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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-10

---Logopened Mon Oct 10 00:00:02 2016
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03:34<Wolf01>o/
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04:01<Wolf01>V453000, liquid wagon is yours?
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04:34<Wolf01>I'm trying to figure out why a road depot needs an owner for depot and one for road piece
04:36<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't a difference there result in indestructible depots, since you can't bulldoze a depot, only dynamite it?
04:38<Wolf01>Stations use the same but only for roadstops which makes sense
04:40<Wolf01>Maybe this could be abused for drive through depots, for service purpose, not purchasing/stop, like heliports
04:41<Eddi|zuHause>well. what happens if you try to build a depot on a half-tile road owned by someone else/town?
04:41<Wolf01>Right
04:42<Wolf01>There's that case too
04:42<Wolf01>But if you dynamite the depot, you also remove the road bit?
04:42<Wolf01>I never tried that
04:43<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i would expect dynamite to do
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04:45<Wolf01>But if you aren't the road bit owner you shouldn't be allowed to dynamite the tile
04:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that's why i asked about this case.
04:46<Wolf01>Mmmh, I'll think about it, must go out for a commission now
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04:47<Samu>hi
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05:48<V453000>Wolf01: no, Albert's work :) I am working on the rails, they are a total technical hell
05:56<Wolf01>o/
05:57<Samu>so i heard this Hana girl - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHNb1k7YxeA - , and it quickly reminded of Delerium https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUTjXjYuW3g
05:57<Wolf01>Nice, V, it seem you have a lot of work for 0.15
05:57<Samu>plagium much
05:58<V453000>yes, fuckload
05:58<V453000>& most things in hires
05:59<Samu>oh, plagiarism, i dunno the english word for it
06:00<Samu>yes, plagiarism is the correct word, my bad
06:00<Wolf01>I won't surprise if the music is a "stock" music, but even the sing style is the same
06:02<Wolf01>Mmmh, I think I lost the part which tells me "where to put the roadtypes bits"
06:02<Samu>inb4 Delerium invites Hana
06:03<Samu>with vocals like that...
06:03<Wolf01>Spec says m8 which is a typo error, there's m4 free for *clear* road, but I need 8 bits free always
06:03<Samu>and then it's no more plagiarism
06:03<Samu>typical Delerium
06:05<Samu>she has the nerve to call the song Chimera, u know there's a Delerium album called exactly that, Chimaera
06:05<Samu>i guess she really wants it
06:05<Wolf01>Also, I need to recognize an invalid roadtype
06:06<Eddi|zuHause>a road type is invalid if it has no road bits?
06:07<Wolf01>No, even before the use on map
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>put a INVALID in the enum, outside of the usual range? (usually INVALID is -1)
06:09<Wolf01>I thought so, but I don't know how asserts will handle that
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>asserts should be fine
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>you should check for INVALID in most places anyway
06:10<Wolf01>The Pack()/Unpack() should be able to set an "invalid id"
06:10<Eddi|zuHause>why?
06:10<Wolf01>Because I store the identifiers in the array
06:10<Wolf01>And not roadtypes
06:11<Wolf01>Then from the identifiers I can get the roadtypes
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand
06:12<Samu>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6VUa8z1pQw oh what a coincidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc_k_-jRl1w
06:15<Samu>purple hair on both, whatever...
06:15<Samu>i need to shut up
06:16<Wolf01>Eddi, I allocate an array of 16 items for both roads and trams, but I need to tell which items aren't initialized
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>how is that done for railtypes, industries, etc.?
06:19<Wolf01>It uses INVALID_RAILTYPE
06:20<Wolf01>But they only have 1 array, not 2
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>why does that make a difference?
06:20<Wolf01>Because I like to make my life a hell?
06:24<argoneus>good morning train friends
06:28<Samu>i hate trains
06:29<Samu>j/k
06:30<argoneus>banned
06:32<Samu>trains for u https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=75027
06:40<Wolf01>Eddi, the problem is that INVALID_ROADTYPE is 0xFF, but I can't store it in the identifier, so I need to use an identifier which unpacks to INVALID_ROADTYPE + INVALID_ROADSUBTYPE (which could be 0xFF too)
06:41<Wolf01>If I use such identifier, we leave room only for 15 roadtypes instead of 16
06:44<Wolf01>For example, if I ask GetRoadTypeByLabel("ETRM", ROADTYPE_ROAD), which mean I'm looking for an electric tram in roads, it should return an invalid RoadTypeIdentifier
06:45<Eddi|zuHause>i still don't understand why that can't be 0xFF
06:45<Wolf01>Pack() will assert
06:46<Eddi|zuHause>then you need to use 8 bits in pack
06:46<Wolf01>And if I check if it's invalid before Pack(), what "uint8" should I expect?
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07:20<Samu>i think you need a NONE, rather than INVALID
07:23<Samu>electrified trams
07:23<Samu>aren't they all electric
07:29<Wolf01>You could have horse driven trams and even steam/diesel ones
07:29<Wolf01>http://www.picturesofgateshead.co.uk/postcards_trams2/ophss7w.jpg
07:32<Wolf01>Also, none is already based on trambits, if you don't have trambits you have no tram
07:32<Wolf01>But it's not this the problem, the proble is when I need to ask for the roadtype info
07:41<Wolf01>Where's cat?
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>over there -->
07:41<Eddi|zuHause>but as soon as i move, they will jump up and demand food
07:49<Samu>woah, king of salt
07:49<Samu>that would make a terrible meme pic
07:51<Samu>i'm bored today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Phf5ANXYI
07:51<Eddi|zuHause>aw crap, i moved :p
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07:58<Samu>brb
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08:42<Samu>assert (that this is indeed a tram)
08:43<Samu>pre IsTram or something
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10:07<@Alberth>moin
10:37<Wolf01>o/
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11:45<@Alberth>hola
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11:51<frosch123>moi
11:51<Wolf01>Quak
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13:08<Samu>RoadAI finished. I got mixed results
13:08<Samu>in comparison to v3, company value rised slightly
13:08<Samu>there's more vehicles profiting
13:09<Samu>but the average profit is slightly less
13:09<Samu>and road usage efficiency is also less
13:09<Samu>meh, statistics
13:10<Samu>there's nothing standing out, i guess not much changed, if anything
13:10<Samu>differences are within 1%
13:12<Samu>waiting for roadrunner
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13:36<Samu>http://nsis.sourceforge.net/NSIS_False_Positives virustotal.com is there
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13:39<Samu>i guess they associate downloading of OpenGFX OpenSFX OpenMSX to something with malicious intent
13:42<Samu>"the Onion communicates with command and control servers located somewhere inside the anonymous network."
13:44<Samu>i wasn't aware openttd used nsis installer
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27660 trunk/src/lang/portuguese.txt (2016-10-10 19:45:36 +0200 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>portuguese: 7 changes by Samu
13:46<Samu>http://nsis.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/skins/nsis/logo.gif - that icon does not inspire confidence everytime I see it, I'm scared of openttd now :o
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14:52<andythenorth>Tramz!
14:52<Wolf01>Oh, here you are
14:52<Wolf01>Note for andy: props 0x09 to 0x0D are missing from grf, those are the droids I was looking for
14:53<andythenorth>I should get you a working nml :P
14:53<andythenorth>nobody has done nmlc-as-a-web-service? o_O
14:53<andythenorth>Wolf01: I will add them shortly
14:53<andythenorth>assuming it doesn’t need an nmlc patch
14:53<andythenorth>in which case I will add them longly
14:54<Wolf01>Btw, I made some fixes and changes
14:54<Wolf01>Oh, those are just strings, the ones for dropdown, toolbar title and whatever
14:55<andythenorth>ok cool
14:57<Wolf01>I'm trying to make place road work now, it should place a road/tram with catenary but even if the bit is set it doesn't show
14:57<Wolf01>I think it's because it still reference the base one
14:57<Wolf01>Also, where we decided to put the 8 bits for roadtypes?
14:58<andythenorth>m something :P
14:58<Wolf01>I can't remember if m4 or what
14:59<andythenorth>“move the storage to m4 as part of this, and deprecate the two existing road/tram bits”
14:59<andythenorth>that assumes I counted free bits accurately
15:00<andythenorth>possibility I didn’t :P
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15:01<Wolf01>I should trash my old links to pastes
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15:25<andythenorth>Wolf01: try this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8120/example_roadtype_more_strings.grf
15:26<andythenorth>strings are explicitly labelled to match props
15:26<Wolf01>Thanks
15:26<andythenorth>some work for me
15:26<Wolf01>The dropdown one works
15:27<andythenorth>yup
15:27<Wolf01>The toolbar I think is based on the basetype so it's road
15:27<Wolf01>But it's a step forward
15:28<andythenorth>+1
15:30<Wolf01>Ok, at least now I'm able to build bot road and tram, I should do it step by step
15:30<Wolf01>*both
15:36<andythenorth>Wolf01: I wouldn’t buy this, but it looks great :) http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/141463-review-21307-caterham-seven-620r/
15:37<Wolf01>Yes, it has some weird building techniques
15:37<Wolf01>Like the lipsticks to keep the exhaust pipe connected
15:38<Wolf01>\o/ I finally got both tram with catenary and without catenary
15:40<andythenorth>ha ha
15:40<Wolf01>Now I should avoid to overwrite the catenary bit disabling it if I build a road over the tram track
15:40*andythenorth can’t remember if we’re having catenary per both road and tram
15:40<andythenorth>or once per tile
15:40<andythenorth>got notes somewhere
15:41<Wolf01>We initially said multiple catenary tipes
15:41<Wolf01>*types
15:41<andythenorth>yeah
15:43<Wolf01>Ok, seem to work
15:43<Wolf01>I'll commit this
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15:47<Wolf01>Done, you should be able to add a catenary flag to a roadtype
15:55*andythenorth pulls
15:56<andythenorth>no catenary :)
15:56<Wolf01>My second tram type has the catenary
15:57<andythenorth>hmm, I only see one :)
15:57*andythenorth checks
15:58<Wolf01>Because I added one more :P
15:58<Wolf01>I think road doesn't show catenarty yet
16:04<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/a/9c8BP
16:05<Wolf01>Sorry for the jpg :P
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16:11<andythenorth>steam tram time
16:12<Wolf01>Why not a horse driven one?
16:12<andythenorth>also
16:12<andythenorth>or stored energy flywheel tram :P
16:12<Wolf01>:D
16:13<Wolf01>Pull-bakc tram
16:13<Wolf01>*back
16:13<andythenorth>clockwork also
16:13<andythenorth>(toyland) :P
16:13<andythenorth>NRT is great for toyland
16:13<Wolf01>Must be 32bpp, need much detail :P
16:13<andythenorth>hotwheels track
16:13<andythenorth>scalextrics track
16:13<andythenorth>lego track
16:14<Wolf01>We could even trash canals and make little barges on wetroad :D
16:21<Wolf01>Uhm, I need to make a GetRoadTypes function, what should it return? The old one returned "RoadTypes" flags, I have 2 structs
16:24<Wolf01>Where's frosch :(
16:26<andythenorth>iirc, GetRoadTypes should tell if it’s street or light rail on the tile (base type)
16:27<andythenorth>and we need GetTramTypes() and GetStreetTypes()
16:27<andythenorth>or so
16:27<andythenorth>and consumers need updated appropriately
16:29<andythenorth>I have this fragment of code in my notes (out of context now)
16:29<andythenorth>static inline bool HasTramType(rt) { return GetTramType(rt) != ROADTYPES_TRAM_INVALID; }
16:30<andythenorth>:P
16:33<Wolf01>Mmmh
16:34<Wolf01>static inline RoadTypeIdentifier GetRoadTypeRoad(TileIndex t)
16:34<Wolf01>{
16:34<Wolf01> return RoadTypeIdentifier(GB(_m[t].m4, 0, 4));
16:34<Wolf01>}
16:34<Wolf01>I did this
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16:42<andythenorth>Wolf01: I need to sleep, but good progess is good :)
16:46<andythenorth>bye
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17:16<Samu>Microsoft Releases Windows 10 Build 14942: Increases RAM Usage
17:16<Samu>Chrome 55 To Intelligently Reduce Memory Usage By As Much Half, When Needed
17:17<Samu>these news next to each other
17:19<sim-al2>>Service hosts are split into separate processes on PCs with 3.5 GB+ of RAM: If your PC has 3.5+ GB of memory, you may notice an increased number of processes in Task Manager. While this change may look concerning at first glance, many will be excited to find out the motivation behind this change. As the number of preinstalled services grew, they began to get grouped into processes known as service
17:19<sim-al2>hosts (svchost.exe’s) with Windows 2000.
17:20<sim-al2>https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/10/07/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-14942-for-pc/
17:20<sim-al2>Apparently it increases reliability
17:21<Samu>Mafia III requires 8 GB RAM just for the game
17:21<Samu>+ windows increases ram usage
17:21<Samu>thx
17:21<Samu>not that i'm buying that game, but gee
17:22<Samu>they're quickly forcing game systems to standardize 16 GB ram quickly
17:23<Samu>they're also making HDDs suck for gaming
17:23<Samu>with their sub-optimal loading
17:24<Samu>sucks to be poor
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17:42<Samu>so i was thinking
17:42<Samu>what if water tracks were not like rails
17:42<Samu>but like... hmm roads
17:42<Samu>to reduce pathfinder cpu usage
17:42<ST2>or like Rails... gotta love NUTS Wet Rails xD
17:43<Samu>they currently are like raisl
17:44<Wolf01>Rails are like rails
17:45<Samu>each water tile is the same as 6 rail pieces in a tile
17:47<Samu>for pathfinding purposes i guess it doesn't matter,4 road pieces in a tile still have 4 possible directions
17:48<Samu>meh :(i dunno
18:15<FLHerne>Samu: There's a patch for region-based ship pathfinding, which made an impressive difference
18:15<Samu>oh, where
18:15<FLHerne>Forum somewhere
18:16<Samu>gonna try searcin
18:16<FLHerne>I think the simplest way to speed things up would be to just store the next [n] steps per ship
18:17<FLHerne>Currently (unless I missed something buried in all YAPF's templates), each ship has to calculate the entire route to its next order at every tile edge
18:17<FLHerne>It then _throws away_ all but the immediately-next route, because of the junction-on-every-tile thing
18:18<FLHerne>But because ships don't have signals and don't collide, the route never actually changes unless the player alters the landscape or moves a dock/buoy
18:18<FLHerne>So there's an incredible amount of wasted computation
18:18<FLHerne>Even without changing the actual pathfinding algorithm
18:21<FLHerne>(n.b. I looked at this a few years ago, when I was fairly new to C++, so quite possibly wrong somewhere)
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18:25<Samu>i got a ship heavy map, actually several ship heavy maps
18:25<Samu>courtesy of NoNoCAB
18:26<Samu>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58905&hilit=region+based+ship+pathfinding&start=20 this is the topic right?
18:28<FLHerne>Yes
18:28<Samu>is 5000 ships enough?
18:28<Samu>kek
18:29<Samu>gah, that patch is so old it doesn't have a vs_140
18:29<Samu>trunk, revision too old
18:31<Samu>D:\OpenTTD\trunk\projects\settingsgen_vs100.vcxproj : warning : The build tools for Visual Studio 2010 (v100) cannot be found. To build using the Visual Studio 2015 (v140) build tools, either click the Project menu or right-click the solution, and then select "Upgrade Solution...". Install Visual Studio 2010 (v100) to build using the Visual Studio 2010 (v100) build tools.
18:31<Samu>no wai
18:35<Samu>does not build
18:35<Samu>well, i give up
18:37<Samu>conflicts everywhere t.t
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20:02<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 11 00:00:04 2016