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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-20

---Logopened Tue Sep 20 00:00:24 2016
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04:32<Wolf01>Moin
04:34<Wolf01>https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25008 This remembers me about the OTTD's mega-hyper-16-mainlines junctions
04:37<V453000>yep
04:37<V453000>it's fairly similar yet very different :P
04:37<Wolf01>I think that when in a game where you can make splits and joins of anything, the final goal is always to make a well balanced full throughput "junction", people would make that even in "pipe dream" if there isn't the time limit XD
04:37<Alkel_U3>32-belt balancer o_o
04:39<Wolf01>I once tried to make a bidirectional layout for ores... then I just moved the first splitter near the furnaces XD
04:42<Alkel_U3>I've only made 8-lane balancer once when I outsourced furnaces way outside my main factory and made it really big, with 8-car trains. It behaved ok-ish, mostly.
04:43<Alkel_U3>now that got me wondering, could this perhaps be enhanced with circuit network?
04:43<Wolf01>You can disable belts now
04:44<V453000>I always just use more throughput rather than perfect balancing
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04:45<Wolf01>I don't even try, I just make it work :P
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06:40<argoneus>good morning train friends
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07:35<goodger>o/
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07:51<Samu>found another object bug t.t
07:52<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/yLEft rocky land is not being flooded
07:53<Samu>with the exception of the half-land, half-water tile
08:02<Samu>where in the code are objects flooded?
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08:31<kamcio96>Hello, can you explain me how instal dedicated server on linux? I have debian 8 in soyoustart
08:31<kamcio96>"Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD."
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, install a graphics set...
09:43<@peter1138>oh, yello have a new album
09:43<@peter1138>didn't realise they were still going
09:43<andythenorth>the race
09:43<@peter1138>quite
09:44<Wolf01>o/
09:45<@peter1138>https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/yellofier/id622611915?mt=8
09:45<@peter1138>oh yeah
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09:46<andythenorth>any good? o_O
09:46<@peter1138>i don't have an apple phone
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09:46<@peter1138>oh there's an android one
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09:46<@peter1138>hmm, £2.84 :(
09:46<andythenorth>£2.84 worth of entertainment? o_O
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10:09<Samu>how do I flood an object without destroying the object
10:10<Samu>change the landy part of the object into water
10:11<Samu>does the object specs have a special flag for this?
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10:19<@planetmaker>Samu: The object specs have a flag which allows objects being placed on water
10:20<@planetmaker>but I'm not sure how it behaves when the object is placed on land which is being flooded. You can checkout with opengfx+landscape and the wind powerplants
10:21<supermop>i should make another attempt at ogfx+ stations
10:22<Samu>planetmaker: that's what i tried, it doesn't flood
10:23<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/yLEft
10:23<andythenorth>https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>'"Is that called arrayReverse?" "s/camel/_/" "Cool thanks."' i see nothing wrong with that conversation...
10:40<andythenorth>me neither
10:40<andythenorth>we are broken
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>well, sure. but even if not, every profession group has their own jargon... try to listen to two construction workers talking, and you find equally obscure pieces of conversation
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>or two investment bankers
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12:00<@Alberth>o/
12:08<Wolf01>o/
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12:16<Samu>i found yet another bug
12:17<Samu>placing a wind turbine
12:17<Samu>on a steep slope
12:18<Samu>steep coastal slope tile
12:18<Samu>gets graphical glitches
12:18<Samu>also happens to rocky land
12:20<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/LRExm
12:24<Samu>there's more slope combinations resulting in glitchy graphics
12:24<Samu>:(
12:26<Samu>don't know how you call this slope combo
12:27<Samu>"2 corners raised at opposite directions"-slope
12:29<Samu>[img]http://i.imgur.com/gt2SitJ.png[/img]
12:30<@Alberth>wow :)
12:32<Samu>i'm gonna give up trying to fix stuff for object tile types
12:33<Samu>when i think i fixed something, i uncover something else
12:34<Samu>besides, i don't really play with newgrfs
12:34<Samu>never liked the feature
12:39<Samu>i really think trees should have water class
12:40<Samu>or just forbid placing trees on every coastal tile
12:40<Samu>else it makes this much difficult to fix
12:41<Samu>there are some "supposedly" coastal tiles that don't turn into coastal tiles, even without trees on them
12:42<Samu>too many exceptions to the rule which makes drawing tiles much more difficult
12:48<Samu>where is that part of the code that turns slopes configurations into coastal tiles? you forgot 2 slope combinations
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12:49<Samu>the "2 corners raised at opposite corners"-slope was forgotten, doesnt get turned into a coast
12:50<Samu>i wonder if it was by intention
12:52<@Alberth>not enough water to make a coast :)
12:57<@Alberth>newgrf spec should know the answer
13:03<Samu> Slope slope_here = GetFoundationSlope(tile) & ~SLOPE_HALFTILE_MASK & ~SLOPE_STEEP;
13:03<Samu>i don't know what those ~ thing do
13:04<@Alberth>swap all bits
13:04<@Alberth>ie 1->0 and 0->1
13:05<Samu>ah, ty
13:05<Samu>think i found it static const uint8 _flood_from_dirs[]
13:05<Samu> * Describes from which directions a specific slope can be flooded (if the tile is floodable at all).
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13:06<Samu> 0, // SLOPE_EW
13:06<Samu>you don't want it to be flooded
13:06<Samu>i wonder why
13:07<Samu>it's not really a flood, it's a dryup
13:08<@Alberth>all sides are raised
13:08<@Alberth>just 2 cornerpoints are not
13:13<Samu>i triggered a crash, :)
13:13<Samu>ok let's see
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13:14<Samu> assert((tileh != SLOPE_EW) && (tileh != SLOPE_NS)); // No suitable sprites for current flooding behaviour
13:14<Samu>:(
13:14<andythenorth>assert cat
13:15<Samu>DrawShoreTile
13:15<Samu>this function crashed
13:15<Samu>or asserted or whatever
13:15<Samu>let's remove the assert, and see what happens
13:18<Samu>i see glitchy graphics
13:19<@Alberth>cat assertions?
13:20<andythenorth>think so
13:20<@Alberth>the comment gives the answer to your question :)
13:20<Samu>Slope_EW is not glitchy
13:20<@Alberth>^ Samu
13:20<Samu>SLOPE_NS is
13:20<Samu>allow one then
13:21<@Alberth>I checked the dutch Firs translation, was already up-to-date :)
13:22<Samu>i bet it's because of this that objects get glitchy too
13:22<Samu>but maybe im wrong
13:23<Samu>let me place a wind turbine on the glitchy
13:23<Samu>NS slope
13:26<Samu>bah, nope
13:27<Samu>made no difference
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13:31<andythenorth>is quak
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13:33<@Alberth>quak cat
13:34<Wolf01>^
13:38<frosch123>moi
13:41<andythenorth>quak tram
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13:51<Samu>who's a professional drawer?
13:52<Samu>in fact, i don't think it needs anyone to draw anything
13:53<Wolf01>http://alleghenyoffice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/filing-cabinet-drawer-2l.jpg does this look professional enough=
13:53<Wolf01>?
13:54<Samu>uh... :)
13:55<Samu>how do i re-use sprites
13:55<Samu>they already exist
13:55<Samu>just not on the right place
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14:40<Samu>hey Alberth , when using the sprite aligner
14:41<Samu>I notice the sprite already exists
14:41<Samu>it's only misaligned
14:41<@Alberth>ok
14:41<Samu>the Y offset needs to be adjusted
14:41<Samu>-31
14:41<Samu>or -32
14:42<Samu>-32 or -33, zoom seems to make no difference
14:43<Samu>\ogfxe_extra
14:43<Samu>sprite 5,936
14:44<@Alberth>note how much you have to shift it, and report it to the project owning the sprite
14:45<@Alberth>5,936 is a number given by openttd, project uses a different number
14:46<Samu>isn't the project OpenTTD?
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14:54<frosch123>Wolf01: i have something very similar at work
14:54<frosch123>but it is always empty since everything turned digital
14:54<frosch123>like, there are huge build-in cupboards in all offices, mostly empty :p
14:54<Wolf01>I had it too, here we aren't able to go fully digital
14:56<frosch123>last time i moved office, we emptied the cupboards
14:56<frosch123>it had some chronological ordering, but stopped at 2004 or so
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15:03<@Alberth>Samu: only if you are talking about sprites in the original baseset, and perhaps a few new sprites that were added later
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15:08<Samu>i'm not using any newgrf, so i suppose it's the original baseset
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15:16<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/hGGiZ
15:16<Samu>it's a set of 2 images
15:16<Samu>the one at the top is with the Y offset
15:23<@Alberth>I would doubt nobody would have seen that in the past 10 years or so
15:29<@Alberth>I don't have your wavey coast lines in the original baseset, sure you don't have newgrfs?
15:31<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/straight_coast.png
15:31<@Alberth>or opengfx, for that matter?
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15:59<Samu>i give up
16:00<Samu>base graphic set: OpenGFX
16:06<Samu>just tested original_windows
16:06<Samu>they exist, they're even correctly aligned
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16:08<Samu>they look good in original
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16:12<Samu>OpenGFX doesn't mimic the origial_windows though
16:16<Samu>http://imgur.com/a/CA6rF
16:16<Samu>looks good!
16:20<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=36&t=40162 i can't go to this link
16:21<Samu>these links are dead in the readme of opengfx
16:22<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=52396&start=0
16:22<Samu>nevermind, not this link
16:23<Samu>OpenGFX 0.5.2 readme has invalid links to the forum
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16:27<Samu>oh wow, the topic got 171 pages
16:36<Samu>I'm utterly confused
16:36<Samu>they exist in original_windows, they don't exist in OpenGFX?
16:36<Samu>and is that why you disable it in OpenTTD code?
16:38<Samu>https://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/d1ee3e5330e5/media/extra_grf/shore.png
16:39<Samu>12, 13, 25, 26, 38, 39, 51, 52
16:40<Samu>they exist!
16:41<Samu>I don't understand why they're disabled in-game
16:42<Samu>anyone here?
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17:21<Wolf01>'night
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17:35<FLHerne_>Samu: Oh, those tiles
17:36<FLHerne_>They're disabled because they don't fit the actual gameplay effects, i.e. water doesn't flow through that sort of gap
17:36<FLHerne_>It would be nice if it did, but then people's maps would get flooded
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17:40<Samu>oh, but they could still be coastal tiles
17:41<FLHerne>There's a thread about it somewhere, but I can't find it either
17:43<Samu>i think i understand the problem, draw them without the gap, but allow them to still be coastal tiles?
17:45<FLHerne>Sorry, I don't understand
17:46<Samu>code-wise they're not coastal tiles either
17:47<Samu>darn, i forgot why I wanted them to be coastal tiles, but it was something related to a problem with placing newgrf objects and coast tiles
17:47<FLHerne>They don't graphically look like coast tiles because they aren't functionally
17:48<Samu>i ended up looking at the dry up code and something didn't make sense
17:49<FLHerne>Water doesn't flow through them, which matches the straight equivalent
17:49<Samu>ah, i think i remember, flooding object tiles that have water on the ground
17:49<Samu>but without actually destroying the object, just drawing water around it
17:50<FLHerne>http://www.flherne.uk/files/NotCoast.png
17:51<Samu>yes, imagine an object on that NotCoast tile
17:51<Samu>water doesn't go there
17:51<FLHerne>If those narrow-coast graphics were actually used, they'd suggest the middle hole ought to be flooded
17:51<FLHerne>Which I think would be an improvement, except it would break existing maps
17:52<FLHerne>Also, behaviour of the directly-opposing straight coasts would have to match
17:53<FLHerne>What are you actually trying to achieve here?
17:53<Samu>there's a bug with displaying object tiles
17:53<Samu>on certain "coastal" tiles
17:54<Samu>NS, EW, and all steep tiles which are coast
17:54<FLHerne>In trunk, or only with whatever patch you've been writing?
17:55<Samu>in 1.6.1
17:55<FLHerne>What's the bug?
17:55<Samu>sec, let me find the topic, i got some pictures there
17:56<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1176875#p1176875
17:58<Samu>wind turbine is one of those objects that is allowed to be placed on water and on ground, it doesn't create a flat formation on the tile
18:00<FLHerne>Both of those objects are from OpenGFX+ Landscape
18:00<FLHerne>The turbine has all sorts of weird NML to pick a ground tile, which is apparently buggy
18:01<FLHerne>Rocks can be built on water, but don't seem to detect when their tile is flooded
18:01<FLHerne>Actually, that might be an OTTD limitation
18:02<FLHerne>Not sure you _can_ detect 'this tile ought to be flooded now'
18:02<FLHerne>So, just destroy it, wait until the tile's flooded, rebuild the rocks prettily
18:04<FLHerne>I don't see how the coast-ness, or graphical appearance, of the tiles you're mentioning is at all relevant
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18:05<Samu>it's the newgrf that's buggy?
18:05<FLHerne>Yes
18:05<FLHerne>Well, for the rocks it could be that the NewGRF interface isn't flexible enough
18:06<FLHerne>I can't think how to make those work 'right', but ask someone who knows
18:06<Samu>i was checking the DoFloodTile and DoDryUp
18:07<Samu>MP_OBJECT is totally ignored
18:07<FLHerne>Oh, that's odd https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/entry/src/wind-powerplant.pnml
18:07<FLHerne>Line 96 suggests you shouldn't be able to build it on steep slopes at all
18:08<FLHerne>planetmaker coded that object, ask him
18:09<Samu>what is the tiletype that is checked?
18:09<Samu>that tile is water, and a coast
18:09<Samu>steep coast tile
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18:31<Samu>alright, thx for helping me on that
18:31<Samu>i guess i better not touch on object part of the code that much, from openttd side, at least
18:35<Samu>there's no more room for station types
18:35<Samu>the other day i was thinking locks as waypoints
18:36<Samu>but there's no more bits to store another station type
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---Logclosed Wed Sep 21 00:00:26 2016