07:48<Lejving>and if I place one train section down, every train repath and I get 2 ups
07:49<Lejving>sometimes train update time is like 20/0/0
07:50<andythenorth>V453000: I think I’ll have new ship set done in a few days
07:50<andythenorth>‘a few days’ ™
07:51<V453000>well yeah but you are probably reusing graphics, OR daring to use some placeholder caterpillar boxes vehicul spritoz
07:53<andythenorth>more like about 18 months I think
07:53<andythenorth>before I have something I’d release properly
07:53<andythenorth>I want ships-not-shit
07:53<andythenorth>cargo sprites and stuff
07:53<andythenorth>cows
07:53<V453000>XD
07:53<V453000>cargo sprites are win
07:54<andythenorth>game mostly is cargo sprites
07:54<andythenorth>you convinced me
07:54<V453000>excellent
07:54<andythenorth>when I started, it was ‘I want to draw this cool looking vehicle'
07:54<V453000>now go request layered ship sprites from frosch :P
07:54<andythenorth>exists :P
07:54<V453000>nice
07:54<V453000>I am totally going to do wild shit with it with my next train set
07:55<andythenorth>now it’s “I want to see cargo, and vehicles need to look distinct in buy menu” :P
07:55<andythenorth>‘draw cool vehicles’ is a long way down list
07:57<V453000>XD
08:00<Wolf01>Oh, I just found that white stack inserter graphic is inconsistent between up and down orientation
08:04<Wolf01>No, it's just the angle
08:04<Wolf01>The double beam is not really visible when facing up
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08:11<V453000>xd
08:12<Wolf01>When do you go full 3D so we could have 22.5° map rotation? ;)
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08:30<Flygon>Nah, we just need a Civ II-style map mode :B
08:30<Flygon>Square Map, Diamond Tiles
08:30<Flygon>Able to warp around xP
08:30<Wolf01>Yup
08:30<Wolf01>It would be a great improvement
08:31<Flygon>Just a shame that'd require rewriting all the pathfinder code (probably) :U
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08:32<Wolf01>Also hex tiles, many more combinations!
08:38<Wolf01>http://media.pyweek.org/dl/2/PySwec/Shot0126.JPG
08:39<Flygon>Ehhh
08:39<Flygon>Hex tiles in OpenTTD has it's flaws <_>
08:39<Flygon>No more vertical or horizontal
08:40<@peter1138>simple solution, don't use tiles
08:43<Flygon>Shame that needs a new engine =/
08:53<@peter1138>"shame"
08:55<andythenorth>square tiles ftw
08:55<goodger>underground stations would also need a new engine
09:00<andythenorth>“Mitten Kittens”
09:00<goodger>:3
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10:13<supermop>yo
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10:15<@Alberth>o/
10:15<Wolf01>o/
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10:32<supermop_>any excuse to ramble about metabolists on the forum, i will take
10:39<@Alberth>I haven't read that part yet, I think :)
10:40<@Alberth>unless it involves people that want to hide vehicles at bridges :p
10:40<andythenorth>does it involve cats on boats?
10:40<andythenorth>with extra toes?
10:40<@Alberth>could be, at least there are houses on the bridge
10:41<@Alberth>and I truely don't understand why they do that
10:41<@Alberth>I mean, will the bridge drown when it rains or so?
10:42<@peter1138>eh
10:44<@peter1138>fosterize
10:44<@peter1138>nice
10:44<@Alberth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1176007#p1176007 <-- as illustration :)
10:45<supermop_>Alberth: back before we had steel truss bridges, we built them with roofs so that the wood would last longer before rotting
10:45<@Alberth>ah,makes sense
10:45<supermop_>i've never seen one for trains, only small country roads in remote counties across the northern US
10:46<@Alberth>wooden bridge and train may not be compatible :p
10:46<supermop_>some are from the 20th century, but typically only when built to replace a much older pridge
10:46<supermop_>Alberth: not in america! we have lots
10:46<@peter1138>"The purpose of the covering is to protect the wooden structural members from the weather."
10:46<@peter1138>so
10:47<@peter1138>also keeps the surface clear of snow i suppose
10:47<supermop_>Alberth: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Wooden_railroad_trestle_W_side.jpg
10:47<supermop_>for trains, we had these after creosote was discovered
10:48<@Alberth>rollercoasters!
10:48<supermop_>some are still in use, many are on hiking trails now
10:48*andythenorth ponders bridge set
10:48<@Alberth>only 13 bridges, shouldn't be much of a problem :p
10:48<andythenorth>just make one
10:48<andythenorth>choosing bridges is boring?
10:48<andythenorth>minimalism?
10:48<andythenorth>spartan?
10:49<supermop_>they always smell strongly of creosote, but they do not ever have the over-deck truss and roof that a covered bridge has
10:49<@Alberth>+1
10:49<supermop_>locomotive would likely have set the roof on fire anyway
10:49<@Alberth>haha :)
10:49<@Alberth>bridge for 1-time use :p
10:50<supermop_>i only use regular steel truss in game unless i've started too early for it
10:50<supermop_>looks good, trains go fast enough on it
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11:09<supermop>https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Wooden_railroad_trestle_W_side.jpg
11:09<supermop>need curved bridges
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>wrong link?
11:13<supermop>oops
11:13<supermop>http://www.sonic.net/~mfreeman/bike/bourland_trestle.jpg
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11:38<supermop>had dream about firs last night
11:39<andythenorth>nice
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11:50<supermop>british economy had a ceramics chain
11:50<supermop>that oddly enough began at a cermaics farm
11:50<supermop>ceramics
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12:37<@Alberth>o/
12:39<frosch123>moi
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13:15<Wolf01>http://www.monochrom.at/turingtrainterminal/Chalcraft.pdf interesting
13:15<Wolf01>Rail track turing machine
13:16<Wolf01>Let's go try it in OTTD
13:28-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po1-84-91-250-188.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
13:28<Samu>hello
13:29<Samu>has anyone looked into this yet? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74253&p=1175791#p1175791
13:31<Samu>I've finally tested W <-> E direction for roads
13:31<Samu>travel time W -> E and E -> W is nearly consistent
13:32<Samu>albeit the result is not what I was hoping for t.t
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13:58<_dp_>Samu, you can try using my script from FS#6503 to check subtile coordinates of vehicle, it may shed some light on the issue
13:59<_dp_>Samu, though it may require some adjustment as rv coordinates probably work slightly different
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---Logclosed Fri Sep 02 14:27:16 2016
---Logopened Fri Sep 02 15:13:00 2016
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15:36<andythenorth>ha
15:36<andythenorth>I’ll leave the ships for a bit
15:36<andythenorth>"Road Hog is not done”
15:42<Samu>i tried running openttd on a really old notebook
15:43<Samu>with 128 MB ram
15:43<Samu>it first complained about sprite cache
15:43<Samu>then complained about zoom and cache
15:44<Samu>then windows xp goes on about page file limitation issues and autoadjusted it
15:45<Samu>http://wiki.openttd.org/Sprite_cache_size_px
15:45<Samu>what is the lowest value i can set there?
15:45<Samu>and uhm... what else can I do to reduce ram usage ?
15:46<Samu>openttd does run, but there is a lot of page file swap and hdd seeks a lot
15:50<@peter1138>set max zoom to 1x
15:50<@peter1138>use 8bpp graphics set
15:50<@peter1138>use a normal size map (256x256 max)
15:52<Samu>ah, i remember something else, there was some autosaving errors, albeit rare
15:52<Samu>could not initialize compressor or something
15:55<Samu>8bpp simple or 8bpp optimized?
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15:57<@Alberth>optimized sounds better
15:58<@Alberth>but the biggest gain is not 32bpp :)
16:00<supermop>yo
16:01<andythenorth>hmm
16:01<andythenorth>nobody has drawn these trams while I was on holiday :(
16:01*andythenorth can’t get the help :P
16:01<supermop>whats andy pondering
16:01<supermop>what trams?
16:01<andythenorth>Road Hog
16:01<supermop>can it be solved with more green boxcars?
16:01<andythenorth>3rd generation
16:02<andythenorth>I have drawn beautiful – views
16:02<andythenorth>but not the rest :P
16:02<supermop>i feel like drawing some comeng style trams
16:02<supermop>ahah
16:02<andythenorth>and they’re asymmetric, for extra lawks
16:02<andythenorth>I should stick to symmetrical
16:03<andythenorth>you could do the melbourne parcels tram :P
16:03<andythenorth>I need parcels trams
16:03<supermop>thats pre- comeng
16:03<supermop>30s ish i recall
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16:04<andythenorth>http://tdu.to/a8339/98U_SHB_rail_removal_24-7-1958.jpg
16:04<andythenorth>also
16:04<supermop>all ottd trams should be single ended as they never reverse
16:04<andythenorth>nah
16:04<andythenorth>harder to draw :P
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16:05<andythenorth>http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/private/Elizabeth1962.jpg
16:06<andythenorth>http://www.thecollectormm.com.au/private/FlindersLane1957.jpg
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16:07<supermop>thats not flinders lane,
16:07<supermop>flinders lane doesnt have tramway
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16:19<Samu>where is this GfxClearSpriteCache() defined? I don't have access to visual studio on this computer
16:21<Samu>better yet, _sprite_cache_size
16:21<Samu>where is this used
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16:30<Samu>i found it!
16:30<Samu>ErrorMessageData msg(STR_CONFIG_ERROR_OUT_OF_MEMORY, STR_CONFIG_ERROR_SPRITECACHE_TOO_BIG);
16:30<Samu>yeah that was the error i got
16:32<Samu>so, 1 MiB is the minimum that can be set? seems quite low
16:32<Samu>will try
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16:32<Samu>oops, closed window
16:36<Samu>very sluggish
16:42<Samu>erm, 8bpp-simple seems bugged on max zoom out
16:43<Samu>i get screen corruption on scrolling
16:43<Samu>8bpp-optimized doesn't have this problem
16:45<Samu>sec, let me screenshot
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16:47<Samu>8bpp-simple max zoom out http://imgur.com/a/Ghn99
16:47<Samu>corruption trail
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16:59<@peter1138>simple still exists?
17:01<frosch123>debug was removed at some point :p
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17:23<@peter1138>yeah i think simple was meant to be as well
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18:16<Samu>just tried sprite_cache_size_px = 1
18:17<Samu>on the celeron system
18:17<Samu>much better
18:18<Samu>Page File size is at ~90 MiB now
18:19<Samu>but something surprised me though
18:20<Samu>when i tried sprite_cache_size_px = 1 on the core i5-2500, the game became very very slow
18:20<Samu>but on the piece of crap celeron from 15 years ago, it is doing good
18:20<Samu>no slugginess
18:23<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 03 00:00:52 2016