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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-21

---Logopened Wed Sep 21 00:00:26 2016
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02:13<@peter1138>heh, rollercoaster tycoon 2 in the humble bundle
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04:08<@peter1138>oops i accidentally it
04:08<Wolf01>You accidentally what?
04:09<@peter1138>a sucker for humble bundles
04:10<Wolf01>I think I'll pass this round, already own some games and I'm not a great fan of the others
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04:21<Wolf01>andythenorth, did you see this?
04:21<andythenorth>yes :) yesterday
04:21<andythenorth>it’s nicely done, I don’t get excited about fire trucks though
04:21<Wolf01>At first I was "wtf does a rc model on this lego blog?"
04:22<andythenorth>classic brick built
04:22<Wolf01>Model team
04:22<Wolf01>I really liked that back in time
04:22<Wolf01>(I only have the highway truck)
04:24<Wolf01>Too bad the Creator ones of today are really static, they could have put at least some steering, they still use technic bricks to build the frame
04:24<andythenorth>we have the blue pickup truck with quad bike on a trailer
04:25<andythenorth>that has suspension and steering
04:25<andythenorth>almost model team
04:25<@peter1138>too big for minifigs (wolf01's link)
04:25<@peter1138>as is that link
04:26<Wolf01>Every thing they make now is not anymore minifig scale, you need to go to City theme to fins something suitable
04:27<andythenorth>bring back classic space
04:27<Wolf01>They even removed Technic figs because "they limited us on the proportions"
04:28<Wolf01>andythenorth, a friend of mine
04:28<andythenorth>very classic
04:36<@peter1138>i never had technic figs
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04:37<Wolf01>I have 4 of them, and they used to fit every single Technic model they made
04:40<andythenorth>only for a few years :)
04:41<andythenorth>in the early 90s
04:41<Wolf01> <- for truck suspensions?
04:42<andythenorth>or GBC modules
04:42*andythenorth has to build a GBC module this morning
04:43<Wolf01>I'm still trying to put a servo inside the Claas Xerion...
04:44<Wolf01>And yesterday I just found that I added a differential on the back and it blocked the steering
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05:13<@peter1138>hmm, too many apps on my phone
05:13<@peter1138>hmm, too many apps on my watch
05:13<@peter1138>app list takes ages to scroll through :(
05:13<Wolf01>Looks like my keyboard :)
05:15<Flygon>GBC module?
05:15<Flygon>We're porting OpenTTD to the Game Boy Color? :D
05:15<Wolf01>Naj, just crazy machines in lego
05:16<Flygon>Wouldn't it be smarter to port to the 32x? 256 colour framebuffer, plenty of on-cart RAM :)
05:16<Flygon>Aw :D
05:16<Wolf01>But remember to use eeprom to save, not battery powered ram
05:17<Wolf01>(I lost all Pokémon saves :((( )
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05:41<Flygon>Wolf01: I should look into if our guy will do 1mbyte ROM, 128kb EEPROM, and 32kb SRAM :U
05:41<Flygon>The SRAM for RAM purposes, not Saving :U
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05:54<Wolf01>I think the top we can get for GBC is like this
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06:38<Wolf01>Today I'll do some nonsense on OTTD, I'll tell what only if the outcome pleases me
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07:35<Samu>CommandCost ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags | DC_AUTO, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
07:35<Samu>ret = DoCommand(tile_cur, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR);
07:35<Samu>what's the difference between flags | DC_AUTO and flags
07:36<Wolf01>That | DC_AUTO adds that flag to flags
07:37<Wolf01>*without changing the flags value
07:38<Samu>in practice, what does one clear that the other does not?
07:39<Samu>it says DC_AUTO = 0x002, ///< don't allow building on structures
07:39<Samu>but the command is about landscape clearing
07:39<Samu>a bit confused
07:40<Wolf01>Maybe you aren't allowed to clear a tile with a structure on it?
07:44<Samu>i can't find any difference, with or without DC_AUTO
07:44<Samu>i must be missing something
07:54<Samu>i found this Company *c = (flags & (DC_AUTO | DC_BANKRUPT)) ? NULL : Company::GetIfValid(_current_company);
07:56<Samu>it made 2 ? NULL : Company::GetIfValid... etc
07:56<Samu>it's about checking clearing limits
08:01<Wolf01>Shit, I'll need to move a lot of features to button to get rid of the CTRL key
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08:31<Wolf01>Pointers fuck me right :|
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08:34<Wolf01>I need to pass a pointer to a function, but the other function returns a value not a pointer
08:34<@peter1138>are dangerous
08:35<Wolf01>Maybe with some & int will work
08:36<Samu> - I'm currently trying to automatically build canals when placing water construction stuff on land
08:37<Wolf01>Ok, got it
08:37<Samu>(with the hopes that someone in charge of openttd reduce canal costs)
09:03<Wolf01>Wow... I made.. something
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09:06<Wolf01>I got "Datatype misalignment" XD
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09:50<supermop_>good morning
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10:14<Wolf01>I managed to get a "fill area" with terraform tools
10:16<Wolf01>But not really a fill area, more like a invert height of the area, so you start with a hole and you get a cliff of the same shape XD
10:16<Wolf01>Which is cool
10:16<Wolf01>Works also the other way
10:17<Wolf01>Btw, it's not my goal
10:17<Wolf01>Also is extremely dangerous on flat maps
10:17<Wolf01>(you will raise the whole map)
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11:14<Wolf01>Is the foundation only drawn by what is over the tile?
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11:30<V453000>don't enter that river Wolf01
11:30<V453000>or get serious help from fro
11:30<@peter1138>foundations don't exist
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11:30<Wolf01>Ok, so no steep slopes without anything on them :P
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>you mean cliffs, not steep slopes
11:42<Wolf01>I wanted to try double height slopes, but that was too much and I tried to use foundations instead
11:43<Wolf01>Just to make V do more work on the baseset :>
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11:52<Samu>what's a foundation and what's a half-tile
11:53<Samu>There is no HasTileFoundation function :(
11:53<Samu>what would be the equivalent?
11:54<Samu>there is a GetFoundationSlope which is always returning me a SLOPE_FLAT...
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11:59<Samu>HasFoundationNE(tile, GetTileSlope(tile), GetTileZ(tile)) what is this gonna get me
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12:36<Samu>GetFoundationSlope does what I want
12:36<Samu>but in an indirect way
12:37<Samu>it treats the slopes as flat
12:37<Samu>but i then ask for a slope with 1 corner or 3 corners raised
12:38<Samu>since it's "flat", I forbid terraforming
12:41<andythenorth>thinking of swapping gen 4 for pax to gen 5 sprites, and making new gen 5 sprites
12:41<andythenorth>it’s all hax :P
12:42<andythenorth>the basic gestalt of each model is super-realism, but the actual sprites are hack jobs of freight trams
12:44<supermop>the gen4 looks ok
12:45<andythenorth>looks a bit ‘metro train’ to me :)
12:45<andythenorth>I like the sprite, in isolation
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: gen 5 doesn't look modern enough, make gen 5 a 5-6-5 tram
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: thinking something like this
13:00<andythenorth>I planned that, but it’s not symmetrical units then
13:01<andythenorth>all other trams have near-symmetrical sprite per unit
13:01<andythenorth>maybe that’s a slavish consistency :P
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13:06<andythenorth>could 2 like this
13:16<V453000>PRAGUE POWER
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13:17<andythenorth>V453000: iz tram
13:18<V453000>iz praga
13:18<V453000>the city of beer, drugs and bitches
13:18<NGC3982>That sounds like Elfen Town outside Växjö.
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's more 4th gen than 5th gen
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14:19<supermop>really a true 5th gen tram should should have all-around stealth treatment and thrust vectoring
14:19<Samu>woah, placing locks is awesomely easier now
14:19<Samu>i like what i'm doing
14:20<Samu>now, moving on to placing aqueducts
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14:27<Wolf01>frosch123, I tried to fiddle with the raise/lower terrain function, but I received a "cease & desist" from foundations
14:31<frosch123>i thought we can meanwhile draw any foundation on any slope
14:31<Wolf01>That was the goal
14:32<Wolf01>Easy foundations and steep slopes/cliffs
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>if you want foundations on clear tiles, you need to do some deeper changes to the map
14:33<Wolf01>Yep, I noticed it too late
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14:35<frosch123>did you have some question? or was that all you wanted to tell? :p
14:35<Wolf01>Just tell, I don't think I could be able to do it alone
14:36<frosch123>ok, because i have no idea what you tried :)
14:37<Wolf01>Oh, I only disabled the loop which raises the tiles around :P
14:38<frosch123>ah, you mean more than 1 height difference between corners :)
14:38<Wolf01>Then I re-enabled it, changed it here and there and got a "fill hole" function
14:40<andythenorth>Samu: what have you changed on locks? o_O
14:41<Wolf01>Seem he made possible to build a lock/dock/depot in canal tiles without enough space all around
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14:44<Samu>auto-terraform on placement
14:45<Samu>i'm not adding foundations
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14:46<Samu>and auto-build canal if placed on land
14:46<Wolf01>Samu, I think you should fix one thing instead of that, this one: when you build a dock on canals you have some checks, but you can remove the canals after you build the dock, it shouldn't be possible or checks should be changed according to that
14:49<Samu>let me check the original checks, i changed quite a lot alrady
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14:51<Wolf01> ha, the projection of this game give me some kind of sickness
14:52<Samu>you mean this
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14:54<Samu> - this line removes the water on the ground, it becomes a flat land
14:54<Samu>a bare land, i mean
14:57<Samu>i am still doing the same, pretty much
14:57<Samu>but handling the data in a whole different way
14:59<Samu>if there is a canal, i check for tile ownership
14:59<Samu>and won't actually remove it, i build on top of it
15:00<Samu>if there is no canal, i actually do the same as that
15:00<Samu>even if it's river, or water, or anything like that
15:01<Samu>maybe I didn't understand the bug, Wolf01 ?
15:01<Wolf01>Wait a sec, I'm doing 4 things at the same time
15:02<Samu>ah, the third tile?
15:02<Samu>i removed that check entirely
15:03<Samu>it just builds, doesn't care what's on the 3rd tile anymore
15:03<Wolf01>I know you did, or you wouldn't be allowed to build that dock
15:06<Samu>okay, i understand now
15:06<Samu>that's on the remove clear water part
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15:08<Wolf01>Also, a fix on the music volume could be nice, I always need to move by 1 pixel the cursor as every time I open the game the music is at 100%
15:08<Samu>static CommandCost ClearTile_Water(TileIndex tile, DoCommandFlag flags) - doesn't care about docking spots
15:08<Samu>maybe it should :p
15:09<Samu>thx for the idea, i might do it
15:09<Wolf01>I think it should check that at least one docking spot is provided
15:10<Wolf01>You might not want a dock with front docking spot but one on the left
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15:30*andythenorth considers writing a tram pixel generator
15:30<andythenorth>how hard can it be? :P
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>didn't you already do that, like, twice?
15:32<andythenorth>once for trucks, once for cargo
15:32<andythenorth>make it random, run it 100 times, pick the best 5 sprites :P
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>genetic programming?
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>run 300 million generations?
15:33<andythenorth>never written genetic programming, always wanted to
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>probably not for you :p
15:33<andythenorth>was going to use it in Flash games ~10 years ago
15:37<andythenorth>there is redneck genetic programming, which is basically components!
15:37<andythenorth>where components are windows, cab, roof, etc
15:38<andythenorth>then there is procedural generation following rulesets, which is similar, but...more
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15:47<Wolf01>Then integrate it in OTTD, let decide player what he wants, profit... more free time to play with lego
15:48<andythenorth>Wolf01: current GBC module fires marbles quite fast
15:49*andythenorth should make a video
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16:02<Wolf01>Any chance to continue work on NRT?
16:02<andythenorth>I need to get my head around the nml patch that’s needed
16:03<andythenorth>got stuck on which feature number to use
16:03<andythenorth>should be 0x12, but looks like there’s some unfinished houses support using that
16:03<andythenorth>so 0x13
16:03<andythenorth>but then the houses stuff is just useless mess, which I should fix?
16:03<Wolf01>Then use 0x13 :D
16:04<Wolf01>Keep the house stuff for later
16:04<Wolf01>Sort of
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16:14<frosch123>andythenorth: just change houses to 0x13
16:15<frosch123>houses do not have an id, they are just the "last item" in the list
16:15<andythenorth>ho thanks
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16:32<Wolf01>The red ball didn't like do get launched :D
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16:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if in doubt, check the NFO specs. if it's there, it must stay there
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>aw, frosch left. that would have been a perfect opportunity to chime in that i'm talking garbage and should stop talking :p
16:43<Samu>I need help with slope math
16:44<Samu>i got SLOPE_NE at the start of the aqueduct, and SLOPE_W at the end of the aqueduct
16:45<Samu>I want to tell the terraform to raise land at SLOPE_S at the end of the aqueduct
16:45<Samu>what math is involved so that the terraform command gets SLOPE_S
16:46<Wolf01>There's a function which does that for you
16:47<Wolf01>I can't remember the exact name, but look at the terraform_cmd
16:48*andythenorth must to bed
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16:58<Samu> Slope t = ComplementSlope(tileh_start) & ~tileh_end_aqueduct;
16:59<Samu>think this is it, lets test
17:02<Wolf01>Complement is like "1101" -> "0010"
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17:17<Samu>there's an ugly tile swap messing me
17:17<Samu>must have it into account
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17:35<Samu>darn steep slopes :(
17:39<Samu>land sloped in ugly direction... grr :(
18:06<Samu>i don't know the operator needed
18:07<Samu>SLOPE_SW (insert operator) SLOPE_STEEP_W = SLOPE_S
18:07<Samu>what is the operator?
18:08<Samu>that gives me that result
18:09<Wolf01>I would suggest "minus", but it's not how it works, so try with XOR
18:11<Samu>XOR is ^ ?
18:11<Wolf01>Usually yes
18:12<Samu>gonna get horribad result
18:13<Wolf01>Oh, my bad, it's not a flag
18:13<Samu>:( i got an assertion, :(
18:14<Wolf01>Give a look ad the "RemoveHalfSlopes" function or what its name
18:21<Samu>i see
18:21<Samu>testing ComplementSlope(tileh_start) & ~(tileh_end_aqueduct & ~SLOPE_STEEP)
18:22<Samu>nope, i got a SLOPE_FLAT as result :(
18:22<Wolf01>You could make a separate patch with some utility functions
18:25<Samu>the result I was expecting was SLOPE_W
18:28<Samu>tileh_start is SLOPE_NE
18:28<Samu>the complement is SLOPE_SW
18:29<Samu>SLOPE_SW & ~SLOPE_W = SLOPE_S
18:29<Samu>SLOPE_S is the final result I want
18:29<Samu>but i got to calculate SLOPE_W
18:30<Wolf01>You should ask frosch for this
18:31<Samu>he's the slope master?
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19:26<Samu>and this is why i failed to be a programmer
19:27<Samu>lol, i'm still failing
19:27<Samu>code doesn't work, i'm horrible
19:37<Samu>ah, i needed more breaks
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---Logclosed Thu Sep 22 00:00:28 2016