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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-04

---Logopened Tue Oct 04 00:00:46 2016
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05:12<LordAro>who runs the OpenTTDSVN twitter? i think zephyris? it seems to have got stuck: https://twitter.com/OpenTTDSVN
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05:16<Wolf01>o/
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08:02<Samu>hi
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09:20<goblin>Trains can make one 45° turn without slowing down.
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>they can also make two opposite 45° turns without slowing down
09:21<goblin>^ doesn't seem to be the case for me, I have an AsiaStar locomotive with 8 wagons, and it slows down from 265 to about 200km/h on a 45deg turn
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>are you using realistic acceleration?
09:22<@peter1138>"new" or "old" acceleration?
09:22<@peter1138>heh, it's "realistic" of course haha
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: "new" and "old" are even worse names than "realistic"
09:23<goblin>oops sorry :-) yeah the setting wasn't changed on that save, sorry, was the old one
09:23<@peter1138>hence the quotes
09:43<supermop__>good morning
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10:17<argoneus>good afternoon train friends
10:18<Wolf01>So, it's morning or afternoon?
10:18<goodger>both, and neither
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>schrödinger's noon
10:27<supermop__>don't look
10:27<supermop__>then i can believe its 18:30 and go home
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>well, post-fact society is the new trend
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>"felt" reality is more important than "facts"
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>people "feel" like crime is rising, even though statistics say it's been consistently dropping in the last 20 years
10:32<Wolf01>I feel like I'm alone :(
10:45<goodger>people feel like the UK is disadvantaged by the lisbon treaty
10:45<goodger>but that's mostly because they have no idea what it says
10:52<Samu>wrightai is the most disasterous AI
10:52<Samu>aircraft disasters everywhere
10:52<Samu>uses big planes on small airports
10:54<Samu>unrealistic acceleration
10:54<Samu>faster than bugatti
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>treaties like that are like program code, nobody involved ever reads the whole thing, just the excerpts that concern them
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>like, nobody in here ever read the ENTIRETY of the openttd code
11:01<supermop__>Eddi|zuHause: last week congress here passed a law that apparently only one senator really read
11:01<goodger>welp, hintjens is dead
11:02<goodger>to which I say: bugger.
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>supermop__: the surprise here is that they actually passed a law at all :p
11:02<supermop__>even though the white house, judiciary, military, and most gov't agencies pleaded with them not to pass it
11:02<goodger>justice against sponsors of terrorism bill?
11:03<supermop__>and then immediately congress complained that they didn't know about these unintended consequences and that the white house didn't warn them enough about it
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>supermop__: that's also one of the cases where the "feeling" that these people try to talk them out of it reinforces the will to actually pass it
11:03<goodger>justice against sponsors of terrorism bill.
11:04<goodger>mcdonnell will blame obama for anything, including not vetoing something strongly enough, or something
11:04<supermop__>so now republicans get to sit back and watch as all the soldiers they send to far away countries get put on trial and imprisoned there
11:04<goodger>wouldn't that be something
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's not only about soldiers, it's mainly about capital investments
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>"wait, your multinational company has a subsidiary that builds drone parts? your drone shot this wedding ceremony, we confiscate all your multi-million assets"
11:06<supermop__>yeah
11:06<supermop__>but the republicans like to scream so much about how they love to protect the troops
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>it would be really funny if that actually happened on a large scale
11:07<goodger>not sure how they think they can claim that, considering more american soldiers are diagnosed with PTSD than actually fight
11:07<supermop__>Eddi|zuHause: that amount of complex thought is too much for most of these congressmen to wrap their heads around
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>goodger: again, facts are irrelevant
11:07<goodger>#TakeBackControl
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>goodger: it's about portraying this feeling of "protecting the troops" to people that are not involved with the troops
11:12<Samu>the index 'Contains' does not exist - i lol'ed
11:14<supermop__>keep hoping that this election will destroy that party, but i keep being disappointed
11:16<goblin>changing signal spacing from 2 to 6 did introduce jams on my test track, so it does matter :-)
11:16<goblin>(using length 5.0 trains)
11:17<Samu>nerf trains!
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>i said place signals denser in areas with acceleration (like after a merge, or after a station)
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11:18<goblin>Eddi|zuHause, that test track was just a loop with nothing to slow the trains down
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>well, once one train slows down, all the trains slow down
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>if that occurs on an otherwise block-free network, you have too many trains
11:20<goblin>yup. But if there's more space for it to accelerate (or rather, more space between signals), that alleviates the problem
11:21<goblin>well, the number of trains was kept constant for the duration of the experiment ;-)
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11:23<goblin>http://imgur.com/a/mfpsb using only that right-hand loop atm, it handles 15 trains at full speed with signals spaced every ~2 tiles
11:24<goblin>add a 16th train, jams start
11:24<goblin>change the signal spacing to 6, jams start with 15 trains as well
11:26<goblin>looks like the "Long Reserve PBS Signal" feature request will solve my problem :-)
11:26<goblin>"Signals in tunnels and bridges" would be awesome too
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>i never said "it makes no difference"... the difference is just pretty small
11:29<goblin>ah, yeah, well, agreed, the jams weren't too horrible so it would probably flow well at 13 or 14 trains
11:30<Samu>https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7Ijg1lKmSUn_4vEc-R0 - my raisl
11:30<goblin>still, that track visually looks like it could handle more. If the trains accelerated together as a group, then maybe...
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11:50<omarie>hai
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12:01<argoneus>Eddi|zuHause: does this apply to gender identity as well
12:02<argoneus>that you "believe" you're a girl even though you have a different arsenal
12:02<goodger>wow
12:03<argoneus>not that there's anything inherently wrong with it
12:03<argoneus>just seems odd is all
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12:05<goodger>argoneus: I have a couple of particularly loathsome acquaintances to whom you should say that
12:05<goodger>I mean, I could do with a good laugh
12:06<argoneus>I don't want to pick fights for no reason
12:06<argoneus>it's just like my opinion
12:09<Samu>i just completed a test of 37 AIs using default out-of-the-box installed openttd
12:09<Wolf01><argoneus> that you "believe" you're a girl even though you have a different arsenal <- like being an apache helicopter?
12:10<Wolf01>It looks like thats the trend of this year
12:10<argoneus>kek
12:11<supermop>Wolf01: there have been plenty of trans identifying people here throughout the 20th century
12:11<argoneus>the approach to them was usually "mate you have a problem" instead of "you're so brave!" though
12:11<argoneus>but I digress, this is a channel about trains
12:11<goodger>also trams
12:12<Samu>it's about AIs
12:12<Wolf01>I like trains and trams, but also transport... not really much trans... but that's my opinion
12:12<argoneus>eh, they're nice people for the most part, just like everyone else
12:13<Wolf01>Unless they do it for fame
12:14<Wolf01>I have gay friends, but they won't attend at a gay pride, because that's a carnival
12:16<goodger>I am pretty sure my husband is gay
12:16<Wolf01>Btw, playing with water time :P
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12:40<goblin>maybe trains have gender identity too?
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12:41<@Alberth>o/
12:41<Wolf01>Quak
12:42<frosch123>mola
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13:43<Samu>airport efficiency, I don't think this makes much sense
13:43<@Alberth>it doesn't indeed
13:44<@Alberth>we need new airports, that you can build like trains
13:44<@Alberth>ie build run-way, and terminals
13:44<@Alberth>heliports, hangrs, etc
13:44<Samu>interesting
13:45<Samu>well i'm still gonna post this "airport efficiency" score
13:46<Samu>as for canal efficiency... maybe in the future ais will actually make canals
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13:55<Samu>airport pieces
13:56<Samu>very interesting idea indeed
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14:11<Samu>aiai v95 is better than aiai v97, something's gone wrong
14:11<@Alberth>:)
14:11<Samu>there's a clear road usage deficit with v97
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14:48<Samu>this is really strange
14:49<Samu>some AIs actually do better with inflation turned on
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15:11<user52341>hi there, can i play openttd without mouse? only keyboard.
15:11<@Alberth>tricky, I think
15:12<@Alberth>dragging tracks, building bridges etc is going to be a major problem
15:12<@Alberth>maybe the mobile version would be better suited?
15:13<@Alberth>don't know how they handle lack of mouse there, though
15:16<@Alberth>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=49867
15:17<user52341>ok, thank you
15:20<Milek7_>Alberth: phones have touchscreens ;p
15:21<@Alberth>likely
15:23<Samu>oops, my counting of stations is bad
15:24<@Alberth>simplify your counting: 1, 2, many
15:25<Samu>company lists 2 stations, but detailed performance rating counts 4 stations serviced
15:25<@Alberth>ha :)
15:25<FLHerne>Samu: Oil rigs?
15:26<Samu>nop, bus + truck stations count as 1 when listing, but counts as 2 in the detailed performance rating
15:26<Samu>gelignAIte has a service rate of 200%
15:26<Samu>:(
15:27<Samu>4/2
15:27<@Alberth>sounds good :)
15:28<Samu>think i'm gonna remove serviced stations from the score
15:28<Samu>it's not accurate
15:29<@Alberth>do better counting?
15:30<Samu>that is openttd counting :(
15:33<Samu>i'm finding more flaws on my scoring method, :(
15:33<Samu>grr
15:35<Samu>right, one is the income, the other is the profit, and I'm doing income/profit
15:35<Samu>gelignAIte gets an efficiency of 124%
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15:37<@Alberth>so 1 profit and 100000 income gives me 1000% ?
15:38<@Alberth>and 0 profit can't be calculated :)
15:38<Samu>a better way to do it would be (income-runningcost)/profit, but i'm not in the mood to go back and fix everything
15:39<@Alberth>not profit / income ?
15:41<@Alberth>although you can't get more profit than income :p
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15:41<@Alberth>so you never get above 100%
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16:45<Samu>well, i better start fixing this score
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16:46<Samu>sucks to re-do everything i've done, but it's for the better
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16:54<Samu>there's a miscalculation happening within openttd
16:54<Samu>@calc 98450-48892
16:54<@DorpsGek>Samu: 49558
16:55<Samu>@calc 13220+12082+9859+5691+4535+4166
16:55<@DorpsGek>Samu: 49553
16:55<Samu>doesn't match
16:56<Samu>income - running cost = profit?
16:57<Samu>"profit last year vehicle 1 + profit last year vehicle 2 + profit last year vehicle n + ... + profit last year vehicle 6" != "income last year - running cost last year"
16:57<Samu>why?
16:58<@Rubidium>Samu: add 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 and give the sum. Now write that rounded to the nearest integer
16:59<Samu>@cacl 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7
16:59<Samu>@calc 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7
16:59<@DorpsGek>Samu: 2.1
17:00<Samu>2
17:01<@Rubidium>so... 0.7 + 0.7 + 0.7 = 2.1, but if I write it down roundest to the nearest integer I get 1 + 1 + 1 = 2
17:02<@Rubidium>oh bugger... I made a miscalculation... or didn't I?
17:02<Samu>integers suck
17:03<@Rubidium>it's not the fault of integers
17:04<@Rubidium>it works the same with floating point numbers, e.g. 0.07 + 0.07 + 0.07 = 0.21, but rounded to one decimal it becomes 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.1 = 0.2
17:04<@Rubidium>it's the rounding that happens
17:04<@Rubidium>and for fun... all floating point maths rounds some way or another
17:07<Samu>@calc 49553/49558
17:07<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.999899108116
17:08<Samu>its much easier for me to do income - running cost than calculate all vehicles profits of last year
17:08<Samu>oh well, screw accuracy
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17:18*pinkypie smiles and waves!!! like to chat.....
17:28<Supercheese>*crickets*
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18:47<Samu>i knew this would happen
18:47<Samu>@calc 44608/44609
18:47<@DorpsGek>Samu: 0.999977582999
18:47<Samu>1 vehicle only
18:47<Samu>how could it mismatch :(
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19:43<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 04 20:19:26 2016
---Logopened Tue Oct 04 21:05:18 2016
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21:07<Eddi|zuHause>the german SVTs (late-1930s) had only few driven axles
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21:07<Eddi|zuHause>there are lots of variations for those
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say that until very recently, it was fairly common in MUs that only half of the axles are driven
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>but for engines, it's pretty uncommon to have undriven axles since at least the 1950s
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>there are a few exceptions, generally for axle weight reasons
21:12<sim-al2>DMUs, especially when engines were lower powered, tended to use single axle drive when possible because transmitting power to both axles in a bogie requires a more complicated design
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21:14<sim-al2>hmmm
21:15<sim-al2>To make for that, some of those had two engines
21:16<sim-al2>The Budd RDC, and the various 50's and 60's British DMU classes are good examples
21:20<Eddi|zuHause>the first SVT was built basically like this: it was a 2-part DMU with two diesel-electric engines. the front bogey housed a diesel engine, and had unpowered axles, the middle bogey was the connection between the two wagons, and had two electric engines, which drove the axles individually, and the end bogey had another diesel engine and unpowered axles
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>a later series had this reversed, and some didn't have a connecting bogey, but two sets of bogeys on each wagon
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>there were also 3-part and 4-part versions
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21:22<drac_boy>sorry didn't noticed it froze up again till I tried reply to sim-a12 :p
21:22<drac_boy>anyway as I was going to say... sim-a12 ah geeze I didn't think of the weight in transferring from inside to outside axle - good point, I'll have to remember that too :)
21:23*drac_boy is kinda curious as to why oftc seem to like to just stuck up at rare times but mehs
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>that's on your end
21:23<sim-al2>I know that with Japanese DMUs, they avoided that until the development of the big 12 cylinder engine for the intercity DMUs required it
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21:24<drac_boy>well I dunno about that as the other irc window (not oftc server tho) is still working fine the whole time
21:24<drac_boy>sim-a12 really? interesting, I only know just a bit about the KIHA units but not a lot else
21:25<drac_boy>oh and theres that modern tilting dmu set for operation all the way up north (I forgot the name of that island its on) .. electrification was too costly and same for trackwork so what else but to have a tilting dmu to shave minutes off there and there
21:26<drac_boy>don't think I've heard of tilting dmus in serious operation anywhere else but I could be wrong tho (given my poor attempts when it comes to non-english sites)
21:26<sim-al2>Up to the 60's many units were still being built with the old DMF 17 design, which dated back to the 30's and had reached it's development potential
21:26<sim-al2>I think the max output was around 180hp
21:27<sim-al2>There's tilitng DMUs
21:27<sim-al2>Kiha 261, 281, 283 were, but in recent years it's been disabled
21:27<sim-al2>There's a couple of other DMUs used in west Japan that still do though
21:28<drac_boy>180hp? hmm and if going by two engines per unit .. thats 360hp per carriage which probably isn't too bad for lighter lines
21:28<sim-al2>Yeah, but still there were packaging issues
21:28<drac_boy>I can see that
21:28<Eddi|zuHause>tilting DMUs aren't THAT rare
21:29<sim-al2>Yeah, German VT612 and it's predecessors
21:29<Eddi|zuHause>there was also the ICE-TD
21:29<sim-al2>The air-conditioners in use then needed a generator set, but unfortunatly that needed a good amount of space
21:30<Flygon>QR Tilt Train has Diesel tilting push-pull. Teechically a DMU. :U
21:30<drac_boy>also sim-a12 I recall seeing some dmu consist that was basically a mix of 1-engine and 2-engine units because of the 1-engine one sharing its belly space with something else
21:30<Flygon>But the series is more famous for it's Electric set
21:30<sim-al2>In the intecity DMU classes, the driving cars had it mounted behind the cab, and could power 3 cars
21:30<drac_boy>might had been uk but my memory isn't being helpful now
21:30<sim-al2>But for the Kiha58, it had to be under the floor, which meant removing an engine
21:31<drac_boy>ahh yeah ac systems too ... at least the split systems could usually work with dual-engine units as at least half of the ac system was actually on the roof instead
21:32<sim-al2>Those single engine cars were ok on level lines, but using them even with the twin engines on graded lines meant slow speeds and sometimes even getting stuck
21:32<drac_boy>or in the case of usa .. just use a long chassis to make space (cue budd rdc .. even although a bit of its exhaust system sat on roof instead)
21:32<drac_boy>hmm yep I can imagine that being no fun :-s
21:32<sim-al2>Japan has a smaller loading guage, especially rural lines
21:33<sim-al2>Also I think these air conditioners were standardized with EMUs
21:33<sim-al2>At least partially
21:33<sim-al2>The radiators on the RDC are roof-mounted
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21:34<sim-al2>There's a space in the middle of the car where the coolant lines and exhaust go through to the roof
21:34<drac_boy>sim-a12 yeah I think it often was the early years that had the presence of like 3-8 ac pods on roof per unit .. the amount seem to partially depend on the interior type (especially commuter vs non-commuter)
21:35<sim-al2>Yeah, the first-class cars were the first to be air-conditioned, but the plan was to eventually have fully air-coniditoned trains, especially in the warmer areas
21:36<drac_boy>mm :)
21:36<sim-al2>The earlier air conditoners were fairly small, and so several would be installed, often with the ventilator housings still in place
21:36<sim-al2>Hence all the bumps on the roof
21:36<drac_boy>btw about mixing 1-/2-engine I think it also depend on what kind of drivetrain was in use too
21:37<sim-al2>Later on they moved to larger units, which combined with the removal of the ventilator housings leeds to a smooth roof with a central hump
21:38<sim-al2>Yeah, the 181 series uses a large 12 cylinder engine, which developed a lot more power
21:39<sim-al2>500 hp in early versions, 660 hp in later versions
21:39<drac_boy>for the budd rdc it was one engine per truck with direct drive so its not a surprise that mixing 1- or 2-engine (or in some rare instances an engineless rdc that still had the roof hump) units together as the only negativity was in mixing too much unpowered coaches on hilly routes
21:39<sim-al2>There were no engineless RDCs
21:40<sim-al2>There was a single-engine version with no cabs
21:40<drac_boy>well from factory maybe but some railroads actually stripped them out later on .. no engine but the hump was still there
21:40<drac_boy>and yeah most people think of the budd rdc as an all-seat unit but there were actually other types including all-baggage (no seats!)
21:40<sim-al2>In fact, Budd threatened to not honor the warrenty if the railroad pulled non-powered coaches with RDCs
21:41<sim-al2>Although apparently they could pull a coach or two fairly well
21:41<sim-al2>Don't forget the post office version
21:42<drac_boy>heh well I think budd couldn't do much about it really .. I've found 50-60's dated photos with budd rdc being dead-in-tow behind a PA-1 or so .. to be detached at a certain station and the hydrodrive engaged to motor off on its own side route as the PA-1 kept going on straight
21:42<sim-al2>In later years with some of the early commuter railroads, I imagine many ran with dead engine anyway
21:42<sim-al2>That's different
21:43<sim-al2>As long as it's in neutral, it can be pulled without any problems
21:43<sim-al2>In fact, there's even steam pipe fittings
21:43<sim-al2>Although the engines need to be running for lighting
21:44<drac_boy>also later repowers are a bit amusing. I know that via actually had cummins 600hp diesel engines .. talk about being able to get up to 100kph really fast but in reality the bumpy old rails heading toward hudson bay or further north were usually at a much more sedative speed :)
21:44<sim-al2>The operations manual has a section on setting up an RDC for mid-train use like that
21:45<sim-al2>I think the Dallas commuter rail system also has some repowered units
21:46<drac_boy>about dmu with steam lines .. that seem to remind me of uk .. during the transitional years (if you could call it that) there were a lot of electric heated cars with steam pipe pass-thru .. and in some cases even an electric locomotive with no boiler but still carrying a steam pipe nevertheless
21:47<sim-al2>The RDC setup is interesting, because it can actually use the steam to heat the car, as well as keep the engines and water tanks warm
21:47<sim-al2>Useful for layover protection in cold weather
21:48<drac_boy>of course there are always express-specific boxcars (or goods van in uk english) with steam pipes just so they could be placed behind locomotive rather than at the tail of train
21:50<drac_boy>at least its a good thing they didn't try fit fish vans for 160kph operation hehe ;)
21:50<drac_boy>(imagine the smell)
21:50<sim-al2>Seems to be a fairly common feature of dedicated cars, espeically the various express cargo, RPOs, etc that used to be common here
21:51<sim-al2>Oh yeah I imagine those smelled great....
21:52<sim-al2>It seems that the UK had short wheelbase wagons far longer than anywhere else
21:53<sim-al2>That seems to have been the biggest speed restriction, beyond that fact that so many cars lacked automatic brakes...
21:55<drac_boy>yeah
21:57<drac_boy>btw as I recall the uk deltic also was tested with vacuum brakes and its major defect was rather apparent at the high speed braking attempts
21:57<drac_boy>not too surprised with that
21:58<sim-al2>Yeah, vaccum has more limited storage capacity, and requires larger cylinders and reservoirs
21:59<sim-al2>It made sense with steam enginers as a steam-driven ejector has no moving parts and creates vaccum easily
21:59<sim-al2>But with diesel and electric engines a seperate vaccum-pump is needed
21:59<drac_boy>true. I think it was only during the excursion era that some steam locomotives did have air brake refitted in parallel
22:00<drac_boy>(but maybe I am wrong, I only recall that the modern regulations for mainline running with certain carriers caused the air brake requirement)
22:00<sim-al2>From what reading I've found, it seems that high capacity pumps were needed to charge and recharge vaccum-braked trains quickly
22:01<sim-al2>I think almost all modern rolling stock is air-braked, with only older freight equipment in some countries still vaccum
22:01<sim-al2>Even in the UK from the 60's onward the coaching stock is air-braked
22:01<sim-al2>The Mk1s had vaccum and dual-braked versions IIRC
22:02<drac_boy>btw not related to brakes but there was one very amusing "issue" with the early deltic runs ... train goes into long tunnel under throttle and cue the boiler shutting down ... apparently the engine literally globbed all the air around the roof at that time
22:03<sim-al2>I think it's possible to build a vaccum brake system with equvialent performance to an air-brake system, even at high speeds, but the lower reservoir storage will become a problem with repeated applications and release
22:03<drac_boy>hmm yep
22:04<sim-al2>A lot of those UK diesels had air brakes on the engine itself, even if the train was setup with the vaccum system
22:04<sim-al2>Since air pressure was needed for control anyway
22:05<drac_boy>btw I didn't think I would find a photo of the book online but this is what I have on my shelf http://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780711003224-us-300.jpg interesting thing re the driver waving at the photographer :)
22:05<sim-al2>Yeah, I can see that the Delitics would draw very large amounts of air
22:05<drac_boy>yeah air-engine/vacuum-train is something I think I have heard quite a number of times
22:08<Flygon>Ahh, vacuum train :3
22:08<Flygon>The pre-EMU MU solution!
22:08<Flygon>Shame about the rats
22:08<sim-al2>And the seals
22:09<drac_boy>also I know there were some small railroads (usually narrow gauge, no surprise) through europe that eventually had these rare "brake conversion" wagons inserted between locomotive and the normal train .. even in one case the locomotive was electric but with vacuum brakes (probably didn't want to gimp with a historic locomotive) so the first wagon actually had a pumps setup that converted this into air for the several coaches
22:09<sim-al2>Yeah, I've read that some of the UK 3rd rail railcars could do that
22:10<sim-al2>Like the MLV (a motorized baggage car)
22:10<sim-al2>Seems like a interesting setup to make work
22:13<drac_boy>hmm well dunno if direct links works but sim-a12 about special wagons .. would you like this? http://www.railpictures.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/VIA691323Dec198971.jpg its basically a new-ish high speed diesel locomotive but with the older streamline steam heated wagons .. so cue the speciality built steam car which numbered to quite a few
22:13<sim-al2>Oh looks like India still uses vaccum brakes on a large scale
22:13<drac_boy>and yep thats why theres a lot of small smokes near the ground as thats the steam :p
22:14<sim-al2>And South Africa
22:14<sim-al2>oh wow, LRC
22:14<sim-al2>I didn't know they used those with the older equipment
22:14<drac_boy>and its not just the lrc .. these are much newer .. but still using steam eh?? http://www.michaeltaylor.ca/via/6401-via-80s-mt.jpg
22:15<drac_boy>talk about finding a f40ph with no electric heat :P
22:15<sim-al2>Heh, makes it quieter though
22:15<drac_boy>well if its the pre-genset f40ph then you're correct
22:15<sim-al2>I though the steam-heated cars were used with the ex-CN stuff until the end
22:15<drac_boy>amtrak had the unofficial nickname of Screamer for them because the big v12 engine was noisy with longer trains at station platform
22:15<sim-al2>Yeah, I think the gensets first appeared in the 90's
22:16<sim-al2>v16
22:16<drac_boy>oh .. right .. :)
22:16<drac_boy>also as the generator was off the engine that limited the f40ph's consist length during cold weathers unless you doubleheaded them
22:16<sim-al2>P40 and P42 actually do the same thing, but they are a lot quieter
22:17<sim-al2>Yeah, power is diverted away from traction to power the cars, so the more cars, the lower the traction power...
22:17<drac_boy>btw there is a certain short period of via trains that I like for some reason .. it was sorta the "just a few months after creation of via" so you could see very weird mixes
22:17<sim-al2>And when it gets cold, even worse
22:19<drac_boy>CP RS, CN F5B, VIA F7A, budd streamlined baggage then coach, blue VIA coach, etca
22:19<sim-al2>wow
22:19<drac_boy>basically anything in the passenger yard they "just throw it into the station platform to heck with it!"
22:19<drac_boy>very crazy mixes they had for a short time especially the rare RS units
22:19<sim-al2>Sounds like the Amtrak approach :p
22:20<drac_boy>well for amtrak it was called "rainbow era" which was fitting enough
22:20<sim-al2>Of course, I don;t think Amtrak ever had any Alcos
22:20<drac_boy>anyway sim-a12 this was a lot of fun but I kinda should go to bed soon tho sorry? :)
22:20<sim-al2>Ok gn
22:20<drac_boy>hmm alco and amtrak..one sec..
22:21<sim-al2>Took Amtrak a long time to find a standard locomotivw with the F40PH
22:21<drac_boy>http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelListRR.aspx?id=AMTK they indeed do have a handful of alcos :P
22:21<sim-al2>Lots of interesting semi-failures
22:21<drac_boy>two S2 too .. must had been for busy station shuntings
22:21<drac_boy>anyway goodnight now .. talk again another time ;)
22:21<sim-al2>night
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