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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-07

---Logopened Fri Oct 07 00:00:58 2016
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07:08<Wolf01>I'm going mad trying to building a working Walschaerts valve... with lego
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07:51<argoneus>good morning train friends
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08:28<Samu_>c->months_of_bankruptcy = c->months_of_bankruptcy - 1;
08:28<Samu_>is that the same?
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08:31<Samu_>i think i'm not doing an afterload conversion
08:33<Samu_>something tells me it's not needed
08:37<Samu_>loading an old save of a company with bankrupt data doesn't know how it was triggered
08:37<goodger>Samu_: yes
08:39<Samu_>but i still got a problem
08:39<Samu_>i'm only counting to 9 now, not 10
08:40<Samu_>if the save got c->months_of_bankruptcy == 8, next month it will bankrupt
08:40<Samu_>while with the original code, it would only bankrupt in 2 months
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08:42<Samu_>I wonder... do I really want to reduce the count to 9
08:42<Samu_>or keep it unchanged
08:42<Samu_>count to 10
08:46<Samu_>even if I count to 10, sometimes I gain a month, sometimes I don't, in comparison to the original code
08:47<Samu_>okay, I think I got a tough decision
08:47<Samu_>will keep the count to 10
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08:50<Samu_>no save conversion needed that way
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09:29<Samu_>ST2: hi. I decided against the delay we talked about yesterday
09:30<Samu_>ST2: but i still wonder what would be the impact of this change in a real game with human companies competing
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10:50<Samu_>who's an accountant here?
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11:19<goodger>Samu: I did an A-level in accounting and it seemed to help when I was doing my company's accounts, if that helps
11:19<goodger>what's the question?
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11:25<Samu>question is about what happens first in the real world
11:25<Milek7_>trying to use real world concepts in openttd is bad idea
11:26<Samu>gah, i need to look at yesterday's log, I asked it yesterday
11:27<Samu>the question is when to include inflation when doing calculations at the start of a month
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11:28<Wolf01>Samu, don't make OTTD too much realistic, there's already andy for that
11:28<@Alberth>:O andy is realistic?
11:28<@Alberth>o/ btw
11:29<Samu>currently openttd is subtracting money from infrastructure costs before applying inflation
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>anybody want to buy a transrapid?
11:29<Samu>then inflation takes place, and only then loan interest and "other" category are subtracted from the company's money
11:29<Samu>I think inflation is in a strange place
11:30<Samu>should be either the first or the last
11:30<Samu>infrastructure costs evades inflation adjustments
11:30<Samu>the others don't
11:31<Milek7_>i always play without inflation
11:34<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: is that the lethal transrapid, or one of the others (if applicable)?
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>one of the others, i suppose
11:36<Eddi|zuHause>the damaged one they probably scrapped already
11:39<Wolf01>I think I should leave apart lego and start assembling a real steam engine, it's too much work to make it with plastic which is not so reliable in terms of rigidity
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11:39<Eddi|zuHause>real steam engine requires lots of paperwork, i'm afraid
11:40<@Alberth>depending on size and pressure :)
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>assuming it should be operational, and able to use actual rail tracks :p
11:41<@Alberth>it may be easier to join a group where they try to keep old steam engines running
11:41<Samu>Alberth: about yesterday discussion, i also figured it still makes more sense to have bankruptcy check before applying infrastructure costs
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11:42<Samu>because loan interst and "other" subtractions are already being done after bankruptcy checks
11:42<Samu>only infrastructure costs are not
11:42<@Alberth>and infrastructure costs are not costs?
11:43<@Alberth>ie you don't have to pay those?
11:43<Samu>it is like this: infra costs > check bankruptcy > pay interest + other
11:43<@Alberth>but doing an additional check before is fine, my argumentation is mostly against removing the existing check
11:43<Samu>check bankruptcy is in a bad place
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11:44<Wolf01>Eddi, just 0/S/H0 scale
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds fiddly
11:44<@Alberth>Samu: doing it later is fine too
11:45<@Alberth>but yesterday you moved it to an earlier place rather than a later place
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>for the record: i strongly agree about moving the check
11:46<@Alberth>to where?
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>to before the infrastructure is paid
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>also, all the other daily/monthly costs
11:47<Samu>what about inflation adjustments? when do they happen?
11:47<Eddi|zuHause>if you're positive at the end of the quarter, you should be fine
11:49<Wolf01>Eddi, something like this
11:49<Samu>original code order: infra costs > check bankruptcy > inflation + price adjustments > pay interest + other
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: but even that size steam engine should require some paperwork, so it doesn't blow up in your face
11:51<Samu>my proposition order 1: check bankruptcy > infra costs > pay interest + other > inflation + price adjustments
11:51<Samu>my proposition order 2: check bankruptcy > inflation + price adjustments > infra costs > pay interest + other
11:52<@Alberth>Eddi: that seems like a fair price to keep Wolf in one piece
11:55<Samu>what would be an accountant's saying on this :o
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12:59*andythenorth should draw this small engine
12:59<andythenorth>for something
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13:04<Samu>what do i do about inflation? nobody answered t.t
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13:10<Samu>i'm gonna put inflation at the end
13:10<Samu>does someone oppose ?
13:10<Samu>i'm kinda alone on this
13:11<Wolf01>Do it, if somebody else likes it he could compile with your patch
13:12*andythenorth uses irc as the teddy bear
13:12<andythenorth>the actual answers don’t matter, just forming the question
13:12<@Alberth>diesel train set :)
13:12<andythenorth>Iron Horse south america
13:13<andythenorth>which was started but not finished :P
13:13<andythenorth>maybe I should drop the country idea, and match the rosters to climates
13:13<andythenorth>IH temperate
13:14<Wolf01>NRT! (I can't do it because no pc :( it's still hospitalized)
13:14<@Alberth>Iron Chilean
13:16<Wolf01>Iron Chicken
13:25<Samu>screw my logic
13:26<Samu>EXPENSES_LOAN_INT, EXPENSES_OTHER, EXPENSES_PROPERTY are not affected by inflation
13:26<Samu>i should have known this...
13:27<Samu>sorry all
13:31<Samu>i feel like a total idiot now :(
13:32<Samu>with that said, this patch is still valid
13:33<Samu>no changes needed
13:34<Samu>teddy bear programming that's because sometimes no one says a thing
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14:08<@Alberth>usually it's because you don't actually expect feedback, it's just talking to yourself to figure something out
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14:28*andythenorth ponders
14:36<goodger>Samu: not one of those is a reasonable simulation of real-world financial dealings, so the question is kind of meaningless
14:37<Samu>doesn't matter now goodger, sorry
14:38<Samu>I was wrong all this time
14:55<V453000>Omg andythenorth pondering
14:55<V453000>Mayhem imminent
14:55<V453000>Optimizing compile times by 0.3s in progress? :P
14:56<andythenorth>that’s an idea
14:56*andythenorth was pondering watching trainz videos on youtube
14:56<andythenorth>youtube irritates me
14:56<andythenorth>that’s standard, right?
14:57<Wolf01>Yes, standard
14:57<V453000>XD depends on your personified google search tm
14:58<V453000>Youtube doesnt even dare suggest busslshit to me anymore
14:58<V453000>-s +l :D
14:58<andythenorth>I try to never be logged into YT
14:58<andythenorth>hard…because google
14:59<Samu>woah, ggg cared not to implement this into the core game
14:59<andythenorth>it recommends me endless ‘epic fail’ videos, because I like watching ‘epic win’ videos
14:59<andythenorth>but I fucking hate epic fail stuff, it’s not funny
14:59<Samu>they saved poe hc, good job ggg
15:00<andythenorth>also it recommends me fuckloads of boat, car and truck crash videos
15:00<andythenorth>where people actually die
15:00<andythenorth>really not wanted
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15:27<Wolf01>Andy, seen the latest lego ideas set?
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15:31<andythenorth>fishing house thing?
15:31<andythenorth>I am just on Eurobricks
15:32<andythenorth>looks nice, but I have enough Lego :)
15:32<Wolf01>I would have liked Johnny5
15:32<andythenorth>Still Alive
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16:41<Samu>hmm, there's either a bug with the forum or my browser ....
16:42<Samu>when i select text inside [code] [/code] and then right click, I get a is not responding error and crashes the tab
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16:45<Samu> - that green text
16:45<Samu>the config he posted, can't copy it out
16:47<Wolf01>Absolutely no problem with Edge
16:48<Samu>i'm using Edge :(
16:49<Wolf01>Do you have extensions installed?
16:49<Wolf01>Like pocket or whatever
16:50<Samu>strange, only seems to crash when i select some text, but not other
16:50<Samu>i guess some extension is crashing me the browser
16:51<Samu>select his ip address in connect to ip, that's where i first tried to copy
16:55<Samu>how do I disable the phone number thing from the browser? I don't have a phone, this is a PC
16:55<ST2>use Firefox?!
16:55<Wolf01>Skype maybe
16:55<Samu>i don't have skype, I think, let me check
16:56<Wolf01>Browsers don't have the phone numbers thing by themselves
16:56<Wolf01>It's usually a Skype extension
16:57<Wolf01>Click to call iirc
17:06<Samu>i got the skype preview, just uninstalled it, was that it?
17:06<Wolf01>I think not, I have it too
17:07<Wolf01>Try in the add/remove programs
17:08<Wolf01>Look for anything which contains click to call
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17:15<Samu>so much stuff that windows shares that I don't even use
17:15<Samu>windows apps, I only use 1
17:15<Samu>the email
17:16<Samu>i have no idea what they mean with sharing my email with other apps, meh... i guess i shouldn't bother
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17:18<Wolf01>Uninstalled too much
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17:18<Samu>microsoft edge is an app? ... lel
17:18<Samu>microsoft terminology
17:18<Wolf01>Yes it is
17:19<Wolf01>You still have Internet Explorer buried somewhere if you need it
17:20<Wolf01>But Edge is a UWP app
17:20<Milek7_>win10 is unusable
17:21<Samu>it's stable
17:21<Milek7_>good joke :)
17:21<Samu>i had more trouble with windows 7
17:21<Samu>while everyone liked windows 7
17:21<ST2>Samu: don't say that close to a bunch of Linux users ^^
17:22<Samu>ah, sorry
17:22<Milek7_>one day it suddenly stopped recognizing any usb devices, even keyboard
17:23<Milek7_>and even on virtual machine it was so slow and unstable that i installed windows 7 back
17:23<Wolf01>Strange problems can always happen also with other OSes
17:23<Samu>windows 7 virtual machine sucked on my amd
17:23<Samu>but not on intel
17:24<Wolf01>Lol, Windows 10 slow...
17:24<Samu>didn't try a virtual machine on windows 10 yet
17:25<Samu>i had to install some obscure amd provided patch to have virtual machine to actually boot
17:25<Samu>but then it was kinda sluggish
17:26<Samu>and i couldn't use too much virtual memory
17:26<Samu>think i could only use 512 mb
17:27<Samu>windows 7 was not prepared for bulldozer :(
17:27<Milek7_>1gb is even too little for win xp
17:28<Samu>virtual ram, that is
17:31<Samu>there was some thread affinity issues with some blizzard games, like starcraft 2
17:31<Samu>after insisting with blizzard so much, they finally had a look at it
17:32<Samu>by the time they fixed it, I was already on windows 10, so... meh
17:32<Samu>too late blizzard
17:33<Samu>windows was core parking some bulldozer cores that sc2 was trying to use, resulting in horrid performance drops
17:33<Samu>windows 7*
17:35<Samu>they answered something like they done it like that for compatibility issues with older hyper-threaded core i7's
17:35<Samu>but would take a look
17:37<Milek7_>sad that many games uses directx
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18:26<sim-al2>It work(ed)
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 08 00:00:59 2016