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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-01

---Logopened Sat Oct 01 00:00:41 2016
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03:18<andythenorth>o/
03:20<@Alberth>o/
03:21<andythenorth>is tram https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db1Vlvm9-kw
03:23<@Alberth>it seems a bit strange to me, trams transporting freight, I am so used to trams for pax only :)
03:24<andythenorth>it’s hardly common :)
03:25<andythenorth>ha this one is good http://www.tramz.com/br/pj/pj15.jpg
03:28<@Alberth>/me likes
03:28<@Alberth>trams are cheaper to run than regular trains, I guess
03:31<andythenorth>they don’t need signals and so on
03:32<andythenorth>so cheaper total cost of operation
03:33<andythenorth>in America the street railways were sometimes the connection between railroad and factory
03:33<andythenorth>normal wagons, hauled by tram engines for some last miles
03:34*andythenorth train nerd today
03:35<@Alberth>IH day :)
03:36*andythenorth -> kids football
03:36<andythenorth>bbl
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04:04<Wolf01>Moin
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04:17<@Alberth>hihi
04:27<Flygon>Alberth: Visit Melbourne, pre-80s :)
04:27<Flygon>We use to have freight trams dedicated to transporting canines
04:27<Flygon>Seriously.
04:27<Flygon>Though, rather than Tram loading gauge locomotives
04:27<Flygon>We ran single unit cars
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04:29<@Alberth>ok
04:29<@Alberth>/me steps in the time-travel machine
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04:36<@Rubidium>Alberth: you could go for a weekend to Melbourne; leave Friday around 21:30, return monday around 06:30. Then you got from 07:00 till 13:00 on Sunday in Melbourne ;)
04:38<@Alberth>ha :)
04:38<@Alberth>not exactly pre-80s, unless Flygon means 2080 :)
04:38<Flygon>Well...
04:38<@Rubidium>They must have a museum with pre-80s vehicles
04:38<Flygon>We basically stopped running Freight Trams by the early 90s
04:42<@Rubidium>but for the ultimate weekend trip... go to Auckland. You need to leave on Friday at 17:30 and arrive on Monday around 10:00... but you will have travelled quite a large number of longitudes and latitudes
04:42<@Rubidium>(probably the most you can manage in one weekend when departing from Amsterdam)
04:46<@Rubidium>Amsterdam -> China (4h transfer) -> Auckland (13h) -> San Francisco (3.5h transfer) -> Amsterdam
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05:11<Wolf01>o/
05:14<andythenorth>o
05:14<andythenorth>Wolf01: cogwheel NRT
05:14<andythenorth>or cableway
05:15<andythenorth>goes up hills with no slow down
05:15<Wolf01>Agreed
05:17<Wolf01>Let's do some NRT today
05:24<andythenorth>quak
05:24*andythenorth sees if that summons frosch
05:24<andythenorth>works sometimes
05:25<V453000>mooooooo
05:26<Wolf01>You summoned a cow :D
05:31<andythenorth>unlucky
05:32<V453000>whaaaaat doooo yooooouuuuuuuu reequuuuuuuuuuuireeee moortallll
05:32<V453000>mooooooooooo
05:32<Wolf01>Committed a quick edit
05:34<andythenorth>Wolf01: frosch might have a better suggestion, but I’d suggest we try to get a ‘normal’ road, where we can change the graphics, and vehicles can still drive on it
05:35<Wolf01>Yes, I'm doing the structural part now, to prepare a base for loading the grf
05:35<Wolf01>At the moment it just avoid to throw an error when loading it
05:35<andythenorth>adding more types, and extended features (catenary etc) can come later :)
05:38<Wolf01>Committed the biggest part, that spaghetti code which is "road types" with newgrf spec too
05:39<andythenorth>I might merge that to my repo
05:40<Wolf01>It's in my dev branch
05:41*andythenorth exploring github
05:42<Wolf01>Now... InitRoadTypes()
05:42<andythenorth>pull requests are new to andythenorth
05:42<andythenorth>usually merge branches in same repo :)
05:42<Wolf01>I don't even know git, so I'm no help
05:43<andythenorth>it’s just a matter of choosing right base and fork, but the direction is not obvious :P
05:45<Wolf01>Ok, loading original roadtypes does not crash
05:45<Wolf01>Which is nice
05:48<andythenorth>Wolf01: is your gui branch merged into your dev branch?
05:48<andythenorth>looks like it is
05:49<Wolf01>No, there are some "in development" things related to gui
05:50<Wolf01>For example, dev does not have separation between road and tram
05:50<andythenorth>ah ok
05:50<andythenorth>I was reading github wrong
05:50<Wolf01>I should merge everything in trunk
05:50<andythenorth>that’s why I can’t merge your dev to mine cleanly :)
05:51<andythenorth>9 conflicts https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/pull/4
05:54<Wolf01>Yes, I know
05:56<@peter1138>i had a patch for roadtypes once
06:00<andythenorth>didn’t you have 90% of it, then got stuck on a decision about something?
06:01<@peter1138>probably
06:06<Wolf01>Strange thing, really strange... _sorted_roadtypes -> 2, _sorted_roadtypes_size -> 0
06:07<Wolf01>And it must increment that counter when it sorts the roadtypes
06:08<Wolf01>Ok, it didn't load the label
06:12<andythenorth>is the label there?
06:13<Wolf01>The original RoadTypes should be there
06:13<andythenorth>ah ok
06:13<andythenorth>nml tests complain that some of the roadtable functions aren’t reached
06:13<andythenorth>which I couldn’t figure out
06:13<Wolf01>*should* mean that I missed something
06:15<Wolf01>ResetRoadTypes() should copy from the original roadtypes table, which has the labels
06:17<Wolf01>The worse thing is that I didn't ever call ResetRoadTypes() -.-'''
06:19<Wolf01>\o/ victory, rebuilt the dropdown with the roadtypes definitions
06:19<@Alberth>\o/
06:21<andythenorth>Alberth: are you familiar with nml compiler at all?
06:21<@Alberth>I refactored it to python3
06:22<@Alberth>so I have seen everything, but no idea about global structure :p
06:22<@Alberth>in particular too many actionXYZ that have absolutely no meaning to me
06:23<@Alberth>I should probably write a few newgrf extensions to get the idea
06:23<andythenorth>I have added parser functions for roadtypes, cargo-culting the railtypes equivalents
06:23<andythenorth>but they’re not reached
06:24<@Alberth>ok
06:24<andythenorth>I can’t find anything where the railtypes versions are called, so either I’m wrong, or there’s some magic
06:24<andythenorth>https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/tree/NotRoadTypes
06:24<andythenorth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pr7x1z5mp
06:24<andythenorth>parser.py is the file
06:25<andythenorth>the roadtypes example grf does compile ok
06:25<@Alberth>making a clone
06:26<andythenorth>apologies for git :P
06:26<andythenorth>there is no hg-hub
06:26<@Alberth>ah, I use it elsewhere too
06:26<@Alberth>it doesn't go well together with hg though, you get confused a lot
06:30<Wolf01>I think we will need to split the vehicle pool, or at least filter it in future, having RVs and trams with multiple types will be a mess
06:30<andythenorth>are helicopters and ‘normal’ planes split?
06:31<Wolf01>No
06:31<Wolf01>Filtering is preferred
06:31<@Alberth>railtype gets added at line 90
06:32<andythenorth>ach yup, thanks
06:32<@Alberth>yw
06:32<andythenorth>string magic?
06:33<@Alberth>no, regular production rules
06:33<andythenorth>interesting structures
06:33<@Alberth>the p_* functions are parser functions, and the doc string is the production rule
06:34*andythenorth wikipedia
06:34<@Alberth>"main_block" is one of the long list alternatives
06:34<andythenorth>no comp sci degree for andythenorth :P
06:35<andythenorth>otoh, I did study chomsky a bit
06:35<@Alberth>oh, you're an expert :p
06:35<@Alberth>the scanner processes the text of the input file, and splits it into tokens
06:36<@Alberth>ie the token stuff in tokens.py
06:36<@Alberth>a token is called a terminal
06:37<andythenorth>I did one course in philosophy of language, chomsky was 1 lecture :P
06:37<andythenorth>‘expert'
06:37<@Alberth>the parser builds a tree from terminals
06:37<@Alberth>where each level in the tree is a non-terminal, an intermediate node with a name like "main_block"
06:38<@Alberth>the production rules are descriptions of the sub-trees
06:39<@Alberth>this way the computer finds the same hierarchical structure you believe to exist in eg nml code
06:39<andythenorth>interesting
06:40<@Alberth>I graduated in compiler construction :p
06:40<@Alberth>expressions are easiest to understand probably
06:41<@Alberth>and there are plenty of toy calculator examples :p
06:41<@Alberth>eg at the PLY home page
06:41<@Alberth>in the documentation, used to explain how PLY works
06:42<andythenorth>fundamentally, it’s substituting one set of known symbols for another?
06:42<andythenorth>and there’s syntax validation
06:42<andythenorth>??
06:44<@Alberth>at the bottom level, the parser takes all production rules with only terminals, and matches one of them onto the first N terminals
06:44<@Alberth>with that match, it has created 1 level of the tree. It replaces the sequence of terminals with the matched non-terminal
06:45<@Alberth>then the game starts again, but now you get addition production rules that could match on the first non-terminal
06:45<andythenorth>is this top-down parsing?
06:45<@Alberth>not necessarily, it depends on how smart the rule matcher is
06:46*andythenorth is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_tree
06:46<Wolf01>\o/ loaded and allocated the first NRT from grf
06:46<@Alberth>a stupid rule matcher is indeed top-down, where you always take the first terminal, and then decide which way to go
06:46<Wolf01>No props at the moment, just the label
06:46<andythenorth>should probably look here instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_syntax_tree
06:46<andythenorth>Wolf01: \o/
06:46<andythenorth>:)
06:46<@Alberth>it's a start wolf!
06:47<@Alberth>a smarter rule matcher can skip some stuff, and do eg bottom up parsing, with an algorithm like LALR(1)
06:47<@Alberth>a parse tree is literally the tree that I described
06:48<andythenorth>:)
06:48<@Alberth>an abstract syntax tree is a reduced version of that, eg [ 1, 2, 3 ] becomes a list of 3 numbers, you don't need the [ ] , and while space
06:49<@Alberth>*white
06:49<@Alberth>which is commonly know as AST
06:49*andythenorth now understands something more about grfcodec
06:49<@Alberth>the p_* functions do the parse tree -> AST conversion
06:50<@Alberth>you can see them picking the terminals and non-terminals with interesting information only
06:50<andythenorth>and once we have the tree, outputting to some other format is relatively trivial?
06:50<andythenorth>it’s just printing :P
06:51<@Alberth>template stuff, just like you do
06:51<@Alberth>usually though, there is a check step, and perhaps a conversion step in-between
06:51<@Alberth>check step is usually the most effort
06:51<Wolf01>Oh, now I understand what are braces used for in cases...
06:52<andythenorth>turns out I wrote parsers, years ago, by accident, with no theory
06:52<andythenorth>badly
06:52<@Alberth>haha, I invented them too :)
06:53<andythenorth>mine would have been string splits, then scanning
06:53<andythenorth>but then we got xml support in flash, and everything was ok
06:53<andythenorth>not :P
06:54<@Alberth>simplest is top-down parsing, where you go from left to right
06:54<@Alberth>trouble is that sometimes your language is more complicated than what top-down can handle
06:54<@Alberth>and there you start making hacks :p
06:54<andythenorth>hacks never scale
06:54<andythenorth>except for php
06:55<@Alberth>:D
06:55<@Alberth>non-hacky php is 0 size? :p
06:55<andythenorth>the PHP inventor is quite interesting, he’s approximately about my standard at actual programming :P
06:55<andythenorth>and doesn’t care
06:57<@Alberth>improving at programming does take time and effort, so maybe he has other priorities
06:57<@Alberth>what scares me more is that a zillion people use the language even today
06:57<@Alberth>knowing it's crappy
06:57<andythenorth>nah, actually he’s a proper programmer, I am being rude :)
06:58<Wolf01>Btw andy, would it be possible to have a newgrf with something more useful than speed limit and acceleration model props?
06:58<@Alberth>tbh I wouldn't be surprised if someone could pull that off, the php language isn't very well designed
06:58<Wolf01>Maybe an alternate build menu name
06:59<Wolf01>Just to see if it works
06:59<@Alberth>but a proper design is not the primary problem of most people, clearly :p
06:59<andythenorth>Wolf01: in the NRT, right? Not vehicles? (just checking)
07:00<Wolf01>In NRT
07:00*andythenorth explores
07:00<@Alberth>back to work :p
07:00<andythenorth>Wolf01: do you have a way to build and run nmlc?
07:00<Wolf01>Nope
07:01<andythenorth>otherwise you are dependent on me uploading a grf somewhere :P
07:01<andythenorth>‘nml-as-a-web-service’ is needed
07:01<andythenorth>:P
07:01<Wolf01>Yup
07:01<Wolf01>Lets start doing something with PHP
07:01<Wolf01>;)
07:02<andythenorth>Wolf01: give me 5-10 mins, I’ll figure out what’s needed
07:02<andythenorth>I never wrote a railtype grf, and I am copying from there, so need to read spec
07:03<Wolf01>prop 0x0A
07:04<Wolf01>One between 0x09 and 0x0B should be enough to show a change
07:05<Wolf01>At least if it tries to change one of the base road types
07:06<Wolf01>Because if it adds a new one, I'm not seeing it
07:09<andythenorth>Wolf01: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8109/example_roadtype.grf
07:09<andythenorth>I haven’t decompiled that with grfcodec to check the properties are set
07:09<andythenorth>but it compiles ok
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07:09<andythenorth>should set the name
07:10<@Alberth>:O silversurferz cars now also seems to include tramz: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1177004#p1177004
07:12<andythenorth>how rare
07:13<andythenorth>someone should make tramz
07:15<Wolf01>Ok, it loads but no change
07:16<Wolf01>Did you change 0x1B?
07:16<Wolf01>Because it says that it what is loaded
07:18<Wolf01>I don't think I have a way to check that at the moment
07:21<Wolf01>case 0x1B: // Name of roadtype (overridden by prop 09 for grf ver < 8) <- also
07:25<Wolf01>I committed the current work, I'll try to merge all the branches in trunk now, so you could be able to pull
07:26<andythenorth>cool
07:33<Wolf01>Slow github is slow
07:39<Wolf01>I'll retry in some hours, github doesn't love me
07:39<Wolf01>If you want to try with grfs just clone locally my dev branch
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08:20<andythenorth>Wolf01: back - was afk :)
08:20<andythenorth>got family here
08:21<Wolf01>Nothing changed yet
08:22<andythenorth>ok
08:23<Wolf01>But I load all the props, so if you want to give a try with different grf stuff you can use my dev branch
08:25<andythenorth>ok I’ll get a clone shortly
08:25<andythenorth>and make a stronger example grf
08:26<Wolf01>Currently I think only menu/toolbar strings are handled
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08:29<andythenorth>Wolf01: we could raise the game, and another type :P
08:34*Wolf01 looks to eat something
08:35<andythenorth>cheese
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08:41<Hadrev>Hello together
08:43<@Alberth>o/
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08:45<andythenorth>we should make some frog vehicles and a frog road
08:48<V453000>slime trails?
08:50<andythenorth>frogs eat slugs
08:50<@Alberth>oh dear
08:51<V453000>._.
08:52<frosch123>yay, another fff about f taking over bugs from ottd :p
08:54<andythenorth>it’s nice
08:54<andythenorth>especially the geometry stuff for trains
08:55<frosch123>https://eu2.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-158-rails-work-in-progress-preview.jpg <- check the distance between the two rails
08:55<frosch123>as it is distorted in various directions :)
08:55<NGC3982>I'm really starting to love Factorio.
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09:02<V453000>frosch123: that's the least of an issue XD
09:05<V453000>the worst thing in factorio is probably the way how the rail metal part collides in junctions
09:05<V453000>in openttd it is similar, maybe even worse
09:05<V453000>in factorio it can at least be helped by separating it into layers
09:05<V453000>in openttd you are fucked
09:05<V453000>still doesn't look like real tracks with holes for "the other direction" but hm
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09:08<@Alberth>openttd was designed at 32 pixels
09:09<V453000>ye
09:09<V453000>the system is what matters, not resolution though :P
09:09<V453000>but yeah
09:09<V453000>the high resolution / rendered stuff makes shit apparent
09:11<Wolf01>Good, I'm less hungry now
09:11<NGC3982>What i don't like is Steam being confused on how to take screenshots of it.
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09:12<V453000>never took screenshots through steam
09:12<V453000>what's the thing?
09:19*andythenorth needs coffee
09:21<andythenorth>Wolf01: what next?
09:22<Wolf01>Trying to make it set the catenary bit
09:22<Wolf01>Powered vs unpowered light rail
09:23<andythenorth>you want the test grf to set that also?
09:23<andythenorth>or to have two types?
09:23<NGC3982>V453000: It's normally easy to add non-Steam games to Steam. For me, it's usefull for screenshots.
09:23<NGC3982>http://skarmdump.henjoh.se/
09:23<Wolf01>Also 2 types would be cool, but for now let's modify the base type
09:24<V453000>hm
09:24<Wolf01>I don't know if the game could handle a new type as is
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09:44<Wolf01>Merge don't work with git, stuck at getting revision range
09:45<Wolf01>I'll try to do that manually
09:45<V453000>we use merge with git
09:45<Wolf01>I'm not able to use git, so I'm using svn over git
09:45<andythenorth>Wolf01: you merging the branches?
09:46<Wolf01>Yes
09:47<andythenorth>I’ll clone your repo
09:47<andythenorth>give me a couple of mins
09:47<andythenorth>or you can merge through the github UI, but meh to that
09:49<Wolf01>I tried with that, but I want more control
09:49<andythenorth>Wolf01: give me push rights on your repo? o_O https://github.com/Wolfolo/NotRoadTypes
09:49<andythenorth>I’ll probably break stuff, but it’s git, it will be fine :P
09:49<Wolf01>Or we could just merge in yours
09:50<Wolf01>But some things need to be changed as the 2 branches aren't compatible
09:50<andythenorth>I don’t know how to merge from remote fork using git in shell
09:50<andythenorth>cba to learn today
09:50<andythenorth>just waiting for download of your repo
09:51<Wolf01>Tortoise just crashed
09:53<Wolf01>Ok, with manual range it works
09:54<andythenorth>what are the .vcxproj files?
09:54<Wolf01>Rebuilt projects for visual studio
09:54<Wolf01>As I added some files
09:56<andythenorth>100% conflicts for all of those :)
09:56<andythenorth>I will ignore them as I don’t know what to do with them
09:56<andythenorth>so road_gui.cpp looks like it needs manual merge? Functions are different
09:56<Wolf01>Yes
09:57<andythenorth>and road_gui.h is just a one line declaration needs changed / decided which to take
09:57<Wolf01>The commit is failing :E
09:57<andythenorth>message?
09:57<Wolf01>It says I have to update first... I already done that
09:58<Wolf01>Also that "File COPY operations are only supported in the same branch"
09:58<andythenorth>interesting
09:58<andythenorth>I just did a straight branch merge dev <- gui
09:58<andythenorth>git co dev, git merge gui
09:59<andythenorth>then resolve the conflicts
10:00<Wolf01>Oh... it seem that the commit is trying to copy an added file from the other branch
10:00<Wolf01>Which isn't updated o_O
10:01<Wolf01>I bet github is doing chinese tortures with the svn clone
10:02<Wolf01>I can't even update the dev branch
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10:19<Wolf01>I should try to define a good function for the tram widget, if no tram is loaded it should gray out and not assert on dropdown length
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10:24<andythenorth>railtypes has similar for if there are no valid vehicles yet
10:25<andythenorth>iirc
10:25<andythenorth>you have to scan the vehicle pool or something
10:25<Wolf01>this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_TN_LTRAILS, !CanBuildVehicleInfrastructure(VEH_TRAM)); <- no effect, road and ltrail have the same key :(
10:25<Wolf01>It must check for the e->info.misc_flags
10:26<Wolf01>FOR_ALL_ENGINES_OF_TYPE(e, VEH_ROAD) { if (!HasBit(e->info.misc_flags, EF_ROAD_TRAM)) continue; }
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10:31<Wolf01>What if I split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM?
10:33<andythenorth>I wondered about that
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10:33<andythenorth>dunno if it’s necessary though
10:34<Wolf01>It would allow me to perform an additional check
10:40<Wolf01>I think we could just use the classic gui for now, as the split needs more work to be bug-free
10:43<andythenorth>keep the branches separate?
10:43<Wolf01>Yes
10:43<andythenorth>seems wise
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10:43<Wolf01>One is just for gui tampering, not newgrf and stuff
10:47<Wolf01>Ok, don't ever consider to split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM
10:50<Wolf01>The problem is that trams seem to have been added in a hurry, or just to not copy/put conditions everywhere in the whole road handling
10:51<Wolf01>Btw, I'll continue with catenary
11:03<Wolf01>return HasBit(GetRoadTypeInfo(roadtype)->powered_roadtypes, RoadTypeToRoadTypes(roadtype)); ????
11:08<andythenorth>trams added in a hurry <- that was the sense I got from reading tram code
11:08<andythenorth>it’s very “just make it work” afaict :)
11:09<Wolf01>I think I couldn't use powered roadtypes, or maybe I set those in the wrong way
11:09<Wolf01>There should alway be catenary, also on roads with the current setting
11:15<Wolf01>For rails, the catenary is a flag
11:15<Wolf01>I could copy that
11:18<Wolf01>Ok, added catenary to tram
11:19<Wolf01>Now I need a grf wich disables catenary, or I could disable it again and a grf could enable it
11:20<Wolf01>prop 0x10 bit 7 set
11:20*Wolf01 goes to play with water
11:23<Wolf01>andythenorth, committed if you vant to give it a try
11:23<Wolf01>*want
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11:25*andythenorth compiles
12:02<andythenorth>hmm, need to extend nmlc some more
12:19<Wolf01>Did you succeed on enabling catenary?
12:49<andythenorth>nah not yet
12:49<andythenorth>will come back to it later though - just needs some functions added
12:49*andythenorth biab
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13:40<supermop>yo
13:43<andythenorth>lo supermop
13:43<supermop>sv on?
13:48<andythenorth>needs moved to the nightly server
13:48<andythenorth>I’ve got a save
13:48<andythenorth>I am cooking right now though :P
13:49<supermop>i might get some pho
13:49<supermop>chilly day here
13:57<andythenorth>hmm
13:57<andythenorth>does NRT get the ability to forbid level crossings as a newgrf property? Same as railtypes?
13:57<andythenorth>frosch123: ^
13:58<andythenorth>might be a case for that?
14:01<andythenorth>Wolf01: again, haven’t decompiled to test this, but it compiles with the catenary flag set http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8110/example_roadtype.grf
14:01<andythenorth>doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though
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14:05<andythenorth>nor is console printing that prop 0x10 bit 7 is set
14:05<andythenorth>prints some other stuff ;)
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14:20<NekoMaster>Well if its not one thing its another when I try to get things done myself... Its like the universe doesn't want me to mod OpenTTD
14:21<andythenorth>this is programming
14:21<andythenorth>it’s how it goes ;)
14:21<NekoMaster>This time its not programing issues >_>
14:21<NekoMaster>Now GIMP doesnt want to let me do anything, so I can't make new sprites or set up sprite sheets
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14:25<NekoMaster>GIMP wont let me cut, paste, delete, or draw... and everything was working fine last night when I made a new sprite
14:26<andythenorth>can’t help with gimp
14:27<NekoMaster>I dunno any other image editor that has pallet support
14:27<andythenorth>what happens if you open a completely new document?
14:27<NekoMaster>Still the same thing
14:27<andythenorth>if you were asking about photoshop, I would say you’d toggled a specific mode
14:27<NekoMaster>Make a new image in GIMP, be it RGB or Indexed
14:27<NekoMaster>I can't afford photoshop
14:27<andythenorth>there are various modes in photoshop that have that behaviour
14:27<andythenorth>my point is that gimp is a photoshop clone
14:28<NekoMaster>I know
14:28<andythenorth>it might have a similar behaviour
14:28<andythenorth>but usually they apply to each document, not the whole app
14:28<NekoMaster>Though I don't remember doing anything special last night when I finished up
14:28<andythenorth>usually triggered by pressing a key, like ‘q’ for quick mask or so
14:28<NekoMaster>Also I dunno how to clear out all of gimps settings
14:30<NekoMaster>ok well i just had to go into the preferances and reset the tool settings to defaults
14:30<NekoMaster>and now I can cut and paste and edit
14:30<NekoMaster>: I
14:30<andythenorth>you toggled some tool mode by accident
14:30<andythenorth>dunno what
14:31<NekoMaster>I wouldn't know either
14:31<NekoMaster>then again my left hand has a tendancy to click/hit things randomly
14:31<andythenorth>NekoMaster: the flipping thing
14:31<andythenorth>how long are your sprites (in 8/8 units)?
14:31<NekoMaster>Anyways I think I have it back to normal now
14:32<NekoMaster>My sprites vary from 6/8 to 9/8 at hte moment
14:32<andythenorth>and have you set the length appropriately in the vehicle props?
14:32<NekoMaster>In other news, I dunno how to get a 9/8 sprite to work properly without clipping into things in front
14:32<NekoMaster>NML will only let me set a max length of 8
14:32<andythenorth>8/8 is the maximum length
14:32<NekoMaster>How is longer trains done?
14:32<andythenorth>you have to break the vehicle into parts, like Iron Horse and CETS do it
14:33<andythenorth>which has some…side effects
14:33<NekoMaster>But NARS has some longer stuff thats not broken up
14:33<andythenorth>must be multi-unit
14:33<NekoMaster>I was thining that perhaps an invisable part could be added
14:33<NekoMaster>but I dunno how to make an articulated vehicle yet
14:33<andythenorth>yes, that’s how Iron Horse and CETs do it
14:34<andythenorth>when I say ‘broken’ up, I don’t mean the sprites ;)
14:34<andythenorth>so a 9/8 vehicle might be 2/8 + 5/8 + 2/8
14:34<andythenorth>or so
14:34<NekoMaster>I was thinking that my 9/8 Turbine sprite would have a 9/8 Sprite which will over hang (but code it as 8/8, and have a 1/8 invisable part in the end to space it out)
14:34<andythenorth>if you add 1/8 you’ll have a nightmare with offsets
14:34<NekoMaster>Hmm
14:34<andythenorth>you are better with 3 vehicles
14:35<andythenorth>ask Eddi|zuHause for advice ;)
14:35<NekoMaster>Then again, does making Articulated vehicles apply to Steam engines as well?
14:35<andythenorth>yes
14:35<NekoMaster>because I plan to add steamers eventually with tenders
14:35<andythenorth>articulated is not hard
14:35<frosch123>andythenorth: sure, but hardly important for a start :)
14:36<NekoMaster>I imagine the articulated code can go into the same NML file with your vehicles?
14:36<andythenorth>frosch123: I am at the point of the nml properties
14:36<andythenorth>NekoMaster: iron-horse.nml
14:36<andythenorth>oops
14:36<andythenorth>NekoMaster: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8111/iron-horse.nml
14:37<NekoMaster>I like keeping my vehicle NML stuff in one file for each engine
14:37<andythenorth>yes
14:37<andythenorth>but for a steam engine with tender, your engine is at least 2 vehicles
14:37<andythenorth>or more if you have a long one, or something weird like a garratt
14:37<andythenorth>you can do the articulated sub-vehicles all in one file
14:38<NekoMaster>The weirdest I'll have is a Mallet type AC6 Cab-Forward
14:38<andythenorth>I don’t know if Iron Horse code is useful, but eh
14:38<NekoMaster>Only problem is that I've only gotten this far after someone gave me some NML to work with
14:38<andythenorth>quite impressed you’ve got this far, you should keep going
14:38<andythenorth>many people don’t get this far
14:38<NekoMaster>Sylf basically started the code for me, and I've just been recycling
14:39<NekoMaster>If it wasn't for sylf I wouldn't have gotten this far
14:39<andythenorth>you will learn skills from this, even if coding isn’t your thing
14:39<NekoMaster>once I understand things I don't mind coding
14:40<NekoMaster>my major issue is that its so hard to understand anything
14:40<andythenorth>‘life'
14:40<NekoMaster>Lol
14:40<andythenorth>do you want to figure out the flipping thing, or is your focus on something else right now?
14:41<NekoMaster>Well it would be nice to figure out how to make my Westing House Bluegoose 9/8 sprite work properly
14:41<NekoMaster>I'm not too worried about flipping for now
14:42<andythenorth>learn how to make an articulated vehicle in that case?
14:42<NekoMaster>Yes
14:42<NekoMaster>that would be helpful
14:42<NekoMaster>I'll need the knowledge for bigger things as well
14:42<NekoMaster>Like the EP4 Little Joe and Great northern W1
14:42<NekoMaster>both are bigger then 8/8
14:42<andythenorth>L190 in iron-horse.nml shows you a switch that handles the articulated callback
14:43<andythenorth>and L423 shows you where the callback is added to the graphics block
14:43<andythenorth>the formatting in the file is horrible, that code is all generated, not written by hand
14:43<NekoMaster>I opened up ironhorse.nml and I can't find l190
14:43<andythenorth>L190
14:43<andythenorth>does notepad tell you the line number you’re on?
14:44<NekoMaster>yeah I searched up L190 and Notepad++ can't find it
14:44<NekoMaster>or you mean Line 190?
14:44<andythenorth>yair
14:44<NekoMaster>derp
14:44<andythenorth>some editors have ‘jump to line #'
14:45<NekoMaster>yeah, Notepad++ has "Go to..." and you can punch in the line number
14:45<NekoMaster>For me to really understand how to get this working, it might be nice if I could have a copy of the Chaplins graphics and vehicle nmls
14:47<andythenorth>the graphics are in here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository
14:47<andythenorth>actually Chaplin is a tank engine, and Iron Horse *always* uses 3 parts for every vehicle even if it’s not longer than 8/8
14:47<andythenorth>because that’s easier to code
14:47<NekoMaster>ahh
14:47<NekoMaster>Are there any vehicles with multiple visable parts?
14:47<andythenorth>but you should be able to figure out the articulated switch
14:47<andythenorth>yes
14:48<NekoMaster>also all the code is in python
14:48<andythenorth>line 2403 - big bertha
14:48<andythenorth>tender engine
14:49<Wolf01><andythenorth> doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though <-I think the flag is wrong, it loads "1" instead of "64"
14:49<Wolf01>At least if I understand how this works
14:50<Wolf01>But I can use another enum just for grf, maybe it's better
14:50*andythenorth biab - eating
14:52<Wolf01>Oh, I didn't merged the part where I used it to change even the GB() function, I can put any value... so 0
14:54<Wolf01>Ok, it seem to work
15:08<NekoMaster>Hmm
15:08<NekoMaster>How would one code a railslug for OPenTTD?
15:08<NekoMaster>make a no-powered engine that provides traction when connected to a diesel?
15:09<andythenorth>complicated switches
15:09<andythenorth>it could be done
15:09<NekoMaster>Is there an easy way to do it?
15:10<NekoMaster>can an attached car or engine copy the traction of the head end locomotive?
15:10<Wolf01>There wasn't one in nars?
15:10<NekoMaster>Nope
15:10<NekoMaster>Slugs are demened superflouse
15:10<andythenorth>you have to detect the ID of the neighbouring vehicle
15:10<andythenorth>and then adjust the power
15:11<andythenorth>you also need to check the grfid to make sure it’s same grf, not some totally other grf :P
15:11<andythenorth>and if you want to allow it to connect to NARS 2 engines, you’d need to check a couple of grfids
15:11<NekoMaster>yeah
15:11<NekoMaster>i guess I should leave that for now until another time
15:12<NekoMaster>im just going back to setting up sprite sheets... i have a headache now from trying to understand new code
15:14<andythenorth>NekoMaster: leave the slug :)
15:14<andythenorth>if you look in iron-horse.nml at cargo_sprinter_switch_graphics_0_1_check_preceding_vehicle_same_id
15:14<andythenorth>you’ll find that there’s a lot of switches that check neighbouring vehicles around there
15:14<andythenorth>but it’s non-trivial
15:14<andythenorth>those are for switching graphics, not power, but same approach would work
15:15<Wolf01>Andy, I don't know how, but would be possible to change props of the second roadtype?
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15:18<Wolf01>Also, I committed the fix, so you can try it yourself
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15:18<Samu>Hi glx I'm on my fx-8150 system again, won't be on the athlon xp 2700+ anytime soon
15:19<Samu>i tried to create a SSE build but openttd crashes
15:20<Samu>the release build crashes, the debug build doesn't crash
15:20<Samu>Unhandled exception at 0x00FD0002 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0002.
15:21<Samu>> openttd.exe!Vehicle::HandleLoading(bool mode) Line 2156 C++
15:22<Samu> this->LeaveStation();
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15:34<andythenorth>Wolf01: it’s only one roadtype so far :)
15:34<andythenorth>I’ll add another shortly
15:38<andythenorth>bah
15:38<andythenorth>grf isn’t valid
15:39<andythenorth>“attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 80)"
15:46<V453000>was modelling a water tanker and suddenly I bought new headphones for home ._.
15:46<V453000>escalated quickly
15:46<Wolf01>:D
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15:54<andythenorth>V453000: sounds pretty standard
15:54<V453000>happens to you with lego?
15:56<andythenorth>trainers
15:57<V453000>trainers?
15:58<andythenorth>I was just checking email, and then I had to buy these http://cdn3.sarenza.net/static/_img/productsV4/0000122997/MD_0000122997_230621_09.jpg?201510021649
15:58<andythenorth>not actually true, andythenorth never checks email
16:01<V453000>XD
16:02<V453000>yeah ... http://www.tweak.dk/images/gallery/tweak_dk_sennheiser_rs_185_07_front_paa_holder_fullsize_1000px.jpg
16:02<andythenorth>now I have to look for new ones
16:07<V453000>gnight
16:12<andythenorth>oops
16:12*andythenorth bought trainers
16:20<andythenorth>bye
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16:55<Samu>Milek7_: hi, i'm testing a server with 240 ais
16:55<Samu>https://www.openttd.org/en/server/101325
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17:18<Milek7_>Samu: how much cpu it uses?
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17:48<Samu>Milek7_: oops, sorry i was watching tv
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17:50<Samu>i'm not sure, it's spiky
17:51<Samu>average 9%
17:52<Samu>spikes to 12.5%
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18:46<Wolf01>'night
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18:59<Samu>i had to stop server
19:00<Samu>was already using 21 GB memory, using the hdd too much
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20:05<NekoMaster>Evening everybody!
20:05<NekoMaster>I've got a "simple" question about a certain locomotive and its recommended use
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22:44<NekoMaster>Ding
22:45<NekoMaster>Anyone alive?
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 02 00:00:43 2016