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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-24

---Logopened Sat Sep 24 00:00:31 2016
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02:31<andythenorth>o/
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03:03<andythenorth>lo Alberth
03:03<@Alberth>hi hi
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03:37<andythenorth>using train length 5 everywhere is very logical, but very boring also
03:37*andythenorth playing ottd
03:38<andythenorth>bbl
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04:47<argoneus>good morning train friends
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05:01<Wolf01>o/
05:03<@Alberth>moin
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05:19<Wolf01>o/
05:19<Wolf01>Quak too
05:19<frosch123>ciao
05:20*andythenorth playing ottd
05:20<andythenorth>needs some alternative types of road
05:20<Wolf01>Really?
05:21<andythenorth>yeah
05:21*andythenorth wonders if anyone has ever considered that
05:21<Wolf01>It would be cool
05:22<@Alberth>new FIRS!
05:23<frosch123>new bugs :)
05:23<frosch123>the translator credits contain "es_MX" :)
05:24<andythenorth>new FIRS!
05:24<andythenorth>frosch123: o_O bug
05:25<frosch123>https://translator.openttdcoop.org/language-list <- i thought it was using that list
05:25<frosch123>but maybe some regex fails
05:26<frosch123>hmm, no, apparently we duplicated the language names to yet another script :p
05:26<@Alberth>:p
05:28<andythenorth>constants :P
05:28<andythenorth>we should fetch them from the network
05:28*andythenorth has to maintain constants across 3 vehicle grfs, for cargo colours and such
05:28<andythenorth>boring
05:28<frosch123>well, let's see what the next release says :)
05:30<@Alberth>make a constant sub-project :p
05:30<frosch123>"constant" is an abbreviation for "constantly changing"
05:33<@Alberth>maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type
05:33<@Alberth>but perhaps there are actually not many real constants
05:35<andythenorth>frosch123: seems I’d need to make changes here for roadtypes? https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/blob/master/nml/actions/action2var_variables.py#L18
06:05<andythenorth>hmm
06:05<andythenorth>maybe I should just hack at it, instead of trying to make a nice set of commits
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06:25<@Alberth>that usually works better as a first attempt
06:26<@Alberth>once it works, you can make a new set of commits which improves on nice-ness :)
06:38<andythenorth>maybe I should write a reference grf (nml file) first
06:38<andythenorth>then keep hacking until it stops failing to compile
06:38<andythenorth>and hope all the tests pass
06:40<andythenorth>maybe nml should ship with reference grfs for each feature :P
06:40<Wolf01><Alberth> maybe we should have "real constant" and "moving constant" as type <- maybe you are looking for "variable"?
06:40<Wolf01>XD
06:41<@Alberth>that changes a little too fast, perhaps :)
06:42<@Alberth>it often can't even decide what value to have in a single program run :)
06:42<andythenorth>global properties :P
06:43<andythenorth>mutable, but not variables
06:43<andythenorth>‘context specific constants’ :P
06:43*andythenorth has spent too long around python web frameworks
06:49<@Alberth>Likely, these things exist at more places :)
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08:36<Samu>i present to you my coding skills ^_^
08:36<Samu>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfvyzywvd
08:37<Samu>terraform decision for ship depot placement
08:39*andythenorth seeks a ‘very high’ industry setting
08:39<andythenorth>at map gen time
08:41*andythenorth solves that
08:41<andythenorth>bigger map, higher water setting
09:02*andythenorth needs a grfid for Unsinkable Sam
09:02<Wolf01>frosch123, could you give me an hand with this patch? https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgUFeOGLNNfVhb9ZJPHngM3G3LY0Lg
09:06<andythenorth>FIRS ‘extreme’ is much better with very high industry count
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09:28<Wolf01>I made the level land tool work as expected, the raise/lower tools are too fast but they work well to make smooth hills if you keep the mouse button pressed for less than a second
09:30<Wolf01>Still have problems drawing the affected area for the cursor, but I can't change the _thd.selstart as I use it to retrieve the height of the tile from I started to draw
09:33<Wolf01>The good thing is that now I can terraform a 256^2 map with a good looking terrain in less than a minute
09:36<Samu>I got a dilema
09:36<Samu>building canals, the real one
09:36<Samu>should it auto-terraform
09:37<Samu>what about drag and drop building of canals?
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09:38<Samu>meh, while at it, should it auto-build-lock on inclined slopes when drag-and-drop building canals?
09:38<Samu>lel
09:39<Wolf01>Why not?
09:40<Samu>that would make it too easy
09:41<Samu>but it's an interesting idea
09:41<Wolf01>We introduced CTRL+build station to ease station walking, why not even auto-lock on slopes while building canals?
09:41<frosch123>Wolf01: remember the previous tile in some global var, and only execuite if tiles differ?
09:42<andythenorth>locks are crap
09:42<andythenorth>super crap
09:42<Wolf01>Thank you frosch123, I'm trying that right now, as I really need to fix the tile hightlight data
09:42<andythenorth>ships should just be able to go up the slope
09:42<andythenorth>implied lock
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09:44<frosch123>Wolf01: i guess you can also change selstart, if you save the height in some other variable
09:44<Wolf01>andythenorth, if you don't want locks just build canals at the same height ;)
09:44<andythenorth>I just lower land
09:44<andythenorth>fuck canals :P
09:45<andythenorth>oops swearing in the channel :(
09:45<andythenorth>bad andythenorth
09:45<Wolf01>Everything at sea level
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09:45<Wolf01>Pfff, you can't even beat V swearing :P
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09:47<Samu>it would kind of make the "build lock" obsolet
09:47<Samu>the button
09:47<Wolf01>Nah, you always need to build locks in other places
09:47<Samu>just build canal on slope, and it auto-places lock
09:47<andythenorth>locks annoy me
09:48<andythenorth>waste of 3 tiles
09:48<andythenorth>ho ho, nml *does* ship with example nml files :)
09:48<andythenorth>great
09:49<Samu>gonna toy with the idea of auto-lock when building canal on inclinedslope
09:50<Samu>brb
09:54<Wolf01>frosch123, how do I set the _thd.selend from the current tile and the _terraform_size?
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10:21<andythenorth>hmm
10:23<@Alberth>o/
10:25<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/commit/9e835dd6f719d37133947c3f56396cbbd3db2550
10:26<andythenorth>fails https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxb2hmd53
10:26<andythenorth>I think a list entry is either not initialised, or being given the wrong length as a count somewhere
10:28<andythenorth>properties[0x12] doesn’t seem to exist
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10:31<andythenorth>looks like l154 in action0properties.py should be properties = 0x13 * [None]
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10:31*andythenorth smells a mess in this
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10:47<andythenorth>ach
10:47<andythenorth>frosch123: apparently I’ve compiled a roadtypes grf
10:48<andythenorth>is there any sane way I can inspect it?
10:58<@Alberth>grfcodec -d ?
10:59<andythenorth>well that worked
11:00<andythenorth>loading the grf in ottd triggers a nice assert though
11:00<andythenorth>no surprise
11:02<@Alberth>hmm, shouldn't it just ignore unknown sprite numbers?
11:05<andythenorth>dunno :)
11:11<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8100/example_roadtype.grf
11:12<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^
11:12<Wolf01>:)
11:13<andythenorth>from the nfo, it appears to have defined _something_ correctly
11:13<andythenorth>it’s basically a clone of most of newgrf railtypes
11:14<andythenorth>with the feature number set to 12
11:14<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0
11:14<andythenorth>with the grf loaded, openttd now asserts with the following message
11:14<andythenorth> Message: Assertion failed at line 133 of /source/openttd/src/newgrf.cpp: feature < GSF_END
11:15<andythenorth>which is promising, and perhaps a place to start? o_O
11:15<Wolf01>I might need some new terraform icons... at least 5
11:17<andythenorth>is there one needed for ‘random’ o_O
11:17<Wolf01>Maybe later
11:17<andythenorth>or ‘restore rivers’ ? o_O
11:18<Wolf01>Nah, but a "select start and end point for river" might be useful
11:18<Wolf01>Even for valleys/mountains
11:20<andythenorth>‘carve a river valley'
11:20<Wolf01>Yup
11:24<Wolf01>Embanked rivers and such
11:24<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=75187 <- I'll implement some of these
11:24<Wolf01>Specially the kamnet ones
11:25<Wolf01>Also, now with just 5 tools the editor is finally usable
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11:29<andythenorth>is this scenario only, or also in game?
11:30<Wolf01>Editor only, too powerfull to be used in game
11:30<Wolf01>Added the patch to the post, if you want to try it
11:31<Wolf01>Now I must prepare and go out :P
11:33*andythenorth compiles
11:35<Wolf01>I left out almost all the safety checks, I just put on to not crash at the first action :P
11:35<Wolf01>But I don't know how it will work with unmovables
11:35<Wolf01>Maybe it destroys everything
11:37<andythenorth> 'WID_ETT_PAINT_LOWER_LAND'; did you mean 'WID_ETT_LOWER_LAND'?
11:37<andythenorth>got a few errors like that, make then bails out
11:37*andythenorth might be missing some symbols or something
11:38<Wolf01>Uhm
11:39<Wolf01>It skipped some files
11:40*andythenorth tries make clean
11:40<@Alberth>make mrproper to get back at unconfigured state
11:41<andythenorth>interesting
11:41<Samu>am I smart?
11:41<Samu>TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope)))));
11:41<Wolf01>Tortoise generates corrupted patches
11:42<Samu>i want to move north
11:43<goodger>moving north is generally a good idea unless you live in the southern hemisphere
11:43*andythenorth does not live in the north
11:43<Samu>get inclined slope direction gives me the direction that goes up
11:44<Samu>if that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
11:44<@Alberth>given that you move north, you just know what to add to x & y
11:44<Samu>oops my english
11:44<Samu>that direction could be southwards or northwards, but i only want to go north
11:45<@Alberth>AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis( ... )) is of course just bollocks
11:45<Samu>diagdirtoaxis returns the axis of that slope
11:45<Samu>axis to diagdir always returns me the southern direction
11:45<Samu>reversediagdir brings me the northern direction
11:46<Samu>i am smart-1!
11:46<@Alberth>why not just test the diagdir, and add the right x&y ?
11:48<Samu>i'm adding it to a ClearedObjectArea thing
11:48<Samu>coa->area = TileArea(TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(DiagDirToAxis(GetInclinedSlopeDirection(slope))))), axis == AXIS_X ? 3 : 1, axis == AXIS_Y ? 3 : 1);
11:48<Samu>the full line
11:49<Samu>it's a lock
11:49<Wolf01>andythenorth, fixed the patch should work now
11:49<Samu>tile is the inclined slope, slope is inclined
11:54<Samu>i'm trying to auto-lock when placing canals
11:54<Samu>but drag & drop is messing me up
11:56<Samu>drag building canals that go over an inclined sloep, will build a lock automatically
11:56<Samu>it's jut that locks are FAT buildings and the next tile that it is gonna be placing a canal will be giving me trouble
11:57<Samu>it's just*
11:58<andythenorth>Wolf01: compiling again
12:02<Wolf01>Worked or borked?
12:02<andythenorth>hmm
12:02<andythenorth>well it’s running now
12:03<andythenorth>ha ha
12:03<andythenorth>yeah, you need to listen to key repeat at a lower rate :)
12:04<Wolf01>I think I need to listen to "pt.x mod TILE_SIZE" = 0
12:04<Wolf01>Now it triggers even if you move the pointer by 1 pixel
12:05<Wolf01>But I'm not sure if that will work
12:08<@Alberth>compute the tile, if it's the same as last time, ignore
12:09<Wolf01>It's a tile area
12:09<Wolf01>You can raise even a 8x8
12:10<@Alberth>testing at exactly 0 sounds very fragile
12:11<Samu>i'm still trying to learn how to use ClearedTileArea correctly
12:12<Samu>oops ClearedObjectArea
12:14*andythenorth wonders if Road Hog will ever get other rosters :P
12:15<@Alberth>any point in making other collections of trucks?
12:16<andythenorth>american style?
12:16<andythenorth>visually
12:21<andythenorth>gameplay, not sure
12:21<andythenorth>first roster is quite brit-ish
12:21<andythenorth>but the trams are from all over the world, or invented
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12:24<andythenorth>Alberth: suggest a grfid for Unsinkable Sam? o_O
12:25<@Alberth>SAM1 ? USA1
12:25<andythenorth>USS1?
12:25<@Alberth>ATN1
12:26<andythenorth>ATN? o_O
12:26<@Alberth>andy the north :)
12:26<@Alberth>USS sounds nice, points towards submarines :)
12:29<Wolf01>USC? c = cat
12:31<frosch123>FIS3
12:32<andythenorth>considered that :)
12:32<andythenorth>Unsinkable Sam is Not FISH
12:32<andythenorth>hardly recursive :P
12:33<@Alberth>doesn't need to be recursive, as it never sinks :)
12:34<andythenorth>ha
12:34*andythenorth wants to make ships
12:34<andythenorth>I have paid my NotRoadTypes debts for today
12:36<Wolf01>Right, tomorrow we can start doing the grf code
12:36<andythenorth>assuming the grf isn’t nonsense :P
12:36<Wolf01>What did you put in it?
12:36<Wolf01>Just to know what should I expect
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12:38<andythenorth>single roadtype, with label “ROAD”
12:39<andythenorth>and some railtype sprites
12:39<andythenorth>format follows railtypes exactly right now
12:40<Wolf01>I think the outcome should be "2 roadtypes and 1 railtype (if tram grf loaded)", right?
12:40<Wolf01>*ltrailtype
12:40<andythenorth>not from the current test grf :)
12:41<andythenorth>but that can be extended
12:41<andythenorth>also I can’t seem to persuade nml to use the roadtypetable functions, so there is some nml work to do there :P
12:42<andythenorth>‘unreachable’ :P
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12:43<Wolf01>I had to move a variable declared in the middle of the code because it seem that in c++ functions can't look below themselves, maybe it's the same problem?
12:43<andythenorth>nah, in this case I think it’s that I need to make an explicit call to some functions in parser.py, but I can’t find where
12:52<@peter1138>"functions can't look" ... k
12:53<@peter1138>(you can't use stuff if it isn't declared yet)
12:53<andythenorth>the functions are declared, but nothing calls them afaict
12:53<andythenorth>and I can’t figure out what to cargo cult from railtypes to get them called
12:54<Wolf01>Nah, peter1138 is right, I'm too used to higher level languages where doesn't matter if you declare a variable after or before a function ;)
12:56<andythenorth>specifically ‘roadtypetable_list’ and some others are not reachable
12:56<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/blob/NotRoadTypes/nml/parser.py#L666
12:56<andythenorth>nice line number :P
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13:06<andythenorth>any way to check if a grfid is known 55535331?
13:06<andythenorth>or is in someone’s ‘reserved’ range?
13:07<andythenorth>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#GRFID
13:11<frosch123>the "1" is stupid :p
13:11<Wolf01>BBL
13:11<frosch123>"USRA" (US Roads Addon) is the nearest
13:14<andythenorth>frosch123: propose a not-1 alternative? o_O
13:14<andythenorth>0?
13:15<frosch123>do you plan to do a second one? :p
13:15<frosch123>use "3", noone does 3 versions of the same grf
13:16<frosch123>"3" is probably unique for all leading chars :p
13:17<andythenorth>it’s embarassing that I have to use this to convert from ascii :P
13:17<andythenorth>https://www.branah.com/ascii-converter
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13:21<@Alberth>print([chr(x) for x in "USRA"]) :)
13:22<frosch123>ah, "3" is used by those one-grf-per-vehicle guys
13:23<+glx>printf("%08X", 'USRA'); should work too
13:23<@peter1138>tggggg
13:24<@peter1138>erm
13:31<@Alberth>just use "USRA" in the grfid :)
13:36<Samu>grrr stupid tile area loop doesn't work like i think
13:37<Samu>tile area, just adds the tiles
13:37<Samu>the loop doesn't care for which directions they were added
13:38<Samu>it adds them at the opposite direction of how I dragged some times
13:39<Samu>north to south - everything is fine
13:39<Samu>south to north - assert
13:40<Samu>so i see now why that swap existed on the bridge command
13:40<Samu>TILE_AREA_LOOP is noob
13:45<Samu>i dragged from tiles 8893 to 8891, tile area loop begins at 8891, hmmm must think
13:50<Samu>okay, so this means i'm always building towards the south diag direction
13:50<Samu>even if im not
13:51<Samu>coa->first_tile = TileAddByDiagDir(tile, ReverseDiagDir(AxisToDiagDir(axis)));
13:51<Samu>will test
13:53<Samu>nice, it werks!
13:53<Samu>so this means i don't need diagdir for anything
13:54<Samu>dayum, auto locks while building canals, looks pretty
13:56<Samu>this might actually be the best idea yet, Wolf01
13:56<Samu>makes building canal lines so much easier
13:57<Samu>feels like building a straight road over all types of terrain
13:57<Samu>problem might be that canals don't have foundations
13:58<Samu>and locks are still fat buildings, it may not go over all slopes
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14:32<andythenorth>frosch123: so I can’t use 3? o_O
14:34<@Alberth>copper ore refinery looks great andy
14:35<frosch123>sure :p
14:41<andythenorth>Alberth: it’s fun eh? :)
14:42<@Alberth>it is :)
14:42<@Alberth>playing in a hot country with maglev trains :)
14:42<@Alberth>and BB
14:42<andythenorth>need to do a copper mine
14:42<@Alberth>1 train is enough :p
14:42<andythenorth>default sprites are a bit boring
14:43<@Alberth>I agree on that, compared to your sprites
14:44<andythenorth>let me know if you get inspired for a Busier Bee :P
14:44<andythenorth>with more goal types
14:48<@Alberth>ticket seems to suggest a city bee, or a pax bee :) http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/7826
14:49<@Alberth>although a combination of pax and industry could be nice
14:50<andythenorth>found an arbitrary industry and demand service is the one I would like to add
14:50<andythenorth>after a while I always end up funding industry
14:51<@Alberth>:o I almost never do that
14:52<@Alberth>well, failure to find a supplier for an industry could work :)
14:53<@Alberth>although maybe it would be too simple to let the player decide where to put it
14:53<andythenorth>yeah
14:54<andythenorth>I originally thought it might be an actual goal, to have player fund the industry directly
14:54<andythenorth>but now I think BB should do it
14:54<andythenorth>can it provide a dialog, with an option: fund yes/no
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14:55*andythenorth considers letting playing invest €xxx in industry development
14:55<andythenorth>but the GS chooses what and where [randomly or by some rules]
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16:00<andythenorth>hmm
16:00<andythenorth>sea vs. river ships is a crap distinction
16:00*andythenorth removes that
16:00<Wolf01>You make all river ships?
16:02<Supercheese>ships is ships
16:03<andythenorth>all same speed ships
16:03<andythenorth>no pissing around with slower / faster on river / sea
16:03<andythenorth>Wolf01: my current game needs a cogwheel tramway
16:03<andythenorth>or cable tram
16:03<andythenorth>16 tile mountain or so :P
16:04<Wolf01>Indeed, you need to introduce draught for ships, you can have slow ships on sea too
16:05<Wolf01>My current game needs half and double slopes
16:06<Wolf01>Even vertical walls
16:07<Wolf01>And proper bridges/tunnels... maybe I want locomotion
16:14<andythenorth>:P
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18:30<Wolf01>'night
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19:58<Samu>hi
19:58<Samu>I just made build lock button obsolete :o
20:01<Samu>well... not entirely, but still...
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21:01-!-Mazur is "Stefan Linnemann" on #oolite #openttd @#openttdcoop @#openttdcoop.stable
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21:01-!-Cursarion is "R.K." on #openttd
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21:01-!-chnkr_ is "Got ZNC?" on #virt #tor-project #tor-bots #qemu #otr #openttd #oftc #observium #msys2 #moocows #mingw-w64 #limesco #help #gcc #fish #debian-offtopic #debian-nl #debian-next #debian-mentors #debconf #awesome
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21:01-!-tneo is "tneo" on #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop #openttd #opendune
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21:02-!-Alkel_U3 is "alkel" on #openttd
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21:02-!-goodger is "GOODGER" on #openttd
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22:47-!-Biolunar is "Biolunar" on #openttd #suckless
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23:29-!-gnu_jj is "jj" on #openttd.dev #openttd @#sfttech @#openage
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 25 00:00:32 2016