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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-02

---Logopened Sun Oct 02 00:00:43 2016
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00:22-!-NekoMaster is "purple" on #openttd
00:22<NekoMaster>Anyone home?
00:23<NekoMaster>Why do some of my locomotives in the sorting order go out of order?
00:24<NekoMaster>For Example, my EMD E7 Unit has ID 2001, and my New Haven EP5 has ID 4002, but my EP5 appears above the E7-Unit
00:25<NekoMaster>(also the Vehiclesort.pnml has the ep5 near the bottom and EMD E7 is near the top)
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00:50<NekoMaster>Updated the NARS ADD-ON SET
00:50<NekoMaster>Version r036
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03:33-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
03:34<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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03:34<@Alberth>early as always :)
03:36<andythenorth>6am UK time I woke up :P
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03:43<@Alberth>I did that at 5am UK time, but decided to sleep a bit more :p
03:44<andythenorth>found a tram to draw
03:44<andythenorth>Road Hog ‘Brit’ roster is a bit misleading :P
03:45<andythenorth>cat in a box
03:45*andythenorth wonders if there’ll ever be other Road Hog rosters
03:47<V453000>omg hog economiez
03:47<andythenorth>except…can I be arsed?
03:47<V453000>idk, I am torn on this concept
03:48<V453000>1. it feels like it's nicer to make one thing properly
03:48<andythenorth>it’s useful tactic to avoid bloat
03:48<V453000>2. having the variety of different climates and shit has it's own magic
03:48<V453000>otherwise climate is just reskin of cargoes
03:48<andythenorth>good idea = ‘put that in another roster’, not just add to existing
03:48<andythenorth>but eh, otherwise, no
03:49<andythenorth>for trains it’s worth it, but not RVs
03:54<@Alberth>nobody said you cannot make a roster by a sub-selection of your tramz :p
03:54<@Alberth>sort of firs-everything vs basic-climate
03:55<andythenorth>considered it :)
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03:55<andythenorth>but probably not interesting to me, I like to have all the different types for different cargos
03:56<andythenorth>the idea of rosters was to give a different set of gameplay choices
03:56<andythenorth>fast versus slow and strong or so
03:56<andythenorth>but it’s hard to vary vehicle stats much and still have a good game
03:57<V453000>unless you are nuts? :P
03:57<@Alberth>hmm, how fast can RVs go?
03:57<@Alberth>give small & fast a new meaning :p
03:57<V453000>a retarded lot
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03:58<V453000>hover bus has like 500kmh doesnt it
03:58<@Alberth>nice scalable multi-cargo back-bone :p
03:58<andythenorth>one-piece flow
03:59<andythenorth>the ultimate vehicle is probably 8t, 1/8, 500kmh
03:59<V453000>65k power, 666 capacity?
04:00<andythenorth>someone draw me one more pax tram
04:03<V453000>just take a random train sprite from nuts
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05:29<andythenorth>pax tramz
05:30<andythenorth>every 30 years or so 1870-1990
05:34<@Alberth>less is better, imho :)
05:34<andythenorth>less than in the first screenshot?
05:34<andythenorth>or just generally?
05:35<@Alberth>the "previous" had a lot of different tramz, even with different sizes
05:36<andythenorth>ah some were mail, confusing sorry :D
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05:38<andythenorth>main thing was better visual progression old -> modern :)
05:39<@Alberth>pax_tramz has more variation in doors, which make them look more different imho
05:39<andythenorth>yup good
05:39<@Alberth>assuming the top 5 of "previous" were pax
05:39*andythenorth is only about 10,000 pixels away from next beta
05:41<@Alberth>dropped the black roof also makes it look better, more fresh
05:41<Wolf01>What could I do today for NRT? Sprites? (it's just a copy/paste structure and function from rails)
05:41<Wolf01>Or we could define the features for the 0x10 prob?
05:42<@Alberth>we can, if it involves sprinkles and magic! :p
05:43<Wolf01>Grf should provide catenary for road (trolleybus), I'm sick to see the road icon printed over the road tiles :P
05:43<@Alberth>but basically depends if you want to see stuff moving, I guess
05:44<andythenorth>Wolf01: find out why the new grf I made won’t load?
05:44<Wolf01>I tried only the last one with cattenary bit
05:44<andythenorth>two types
05:45<andythenorth>Fatal: attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 80)
05:45<Wolf01>I'll try it on the afternoon
05:45<andythenorth>I am taking kids to park for an hour or so now
05:48<Wolf01>I'll be back in 2 hours
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05:51<Wolf01>Also I was thinking... why have both "rail" and "elrail" menu items? With different RailTypes you end up having 20 items instead of 5: rail, elrail, third rail, dual power multiplied by slow speed, normal speed, high speed and narrow gauge.. wouldn't it be possible to change the gui (not the spec) to add a powered method compatible with that rail? For example an "add catenary" or "add third
05:51<Wolf01>rail" button in the build rail roolbar?
05:53<Wolf01>It should work like the convert rail tool, but the convert rail converts only between speeds
05:56<Wolf01>In fact, when you add catenary or third rail, you convert it to the other railtype, but without showing to the user that it's another railtype
05:57<Wolf01>Going out now, bbl
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06:17<Milek7_>how to add scrollbar to window?
06:18<Milek7_>i tried adding NWID_VSCROLLBAR widget but now only scrollbar is visible
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06:21<@Alberth>please show the code in a pastebin
06:22<@Alberth>likely, you need a new container, as you need to define where in the window the scrollbar should be added
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06:44<@Alberth>iirc, WT_PANEL is also a container, so you added the scrollbar as content of the panel
06:45<@Alberth>end the panel container before adding the scrollbar
06:45<@Alberth>ie insert a "EndContainter()," line
06:46<@Alberth>note that ysize = 0 makes the panel very thin :)
06:48<Milek7_>thanks, now it works
06:49<@Alberth>panel can be used as just a canvas to draw on, and as a background for more widgets
06:50<Milek7_>hm, but original code don't have endcontainer for panel
06:51<Milek7_>it is valid?
06:52<@Alberth>technically it isn't, but code closes all container when it reaches the end of the array as a safety measure
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07:49<Wolf01>andythenorth, what is different in the 2 roadtypes grf, other than the second roadtype?
08:00<Wolf01>Also, isn't possible to have a stack frame windows instead of that stupid dropdown in VS2015?
08:02<Wolf01>Ok, found it, its well hidden
08:02<@Alberth>second problem solved :)
08:04<Wolf01> call stack, maybe I miss something
08:05<@Alberth>names are not even familiar to me
08:08<Wolf01>Could it be that I don't even try to load sprites for roadtypes?
08:19<andythenorth>Wolf01: the name, and the label, and the catenary flag are different
08:19<Wolf01>Could be the label?
08:20<Wolf01>dbg: [grf] [example_roadtype_two_types.grf:4] RoadTypeReserveInfo: Road type property found 0x1B, num info 1
08:20<Wolf01>dbg: [grf] [example_roadtype_two_types.grf:80] RoadTypeReserveInfo: Road type property found 0x1B, num info 1
08:20<Wolf01>Also, what are "4" and "80"?
08:22<@Alberth>random guess: sprite number?
08:24<Wolf01>As the error shows invalid sprite id 80, yes
08:26<Wolf01>Ok, I have only 1 roadtype in roadtype map
08:27<Wolf01>The second one didn't reserve
08:28<andythenorth>not sure if the grf is valid
08:28*andythenorth has to go out for a few hours
08:29<andythenorth>but the grf should decompile with grfcodec ok
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08:33<Wolf01>Ok, seem to be the label
08:33<Wolf01>Always return INVALID_ROADTYPE when trying to allocate a new roadtype because the label i "0"
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08:38<NGC3982>I think i got the jist of factorio
08:38<NGC3982>Fantastic game
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09:09<V453000>NGC3982: :)
09:13<V453000>frosch123: found out the generation of rough tiles is somehow very weird
09:13<V453000>this particular sprite appears in strange arrays
09:16<Wolf01>Nice, it reminds me the prime numbers distribution map
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09:28<frosch123>V453000: GB(ti->x ^ ti->y, 4, 3)
09:28<frosch123>there are 4 rough land sprites
09:29<frosch123>the graphics are choosen depending on the position on the map, not randomly
09:29<V453000>well okay
09:29<frosch123>we just need a better function at that place
09:29<V453000>but the other types seem to look random
09:29<V453000>the "hole" one is doing -- - - -- --- :)
09:29<frosch123>the decision rough/not rough is random
09:29<frosch123>but if it is rough, then above code decides the 4 versions
09:30<V453000>why isn't it random as well?
09:31<frosch123>wait, there are 8 versions
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09:35<frosch123>182 mib of yeti ...
09:35<V453000>... :_
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09:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27657 trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp (2016-10-02 15:41:56 +0200 )
09:42<frosch123>try next nightly, whether it looks better
09:42<@DorpsGek>-Change: Replace another occurence of the ancient tilehash function with the newer one. This time to make rough land appear more random.
09:43<Samu>new versions ! :)
09:44<frosch123>it's possibly that it looks worse :)
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09:45<frosch123>the newer hash function has a lower frequency, so neighboured tiles are likely to have the same variant
10:03<Samu>who's a compiler expert?
10:06<Samu> - i tried to build a SSE openttd, it crashes a little after reaching main menu
10:08<Samu>visualstudio code generator defaults to SSE2, which works, but i need to make a non-SSE2 build to be able to run on my old cpu Athlon XP 2700+
10:09<Samu>using openttd_vs140.vcxproj
10:13<Samu>forgot to mention, it crashes on the release win32 build, but not on the debug win32 build
10:13<V453000>let's see frosch123 :) thanks
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10:15<Samu>didn't try x64 buids as the athlon xp 2700+ is a 32-bit cpu only t.t doesn't interest me, but i can test it
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10:19<Samu>testing on fx-8150, debug x64 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
10:20<Samu>testing on fx-8150, release x64 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
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10:25<Samu>testing on fx-8150, release Win32 with /arch:SSE - CRASH!
10:27<Samu>testing on fx-8150, debug Win32 with /arch:SSE - does not crash
10:28<Samu>the build that matters crashes, just my luck :(
10:28<Samu>who can help? what can i do?
10:30<Milek7_>where it crashes?
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10:32<Samu>reaches main menu and crashes immediately
10:32<Samu>visual studio points at here: this->LeaveStation();
10:33<Samu>vehicle.cpp line 2156
10:33<Samu>tException thrown at 0x00FD0041 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0041.
10:41<Samu>this is the next statement to execute when this thread returns from the current function.
10:41<Samu>how do i find out what's the current function?
10:42<Samu>> openttd.exe!00fd0041() Unknown - is this the current function?
10:42<Samu>source code unavailable :(
10:44<Samu>disassembly code
10:44<Samu>00FD0041 add byte ptr [eax],al
10:44<Samu>this is where it crashes, no idea what it means
10:48<Milek7_>it crashes in this->LeaveStation() or before?
10:48<Samu>seems to be before that
10:48<Samu>that is the next statement
10:49<Samu>gonna try disable sounds, brb
10:50<Milek7_>this empty virtual function
10:50<Milek7_>probably was optimized out
10:51<Samu>tried with no sound packs
10:51<Samu>still crashes
10:52<Milek7_>what is value of this?
10:53<Samu>+ this 0x0493b688 {tcache={cached_override=0x00000000 <NULL> cached_tilt=false user_def_data=0 '\0' ...} other_multiheaded_part=...} Vehicle * {Train}
10:53<Samu>it's a vehicle cache
10:53<Samu>i think
10:53<Samu>it's a train
10:53<Samu>it has a huge amount of info
10:55<Samu>it's a train at tile 23413
10:56<Milek7_>eax is 0xC0000005?
10:56<Samu>how do I know that?
10:57<Milek7_>there should be window with cpu registers in debugger
10:57<Milek7_>eax, edx, ebx, ...
10:57<Wolf01>Mmmh, InitializeRoadGui() seem to not be called, also for rail there are 2 functions with the same name where changes only the case of Gui -> GUI
11:01<Samu>I see this
11:02<Samu>and this
11:02<Samu>erm, refresh, it's two images
11:08<Milek7_>i don't know
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11:08<Milek7_>maybe check compiling on mingw
11:12<Milek7_>and i just compiled for win32 with /arch:SSE
11:12<Milek7_>and it works
11:12<Samu>ming is better than visual studio?
11:12<Samu>let me search mingw
11:15<Samu>holy crap, that's hell
11:17<Samu>i'm too noob for mingw
11:17<Samu>but let me try
11:20<Samu>am i really downloading a 2012 version?
11:21<Samu>but we're in 2016 is this guide still valid?
11:21<Milek7_>newer should also work
11:21<Milek7_>and also newer libraries
11:25<Milek7_>try that
11:26<Milek7_>if it works i can compile version with other patches
11:29<Samu>windows smartscreen does not like your .exe lol
11:31<Dakkus>Whoa... I am visitin my sister at her music studio... And in one of the studio rooms a friend of ours is playing seriously good music that sounds JUST like TTD music.
11:31<Dakkus>Is it any use if I ask him to donate a few songs for OTTD?
11:31<Dakkus>Because I think he just might. And damn does that music sound like authentic OTTD!
11:31<Samu>sec, lang pack file stuff, is this based on 1.6.1?
11:32<Samu>ok, brb
11:32<Dakkus>(Wonder if this similarity has something to do with me being in Bristol, around Chris Sawyer's home region)
11:33<Samu>it runs!
11:33<Samu>but dpi settings kinda suck
11:35<Samu>problem solved
11:36<Milek7_>hm? how?
11:37<Samu>it's a windows 10 compatibility issue
11:38<Samu>sec, let me find
11:43<Samu>this is outdated
11:43<Milek7_>what patches do you need?
11:43<Samu>Select "Use pre-packaged repository catalogues". there is no such package
11:45<Samu>ahm, none at the moment, I'm not going to use the athlon xp anytime soon, maybe in 4 months
11:45<Samu>that rig is on my old house, i won't go there anytime soon
11:48<Samu>i was only testing if i could build a SSE openttd
11:52<Milek7_>what VS version you used?
11:52<Milek7_>i also compiled this exe with it
11:54<Samu>microsoft visual studio express update 3
11:55<Samu>microsoft visual studio express 2015 version 14.0.25420.01 update 3
11:56<Samu>11,5 MB (12.133.376 bytes)
11:56<Samu>13,0 MB (13.670.400 bytes)
11:56<Samu>meh... i dunno
11:57<Samu>different exe sizes
11:57<Samu>gonna try building 240 ais here
11:57<Samu>think that version is not 32-bit
11:59<Milek7_>openttd_mc_win32.exe: PE32 executable (GUI) Intel 80386, for MS Windows
12:00<Samu>my version, sorry
12:00<Samu>i made a 64-bit version
12:00<Samu>building a 32-bit sse now
12:01<Milek7_>64bit with /arch:SSE?
12:01<Samu>i built your 240 companies as 64-bit with default architecture, which is SSE2
12:02<Samu>now i'm building it as 32-bit with SSE
12:03<Samu>there is a lot of performance warnings
12:03<Samu>but i don't think it matters, it compiles
12:03<Milek7_>i will fix these stupid warning in next version
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12:03<Milek7_>it don't like (bool)something
12:03<Milek7_>it want something != 0
12:04<Milek7_>my exe is compiled with this patch
12:04<Samu>my build 11,5 MB (12.132.864 bytes)
12:05<Samu>yours 11,5 MB (12.133.376 bytes)
12:05<Samu>heh, whatever
12:05<Samu>it's always different, no matter what
12:05<Samu>gonna try run mine
12:06<Samu>funny, it didn't crash
12:06<Samu>so it crashes on trunk, but not on 1.6.1
12:07<Samu>gonna try the real trunk
12:07<Samu>with no patches applied
12:08<Samu>trunk r27657
12:08<Milek7_>msvc linker is terribly slow
12:11<Samu>there are 3 solutions where I change the architecture instructions thing to SSE
12:11<Samu>openttd, settingsgen and strgen
12:11<Samu>ok rebuilding
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12:13<Samu>release win32, almost there... zzz so slow
12:15<Samu>Exception thrown at 0x00FD0041 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0041.
12:15<Samu>well, so 1.6.1 is fine, but trunk is not
12:16<Samu>gonna try removing the opntittle.dat
12:16<Samu>there will be no savegame conversion
12:18<Milek7_>ok, try it
12:18<Milek7_>it works for me
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12:19<Samu>well that means i suck at configuring this thing to make SSE builds
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12:21<Samu>nice, yours works
12:21<Samu>just needs dpi compatibility
12:23<Samu>without opntittle.dat mine doesn't crash, let me try build a vehicle or so, brb
12:24<Samu>crash on map generation
12:25<Samu>[00] openttd 0x0057E371 SQVM::Call + 362 (d:\openttd\trunk\src\3rdparty\squirrel\squirrel\sqvm.cpp:1484)
12:26<Samu>gonna test 1.6.1 on map generation
12:29<andythenorth>is cat tramz
12:32<andythenorth>bloody mail tramz, hard to provide visual variety
12:32<andythenorth>got 3 generations, all v. similar
12:32<Wolf01>So, there's andy
12:33<Wolf01>andythenorth, I don't know why it doesn't load, it seem a problem with the label, but I'm not sure
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12:33<Samu>1.6.1 doesn't crash on map generation
12:33<Samu>i dont get this
12:33<Wolf01>Also, I'm committing some changes
12:34<Samu>r27657 crashes
12:34<Samu>buff r27657
12:35<andythenorth>Wolf01: in a bit, I can try changing props one at a time to isolate the issue
12:35<andythenorth>feeding the kids right now ;)
12:35<Samu>generating a 4096x4096 with 1.6.1 sse build
12:35<Wolf01>I think you should be able at least to test gui sprites and catenary
12:35<Wolf01>But for sprites I'm not sure
12:36<Samu> feedback Error reading register value.
12:37<Samu>nevermind, this is for r27657
12:37<Samu>this error
12:37<Samu>map generated, AIs started playing
12:41<Samu>but on r27657, map was generated, then shortly after... crash
12:41<Samu>crashed on 2nd January
12:42<Samu>> openttd.exe!SQVM::Call(SQObjectPtr & closure, __int64 nparams, __int64 stackbase, SQObjectPtr & outres, unsigned __int64 raiseerror, unsigned __int64 can_suspend) Line 1484 C++
12:44<Samu>Milek7_: how did you configure SSE on visual studio?
12:44<Samu>maybe i'm doing it wrong
12:46<Milek7_>C/C++ -> Code Generation -> Enable Enhanced Instruction Set -> /arch:SSE
12:49<Samu>strange i did the same, did you make it to openttd only?
12:50<Samu>configuration: all configurations
12:50<Samu>platform: all platforms
12:55<andythenorth>ah, here’s the RL tram I already drew
12:55<andythenorth>Milan apparently
12:55<@Alberth>:) good colour
13:12<Samu>doesn't work
13:12<Samu>i have no idea what i'm doing wrong
13:13<Samu>can i report this crash, or it doesn't matter?
13:14<Samu>what the hell, it didn't crash now? :(
13:15<Samu>why u no crash now? :(
13:16<Milek7_>how to use Scrollbar?
13:17<Milek7_>there is SetCount, but where i should set element heigth?
13:17<Samu>oh milek, i can't manually set 240 companies when creating a multiplayer game via gui
13:18<Samu>doesn't let me enter 3 digits
13:18<Samu>i can type 99 though
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13:21<Samu>i think my vcxproj was corrupt, i created a new one
13:21<Samu>now i don't get errors
13:21<Samu>no crashes
13:21<Samu>11,6 MB (12.266.496 bytes) - mine
13:21<Samu>11,7 MB (12.268.544 bytes) - yours
13:22<Wolf01>andythenorth, I'm going to try to set fire to the house, if you are able to do some tests meanwhile... ah for sprites please look at the spec in road.h, while the cursor has offset by 1 because I tried to load the current sprites you provided
13:22<Samu>yours say OpenTTD norev000
13:22<Samu>mine say OpenTTD r27657
13:23<Milek7_>yes, but mine is from git master
13:24<Samu>no idea what that means
13:24<Samu>git master?
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13:24<Samu>git master? git gud!
13:25<Milek7_>Samu: network/network_gui.cpp:1158
13:26<Samu>i suppose git master is above git gud meme
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13:49<Samu>damn Wolf01 i just read your message, lool
13:49<Wolf01>I survived
13:56<Samu>there's problems with your build
13:56<Samu>some AIs are erroring saying Build 0
13:57<Samu>trans need 18520 and your is 0
13:57<Samu>OpenTTD ver 1.7 Rev.0 Build 0
13:57<andythenorth>such mail tram
13:57*andythenorth sorted those out
13:59<Samu>OpenTTD ver 1.7 Build.0 Rev.27657
14:00<Samu>yeah, trans works on mine :p
14:01<Wolf01>It's useless to draw trams without NRT ;)
14:01<andythenorth>it’s useless to draw mining trucks without NRT :P
14:13<andythenorth>Wolf01: openttd.cpp L950?
14:14<Wolf01>How stupid I am from 10 to 10?
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14:18<andythenorth>happens :)
14:18<andythenorth>pair coding :P
14:31<Wolf01>Ok, I don't know what else to do now, I miss some.. things.. which need a revision of the code, but before doing those I would like to have at least this part working
14:38<andythenorth>Wolf01: I am compiling
14:40<Wolf01>DrawRoadBits() is a mess, I need to find a way to be able to define sprites on the grf without defining sprites for all the climates, also layered ones (but I need frosch help here)
14:42<andythenorth>Wolf01: is it now defined to draw catenary *only* if the bit is set? [default tram tracks have no catenary]
14:48<frosch123>does andy's grf have sprites?
14:51<frosch123>can i see it somewhere? :p
14:59<frosch123>it has
14:59<frosch123>Wolf01: do you have something analog to RailTypeMapSpriteGroup?
15:00<Wolf01>There should be RoadTypeMapSpriteGroup
15:02<frosch123>which branch?
15:02<Wolf01>dev, If I didn't change it wrongly
15:03<Wolf01>Yes, dev
15:03<Wolf01>All the VS projects have the same name, and I have at least 4 projects
15:04<frosch123>can you load andy's grf without fatal error?
15:06<frosch123>so, that's the next goal then :)
15:06<Wolf01>Yes, but I don't know if is the grf or the code
15:07<frosch123>65% cloned
15:07<Wolf01>The code looks right, but can't allocate a new roadtype
15:12<andythenorth>but I have an nml fork also
15:12<andythenorth>with the example grf in it
15:12<frosch123>i decoded it to nfo :p
15:15<andythenorth>might not be legit
15:15<frosch123>how do i checkout a branch in git?
15:15<frosch123>or did i even clone it correctly?
15:16<andythenorth>git checkout [branch name]
15:16<andythenorth>or git co if you have the magic config for that
15:17<frosch123>i did git checkout -B dev
15:17<frosch123>i think that created a new branch "dev"
15:17<frosch123>how can i check whether i even pulled it?
15:17<Wolf01>I use git clone --recursive
15:18<andythenorth>git branch
15:18<andythenorth>tells you branches
15:18<andythenorth>usually you get them all if you do a straightforward git clone
15:18<frosch123>so i did not clone it
15:18<andythenorth>try git fetch
15:19<@Alberth>you need a clone for that :p
15:19<frosch123>i did "git clone"
15:19<frosch123>it only gave me master
15:20<@Alberth>git checkout origin/dev if dev is the branch
15:20<@Alberth>you get in detached head state, meaing it won't save your commits
15:21<@Alberth>git branch dev # make local label
15:21<@Alberth>git checkout dev # checkout local label
15:21<@Alberth>latter 2 can be combined, but no idea how
15:22<andythenorth>I never figured that out
15:22<@Alberth>git branch -a # list all branches, including remote ones
15:22<frosch123>i was worried i had to reclone :p
15:23<andythenorth>my most common git irritation is typing ‘git co [new-branch-that-doesn’t-exist-yet]’ :P
15:25<andythenorth>Wolf01: the catenary bit is working
15:26*andythenorth doing one change at a time in the grf
15:27<andythenorth>Wolf01: the grf fails on sprite 4 if I change the label
15:27<andythenorth>with just one roadtype defined in the grf
15:28<Wolf01>So it's related to the label as I thought initially, but how?
15:28<Wolf01>I copied that from rails
15:34<Wolf01>frosch123, AllocateRoadType() in road_cmd.cpp:118, is there something wrong there?
15:38*andythenorth wonders how to debug C++ :P
15:39<andythenorth>let’s skip that for today
15:41<Wolf01>Oh it's not complicated, just "put a breakpoint there and F10 / F11"
15:45<frosch123>well, you only have 2 roadtypes, and they are both used by the default road and tram
15:46<frosch123>let's try "ROADTYPE_END = 16"
15:47<Wolf01>Oh, ok
15:49<Wolf01>I didn't looked at how the railtype enum was structured
15:49<Wolf01>assert_compile(lengthof(road_owner) == ROADTYPE_END);
15:49<Wolf01>In station_cmd
15:50<Wolf01>I think that check should be done in a different way
15:55<frosch123>lots off stuff to change to increase ROADTYPE_END :)
15:55<Wolf01>Uh oh... problems with roadtype owner
15:55<Wolf01>Should I change the switches to loops?
15:56<Wolf01>And ensure only 2 roadypes are on a tile?
15:56<frosch123>hmm, i guess ROADTYPE_END was wrong then
15:56<Wolf01>switch (rt) {
15:56<Wolf01> default: NOT_REACHED();
15:56<Wolf01> case ROADTYPE_ROAD: return (Owner)GB(IsNormalRoadTile(t) ? _m[t].m1 : _me[t].m7, 0, 5);
15:56<Wolf01> case ROADTYPE_TRAM: {
15:56<frosch123>we need ROADTYPE_END = 2, STREETTYPE_END = 16 or so
15:56<Wolf01>This won't work too
15:57<Wolf01>All functions for ownership of road have roadtypes hardcoded
15:57<frosch123>yeah, ownership is based on road/tram
15:57<frosch123>we need STREETTYPE_END = 16
15:58<Wolf01> STREETTYPE_END = 16 and TRAMTYPE_END =16 too
15:58<frosch123>that woudl then requrie splitting _roadtypes into _tramtypes
15:59<frosch123>sounds like chicken/egg :p
16:01<frosch123>so, if we keep road/tram ids separate, the reservation of the label already needs to nkow the type
16:02<frosch123>andythenorth: how does the grf define whether a type is road or tram?
16:03<frosch123>maybe property 0x08: Define label for roadtype, 0x0X: define label for tramtype?
16:04<frosch123>meh, i thought we could postpone the compatibility-stuff to the end :p
16:04<Wolf01>Or compatibility set with base roadtypes?
16:04<Milek7_>how to use scrollbars?
16:04<andythenorth>frosch123: so far there is no definition of that :)
16:05<andythenorth>I figured it would have to be a property
16:05<frosch123>yeah, i think we need two properties to define labels
16:05<andythenorth>not just a flag?
16:05<frosch123>one to create a roadtype, one to create a tramtype
16:05<frosch123>andythenorth: question is whether you are allowed to define a roadtype with the same label as some other tramtype
16:06<frosch123>are labels unique across road/tram, or only within their type?
16:06<andythenorth>unique within type?
16:07<andythenorth>they are otherwise totally orthogonal w.r.t vehicles?
16:07<frosch123>so you can have both a WOLF road, and a WOLF tram
16:07*andythenorth envisages that if overlapping, we end up arguing about for 6 months in forums
16:08<andythenorth>“all labels for tram must be ’T___’”
16:08<andythenorth>“all labels for road must be ‘R____’"
16:08<andythenorth>except on Tuesdays
16:08<andythenorth>and then someone will use T for Trolleybus road
16:08<andythenorth>“zomg sky has fallen, major newgrf author rage quits"
16:09<Wolf01>For road should be RO__, to avoid confusion with RAIL
16:09<andythenorth>for tram, should always be TRAM to be explicit :P
16:10<Wolf01>Nope. Only 4 chars -> uint32
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16:10<andythenorth>see the problem?
16:11<Samu>ROAD road
16:11<Samu>ROAD tram
16:13<frosch123>i wonder, should there be two GRF features?
16:14<frosch123>usually you identify stuff by feature+id
16:14<frosch123>but not we add this road/tram as subfeature
16:14<frosch123>i think road should be 12 and tram 13
16:14<frosch123>two grf features :)
16:16<frosch123>currently I think separate GRF features are best :p
16:16<Samu>trams are trains on roads
16:17<andythenorth>frosch123: +0.5 to separate grf features
16:18<andythenorth>it’s quite a lot of fragmentation, same features, implemented twice
16:18<frosch123>you can share the code
16:18<andythenorth>unless we unify all the functions, but I dunno, I would be lost about unifying parser functions
16:18<frosch123>train/road/ship/aircraft also share lots
16:18<andythenorth>might be andythenorth lack of programming ability :P
16:18<Samu>there are trucks separate from buses
16:19<Samu>why do you separate trams from roads?
16:20<Samu>i mean, what's the idea behind
16:20<Samu>or goal
16:21<andythenorth>frosch123: cleaner to just split them to different features, surely?
16:21*andythenorth is now convinced
16:22<andythenorth>opens the way to splitting ROAD_VEH in future maybe also
16:22<andythenorth>although that might not be beneficial
16:22<andythenorth>eh it ruins my current templating :P
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16:22<Samu>while you're at it, separate intercontinental from large airports
16:23<Samu>along with some aircraft vehicles that look too big to be on a large aiport
16:23<Samu>but not on intercontinental
16:23<frosch123>considering all the compatibiilty properites, which list labels of other things
16:23<frosch123>it makes all the difference whether you can list labels of other things :)
16:25<andythenorth>seems cleaner to me to enforce the separation
16:26<Wolf01>What is prop 0x07?
16:26<frosch123>same as 8, but road/tram swapped
16:27<Wolf01>But props start from 0x08, is it safe?
16:27<frosch123>we just decided for option 3 :p
16:27<frosch123>so, we do not need 7
16:29<Wolf01>So, id 12 = road and 13 = tram
16:30<frosch123>but i think adding ROADTYPE_ROAD/TRAM to GetRoadTypeByLabel and AllocateRoadType is stilll good
16:30<Wolf01>I could put some conditions on the RoadTypeReserveInfo() to avoid entire duplication
16:30<frosch123>essentially we get RoadtypeInfo _roadtypes[ROADTYPE_END][STREETTYPE_END]
16:34<andythenorth>can we do tram later :P
16:34*andythenorth doesn’t want to extend spaghetti into nmlc tonight :)
16:35<frosch123>still needs finding all the places which need to use StreetType instead of RoadType
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16:38<Wolf01>Only 72 places?
16:38<andythenorth>about that many
16:40<Wolf01>Ownership could be left as is, it doesn't need to explode the exact type
16:40<frosch123>it even must stay as is :p
16:41<frosch123>you have no more map bits
16:41<Wolf01>You have them, but Milek7_ could not do anymore 240 players :>
16:45<frosch123>i thought you wanted to store 16 road and 16 tram owners per tile
16:46<Wolf01>That would be cool too, but I would like more different types per tile
16:47<andythenorth>elevated tramway? o_O
16:47<andythenorth>as a type :P
16:48<Wolf01>If you want to rewrite the state machine to allow elevated vehicles
16:48<andythenorth>just offset them
16:48<andythenorth>it’s a third roadtype :P
16:49*andythenorth is not serious
16:49<andythenorth>also subway :P
16:49<Wolf01>It won't behave well in curves
16:49<andythenorth>or tunnels :P
16:50<andythenorth>or when crossing catenary
16:50<Wolf01>Ripped catenary
16:50*andythenorth must bed
16:52<andythenorth>bye :)
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16:52<Wolf01>Do frosch wants to continue or bed too?
16:53<Wolf01>Ok, so I could start anime night and go to see it on bed too :P
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17:06<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> elevated tramway? o_O <- idea is not that bad, but needs transition tiles between elevated and normal tram (and tram to subway)
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>also, it's a bit tricky with the amount of road types on the tile
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>so you could not have an elevated tram pass over a normal tram with road
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>a true new tile layer might be a better idea
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17:09<Wolf01>I have some ideas to have locomotion style rails too, which could be used even for roads
17:12<Wolf01>You need to store start and end point of the segment, and the railtype define which segments you can place
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>well, the idea i had was that you place bridge segments individually, where you can differentiate between single tile bridge segments with low height limit, or larger bridge segments with height limits only where the pillars stand
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>so you have more flexibility if you're only one or two levels above the ground
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>but to span larger valleys you need suspension bridges which can only be straight
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>so a suspension bridge would consist of a starting segment from the bridge head to the pillar, a middle segment from one pillar to the next pillar (possible to repeat this segment), and the reverse of the start segment
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>the segments themselves are fixed (maybe length is configurable like stations)
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>but you can combine the segments as you wish
17:21<Wolf01>Don't forget signals in case of rail
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>the two main questions with this is: how do you store this in the map, and how do you provide the newgrf interface
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>side questions are signals, crossing trackbits between parallel segments, stations, game interface
17:23<Wolf01>Eh, add another array to map
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>one array doesn't suffice
17:23<Wolf01>Add 2, 5, 10
17:23<Wolf01>And you'll get 400MB savegames
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>an idea was that you make flexibly allocated "supertiles" of like 16x16 area, which stores all trackbits of a certain heightlevel
17:24<Wolf01>Or just do OpenLoMo
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>you want adjacent trackbits close by in memory, to aid caching effects when doing pathfinding and stuff
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>so you can't just randomly allocate each bridge segment individually
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>but you also can't allocate a whole map's worth array for every heightlevel, most of which will be air anyway
17:26<Wolf01>Save every track type for every player as bitmap
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17:27<Eddi|zuHause>how is a bitmap different from an array?
17:27<Wolf01>It's the same
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17:45<Samu>tiletype Air
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---Logclosed Mon Oct 03 00:00:44 2016