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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-28

---Logopened Fri Oct 28 00:00:18 2016
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03:30<Ethereal_Whisper> gnarly rail yard, eh?
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04:14<@Alberth>bit empty, for the amount of track :)
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04:15<@Alberth>why do you have such short platforms? wouldn't longer trains be more efficient here?
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09:56<Ethereal_Whisper>I had a question about MSH's
09:56<Ethereal_Whisper>So let's say that as usual the MSH is a 3-way T junction. You have traffic coming east and west and both turning to the north, towards the station
09:57<Ethereal_Whisper>Is there any reason to prioritize traffic coming in from one direction when the two directions form the MSL?
09:58<Ethereal_Whisper>So let's say that as usual the MSH is a 3-way T junction. You have traffic coming east and west and both turning to the north, towards the station
09:58<Ethereal_Whisper>Here's my example
09:59<Ethereal_Whisper>MSL entering station is eastbound, I have traffic coming in from the north and the south (well I will eventually, I'm in the planning stage of the network and designing this MSH
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10:05<Wolf01>I think you still keep doing the same errors
10:05<Ethereal_Whisper>What did I do this time
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10:06<Wolf01>Read it as "overcomplicate junctions with priorities and too many trains"
10:06<Wolf01>I don't get 50 trains in an entire game
10:06<Wolf01>And still make huge profits
10:09<Ethereal_Whisper>I think my record for number of trains in one game was about 1,200 on a 512x512 map
10:10<Ethereal_Whisper>That was the first game I played where I learned how to build quad track mainlines
10:11<Wolf01>I do that too, but only from the station up to the first junction when I have about half of trains on each line
10:16<Wolf01>V453000, how do you download more than one mod?
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10:43<supermop>i think i am now arguing on forums in support of baldy's boss instead of against
10:45<supermop>even though i started as arguing against
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10:51<@Alberth>hi hi
10:55<supermop>how's it going Alberth ?
10:56<@Alberth>mostly needing some coffee now
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11:08<supermop>me too
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12:32<Ethereal_Whisper>I love it when I accidentally place a backwards signal and my trains head down a random sideline
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>is that better or worse than forgetting a random piece of electrification?
12:34<Ethereal_Whisper>Tiny bit better I'd think... at least in my case, my trains will make it to their destination... eventually.
12:34<Ethereal_Whisper>;Although depending on circumstance, yours might too, they just might take a convoluted route
12:34<Wolf01>And you never played with pipelines, you can't even see what kind of signal you placed
12:39<supermop>easier to just not use signals with pipe
12:39<supermop>and have relay points
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>i still think these "pipes" made all the wrong choices...
12:40<Wolf01>Yes, they need to be done with RoadTypes
12:40<supermop>at least as just a standalone newgrf theey don't impinge on a future pipe working better
12:40<supermop>Wolf01: pipes should be one way only
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>there are certainly two-way pipes
12:41<supermop>and not based on a current waytype
12:41<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: not at the same time unless its two pipes
12:43<supermop>one advantage of a pipe from oil well to terminal is you don't need an empty return pipe, the way you'd need to send empty tanker cars
12:43<supermop>and if two points do need to send liquids in both directions, you should build two pipes
12:44<Wolf01>Agreed, but there's no teleport in OTTD yet
12:45<supermop>pipes, conveyors, bucketlines, logflumes, etc where cargo is carried continuously by the infrastructure should work in that way
12:51<supermop>basically there is no existing mechanic in the game that would approximate it
12:54<supermop>other than some kind of 'pump' in the form of a magic depot that constantly spawns units of carrying capacity at a certain rate, which behave like road vehicles with no orders, picking up cargo where it is waiting, dropping it where accepted, and blindly following the available path forward
12:56<Wolf01>Buy vehicle, cost 1$ -> move $1 per day -> Sell, do this automagically between 2 depots and is done
12:56<Wolf01>Using RoadTypes so cargo could pile up in the line
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12:57<Wolf01>And vehicle can carry 1 unit of cargo
12:57<Wolf01>In case of fluids, 1x100 litres barrel
12:57<Wolf01>Or even less
13:02<Wolf01> nice
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>i've seen the term "4X" all over the place lately, but nobody could explain to me what it means
13:08<Wolf01>expand explore exwhatever...
13:09<Wolf01>"eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate"
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13:14<frosch123>when a bug fix for station walking?
13:15<Wolf01>Qhat does it need to fix?
13:16<frosch123>no idea
13:16<frosch123>i just quoted a mail, though i replaced a screenshot with a noun
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13:16<Wolf01>Answer: "it's by design"
13:17<Wolf01>"You can even do it with less effort using ctrl"
13:18<Wolf01>The catchement area maybe could be fixed, as now it's a huge exploit
13:19<goodger>I would like to share this off-topic photo because I liked it, my apologies in advance
13:20<goodger>it happens every year, Wolf01
13:20<goodger>twice if you move between hemispheres
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause>BAD FEATURE!
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>(where "BAD" stands for "Broken As Designed")
13:46<supermop>BADASS FEATURE
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13:47<Eddi|zuHause>goodger: but that means you could avoid it entirely by that method
13:48<goodger>Eddi|zuHause: it does, but who wants to get hayfever twice?
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14:51<supermop>lego boats today?
14:52<andythenorth>so much not
14:52<andythenorth>so much ISO 27001
14:54<andythenorth>are there pictures somewhere?
14:54<andythenorth>I love the City fans
14:55<andythenorth>they’re on a par with Apple fans
14:55<andythenorth>‘OMG, more police, Lego is dying’
14:55<Wolf01>I got the Caterham and VW Beetle today
14:55<andythenorth>‘OMG, it’s just a laptop, Apple is dying'
14:55<andythenorth>Wolf01: mash them together ;)
14:56<Wolf01>I won't even open them... I still have the Mini MISB
14:56<andythenorth>boring Eurobricks is boring today
14:56<andythenorth>is forums?
14:56*andythenorth looks
14:57<@Alberth>not much
14:57<andythenorth>V453000: YOU MUST BUY SURFACE
14:57<andythenorth>HAS BEEN DECLARED COOL
14:57<andythenorth>DRAW ALL TRAINS IN SURFACE
14:58<andythenorth>forums not much
14:58<Wolf01> <------
14:58<andythenorth>is that what V453000 looks like? :o
15:02<Wolf01>andythenorth, new cargo, wind turbine blades?
15:02<andythenorth>that was going to be a FIRS thing
15:02<andythenorth>‘build a wind farm'
15:02<andythenorth>but eh, nah
15:05<andythenorth>straw poll
15:05<andythenorth>who has 32GB RAM?
15:05<andythenorth>apparently it’s now pretty much mandatory
15:05<Wolf01>16 here
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15:06<@Alberth>I have 16GB too
15:07*andythenorth 16GB
15:07*andythenorth reading mac forums, which are weird
15:08<andythenorth>apparently lack of 32GB Macbook Pro means Apple is dead and the stock will now tank
15:08<andythenorth>weird people who buy a computer in closed ecosystem, from a vendor who is known to be ruthless
15:08<andythenorth>and then they whine about it
15:11<frosch123>computers are dead :)
15:11<andythenorth>have been forever
15:11<frosch123>anyway, the "easy stats" are indeed the same when comparing 2010 and 2016
15:12<Wolf01>Computers are dead until you need a new one
15:12<frosch123>same number of cores, same amount of memory
15:12<@Alberth>you're not supposed to do more complex things nowadays
15:12<frosch123>ssd are bigger, and multi-display is more common, but that's about it
15:16*andythenorth wonders how people are still managing to need more than 16GB frequently
15:16<andythenorth>on a laptop
15:17<Wolf01> nice accident
15:17<andythenorth>could have been brutal :o
15:18<Wolf01>Proven that Balrog's whip can't cut steel beams
15:18<Wolf01>Can't cut Gandalf's leg too
15:18<andythenorth>the number of times I have found that my computer is slow because it’s in swap….
15:19<Wolf01>How the fuck do you even manage to swap with 16GB?
15:19<andythenorth>yeah never
15:19<andythenorth>maybe running multiple Windows VMs
15:19<andythenorth>but not noticeably
15:19<frosch123>i have that issue on an 8gb machine regulary :)
15:19<andythenorth>plus…err SSD with SATA 3 or something
15:20<Wolf01>I did... memory leak on my game 2 days ago, tried to allocate 40GB in 6 seconds
15:20<andythenorth>numpty on forum complains “I have to restart my mac every 2-3 days because it’s out of memory”
15:20<andythenorth>err, no, restart Firefox :P
15:20<frosch123>though i never quite figured out the point of swapping
15:20<frosch123>once the swapping starts the machine is useless
15:20<andythenorth>as usual, reading the wrong forum causes andythenorth rant
15:21<frosch123>andythenorth: that is definitely a reason to buy more memory
15:22<frosch123>so it only runs out after 10 days
15:23<frosch123>btw. what are apple updates like?
15:23<andythenorth>OS ones? Or hardware?
15:23<frosch123>are they like windows with at least one 1 reboot, sometimes 2, or even 3?
15:24<andythenorth>they are very variable
15:24<frosch123>or are they like linux, reboot only if kernel updates
15:24<andythenorth>usually only reboot for kernel or similar
15:24<andythenorth>but they can be sketchy
15:24<andythenorth>I installed one on Tuesday that bricked my mac
15:24<andythenorth>and that is not rare enough
15:25<andythenorth>7 hours faffing with backups
15:25<andythenorth>waste of time
15:25<frosch123>i thought that only happens with smartphones :)
15:25<andythenorth>if only
15:26*andythenorth wonders what the mac fans expected in a new laptop
15:26<andythenorth>they all seem very sad
15:26<Wolf01>Longer power cord?
15:26<andythenorth>power cord with emojis?
15:28*andythenorth would have settled for (a) same or longer battery life, not shorter (b) no 20% price hike
15:28<Wolf01>To not pay for standard features as accessories?
15:29<Wolf01>Oh, my bad, that's Apple motto: less is more
15:29<frosch123>do laptop batteries also burn regulary? or is that only a smartphone thing?
15:30<frosch123>also, are tablets finally dead? or did someone find some use?
15:31<@Alberth>maybe it's a function where the chance increases as the laptop approaches smartphone size?
15:31<frosch123>also do laptops still have cd drives?
15:32<andythenorth>tablets are for entertaining children
15:32<andythenorth>and for grandparents
15:32<frosch123>interesting point
15:32<Wolf01>Children and people which don't need a pc to do the same things
15:32<frosch123>can we have some outdoor tablet then?
15:32<frosch123>sandbox safe?
15:33<andythenorth>must be one
15:33<frosch123>Wolf01: i thought that's what a ps4 is for
15:33<andythenorth>ipad is surprisingly robust
15:33<andythenorth>in a good case
15:33<andythenorth>we have one that’s been outside, on planes, by the pool, in bed, thrown down the stairs, dropped etc
15:34<andythenorth>slept on, trodden on, fought over
15:35<@Alberth>ipad test center :)
15:35<andythenorth>apparently if Jobs was still alive, the new Macbook would *definitely* have been two sheets of glass, both displays, but with a full keyboard with real clicky keys, every kind of port, 64GB, a desktop class GPU, 10 hour battery life and a 5K display
15:35<andythenorth>for the same price as the previous model
15:36<andythenorth>all “I’ve been using macs for 30 years and now I’m seriously considering switching” people
15:36<frosch123>"every kind of port" is interesting, given that all of Jobs has always been "minimalism"
15:39<frosch123>i think i read that some years ago
15:39<andythenorth>still, it’s not all gloom and doom:
15:39<frosch123>probably also from this chanel :)
15:39<andythenorth>new mac charges via the thunderbolt port
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15:39<andythenorth>exploits galore
15:40<andythenorth>in principle, you can no longer trust mains electricity
15:40<andythenorth>proper tinfoil hat land
15:48<Wolf01>BTW, full Surface Studio video
15:52<frosch123>doesn't look like paintbrush
15:53<andythenorth>I don’t think it will fit in my bag
15:53<andythenorth>how much battery life?
15:53<Wolf01>I don't think is battery powered
15:55*andythenorth wonders why the mac people are comparing the price of it to macbooks
15:55<frosch123>is it cloud powered? and does it transfer the rights of what you draw to ms?
15:55<Wolf01>Win 10 does that already, no need for new hardware
15:55<andythenorth>how long is the battery life on a cloud?
15:57<frosch123>andythenorth: maybe they are comparing the keyboard of the two
15:58<frosch123>i mean that surface thing does not look like it has an ESC key
15:59<frosch123>though, given that we are back to one input device again, maybe we will regain a scroll lock :p
15:59<Wolf01>Bluetooth keyboard, also you don't even need a keyboard with windows
15:59<andythenorth>frosch123: innovation :)
15:59<frosch123>Wolf01: windows is responsible for at least 3 completely useless keys
16:00<Wolf01>Scroll lock, context menu and?
16:00<frosch123>that is 3 out of the top 5 completely useless keys
16:00<frosch123>2xwin, context, scroll lock, pause
16:00*andythenorth wonders what these idiots actually want :)
16:01<andythenorth>they don’t like tablets
16:01<frosch123>"print screen" has a usecase as hotkey for launching a single program
16:01<Wolf01>I even found a way to use scroll lock on MS softwares
16:01<frosch123>(though it is kind of specific)
16:01<Wolf01>I don't remember what
16:01<Wolf01>Win+Pause takes screenshots now
16:02<frosch123>oh, i forgot caps lock in the list
16:03<frosch123>though maybe that one is more annoying than useless :p
16:03<andythenorth>mine still has a little green light in it :)
16:03<andythenorth>must be an actual LED under there
16:06<andythenorth>I will have to get a USB escape key if I get the new mac
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16:07<frosch123>you could map caps lock to esc
16:07<frosch123>that may also make vi useful again
16:08<frosch123>same keyboard layout as it was developed for
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16:08<frosch123>yeah, that must be it. the new mac is for optimising vi usage
16:09<Wolf01> this one?
16:09<andythenorth>for mac and surface users
16:10<andythenorth>I have stumbled into a forum where “Apple is dead because they have stopped making monitors"
16:10<Wolf01>You don't need the ESC key on windows
16:10<andythenorth>what kind of numpty ever bought an Apple display :o
16:10<Wolf01>I only use it to exit my game
16:10<frosch123>andythenorth: for some time they were the only ones building 30 inch screens
16:11<andythenorth>about 15 years ago :)
16:11<andythenorth>when even windows users bought them
16:12*andythenorth uses ESC all the time in OpenTTD, but can’t remember why
16:12<frosch123>to deselct the curren tool
16:12<frosch123>in f it's q though
16:12<frosch123>f doesn't use esc
16:14*andythenorth wonders if a £200 premium over old model is worth it for fingerprint ID
16:14<andythenorth>I have to use a password with 44 bits of entropy…because infosec
16:14<andythenorth>and I have to lock laptop if unattended, even briefly, anywhere
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16:15<andythenorth>I usually type it wrong, and I type it tens of times per day :P
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16:17<Wolf01>They should make 2 versions of ISO 27001, the lite one for companies which don't have governative secrets or manage users bank accounts or medical data, and the current one for where you need max security
16:18<andythenorth>you can choose to not apply control
16:18<andythenorth>controls *
16:18<Wolf01>Which is bad
16:18<andythenorth>you just have to have a risk profile
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16:18<andythenorth>dunno, there’s this standard in the UK called Cyber Essentials
16:18<andythenorth>which is supposed to be like ISO 27001 Lite
16:19<andythenorth>and is mosly terrible
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16:22<Wolf01>Sometimes security is strange, like with PPE, my mother does blood samples and need to use gloves. Usually you don't even get in contact with the person blood, but it might happen that the person moves and the needle slips, and YOU get punctured, gloves or not.
16:27<andythenorth>can’t mitigate all risks :)
16:28<andythenorth>probably can mitigate needlestick, with the right needles
16:28<andythenorth>but expense...
16:31<Wolf01>Nah, just sedate the patient so he can't move
16:38<andythenorth>mmm sedation
16:38<andythenorth>sedation is good
16:38*andythenorth should go to bed
16:38<Wolf01>Me too
16:38<Wolf01>But I'll go 3 hours later
16:40*andythenorth learns about USB-C and USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt
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17:37<Youbi>Hello! I’m trying to run openttd (built from nightly). But it claims that I miss a graphics set.
17:37<Youbi>So I built OpenGFX, and put the resulting tar archive in my ~/.openttd/baseset dir
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17:39<Youbi>And now, when I run openttd, it still claims that I miss a graphics set, but before that, it tells me that there is :
17:39<Youbi>No MD5 checksum specified for: ogfx1_base.grf
17:39<Youbi>How can I specify the checksum for that file?
17:41<Youbi>Should I build OpenGFX from it’s latest source revision?
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>you didn't copy the .obg file
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>or it didn't generate properly
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>maybe try downloading the already-made file?
17:47<Youbi>Eddi|zuHause: it works!
17:47<Youbi>I tried the already-made file.
17:47<Youbi>I was stupid, I thought that it wouldn’t run because I’m on a libmusl based system. But there is nothing to do with it.
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>the .grf files are universal for all platforms
17:49<Youbi>Thank for your help :)
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 29 00:00:20 2016