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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-19

---Logopened Mon Sep 19 00:00:23 2016
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06:10<argoneus>good morning train friends
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06:54<Samu>I discovered the reason why terraforming with flags | DC_NO_WATER was not failing sometimes
06:55<Samu>case WATER_TILE_COAST
06:55<Samu>coast tiles was not prepared to handle the | DC_NO_WATER
06:55<Samu>they would always clear
06:56<Samu>if (IsSlopeWithOneCornerRaised(slope) && flags & DC_NO_WATER) return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_CAN_T_BUILD_ON_WATER);
06:56<Samu>there's no easy way to detect water on coastal slopes
06:56<Samu>code isn't too flexible
07:01<Samu>now i can't place rail on coast
07:01<Samu>this is complex
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07:36<Wolf01>Then rewrite the code
07:37<Samu>oops caps
07:38<Samu>i got a bigger problem apparently, the special case of rails on coastal track
07:44<Samu>it's funny that i got to work on rail part of the code about water
07:46<Samu>here's the problem:
07:47<Samu>there's water
07:47<Samu>terraform has the flags | DC_NO_WATER
07:48<Samu>i should be getting an error, but I got an estimated cost, which means, it's gonna remove the water
07:48<Samu>problem is on the rail tiles
07:48<Samu>now where exactly :(
07:48<Samu>rail code is ubberly big, complex
07:50<Samu> vs
07:50<Samu>water was removed from the rail tiles
07:50<Samu>that shouldn't happen :(
08:02<Samu>maybe this is simpler than i thought, let me see
08:04<Samu>i did it
08:20<Samu>terraforming object tiles is really messed up
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09:28<Samu>sorry i don't understand newgrf crap, i need help, someone
09:30<Samu>problem I want to solve is about terraforming with 'flags | DC_NO_WATER
09:30<Samu>'flags | DC_NO_WATER
09:31<Samu>when I do: ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, z ? slope : ComplementSlope(slope), z ? 0 : 1, flags | DC_NO_WATER, CMD_TERRAFORM_LAND);
09:32<Samu>it gets to the object terraform part of the code, and i just have no idea what happens there
09:34<Samu>who's a NewGRF expert?
09:41<Samu>supermop: can you help
09:42<supermop>almost certainly not
09:42<supermop>i dont know anything about code
09:42<Samu>are you familiar with OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2?
09:42<Samu>oh :(
09:42<supermop>that is trees right?
09:42<supermop>i just got into work
09:43<Samu>it's wind turbines, ground without squares
09:43<Samu>placing lighthouses
09:43<Samu>as objcts
09:45<Samu>planetmaker: do you own OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2?
09:48<supermop>if it is gpl maybe no one owns it
09:50<Samu>this is difficult for me
09:51<Samu>there is no easy way to check for a coastal tile with 1 corner raised that is an object
09:51<Samu>if it is an object, it's no longer a coast
09:51<Samu>but i see a coast
09:53<Samu>it's not a coast, but i see a coast
09:54<Samu>I can't use IsCoastTile(tile)
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10:15<Samu>just found another bug
10:15<Samu>too bad i have no one to talk to
10:16<Samu>newgrf objects are bugged, or i just don't get their purpose
10:17<Samu>they cause problems
10:18<Samu>placing rocky land on a flat water tile costs £640
10:19<Samu>placing rocky land on a 2-corner-raised coast tile costs £680
10:19<Samu>placing rocky land on a 1-corner-raised coast tile costs..... *gasp*....
10:23<Samu>I don't know who's at fault
10:23<Samu>the newgrf itself, or openttd code
10:24<Samu>here's another bug
10:25<Samu>place rocky land on a 1-corner-raised coast tile, with SLOPE_N
10:25<Samu>build a rail track on either X or Y axis - track is built
10:26<Samu>now, try placing a rail track on either X or Y axis on a 1-corner-raised coast tile, with SLOPE_N - cannot build here
10:30<@peter1138>that's the cost of clearing water
10:30<@peter1138>not a bug
10:34<Samu> vs
10:34<Samu>if i place rocks, i can build track, if i don't, i can't build track
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10:36<Flygon>In that first screen shot
10:36<Flygon>Them railway tracks look like an Age of Empires building
10:36<Flygon>The first one
10:36<Flygon>Sorry for the random observatio!
10:37<Flygon>Good night!
10:39<Samu>hello Alberth
10:42<Samu>should be the cost of clearing the rocks
10:46<Wolf01>o/ Alberth
10:47<Samu>costs for placing rocky lands on those tiles
10:48<Samu>£10,640 is not okay...
10:49<Samu>should have been £680
10:50<Samu>or perhaps half of £40
10:50<Samu>not really sure what makes more sense there, but certainly not £10k
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12:27<Samu>i'm getting WATER_CLASS_INVALID
12:27<Samu>seems like the bug is happening somewhere during object placement
12:28<Samu>it did not maintain the waterclass of the tile
12:28<Samu>should have been WATER_CLASS_SEA
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12:30<Samu> TILE_AREA_LOOP(t, ta) { if (HasTileWaterGround(t)) {
12:31<Samu>HasTileWaterGround returns false for coast
12:34<Samu>HasTileWaterGround is the wrong question
12:34<Samu>what can i do?
12:35<Samu>a big chunk of object code depends on it
12:35<Samu>some coasts are not coast, such as tree tiles
12:36<Samu>tree tiles on coasts makes coasts no longer coasts, and yet they're coasts
12:36<Samu>i'm limited
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12:38<Samu>can't use IsCoast because of trees, can't use HasTileWaterGround because of coasts
12:38<Samu>any ideas?
12:40<Samu>i'm relunctant to make changes to HasTileWaterGround, a whole portion of OpenTTD code depends on it the way it works right now
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12:52<Samu>testing with IsTileOnWater, brb
12:52<Samu>oh crap
12:53<Samu>HasTileWaterClass && IsTileOnWater
13:00<Samu>IsWaterTile can't be used for coasts with 1 corner raised
13:00<Samu>returns false
13:00<Samu>in certain cases you want coasts to be water tiles
13:00<Samu>in some others, you don't
13:05<Samu>i dunno what to do
13:07<Samu>i don't know what ppl expect from a IsWaterTIle
13:07<Samu>or from a HasTileWaterGround
13:10<Samu>dunno what to call this... some part of openttd assumes a result and work from there, like rail code, then some other part of the code assumes the other result, there's a coding divergence, do you get what I mean?
13:10<Samu>town code for example
13:10<Samu>does the opposite of rail code, when using this same function
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13:11<Samu>the object code tries to be more thorough, and yet fails at it
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13:12<Samu>anyone here?
13:12<Samu>Alberth: ?
13:12<Samu>I'm alone on this?
13:17<@Alberth>euhm, I think you are mostly, I don't know what the various water-class values mean either. Did you check the documentation strings of the values? They might contain valuable clues what they mean.
13:17<@Alberth>Of course, there is always the option to add another value, assuming there are enough bits for it
13:18<@Alberth>but then you need to check all uses of the water-class, and add your new value to it
13:26<Samu>thinking of a IsWaterHalfTile
13:26<Samu>IsWaterFullTile vs IsWaterHalfTile
13:27<Samu>half-full, half-empty situation
13:31<Samu>all coast tiles are tiles of tile type MP_WATER
13:31<Samu>well not really all
13:32<Samu>gah, this is hard to explain
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13:50<Samu>trees don't have a water class
13:50<Samu>and yet they are placed on tiles with water class
13:51<Samu>kinda like the rail
13:51<Samu>rail doesn't have a water class either, and yet they can be placed on tiles with water class
13:52<Samu>this means I can't use HasTileWaterClass either
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14:04<supermop>yo andy
14:09<Samu>IsWateredTile seems to be the function i'm looking for, but it requires a direction, grrr
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14:23<andythenorth>is tram?
14:37<Samu>I need a ANY_DIRECTION :(
14:37<Samu>i'm using INVALID_DIR
14:38<Samu>might be misleading
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14:41<Samu> if (IsWateredTile(t)) { if (!IsWaterTile(t)) {
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15:12<Samu>void tiles are crashing me
15:12<Samu>my fault
15:13<Samu>can't really consider void tiles as watered in this case
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15:22<Samu>I "nearly" fixed a bug
15:23<Samu>i made the cost £640
15:24<Samu>£640 is yet not the right price though
15:24<Samu>should be £680 or £660, need to investigate more
15:25<Samu>I'm more inclined towards £680, what do you say?
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16:07<Samu>half-empty, half-full problem again :(
16:08<Samu>when building a OpenGFX+ Landscape 1.1.2 lighthouse (land-only object)
16:08<Samu>i can place it on all coastal tiles, including those with water
16:09<Samu>it gets a foundation under the tile
16:09<Samu>with the fix I'm currently experimenting with
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16:10<Samu>i can't place it on a coast tile with 1 corner raised
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16:38<Wolf01>Monologue today?
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17:06<goodger>Wolf01: well, there's a Y in the day
17:07<Wolf01>Oh, hi good-badger :)
17:09<Samu>it's only a monologue because nobody answers
17:10<Wolf01>We don't want to interrupt your teddy-bear-programming ;)
17:16<goodger>yeah, that is still not the origin of my surname
17:16<Samu>now that I give the correct water class for the rocky land, the graphics get corrupted :(
17:48<Samu>i "fixed" the problem... had to make it "broken"
17:50<Samu>but now i don't know how the other newgrf objects are drawed
17:51<Samu>i maybe have broken for the others :(
17:52<Samu>this line, 437
17:52<Samu>i changed it to: if ((image == SPR_FLAT_WATER_TILE || spec->flags & OBJECT_FLAG_DRAW_WATER) && IsTileOnWater(ti->tile) && !IsSlopeWithOneCornerRaised(GetTileSlope(ti->tile))) {
17:53<Samu>this alone will show broken
17:53<Samu>have to complement it with another line change
17:56<Samu>line 120
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17:56<Samu>IsWaterTile returns false for coasts with 1 corner
17:56<Samu>but it should have returned true
17:57<Samu>I changed to WaterClass wc = (IsWateredTile(t) ? GetWaterClass(t) : WATER_CLASS_INVALID);
17:57<Samu>but IsWateredTile in trunk needs a direction
17:58<Samu>I changed IsWateredTile to accept no direction at all, an INVALID_DIRECTION
17:58<Samu>oops INVALID_DIR
17:59<Samu>when no direction is provided, it will make INVALID_DIR behave like any direction
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19:06<Eddi|zuHause>none of my days contain a 'y'
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19:34<Eddi|zuHause>there are some with a t, yes
19:35<goodger>wait, do they not all end in -tag except Mittwoch?
19:35<goodger>dutch has ruined me for other languages
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>depends on how you say "Sonnabend"
19:36<goodger>ah, GDR
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>"sun-eve" is the evening before "sun-day", same as "christmas-eve" is the evening before "christmas-day"
19:37<goodger>yes, I know
19:37<goodger>though I was not alerted to the possibility of calling it that, and learned 'Samstag' at school
19:37<Eddi|zuHause>there are more such combination, but they are less known nowadays
19:38<Eddi|zuHause>the way i heard it, "Sonnabend" was considered the "standard form" before the east-west split, and "samstag" was the southern regional exception, and in the west it was driven back while it survived in the east
19:40<Eddi|zuHause>i think you could consider "all-hallows-eve" and "all-saints-day" another such combination
19:42<goodger>I would have thought some variation on 'sabbat' would be the 'original' dominant form
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19:50<Eddi|zuHause>not sure why that would be
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>but etymology is a weird field
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>there are all sorts of surprising relations between on the surface completely different words from various languages
19:53<Eddi|zuHause>like, the english word "robot" comes from russian "robota" (=work) which is derived from old germanic "urbo" (slave) which also is the ancestor of the german word "arbeit" (=work)
19:53<goodger>well, yes
19:54<goodger>but 'sabbat' is the root for the name of saturday in most european languages
19:54<goodger>for obvious reasons
19:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i could see that for "samstag" easier than for "sonnabend"
19:57<Eddi|zuHause> says there's a relation
19:57<Eddi|zuHause> doesn't say anything like that
19:57<goodger>oh, samstag does mean sabbat
19:57<goodger>via greek, fun
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>there's also this fun word
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20:02<Eddi|zuHause>goodger: the original Samstag/Sonnabend split might have come from the areas influenced by roman culture (south and west) vs. the areas influenced by christian missionaries (north and east)
20:02<goodger>makes sense
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>but i have no data to support this claim
20:06<goodger>I accidentally almost drove in to germany the other week
20:06<goodger>(irrelevant but mildly interesting factoid)
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>i can only imagine what a disaster that would have been, crossing an open border...
20:08<goodger>yes, I would have had to turn around and been late for my chair appointment :O
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>well, you could have been a goodger(man)
20:11<goodger>a goodger man?
20:11<goodger>I already am one of those
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 20 00:00:24 2016