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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-09-30

---Logopened Fri Sep 30 00:00:40 2016
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07:44<Wolf01>Shit Trenitalia, on strike again
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08:48<sim-al2>Wait how much of Trenitalia?
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08:58<Wolf01>I expect them to file for bankruptcy soon or later, so smaller private companies could really take over
08:59<sim-al2>I've heard that they've been fairly bad compared to the regional companies
09:00<goodger>related: first great western still can't tell me whether they're running trains on the 27th of december
09:01<goodger>is it just that they haven't worked it out for themselves yet, or is it part of some passive-aggressive plot to extract extra money from me?
09:01<Wolf01>They are feeding a spiral where they provide a low quality service and less passengers use trains, so they will provide even lower quality service in response because they don't want to spend money
09:01<sim-al2>As in, actively trying to dump freight traffic for various weird reason, as well as poor passenger service
09:01<sim-al2>Supposedly the road lobby is very strong in Italy
09:03<Wolf01>Also now they are planning to cut out yearly/monthly subscriptions on rapid trains, so you will be forced to purchase tickets every day
09:03<sim-al2>wow seriously
09:03<sim-al2>That's dumb
09:04<Wolf01>They stated that "those subscriptions don't make enough revenue"
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>that kind of spiral is very common in capitalism, unfortunately
09:05<sim-al2>It's like they;re trying to recreate the 50's and 60's in the US
09:05<Wolf01>I hope for overground metro... they are already building some new stations in my area, but the problem is still that we are using the old ERTMS system, which is like block signals of Transport Tycoon, and doesn't allow many trains on the lines
09:06<sim-al2>Just keep cutting until it's basically impossible to actually use trains for normal journies
09:06<Wolf01>They planned to switch to ERTMS level 3 in 10 years
09:08<sim-al2>Is there actually a level 3 implementation yet?
09:09<Wolf01>They started using it last year in Europe
09:10<Wolf01>Seem that Sweden railways was experimenting it since 2012
09:10<sim-al2>Moving block is one thing for metro trains with consistent and strong braking performace
09:10<sim-al2>Freight trains can be a whole other beast entirely
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09:14<sim-al2>Oh, it looks like the Swedish implementations are for rural lines that perviously had little in the way of safety systems at all, and relies on different equipment
09:15<sim-al2>It uses the ETCS 3 standards, but the usage is different, no moving blocks for example
09:22<Wolf01> lol... how complicate is our signalling system? (and the english version isn't even complete)
09:22<Wolf01>The UK one is really easier to understand
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09:42<sim-al2>Italy's is a lot like some of the old US speed signaling, but it looks like they kept adding stuff (so not unlike the US either)
09:42<sim-al2>The track code system is also based on American equipment
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10:23<Wolf01>Reboot.. I hope to be able to return
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10:27<Eddi|zuHause>... famous last words :p
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10:39<Wolf01>The reboot is always a critical action with my system, shotdown and manual startup works, but startup after reboot always fail badly
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10:48-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
10:48<@Alberth>hi hi
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: that sounds like a hardware/driver problem, some device doesn't reset properly on "soft" reboot
12:14<Wolf01>The bios is TFU
12:15<Wolf01>I can't anymore save and exit because the pc wouldn't boot up again if I don't remove the ram
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13:45<Wolf01>V453000, nice new rails, are you layering them to resolve the sleepers over rail problem?
13:46<V453000>yes, they work with 4 layers
13:46<V453000>I will describe it in detail in about 2 weeks
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13:47<NekoMaster>hello everybody!
13:47<Wolf01>TBH I didn't understood well the problem which will be fixed not having the prites flipped
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13:48<V453000>if you have them flipped they must look flat - top down view
13:48<V453000>now they are rendered at 45 deg so you see their bottom parts
13:48<Wolf01>Oh ok
13:48<NekoMaster>I wonder if someone can help me with my NML problem, another random problem >_>
13:48<Wolf01>Old flat graphics will still be there, right?
13:49<V453000>actually not
13:49<Wolf01>Because my tablet wouldn't handle the new graphics
13:49<V453000>wait you are mixing it up
13:49<V453000>factorio will always have normal resolution of sprites, and high resolution as an option
13:49<V453000>for all graphics
13:50<Wolf01>Ok, I meant that
13:50<Wolf01>I already have problems with smoke with that pc
13:50<NekoMaster>Heres a problem I'm having with NML when I try to compile (with code that worked just the other day)
13:50<Wolf01>Had to deactivate it :P
13:50<Wolf01>Also, dinner, bbl
13:51<V453000>it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes
13:51<V453000>but it isn't that much
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13:51-!-andythenorth is "Andy" on #openttd
13:51<NekoMaster>hi andy
13:51<andythenorth>is cat
13:52<NekoMaster>is the master of cats
13:52<NekoMaster>too bad i'm not a master of NML
13:53<andythenorth>is / valid in comments?
13:53*andythenorth wonders if it’s tripping up an escape
13:54<drac_boy>just curious about this but .. I know ttdx was 1950 .. ttdxp was 1920 .. but how early does ottd let you start at again btw?
13:54<andythenorth>nvm, I was looking at the wrong line
13:54<andythenorth>drac_boy: guess?
13:54<NekoMaster>NML Is complaning that "template" is an unexpected token and fails to compile >_>
13:55<andythenorth>NekoMaster: where’s the actual code (rather than a screenshot of the code)
13:55<andythenorth>paste it in the forums, or
13:55<NekoMaster>its on my hard disk, in my dropbox
13:55<NekoMaster>I could just link to the file directly
13:55<andythenorth>public dropbox?
13:55<andythenorth>that works
13:55<drac_boy>andy.. 1900?
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13:55<NekoMaster>I believe in OpenTTD you can start as early as 1600
13:56<andythenorth>drac_boy: you don’t have ottd installed where you ar?
13:56<andythenorth>are *
13:56<NekoMaster>my template.pnml file
13:56<andythenorth>got it
13:56<NekoMaster>This stuff worked the other day and now it doesnt work
13:56<@Alberth>oh, hi, I just replied
13:57<@Alberth>open the nml file, find the line in that file by searchiing for something unique like your comment in line 70
13:57<@Alberth>*at line 70
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13:57<@Alberth>likely the construct before is messed up
13:58<NekoMaster>Well its complaining that at Line 73 theres an unexpected token
13:58<andythenorth>misssing } on L69
13:58<andythenorth>$10 on it
13:58<NekoMaster>: I
13:58<NekoMaster>im so dumb
13:58<andythenorth>no, you’re just not in the habit of knowing how to do this stuff
13:58<andythenorth>nobody got born knowing
13:59<NekoMaster>Well it is true that I'm still new to coding
13:59<@Alberth>yes, "template" can only belong to top-level definitions, and a missing } prevents you from reaching top -level :)
13:59<@Alberth>np, it happened to all of us
13:59<@Alberth>with various brackets :p
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14:00<NekoMaster>Now im having another problem >_>
14:00*andythenorth gets told off by Jenkins many days for writing <div> instead of </div>
14:00<andythenorth>which the browser will usually parse fine, but fails the validator
14:00<NekoMaster>VehicleID.pnml, line 7 : Syntax error , unexpectedt token "item"
14:01<andythenorth>NekoMaster: paste or link
14:01<NekoMaster>[Knmlc ERROR: "src/vehicleID.pnml", line 7: Syntax error, unexpected token "item"
14:01<NekoMaster>Included from: "NARS_ADDON_SET.pnml", line 13
14:01<NekoMaster>make: *** [NARS_ADDON_SET.grf] Error 1
14:01<NekoMaster>cp: cannot stat `D:\\USERS\\MATTHEW\\~DROPBOX~\\Dropbox\\~ OpenTTD Projects ~\\NARS_ADDON\\NARS_ADDON_SET.tar': No such file or directory
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14:02<andythenorth>have you got the compiled nml file?
14:02<andythenorth>that one might be an error in preceeding include file
14:03<NekoMaster>yeah theres the NARS_ADDON_SET.nml
14:03<NekoMaster>I tried deleting it but that didn't change anything
14:04<andythenorth>generate it again and paste it into the pastebin above
14:04<andythenorth>Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O
14:04<NekoMaster>here you go
14:05<andythenorth>L256 another missing }
14:06<andythenorth>should be on L257
14:06<NekoMaster>how do I fix that?
14:06<andythenorth>template_L6B is borked
14:06<andythenorth>in templates.pnml
14:06<NekoMaster>i see it
14:06<NekoMaster>added a bracket
14:07<andythenorth>there are two choices here
14:07<andythenorth> help
14:07<andythenorth>oops, hit enter there :P
14:07<andythenorth>1. get a text editor that warns about missing brackets, many do
14:07<andythenorth>2. and/or write code like this
14:07<andythenorth>item(stuff) {}
14:07<andythenorth>item(stuff) {more stuff}
14:08<NekoMaster>Im using notepad++
14:08<NekoMaster>i like that its simple and easy to use
14:08<andythenorth>same issue comes up with things like “”
14:08<andythenorth>so lots of people do the brackets, quotes etc, then put the content in
14:08<NekoMaster>yay my code compiled!
14:08<NekoMaster>now I can get back to adding more locomotives
14:09<NekoMaster>i just did up the sprite sheets for some GE locomotives
14:09<NekoMaster>Including my horribly modified GE P32-8BWH
14:09<NekoMaster>but im glad its working now :)
14:09<NekoMaster>thanks for your help Andy
14:09<andythenorth>most of my compile failures are just syntax errors like that
14:10<andythenorth>pretty common
14:10<NekoMaster>Hmm, btw how would one add in proper flipping sprites?
14:10<NekoMaster>that way small locomotives dont look derp
14:10<andythenorth>there’s a feature for it
14:10<NekoMaster>i know
14:10<andythenorth>depot flip?
14:10<andythenorth>or something else?
14:10<NekoMaster>Yeah, I have flipping enabled on my locomotives
14:11<NekoMaster>considering this is all american stuff
14:11<Wolf01><V453000> it will need a little more vram than previously since we don't flip it yes <- eh, that it would kill my pc, I don't have enough vram
14:12<V453000>well you can always reduce the graphics options further :P
14:12<Wolf01><andythenorth> Wolf01: did you play on last night? o_O <- yup, an hour or 2
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14:13<Wolf01>V, I already have the min possible graphics options with current version :P
14:16<andythenorth>Wolf01: did you keep a save locally? o_O
14:16<andythenorth>I have a save from when I left
14:16<Wolf01>Uhm... nope, I forgot
14:16<Wolf01>Also my router disconnected again
14:17<Wolf01>Btw, I think we could restart from there, as when I disconnected we only had 10 years left and just one factory
14:19<andythenorth>I need to get my kids in bed and sort out dinner
14:19<andythenorth>but I might play again tonight
14:19<andythenorth>or tomorrow
14:19<andythenorth>depends if anyone else joins :)
14:19<andythenorth>we need about 5 people to win SV
14:19<Wolf01>I don't know if I can, multiple updates running in my network
14:19<andythenorth>tomorrow might be better?
14:20<NekoMaster>Perhaps I should disable flipping on short locomotives until I can fix the gap issue with small locmotives
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14:26<andythenorth>what problem are you having?
14:28<V453000>Wolf01: minimal or normal? :D
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14:33<andythenorth>oh he gone
14:33<andythenorth>mystery of flipping will never be know
14:33<andythenorth>known *
14:33*andythenorth should bed
14:33<andythenorth>type cannot
14:34<Wolf01>andythenorth, do you have running restrictions too, like "train must have brake wagon"?
14:35<Wolf01>V453000, minimal, I have an Intel integrated gpu
14:35<Wolf01>It doesn't even show HD movie
14:41<andythenorth>Wolf01: not in Iron Horse
14:41<andythenorth>brake wagon is eye candy
14:44<Wolf01>I found a strange thing with Pikka's UK train set, I can't run trains without the caboose and my friend which plays in coop can, if I send the train to a depot I can't run it again :P
14:45<@Alberth>andy: the section that starts with "Mind you"
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14:48<andythenorth>either he’s not set the length correctly, or he’s got the sprites on a sub-optimal bounding box, and is relying on offsets to move them back where they should be
14:49<andythenorth>or he’s not handling depot view correctly
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14:50<andythenorth>eh, so the RH trams work then?
14:50<andythenorth>based on the use in the MP games
14:54<@Alberth>I only used a few types, but they seemed nice
14:54<@Alberth>perhaps the game was a bit late for RH?
14:55<@Alberth>we had a lot of tramz iirc
14:55<@Alberth>or is that all the different cargoes?
14:55<@peter1138>Date: Sat Apr 11 18:46:01 2015 +0000
14:55<@peter1138>my checkout is a bit old...
14:58<@Alberth>don't think much happened
14:58<andythenorth>and a few bug fixes
14:58<andythenorth>no BAD FEATURES
14:58<andythenorth>Alberth: probably 3 or 4 of each type of tram in a game that late
14:58<andythenorth>‘pick the newest'
14:59<@Alberth>I went for fastest or largest or so :)
14:59<@peter1138>Your branch is behind 'origin/master' by 289 commits, and can be fast-forwarded.
14:59<@peter1138>Yeah, 289 in over a year...
15:00<V453000>Wolf01: I will suggest a graphics mode which only uses 8 pixel colours instead of all atlases
15:00<@Alberth>2. just black and white :)
15:01*andythenorth considers a new ‘night mode’ base set
15:01<@Alberth>the current one is mostly unusable iirc
15:02<@Alberth>it's so dark, you can't even see what you're doing
15:03<andythenorth>my kids play a dragon game that updates now and then with a new theme
15:03<andythenorth>it’s just gone ‘night mode’ for autumn
15:03<andythenorth>but it’s not that dark
15:03<andythenorth>kind of blue
15:03<@Alberth>hmm, they skipped toyland ground sprites :)
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15:05<@Alberth>oh, might be opengfx+landscape instead
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15:10<Wolf01>V453000, dows texture compression changes a lot? Should I enable or disable that?
15:10<V453000>try? :D
15:10<Wolf01>I take 4 minutes to launch the game
15:10<Wolf01>No time to check every option
15:12<Wolf01>But I found that the sprite resolution does not change the speed it run
15:12<Wolf01>So I can have it set to normal
15:16<Wolf01>I'm using the stable version there, maybe I should try with 0.14
15:23<Wolf01>Nice... 0.14.12 looks really corrupt
15:24<V453000>might want to consider upgrading your hardware tbh
15:25<V453000>the requirements will likely not decrease when it comes to VRAM
15:25<V453000>we don't even have all entities done yet
15:25<Wolf01>Can't... it's an all-in-one pc
15:29<Wolf01>0.14.11 works
15:30<V453000>sorry but what does all in one pc mean?
15:32<V453000>well you can always throw it away and buy a replacement :P
15:33<@Alberth>the former yes, the latter may be a problem :p
15:33<Wolf01>If you give me a job I could try to buy a surface 4 pro
15:33<Wolf01>Btw, 0.14.12 is borked
15:34<V453000>idk :D
15:34<andythenorth>factorio hiring? o_O
15:34*andythenorth could apply for a job
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15:36<Wolf01>With 0.14.11, normal textures, everything else disabled it's running at 29-34 FPS
15:38<V453000>andythenorth: sure do :) it's great
15:40<andythenorth>or /me could start a games company
15:41<Wolf01>Nice, will you start hiring?
15:41<andythenorth>would need an idea, and some money :P
15:41<andythenorth>best way to get money is to sell the gam
15:41<andythenorth>game *
15:48<Wolf01>I'm working at 2 games, 3 if I count OTTD, but that's not mine :P
15:49<Wolf01>The first one is the third time I'm rewriting it from scratch
16:08*andythenorth bed
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16:36<Samu>glx: can you take a look at this crash for me, pls?
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16:44<+glx>getting required files :)
16:45<+glx>but if you have msvc it's easy to do it yourself
16:46<+glx>you just need to get the pdb corresponding to openttd.exe from then open the crash.dmp in msvc
16:47<+glx>of course you also need the source files
16:53<Samu>i dont have a way to do that on this system
16:54<+glx>anyway it's a very old cpu ;)
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17:04<+glx>getting the stmbols is slower than it used to be
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17:05<+glx>maybe because most of the files are not in my local cache
17:10<+glx>call stack attached
17:10<+glx>but it's a weird crash
17:15<Samu>privileged instruction?
17:17<Samu>does that mean, cpu is too old for instruction?
17:18<+glx>but something really weird happened
17:19<+glx>when executing if (!v->Tick()) {
17:19<+glx>maybe the pointer was broken before the call, but that should not happen
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17:22<Samu>trrying to decipher what they say
17:23<+glx>the only thing I can imagine is something wrong happened to vehicle pool but I don't see how it's possible
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17:30<Samu>what's a "garbage code"?
17:31<Samu>and why is it called garbage-...
17:31<Samu>Ais run garbage code, right?
17:35<Samu>ah, garbage collector
17:42<+glx>anyway I think it may also be a RAM chip failure
17:45<Samu>DDR-400 :) super fast
17:48<Samu>hmm never really had memory issues with this system
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17:52<Samu>it uses a AGP video card, it uses aperture memory and the agp driver ain't that great
17:53<Samu>usually when this system crashes, it's a BSOD crash, brings down windows with it
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17:57<Samu>RAM isn't the problem, maybe drivers are, as this video card belongs to that time when ATI drivers blew major time
17:57<Samu>i have no solution for it
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18:15<lambwich>does anyone know if it's possible to apply patches on osx 10.9? i've been trying but encountering some issues, i think it might be my machine.
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19:00<Samu>glx, about the privileged instruction "A "privileged instruction" is a CPU instruction that is only allowed to execute when the processor is in KERNEL (and/or maybe Executive, Supervisor) Mode."
19:02<Samu>was there a I/O in here? if (!v->Tick()) {
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19:05<Samu>trying to read a hardware register with an I/O instruction. hmm :(
19:06<Samu>i dunno, seems like it's AGP aperture memory
19:07<Samu>the fast write
19:07<Samu>windows indicate 0 MB reserved for hardware
19:08<Samu>but i know the bios has set 64 MB of AGP aperture memory. I just have no idea how windows 7 does this agp mem management
19:08<Samu>apparently, not that good.
19:08<Samu>u there glx?
19:11<Samu>well, thx anyway for the help
19:15<Samu>i also read stuff about bad compiler optimization flags or whatever.
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19:27<Samu>0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly
19:30<Samu>that build gives me the 0xc000001d - application failed to initialize properly error. google search tells me "certain AMD cpus do not have the required SSE blabla", I find this in most of tech support forums for other programs
19:31<Samu>openttd_vs140.vcxproj must be using SSE2 instructions
19:31<Samu>or libraries?
19:31<Samu>do youknow what's the cause glx?
19:32<Samu>you're the windows expert :o
19:32<Samu>or visual studio perhaps?
19:32<+glx>the cause is probably some memory corruption and not related to openttd
19:33<Samu>oh, i'm on another matter
19:33<Samu>i posted a build on the forum, to bring to this computer, and i can't execute it
19:34<Samu>everything points out to SSE2 instructions being required to execute it on this system, which this cpu doesn't support
19:34<Samu>what's different from the build that are created on and the ones created with visual studio?
19:36<Samu>is there a way to create non-SSE2 builds with visual studio?
19:36<Samu>i dunno how to ask it
19:45<+glx>compile farm uses VS2010, and SSE2 is default since VS2012
19:45<+glx>but you can modify it
19:51<Samu>ah, thank you very much, that's what I missed
19:52<Samu>also the reason 1.6.1 still runs here
19:58<Samu>i'm copy pasting this into the topic
20:06<Fujk>anyone know how to use Modular Locomotive sheds? I can't find anything placeable in game
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 01 00:00:41 2016