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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-10-29

---Logopened Sat Oct 29 00:00:20 2016
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04:55<Ethereal_Whisper>I jammed up one of my ML's lanes because I de-electrified my network and thought I had gotten rid of all the electric locos
04:55<Ethereal_Whisper>I guess not lol
04:56<@Alberth>good way to find them :p
05:03*andythenorth should Hog
05:03<andythenorth>maybe later
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05:25<andythenorth>then can have hover-craft only routes
05:25*andythenorth biab :P
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05:26<Wolf01>Throws the stone and quit
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06:03<Wolf01>Ho! Now that I've seen it better, Apple removed all the function keys... how is possible to live without all the function keys?
06:04<@Alberth>My only use of function keys is f1 for pausing openttd
06:04<@Alberth>which I agree should be a real key for a keyboard
06:05<Wolf01>F5 to refresh a page?
06:05<@Alberth>hmm, google chrome may need that
06:05<@Alberth>but normally never use that
06:06<Wolf01>F5/F8/F9 to quick save/reload in games?
06:06<@Alberth>it is?
06:06<Wolf01>F10 to open Starcraft menu
06:06<@Alberth>I play only a few games
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06:07<@Alberth>ever used scroll lock?
06:07<@Alberth>hmm, I also seem to have a "pause/break" key, no idea what's that for
06:08<@Alberth>"insert" seems useless too, to me
06:08<Wolf01>Scroll lock is used in Excel iirc
06:08<@Alberth>just type ctrl+s ?
06:09<Wolf01>Yes, it is used in excel, you scroll the sheet or move through cells
06:09<@Alberth>standard code for it
06:09<@Alberth>hmm, maybe not, it's suspend input, iirc
06:10<@Alberth>which does have the same effect in a terminal :)
06:13<Wolf01>The only useless keys I have are most of the 18 macro keys on my keyboard... because I don't remember which function I assigned to them
06:18<Wolf01>I want one of those keyboards with lcd macro keys
06:18<Wolf01>Oh, that's not even all, I can switch between 3 profiles, so I have 54 macro keys
06:19<Wolf01>Also every software could have it's own keys, infinite possibilities
06:20<@Alberth>what kind of macros do you have under a key?
06:22<Wolf01>Every kind of stuff you can even imagine
06:22<Wolf01>From "run a software" to "write an entire poem typing random keys"
06:23<@Alberth>ah, small script-like things, where I'd write a bash or python script for in $HOME/bin
06:24<Wolf01> omg... new Windows Paint3D
06:24<@Alberth>makes sense
06:25<@Alberth>not sure it's of any use though
06:25<@Alberth>but people will find applications for it :)
06:27<@Alberth>bleh, one morning wasted on trying to merge a long patch queue with new master changes
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06:38<Youbi>Hello! I built OpenTTD from source (r27669), and when I save the game, openttd crashes. Should I report it as a bug?
06:41<@Alberth>where does it crash?
06:42<@Alberth>did you configure it correctly?
06:42<Youbi>I think so. I just disabled lzo2 which is used to load old savegames.
06:44<Youbi>It crashes when I click on “Save”
06:44<@Alberth>I mean, in what function, at what line? ie a readable stack trace
06:44<@Alberth>"Save" runs a few zillions lines of code
06:45<Youbi>Yep I ran strace, does it produce a correct stack trace?
06:45<@Alberth>strace does system call tracing
06:46<@Alberth>I mean use a debugger like gdb, trigger the crash, and get a stack of functions that are called at that time
06:46<@Alberth>you do need a debug build, to get readable symbols, at least at Linux
06:47<@Alberth>no patches applied?
06:48<@Alberth>alternatively, get a core dump when it crashes, and analyze that in a debugger or crash-analyzer or whatever you have
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07:03<Youbi>Alberth: ok I will try gdb :)
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07:20<argoneus>good morning train friends
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08:11<Wolf01>I need to decide how much headache I want today
08:13<@Alberth>dilemma :)
08:22<Wolf01>Scene state machine: I can register a scene only once in the SceneManager and retrieve it by type, to move to another scene I need to set it as "active", then do SceneManager::Next(), which looks for the next active scene, deactivate the current one, loads the new one and unloads the current one
08:22<Wolf01>Does it make sense?
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08:23<@Alberth>why not give the new active scene to the SceneManager directly?
08:23<@Alberth>"I want this one" :)
08:24<Wolf01>I could do ::Next(typeof(NewScene))
08:24<Wolf01>But not already active, or I'll have 2 running loops
08:25<@Alberth>what I mean is "which looks for the next active scene" is a bit weird if you already found it
08:26<Wolf01>Because I might have something to do before ::Next(), like an easing
08:26<Wolf01>And at the end of the easing it does ::Next()
08:27<Wolf01>I could set the type in a private variable and pass it to ::Next() at that time
08:27<Wolf01>So the SceneManager doesn't need to look for it
08:28<@Alberth>would clarify who should decide the next scene, I think
08:29<@Alberth>as well as avoiding double work
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08:30<Wolf01>The current scene decides where it wants to go, think about a menu
08:30<Wolf01>The SceneManager moves, updates, loads, unloads, pauses...
08:30<@Alberth>you can have multiple exits from a single scene
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08:31<@Alberth>you have an "active_scene" pointer-ish variable in the scene manager?
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08:31<@Alberth>that would eliminate the possibility to have 2 running scenese
08:31<@Alberth>hi hi andy
08:31<Wolf01>Not at the moment, but I'm considering it to do it
08:35<Wolf01>As it is now, it is able to run all the active scenes in the Update() loop
08:36<Wolf01>This to allow to load modal scenes (like a menu)
08:36<Wolf01>While keeping the underlying scenes paused but not unloades
08:42<Wolf01>I could create linked lists for easings, so I will have curScene -> easingScene -> otherScene, instead of having the easing inside the scene
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08:42<@Alberth>makes scene management more complicated
08:43<Wolf01>Not really
08:43<@Alberth>or you get a lot of the same-ish easingScenes, perhaps?
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08:43<@Alberth>actually, you can do the above split now too
08:44<Wolf01>Yes, like EntranceFromLeftEasing, EntranceFromRightEasing, DarkenEasing...
08:44<@Alberth>you just get more scenes
08:44<@Alberth>doesn't need a linked list
08:45<Wolf01>LinkedList has AddAfter()/AddBefore() methods
08:47<Wolf01>They might be useful
08:50<andythenorth>^ not happy with that
08:50<andythenorth>it’s RH, but copied from somewhere, maybe FISH
08:50<andythenorth>doesn’t set good buy costs
08:52<andythenorth>notably pax trams are coming out relatively cheap compared to buses
08:52<andythenorth>on per passenger basis
08:52<Wolf01>Now I'm undecided about the parameters type :E ::GetScene(Type scene) -> .GetScene(typeof(MyScene)) or ::GetScene<T>() -> .GetScene<MyScene>()
08:53<andythenorth>that formula looks like it might have been Iron Horse, where engines don’t have capacity, mostly
08:53<Wolf01>andythenorth, add consist_capacity_points to buy_cost?
08:54<@Alberth>Wolf01: you have 1 scene of each type?
08:54<Wolf01>Yes, I said that before
08:54<andythenorth>Wolf01: seems easiest eh?
08:55<@Alberth>I don't see the advantage of having a type, tbh, but ymmv
08:55<Wolf01>Just make both properties the same, one with base_buy_cost and the other with base_running_cost
08:56<Wolf01>The type is the key of the dictionary
08:57<@Alberth>ie why is there a dictionary?
08:57<Wolf01>To hold the registered scenes
08:57<@Alberth>andythenorth: maybe dump the values of the various sub-parts for the various vehicles, to get an impression of their values?
08:57<Wolf01>I register all the scenes at game initialization
08:58<andythenorth>Alberth: possibly, I am trying first just putting capacity in :)
08:58<andythenorth>might be a big enough hammer for this nail
08:58<@Alberth>how do you look for a new scene? using the same dictionary?
08:58<@Alberth>maybe the dictionary is at the wrong place?
08:59<@Alberth>and you need a scene storage or so?
08:59<Wolf01>There isn't a "new" scene, you can only pick one of the other inactive scenes
08:59<@Alberth>ok how do you find one of the other inactive scenes?
08:59<Wolf01>By it's type
09:00<Wolf01>Dictionary [Type, instance]
09:00<@Alberth>so you don't actually have a scene, only a type, ie <T> is still a type
09:00<Wolf01>As lists/arrays only allow int indexes
09:00<andythenorth>ha ha, one pax tram now costs more than high speed electric engine in Iron Horse
09:00<Wolf01>And I don't want to look up for the index
09:00<@Alberth>it's weird to name it a type, as 'type' implies you have more than one of them :)
09:01<Wolf01>Dictionary [MyScene, instance_of_MyScene], [MenuScene, instance_of_MenuScene] and so on
09:01<@Alberth>well, just pick the simplest solution, we discussed it long enough without getting anywhere
09:02<andythenorth>code something, delete later
09:02*andythenorth may not be helping
09:02<@Alberth>a shitload of singletons :)
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09:02<andythenorth>140 pax tram has more power than 400 pax metro
09:02<andythenorth>but metros don’t go up long hills...
09:03<andythenorth>consistency across sets :P
09:03<@Alberth>140 pax tram has more room for the engine :p
09:03<Wolf01>Yes, I have single instance scenes
09:03<andythenorth>can you just access them by name? o_O
09:03<Wolf01>I don't see the point of having multiple instances of the same exact scene
09:04*andythenorth has no context
09:04*andythenorth logs
09:04<Wolf01>Yes, the Type *is* the name
09:05*andythenorth will stay out of it :)
09:06<Wolf01>Even the UWP page manager works like that, but they use typeof(class) instead of <T>
09:07<Wolf01>But for component services I use <T> and I would like to mantain the same for scenes too
09:08<Wolf01>It's just moving the typeof() inside the method instead of passing it as parameter
09:08<andythenorth>why don’t you want to look up the index?
09:08<andythenorth>other than that always seems clunky?
09:08<andythenorth>I suspect the performance hit is negligible
09:09<Wolf01>Because I already know the name
09:10<andythenorth>so no ‘for i in array, if == the_name, return i’ stuff
09:10<@Alberth>I think a lot of confusion arises from the word 'Type', rather than 'name'
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09:10<Wolf01>Type is the class name
09:10<Wolf01>I don't need other names, one class = one scene
09:11<@Alberth>no, Type is the class, normally
09:11<@Alberth>ie "Object" vs Object
09:11<Wolf01>Not in C#
09:11<@Alberth>I would really hope it is
09:11<andythenorth>afaict, this is the same shaped problem as I have in newgrf
09:11<andythenorth>I frequently have to look up vehicle objects, or industry objects or whatever
09:11<@Alberth>or you can't have strings with a name of a class in it :)
09:11<andythenorth>in lists or dicts
09:13<andythenorth>do they have to be kept in an array or similar for ordering?
09:13<andythenorth>or could you just fetch them with scenes.scene_1, scenes.scene_2 or so
09:13<Wolf01>If you need to check if x is an instance of Class you do "x.GetType() == typeof(Class)", if you need to check if x is instance of a more generic type, like object or interface, you do "x is object/interface£
09:14*andythenorth looks up some c#
09:15<andythenorth>Wolf01: got a paste? :)
09:15<andythenorth>I have no idea if I can help, just curious
09:15<andythenorth>also avoiding eating my greens on Road Hog
09:15<Wolf01>Even with subclassing, if you have class MyClass : BaseClass, you do x is BaseClass, because the type is MyClass
09:15<@Alberth>How is a class not a type?
09:16<@Alberth>ah well, nvm, please go ahead
09:16<@Alberth>too much headache for me :)
09:17<andythenorth>this will be like one of those programming pickles where the smoke clears and all is obvious
09:17*andythenorth has been there before
09:18<@Alberth>Type looks smelly to me, as a class is not a type, which is weird to say the least
09:20<Wolf01>Ok, in the first one I could cast it inside the method
09:22<Wolf01>No, it doesn't cast with variables, only with T
09:22<@Alberth>compile-time generic, I guess
09:24<andythenorth>ach, RH buy costs seem to work now
09:24*andythenorth guessed an arbitrary adjustment, all is well
09:25<andythenorth>now I am going to automate vehicle weight, based on capacity
09:25*andythenorth has frameworked away most vehicle choices :P
09:26<andythenorth>but hopefully the set still feels varied and interesting
09:26<andythenorth>global rules for cost, capacity, weight, speed, power, and also automated cargo sprites
09:26<andythenorth>but eh, it looks nice
09:28<Wolf01>Oops, I made an error, public object(Type scene)... or cast inside return (Scene)_scenes[scene], but still likited to BaseClass/Interface
09:29<Wolf01>With T is less verbose
09:29<Wolf01>(I could keep both eh)
09:33<andythenorth>ach, automating weight is tricky, as there are varying number of vehicles in consists
09:35<andythenorth>hmm, no, weight is only on lead unit of consist anyway
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10:13<@Alberth>it's like Java generics
10:13<@Alberth>but my problem is mostly why a class is not a type :)
10:14<@Alberth>maybe they do weird stuff with generics or templates or so
10:15<Wolf01>You still need to do typeof(T), its just to be able to pass the class as parameter instead of the type of the class
10:17<@Alberth>it's typeof() that confuses me
10:17<@Alberth>in Python: class X: .... f(X): return X() just works
10:18<Wolf01>It's reflection, MyClass != typeof(MyClass), even if typeof(MyClass) is MyClass
10:18<@Alberth>X is the class, and the type as well
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>wtf are you doing?
10:20<andythenorth>python seems rarely to be a useful routemap in other languages :P
10:20<@Alberth>yeah, well, other languages are often needlessly complicated :p
10:21<@Alberth>no doubt they have a reason for it, I just don't see it
10:21<@Alberth>reflection doesn't convince me of the need of a new object
10:22<Wolf01>_sceneManager.GetScene(MenuScene); <- throws a "MenuScene is a type, which is not valid in the given context", I need to do _sceneManager.GetScene(typeof(MenuScene));
10:22<@Alberth>ie what information does the class not have?
10:22<@Alberth>Wolf01: yeah, I get that, it just makes no sense from a C# language design point of view
10:23<Wolf01>Like pointers in c++
10:23<@Alberth>for some reason, they threw the simple solution out of the language
10:23<andythenorth>livestock is a low density cargo in TTD? Seems to have very low weight
10:24<@Alberth>can't stack them :p
10:24<Wolf01>Cram more cows in the car then :D
10:25<Wolf01>Maybe they were meaning chickens and there isn't anything about cow transport, it's just our fantasy
10:26<andythenorth>ho ho
10:26<andythenorth>probably don’t weigh much
10:26<andythenorth>wool is very light, no?
10:26<andythenorth>weighs less per ton
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they had a syntax/semantics conflict when calling <function>(<type>) so they needed a <function>(typeof(<type>)) to resolve it?
10:27<Wolf01>I don't know the background
10:28<Wolf01>Maybe all even started with the introduction of generics
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is a "generic"?
10:30<Wolf01>As you can't cast with a variable, you can't be able to cast with (typeof(Class))var or with (x.GetType())var for sure or with Type x => (x)var
10:31<@Alberth>in java, it's code that ignores the parameterized class, eg "List" doesn't touch the values it stores
10:31<Wolf01>Generic is a typeless parameter
10:31<@Alberth>in C# it's handled better, the type parameter is preserved
10:32<andythenorth>anyone want to translate Road Hog?
10:32<andythenorth>it’s kind of 1.0
10:32<@Alberth>and you can do things like generic over different type parameters
10:32*andythenorth will tag it if nobody wants me to wait for translation
10:32<@Alberth>strings changed?
10:32<andythenorth>not iirc
10:33<@Alberth>Road Hog Done! 43 0 0 0 0 <-- NL_nl is done
10:33<Wolf01>Tag and then do a translation tag if it's required
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>maybe announce it in the forum that you tag it next week, and call for translators?
10:33<andythenorth>or what Eddi|zuHause said
10:33<andythenorth>dunno, I want it off my plate
10:33<andythenorth>1.0.1: translations
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>tag it as 1.0RC1
10:34<andythenorth>I could do something about the docs as well
10:34<andythenorth>releasing 1.0 with actually broken docs is kind of rubbish
10:35<Wolf01>Wide range of ship types and capacities ?
10:35<andythenorth>isn’t it good :P
10:35<andythenorth>I’ll fix those
10:35<@Alberth>from 0 to infinity :)
10:35<Wolf01>Copied from FISH I suppose
10:36<@Alberth>name it not-fish :)
10:37*andythenorth will fix
10:38<Wolf01>A friend asked for a the Flintstones based grf for OTTD
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>can't, there are no BC(E) dates.
10:39<Wolf01>They didn't even knew what you are talking about
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10:40<Wolf01>Like if Roman empire used BC dates
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>sure, they gave dates in "we founded this city 753 years before this christ guy gets born"
10:40<Wolf01>Without any doubt
10:43<Wolf01>Btw, he's not happy with horse driven carriages in 1850
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11:28<andythenorth>this has been bugging me for a while
11:28<andythenorth>vehicles that feature improved / worse cargo decay rates
11:28<andythenorth>player has no way of knowing
11:28<andythenorth>I know, because I’m the newgrf author :P
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11:28<Wolf01>Write a changelist?
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11:29<andythenorth>it’s in the docs here
11:29<andythenorth>but who reads docs? :D
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11:29<Wolf01>Then why care
11:30<Wolf01>Btw, that's not a changelist
11:30<Wolf01>That's a list of vehicles introduced by grf
11:31<Wolf01>Changelist is Was: x; Now is: y
11:31<andythenorth>might be talking at cross-purposes :)
11:31<andythenorth>I mean when the cargo decay rate is adjusted for some vehicles, in game
11:31<andythenorth>like refrigerated trucks, cargo pays more per tile than non-refrigerated
11:32<andythenorth>should buy menu tell?
11:32<andythenorth>does player need to know?
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11:32<Wolf01>Write it in the buy menu, like on engines "Suitable for express passengers" "Hauls heavy freight"
11:34<@Alberth>Suitable for frozen cargo
11:34<andythenorth>‘Improved payment”?
11:35<andythenorth>dunno if players understand payment rates to be honest
11:35<@Alberth>nah, just mention intended use, payment is bonus :)
11:36<@Alberth>or reward, rather :)
11:36<@Alberth>although 'reefer' already implies frozen stuff, doesn't it?
11:37<andythenorth>that’s why I never bothered putting this in :)
11:37<@Alberth>I had to look up the word :)
11:37<andythenorth>player probably has no concept of payment rate algorithm
11:37<andythenorth>‘reefer’ should maybe be ‘refrigerated'
11:37<andythenorth>owing to drug reference :P
11:38<@Alberth>Suitable for frozen cargo <-- that seems clear enough to me
11:38<@Alberth>reefer implies you know about wagon types
11:41<@Alberth>"use for stuff that should stay cold" :p
11:43<Wolf01>"allow foot to not rot so it will be pais more"
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11:53<andythenorth>docs: done?
11:55<Wolf01>Looks ok
11:57<@Alberth>vehicle properties look a bit techy
11:58<andythenorth>“Special features: [Improved Payment], [Improved Loading Speed]”
11:58<andythenorth>in buy menu?
11:59<@Alberth>Loading Speed Multiplier: 2 <- faster loading; Cargo Decay Rate: 0.5 <-- slower cargo decay
11:59<@Alberth>would be nice to add it to the buy menu too
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>in CETS i have it so that the additional information looks just like the normal properties
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it mimics the formatting
12:00<@Alberth>list vehicles could be broken into smaller segments for readability, but otherwise, all seems fine
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12:05<andythenorth>Alberth: I wondered that
12:05<andythenorth>I could sort by sub-class like Code Reference
12:05<andythenorth>or by tram / truck
12:05<@Alberth>or by year
12:06<@Alberth>but mostly it needs some subsection headings, I think
12:06<andythenorth>oh is it sorted lexical on name currently?
12:06*andythenorth looks
12:06<@Alberth>date, I think
12:06<@Alberth>which is useful, imho
12:07<@Alberth>also +1 for mentioning start and end date :)
12:07<@Alberth>could move properties after the name name (properties)
12:07<andythenorth>a PIL script could open the vehicle png, crop out the buy menu image, and show it in the list
12:07<andythenorth>or even as a css sprite :P
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12:08<andythenorth>nice project for $someone :)
12:08<@Alberth>sounds like a great addition indeed
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12:11<andythenorth>“Improved Payment” or “Payment Bonus"
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12:12<@Alberth>former, imho
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12:13<@Alberth>although I would use a lower case 'p'
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12:25<andythenorth>‘Improved payent’, or ‘Improved cargo payment’?
12:25<andythenorth>payment / payent /s
12:32<andythenorth>not sure how to group though
12:32*andythenorth experiments with images
12:40<@Alberth>split between tram and truck?
12:40*andythenorth tries it
12:47<andythenorth>stuff like this
12:47<andythenorth>(consist.roadveh_flag_tram) if vehicle_type is 'Tram' else (not consist.roadveh_flag_tram)
12:47<andythenorth>obviously those parentheses are spurious :P
12:47<andythenorth>but also that’s bonkers anyway
12:50<andythenorth>my local version shows the sprites, but the paths are wrong on bundles :)
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12:55<@Alberth>if you want to go further, you might want to add the cargoes
12:56<@Alberth>on the other hand, that information makes much more sense in the game?
12:56<andythenorth>the docs aren’t exhaustive
12:56<andythenorth>also cargos are subject to loaded industry grf
12:56<andythenorth>or so
12:56<@Alberth>buses could be pulled out from the trucks, but that's only a few
12:57<@Alberth>and people using RH aren't doing that for extensive pax options :)
12:58<andythenorth>with pictures
12:59<andythenorth>1MB of images for such small results :)
12:59<andythenorth>I need to crop them
13:00<@Alberth>dark blue makes it difficult to see as well
13:00<andythenorth>if I’m processing them, that can be knocked out
13:00<andythenorth>also 2x zoom? o_O
13:00<@Alberth>sounds nice
13:00<andythenorth>this will take a little thought :)
13:01<Wolf01>Too bad for the blue
13:04<@Alberth>pil doesn't have a scale 2x operation?
13:05<andythenorth>think it will
13:05<andythenorth>and turn off anti-aliasing
13:05<andythenorth>should be fine
13:05<andythenorth>otherwise pixa has a trick to do it
13:05<andythenorth>bit slow though
13:05<@Alberth>pixa trick truck
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13:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: needs transparent blue
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13:34<andythenorth>no blue
13:34<andythenorth>now looks a bit odd to have vehicle cropped but no bounding box
13:35<frosch123>did you consider adding icons to the purchase list
13:35<frosch123>to indicate the "class"
13:35<frosch123>"fast loading" and "improved payment"
13:36<frosch123>">>" and "$" or something
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13:37<Wolf01><frosch123> ">>" and "$" or something <- faster and expensive?
13:37<frosch123>expensive for customer :)
13:37<andythenorth>frosch123: interesting idea
13:37<andythenorth>I have been -1 to icons in buy menu crap
13:38<andythenorth>due to ‘flags’ shenanigans
13:38<andythenorth>but it could work
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13:42*andythenorth fixes retina screen shenanigans
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13:50<andythenorth>1999 called and wants my html back :P
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13:57<andythenorth>Alberth: o_O ^
13:59<@Alberth>first 2 are weird
13:59<@Alberth>script made a glitch?
14:00<andythenorth>what’s weird about them? :)
14:00<andythenorth>might just be the sprites...
14:03<Eddi|zuHause>i think that's a zoom step too much
14:05<Wolf01>No, they are just weird vehicles
14:14<Wolf01>Bah, I have instances referenced by something and I'm not able to dispose them...
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>i mean in general, not just those two
14:16<Wolf01>But with one zoom step less you can't see the details ;)
14:16<andythenorth>with one less it’s just tiny
14:16<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: how big are they for you (pixels)
14:16*andythenorth wonders if the 50% reduction fails in some browsers
14:17<Wolf01>Stupid code analisys, didn't told me I have to make a class disposable
14:17<frosch123>their height is 3x the font
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>about 3 times the size as the text next to them
14:17<andythenorth>yeah that’s about righ
14:17<andythenorth>right *
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's too big.
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>and too pixel-y
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14:26<andythenorth>better Eddi|zuHause ^ ?
14:28<Wolf01>Remove the vertical align on tables
14:29<andythenorth>needs vertical center
14:29<Wolf01>Just remove vertical align on td
14:29<Wolf01>It's set at top
14:30<andythenorth>bootstrap :P
14:31*andythenorth does the lazy way
14:31<andythenorth>inline style
14:31<Wolf01>Stupid boostrap
14:31<andythenorth>nah, it’s good, you just have to keep it in a box
14:32<andythenorth>usually I recompile it with stuff turned off
14:32<andythenorth>but not here
14:32<Wolf01>Also you miss sorting icons in table header
14:32<andythenorth>they suck eh?
14:32<andythenorth>slow bundles is slow :(
14:33<Wolf01>Eddi|zuHause, did you look at vehicles lists of Transport Fever?
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: no
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, better
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: vertical center might help, yes
14:34<Wolf01>Trains and RVs are the same of Train Fever
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm, could really have used some more
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>i'm debating whether to order it right now
14:36<Wolf01>I hoped for sea transport, but I think they only made river ones
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>river makes more sense, imho
14:38<Wolf01>It's a more finished TrainFever, just as happened with Planetary Annihilation... instead of patching it they released a new paid version
14:39<andythenorth>is it good?
14:39<Wolf01>Trani/Transport fever? Yes, it's good, some weird limitations and bugs but I enjoy to play it
14:42<Wolf01>It even have working traffic on roads, you need to make dedicated lanes for buses or you'll get stuck in traffic in 1980+
14:44<Wolf01>I hope for intersections on rails, you can't make a X crossing in Train Fever
14:55<Wolf01>Track building allows for effortless construction of compact and complex track fields. For example it is possible to build tracks which can cross each other, have transfer points over multiple tracks and also double-slip switches! Details about these features may be discussed in one of the upcoming developer blogs.
14:55<Wolf01>Tunnels and bridges offer the same possibilities as regular tracks. They can contain the same switches and signals, as well as cross each other.
14:56<andythenorth>ach and now JS
14:56*andythenorth is doing all the things for docs
14:58<andythenorth>gah how do I pop from an array in JS :P
14:58<andythenorth>at a random location
15:00<Wolf01>What do you need to do?
15:03<Wolf01>Ha! There are lego bricks factories on Transport Fever... I'll buy it with no doubt
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15:10<andythenorth>is it acceptable to hate javascript?
15:10<andythenorth>or is that childish?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: they made a video on track construction, it looks promising
15:16<Wolf01>At least there isn't the double bridge glitch anymore
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>you can also make crossing bridges and stuff
15:17<Wolf01>It was a PITA to build a double track bridge/tunnel
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>what i'm afraid they did not adress is building crossing-free junctions by starting with a bridge, and then building the ramps
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>but it might still be less fiddly with the overall track building improvements
15:20<andythenorth>half my life I’ve been writing javascript
15:20<andythenorth>and I’m still inept :P
15:20<andythenorth>embarassingly so
15:23*andythenorth can’t get into Jenkins to kick Road Hog
15:23<andythenorth>I have a user, but creds don’t work
15:23<frosch123>what needs kicking?
15:24<andythenorth>it’s ok, I can see it unauthed
15:24*andythenorth was looking for the failure
15:24<andythenorth>got it
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15:38<andythenorth>images are random, and link to the vehicle, FWIW
15:40<frosch123>images are random?
15:41<andythenorth>the 3 large banner images
15:41<frosch123>oh, those
15:41<andythenorth>unless my javascript is broken
15:41<frosch123>so, same as firs :)
15:41<frosch123>they change when reloading
15:42*andythenorth has been hitting refresh for 90 seconds :P
15:42<andythenorth>I might 1.0.0 this
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: page is much nicer now
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15:46<frosch123>oh, "bin/openttd" does not start f, even when in the f folder
15:47<andythenorth>is f OpenTTD 2?
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15:48<frosch123>it copied most of the bugs, so probably
15:48<Wolf01>Nice andy :)
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15:54<andythenorth>1.0.0 done
15:55<andythenorth>needs a screenshot :P
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16:03<frosch123>what else should i do after that anti-climatic wcs
16:05<frosch123>V453000: so, when do we get shared orders or routes or something? :p
16:06<frosch123>hmm, i remember i had a mod for shared orders last time
16:06<Wolf01>I installed the tree growth mod, I already got trees over everything
16:06<Wolf01>Also the IonCannon and a lot of Bob's stuff
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16:09<Wolf01>Btw, if you have 2 inserters taking from a factory, how do you prioritize one? I tried connecting them with a cable but if the master one is idle because the output is full, the slave one is deactivated
16:09<frosch123>i usually use a fast and a slow inserter
16:09<andythenorth>is this image blurry for the rest of you?
16:10<V453000>frosch123: I am rooting for it. :D need to buy rseding or hanziq nuff beer
16:10<V453000>andythenorth: y
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it's weirdly scaled
16:11<andythenorth>dunno why
16:12<andythenorth>I cba to make proper buy menu screenshots tonight :P
16:12<andythenorth>if anyone wants to step in, feel free :)
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>anyone excited for additional hour tonight?
16:13<andythenorth>oh dear
16:13<andythenorth>it’s that day
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16:14<Wolf01>You have one more hour to do screenshots
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16:14<andythenorth>kids will be up at horrible o-clock
16:14<andythenorth>going by the clock :P
16:15<V453000>fuck that day
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16:17<Eddi|zuHause>i'm so bored...
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>i even started minecraft...
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16:18<andythenorth>make Road Hog screenshot
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>but found nothing useful to do...
16:18<andythenorth>play OpenTTD
16:18<andythenorth>I watch a lot of minecraft, but have no inclination to play
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>i found six diamonds...
16:19<andythenorth>I have been setting my 6 year old redstone challenges
16:19<andythenorth>so far he has built:
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16:19<andythenorth>- a thing that loads a sheep into a minecart
16:19<andythenorth>- a musical instrument playing a simple tune
16:19<andythenorth>- an automated slaughterhous
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16:20<andythenorth>- a crude series AND gate
16:20<andythenorth>the slaughterhouse was possibly the best :P
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>i have a redstone-less slaughter house. two dogs that hit any cow/pig that i mark with my bare hands
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16:21<andythenorth>maybe everyone builds one
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>but my sandstone-house looks ugly, my map room is too small and i can't be bothered to move to a bigger one, and i also can't be bothered to look for mods
16:21<andythenorth>try a casual game :P
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16:22<andythenorth>the dragon farming games are surprisingly addictive, for 20 mins every day
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16:50<andythenorth>what now :P
16:52<Wolf01>Do you want to make my map editor work?
16:53<andythenorth>is it flash?
16:53<andythenorth>I made a map editor once
16:53<andythenorth>it used graph paper
16:54<andythenorth>and then we copied the co-ordinates
16:54<Wolf01>I need to make it for the user
16:54<andythenorth>also for you
16:55<Wolf01>Also for me to not get mad with bundled levels
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16:57<Wolf01>I would like to bundle the game with at least 20 levels to play
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16:58<Wolf01>With 2 boss levels and different gameplay ones
16:59<andythenorth>20 diverse levels is challenging :)
16:59<andythenorth>to make
17:01<Wolf01>I made at least 30 maps for starcraft, I could manage to make 20 levels
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17:02<Wolf01>I also made the Wings of Liberty campaign for starcraft when starcraft 2 wasn't even in the minds of the developers
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17:02<Wolf01>When I played it "wtf, this is my campaign!"
17:03<frosch123>so you are paying your lego with the money you sued from them?
17:03<frosch123>now all makes sense
17:04<Wolf01>I can't sue them for a thing made with their stuff :D
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17:05<Wolf01>It's like suing lego because they started producing your moc
17:06-!-FR^3 [~frquadrat@2001:41d0:1:f924::1] has quit [Server closed connection]
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17:06-!-FR^2 is "frquadrat" on #osm-es #osm-dev #osm-de #openttd
17:07-!-FR^2 is now known as Guest7
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17:59-!-welshdragon is "Guest" on #tycoonexiles #tycoon #simsig #openttd
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18:03-!-wCPO is "Kristian Klausen" on #debian-live #debian #debian-next #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors #openttd
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18:04-!-wCPO is "Kristian Klausen" on #debian-live #debian #debian-next #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors #openttd
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18:23-!-Nothing4You is "Richard Schwab" on #mitmproxy #archlinux #supybot @#♫ @#♪♫ @#♪ @#↓ @#→ @#↑ @#← @#Ωpenttd @#ðþ€ŋΩŧŧÐ #openttd #oftc #debian-next #debian @##äöü€ΩŁ⅞æſ
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18:30-!-KouDy is "KouDy" on #openttd
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18:30-!-LordAro is "CharlesP" on #freerct #openttd
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18:55-!-Sirenia is "At Sixes and Sevens" on #debian
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19:03-!-TinoDidriksen is "Tino Didriksen" on #openttd #debian-nordic #opendune #debian-science #debian-mentors
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19:10-!-Taede is "Taede Werkhoven" on #oftc #openttd @#Turbulent #supybot @#Soapy #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop #/r/openttd
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19:26-!-wCPO is "Kristian Klausen" on #debian-live #debian #debian-next #debian-lxqt #debian-mentors #openttd
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19:46-!-ConductorCat is "realname" on #openttd #openttdcoop
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19:51-!-XeryusTC is "XeryusTC" on #debian-next #debian #tycoon #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop #openttd #coopetition
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19:55-!-ST2 is "ST2" on #openttd #/r/openttd
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20:15-!-guru3 is "This Other Dude..." on @#armagetron #openttd
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21:02-!-goodger is "GOODGER" on #openttd
21:20-!-manjaro is "..." on #debian #AllNiteCafe
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21:41-!-innocenat is "innocenat" on #openttd #openttdcoop
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21:46-!-DorpsGek is "DorpsGek" on #openttd
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 29 22:38:01 2016
---Logopened Sat Oct 29 22:38:07 2016
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22:38-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 130 nicks [6 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 122 normal]
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22:53-!-Mazur is "Stefan Linnemann" on #oolite #openttd @#openttdcoop @#openttdcoop.stable
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23:06-!-tneo is "tneo" on @#openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.devzone @#openttdcoop #openttd #opendune
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23:08-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on #openttdcoop.stable #openttdcoop.nightly #openttdcoop.devzone #openttdcoop.bots #openttdcoop #openttd #opendune #oftc #freerct #debian #/r/openttd
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23:11-!-Alkel_U3 is "alkel" on #openttd
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23:20-!-lastmikoi is "lastmikoi" on #qtile #openttd #virt #urwid #qemu
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23:39-!-Clockworker is "your dad" on #openttd #openttdcoop #openttdcoop.stable
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23:42-!-kais58 is "Callum Massey" on #openttd
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23:50-!-jonty-comp is "Jonty Sewell" on #openttd +#tycoon
---Logclosed Sun Oct 30 00:00:21 2016