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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-16

---Logopened Fri Sep 16 00:00:18 2016
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04:47<Wolf01>Just installed Space Engineers, the first thing I managed to do is to break my ship in half
04:49<Wolf01>Back to Reassembly, at least there ships rebuild by themselves
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05:00<V453000>500 people at the same time on 1 factorio server yesterday XD
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05:27<Samu>i was thinking
05:28<Samu>what if locks were waypoints?
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06:48<argoneus>good morning train friends
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06:50<andythenorth>Pikka bob
06:51<@peter1138>lo bob
06:52<Samu>what do you guys think of locks as waypoints instead?
06:54<Wolf01>Only with a "wait to raise/lower" order
06:56<Samu>how would that work?
06:59<argoneus>Wolf01: I installed win10 tomorrow
06:59<argoneus>so far it feels pretty much the same as win7
06:59<argoneus>except more modern and lighter
06:59<argoneus>by tomorrow I mean yesterday
07:04<Wolf01>Nice, are you living in the backward-time? :D
07:04<andythenorth>maybe it got older and heavier
07:04<andythenorth>but just backwards
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07:25<andythenorth>Pikka: how is cat?
07:25<Pikka>pretty good
07:26<Pikka>et tu brute?
07:26<Samu>darn asserts
07:27<andythenorth>not bad
07:27<Samu>well, the assert is right, but damn it... they're so unexpected
07:28<andythenorth>been Hogging
07:29<Pikka>that's a lot of tramz
07:29<andythenorth>one for each row in the buy menu
07:30<andythenorth>two even
07:31<andythenorth>Pikka any job? o_O
07:31<andythenorth>or art?
07:31<Pikka>no job, some art, some uni
07:33<Pikka>such fun
07:41<Flygon>Those Tanker Trams
07:41<Flygon>I'd be veeeeeeerry worried about arcing
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08:06<andythenorth>Flygon: new disaster
08:06<andythenorth>exploding tramz
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>don't small ufos also land on trams?
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i ever tried disasters since trams were introduced
08:12<Pikka>I don't see why they wouldn't
08:22<Samu>i just commented out a comment, if that makes any sense
08:41<andythenorth>Pikka: how big should buses be? And pax tramz?
08:43<Pikka>how big? capacity or pixels?
08:44<andythenorth>buses are obviously 30-40 pax :P
08:44<andythenorth>but then…a UK set needs double-decker ones
08:44<andythenorth>and tramz must be bigger again
08:44*andythenorth should delete them all, BAD FEATURES
08:45<Pikka>my double deckers were 40-65
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>50% bigger sounds right
08:45<andythenorth>I think 65 is the natural size
08:45<andythenorth>currently they are 50-90, which is too big
08:46<Pikka>90 is the capacity of my largest (articulated) tram
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>90 sounds too small for a tram
08:47<andythenorth>how long in vehicle length?
08:48<Pikka>never got as far as drawing it
08:48<Pikka>but 3 articulated pieces, modern light rail stylez
08:48<Pikka>why is 90 too small? That's more than two rail coaches
08:50<andythenorth>it is
08:50<dihedral>hej hej
08:50<andythenorth>mine are too big
08:51<dihedral>that's what everybody says
08:51<andythenorth>not everybody
08:51<andythenorth>just most people
08:51<dihedral>true - i do know a girl that does not say that
08:52*andythenorth has no idea what you’re talking about
08:52<andythenorth>Road Hog has tramz with 80-240 pax
08:52<andythenorth>kind of odd
08:53<@peter1138>od it
08:53<andythenorth>one tram for whole map?
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11:31<Samu>the comments of ChangeTileOwner_Water are so confusing
11:32<Samu>i removed everything about lockmiddle there
11:32<Samu>they are coded differently now
11:34<Samu>* Check if the new owner after removing depot isn't OWNER_WATER. */
11:34<Samu>it never is...
11:35<Samu> /* Set owner of canals and locks ... and also canal under dock there was before.
11:36<Samu> /* Set owner of canal, and also canal parts under (now removed) lock, dock and ship depot to OWNER_NONE. */
11:36<Samu>buoys have been dealt somewhere else
11:37<Samu>oilrig station and industry too
11:37<Samu>industries don't bankrupt anyway
11:37<Samu>but the canal under them
11:37<Samu>must change ownership, it's been dealt with
11:38<Samu>now i need a saveload conversion for locks.... must think
11:53<Samu>lock conversion is gonna be hell :(
11:54<Samu>the owner of the lock is set at the middle tile... how do i walk to that tile?
11:54<Samu>to get the owner
11:59<@Alberth>something with TileDxDy iirc
12:00<@Alberth>TileDiffXY actually
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12:04<Samu>gonna copy paste code
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12:29<Samu> - is this conversion good?
12:29<Samu>i copied that table from
12:34<Samu>i need old saves with locks, for verification :p
12:37<Samu>20 water tiles became 22 water tiles
12:37<Samu>ah ya right, middle now counts as +1 to water infrastructure
12:37<Samu>and i got 2 locks
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13:08<Samu>gah i forget what's a river, what's a canal
13:09<Samu>00 - sea
13:09<Samu>01 - canal
13:09<Samu>10 - river
13:10<Samu>11 - invalid
13:13<Samu>0 00 00000 - no canal on river / sea / company #1
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13:15<Samu>k think i got a problem, must fix
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14:18<frosch123>hoi cat
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14:59<Samu>\darn it
14:59<Samu>the bug was in the company_sl.cpp
14:59<Samu>i still don't get breaks and FALL THROUGH stuff
15:00<Samu>afterload.cpp is fine after all
15:13*andythenorth favours smaller trams
15:13<andythenorth>want more density?
15:13<andythenorth>user more trams?
15:13<andythenorth>use *
15:13<andythenorth>smaller = ~100 pax instead of ~200 pax
15:15<Samu>locks are done
15:15<Samu>i got everything done, except objects
15:16<Samu>i may need help dealing with object tiletype
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15:27<Samu>hmm the price of clearing objects is buggy... let me check 1.6.1
15:28<Samu>also happens in 1.6.1
15:29<Samu>and this is why i hate objects
15:29<Samu>bug is
15:29<Samu>place a rock on a river
15:29<Samu>costs £256
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15:30<Samu>now remove the rocks
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15:30<Samu>oops, let me start over, got the prices wrong
15:30<Samu>place a rock on a river, costs £640
15:31<Samu>remove the rock, costs £256
15:31<Samu>build a canal on a river, costs £5000
15:31<drac_boy>just wondering if any german historians in here atm heh .. did trains even end up with both drg and bavaria rolling stock or it was pretty much a 'clean' switchover era?
15:31<Samu>now, another different way to do the same:
15:32<andythenorth>drac_boy: when did this happen?
15:32<Samu>place a rock on a river, costs £640
15:32<Samu>build a canal on the rock, costs £15,256
15:33<Samu>it should have cost £5,256
15:33<drac_boy>well bavaria seem to have stopped their ordering in 1924ish (and anything after that was apparently considered bavaria design under drg nameplate instead)
15:34<drac_boy>but I haven't apparently found any photo or tidbit about for example having bavaria and drg coaches together on one train
15:40<drac_boy>anyway at least I'm not a rivet counter :P
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15:44<drac_boy>ughh sorry need to afk for a while
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15:47<Samu> if (spec->grf_prop.grffile != NULL) { td->grf = GetGRFConfig(spec->grf_prop.grffile->grfid)->GetName();
15:47<Samu>angry code
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16:03<andythenorth>ach road vehicle tunnelling
16:03<andythenorth>what causes 12/8 trams to tunnel in the stops? 10/8 and 14/8 don’t seem to do afaict
16:05<andythenorth>the 3rd vehicle arriving at the stop can’t load
16:05<andythenorth>then after a minute or so it tunnels, and occupies the same location as the 1st vehicle at the front of the stop
16:05<andythenorth>and starts loading
16:06<andythenorth>it’s weird, looks odd, and is hard to explain/understand
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16:22<supermop_>andythenorth: it seems to happen only after waiting a long time, think it has to do with the quantum queing setting
16:22<supermop_>i notice it with trucks
16:23<supermop_>if i am starting a lot of RVs on time table, i try not to let them to the first stop more than 30 or so days before their start time because that seems to happen if several are waiting in a line, then the order gets all messed up
16:26<andythenorth>it’s caused by quantum effects yes
16:27<andythenorth>I can just disable it
16:27<andythenorth>but that doesn’t help determine effective vehicle lengths :)
16:27<andythenorth>12/8 triggers the problem, for certain configurations of road stop
16:27<andythenorth>16/8 does not
16:28<andythenorth>the confusing aspect - if more than one RV can occupy a loading spot, why bother tunneling?
16:29<andythenorth>10/8 vehicles are also doing it
16:29<andythenorth>it increases the effective capacity of the road stop arbitrarily
16:30<andythenorth>if I could predict this behaviour, I could build much smaller road stops
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16:31<andythenorth>ha 16/8 vehicles do it, it’s just harder to see
16:31<andythenorth>so I have 20 vehicles packed into 6 roadstops
16:32<andythenorth>all loading
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the tunneling is not a problem, the "benefit" of longer vehicles is that the following vehicle will see an occupied platform and pick another platform to load, if applicable
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>for shorter vehicles, the second vehicle arrives at the splitting point before the first vehicle reserves the platform
16:39<andythenorth>yes I understand that much :) that is easy to show in testing
16:39<andythenorth>the primary objection of the tunneling is that it makes no sense
16:40<andythenorth>of / to /s
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>it makes no sense, yes, but it's sporadically needed to un-block things
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's not a terribly good feature
16:40<andythenorth>it’s RVs
16:40<andythenorth>most of RVs are not terribly good :)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>but i wouldn't worry about it
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16:44<andythenorth>it has an irritating tendency to leave gaps at 12/8
16:44<andythenorth>but otherwise yeah
16:44<andythenorth>it is what it is
16:45<andythenorth>I am favouring relatively short mail trams
16:46<andythenorth>with low capacity
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>tunneling should only happen when you have too long (full) loading times
16:48<andythenorth>happy to be persuaded to ignore this :)
16:59<andythenorth>10/8 mail trams, and same-generation 16/8 box trams (refittable to mail at higher capacity)
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause>seems fine
17:06<Samu>i don't get object stuff
17:07<Samu>too much NewGRF in the way
17:08<andythenorth>mail tram :P
17:09<andythenorth>[the mail is in the cart at the back]
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17:38<Samu>who can help me?
17:38<Samu>bool water = IsWaterTile(tile);
17:38<Samu>well, the type is an object
17:38<Samu>but i see water
17:39<Samu>dunno how to explain
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17:40<Samu>I'm using OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 and i placed 'Rocky Land' on a river tile
17:41<Samu>it doesn't consider it as water anymore, but an object
17:41<Samu>this is going to affect the prices when doing clears
17:41<Samu>it's bugged
17:42<Samu>when building a canal over it, it goes through bool water = IsWaterTile(tile) and returns false
17:42<Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags | DC_FORCE_CLEAR_TILE, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); if (ret.Failed()) return ret;
17:43<Samu>it clears the 'Rocky Land' and gets back the river
17:43<Samu>but next, if (!water) cost.AddCost(ret);
17:43<Samu>it's adding the price of a FORCE CLEAR TILE
17:47<Samu>+ cost {m_value=10000 } const OverflowSafeInt<__int64,9223372036854775807,-9223372036854775808> &
17:47<Samu>it's adding the price for clearing the river t.t
17:47<Samu>it should not do it
17:48<Samu>it should add the cost of clearing the object, not the river
17:49<Samu>oh, it does both
17:49<Samu>adds £256 to £10000
17:56<Samu>we're at £10256
17:57<Samu>and finally add the cost of a canal, which is £5000
17:57<Samu>£15256 total that I see
17:59<Samu>I am uncertain where the problem actually manifests
17:59<Samu>CmdBuildCanal at water_cmp.cpp or
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18:01<Samu>CmdLandscapeClear at landscape.cpp
18:03<Samu>anyone here?
18:03<Samu>I don't know what to do
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18:35<Samu>1.6.1 crash
18:35<Samu>kinda unexpected
18:36<Samu>i dont really know the behaviour of objects
18:37<Samu>if a company places objects on the map, but then bankrupts , what happens to the objects?
18:37<Samu>they poof?
18:37<Samu>they stay?
18:37<Samu>what about company merging?
18:37<Samu>they poof?
18:38<Samu>they belong to new company?
18:38<Samu>openttd code isn't too clear
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19:38<Samu>who's alive?
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---Logclosed Sat Sep 17 00:00:20 2016