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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-11-19

---Logopened Sat Nov 19 00:00:50 2016
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02:34<andythenorth>o/
02:49<@Alberth>moin
02:50<@Alberth>found nice arctic cargoes?
02:52<andythenorth>not yet
02:52<andythenorth>the flow looks about right http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#arctic_basic
02:52<andythenorth>I am 85% done maybe
02:52<andythenorth>I don’t like the furniture factory much
02:52<andythenorth>(for gameplay - I like the sprites just fine :) )
02:53<andythenorth>only one source of goods also
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02:55<@Alberth>oh, you ship the paper out
02:56<andythenorth>yes
02:56<andythenorth>paper coils are visually nice
02:57<@Alberth>indeed, just like steel coils :)
02:57<@Alberth>baseset has printing works for goods
02:58<@Alberth>but general store has already 3 sources, maybe this is enough?
02:59<andythenorth>probably
02:59<andythenorth>there’s room for one more cargo if it’s useful
02:59*andythenorth considered furniture
02:59<@Alberth>it's there :)
03:00<@Alberth>bakery could be, but that'd be food too
03:00<@Alberth>hmm, maybe fish oil?
03:01*andythenorth explores that
03:01<andythenorth>fish -> fertiliser is legit
03:01<andythenorth>but quite a lot of fertiliser already :)
03:02<@Alberth>at the end of the day, grain and fish can only go to food, probably
03:02<@Alberth>yeah, you don't need more exotic fertilizer/chemicals, imho
03:03<@Alberth>you seem to be lacking another goods source
03:03<@Alberth>although I am not sure if that's really a problem
03:04<@Alberth>having a more food-centric economy may be nice too
03:05<andythenorth>the tropic basic one is quite heavy on food
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03:09<@Alberth>ah, having two is a bit too much :)
03:10<andythenorth>there is lots of potential for mineral cargos
03:11<andythenorth>gold, silver, uranium, copper, cobalt, etc
03:11<andythenorth>but I don’t think they add anything here
03:11<@Alberth>maybe a simple oil chain? (oilwell -> refinery -> goods)
03:12<andythenorth>maybe
03:12<@Alberth>although it is so standard :(
03:12<andythenorth>yeah
03:12<andythenorth>that’s why I’m not so keen
03:12<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_tar is…interesting
03:13<@Alberth>maybe use methane gas? (cooking/heating)
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03:15<@Alberth>wood preservation sounds like goods :)
03:15<andythenorth>methane gas would be a legit input to the fertiliser plant also
03:16<andythenorth>but gas goes by pipeline? o_O
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03:28<@Alberth>hmm, right, that would not work :)
03:28<@Alberth>maybe by ship :p
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03:38<andythenorth>we need a new transport type for pipes :)
03:38<andythenorth>nvm
03:38<Eddi|zuHause>NPT!
03:41<andythenorth>I think it was done already
03:41<andythenorth>but we called it ‘factorio’
03:41<andythenorth>“pipes don’t fit the TTD game model” said all those people now addicted to factorio :P
03:41<Eddi|zuHause>who ever said that?
03:42<andythenorth>nobody I’m trolling :)
03:42<@Alberth>I may have said that, but then again, I am not addicted to factorio :p
03:43<Eddi|zuHause>the general consensus on pipes always was "$someone should do it, but properly"
03:45*andythenorth biab
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03:46<@Alberth>always nice if a patch queue messes itself up :p
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04:13<andythenorth_>Potatoes
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04:28<andythenorth_>Peat
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04:30<andythenorth_>Maybe all cargos could begin with P
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04:47<@Alberth>Poil, Pwood :)
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05:57<@Alberth>can we have tram in the scenario editor?
06:04<andythenorth>peat -> power station, no integration with other chains
06:04<andythenorth>not very interesting eh :P
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06:07<@Alberth>quite
06:08<@Alberth>I really like that you added coal to the steel factories, it's so much more interesting to do anything with coal
06:08<V453000>factorio style
06:08<V453000>smelt shit with fuel
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06:13<andythenorth>wood -> tar kiln -> medicine factory
06:20<@Alberth>definitely new :)
06:20<andythenorth>probably quite low quantities :)
06:21<andythenorth>there’s no need to add more to this economy, I just find the furniture chain boring :P
06:33<@Alberth>ah, I like all wood related chains fun to play :)
06:39<andythenorth>for realism, I should split wood (for sawing) and pulwood (for mashing)
06:40<andythenorth>but eh, it doesn’t add anything afaict
06:40<andythenorth>pulp wood can go by hopper car and such
06:40<andythenorth>is about all
06:41<andythenorth>wood chips? -> paper, fuel http://www.toucherdubois.ca/tdb/collection/original/41-51-1-40-97D.jpg
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08:36<andythenorth>need a name for economy with big vehicles chain in it
08:37<andythenorth>‘inspired by’ Ruhr / Rhine in Europe, Great Lakes in USA / Canada
08:37<andythenorth>lots of metal bashing
08:38<V453000>SIZE MATTERS
08:39<andythenorth>not bad
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08:43<andythenorth>RUBBER HITS THE ROAD
08:43<andythenorth>HEAVY METAL
08:44<andythenorth>RUST BELT
08:44<andythenorth>PEDAL TO THE METAL
08:44<andythenorth>WHEELS OF STEEL
08:45<andythenorth>EVERYTHING IS BETTER IN CAPS
08:45<@Alberth>YAY!
08:45<@Alberth>MadMax :p
08:45<@Alberth>or MaxMad :p
08:46<@Alberth>Rolin' thunder
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>call it BAD FEATURE
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>GLOBAL WARMING
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>SMOG COUNTRY
08:48<@Alberth>Add Oil chains too !
08:49<@Alberth>Green house
08:50<andythenorth>ROLLING THUNDER
08:51<@Alberth>No trains allowed
08:55<andythenorth>bit militaristic, rolling thunder
08:55<andythenorth>being the name of the US bombing campaign in Vietnam :P
08:56<@Alberth>Max to the Max!
08:56<andythenorth>Thunder Road!
08:56<@Alberth>would work :)
08:57<andythenorth>name of a Bruce Springsteen song I bought last week :P
08:57<andythenorth>also a filn
08:57<andythenorth>film *
08:58<@Alberth>likely used already indeed :)
08:59<andythenorth>also this mad max game I had as a kid http://www.geekyhobbies.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Thunder-Road-Remove-Cars.jpg
09:00<andythenorth>https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic903665.png
09:01<@Alberth>:)
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11:25<Jinassi>Good evening, I'm a bit rusty regarding comandeering a server. What do I have to do to (re)start a server with new config values? Already tried with "reload_cfg" no luck.
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12:06<Sylf>Jinassi, stop the server, THEN edit the config, then start the server again.
12:08<V453000>Sylf: 0.1.5 on bananas <3
12:08<Sylf>k.
12:09<Sylf>I forgot to update the changelog. Bleh.
12:09<V453000>I did :)
12:09<Sylf>cool
12:09<Sylf>thanks
12:12<V453000>my thanks :)
12:18<Jinassi>Sometning so blatantly obvious, that I tell other people to do, when fiddling config, yet I fail miserably at my own doing. Thank you @Sylf!
12:22<V453000>:)
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13:47<andythenorth>o/
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13:49<@Alberth>o/
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14:06*andythenorth plans heavy industry economy
14:06<andythenorth>detailed metals chain
14:07<andythenorth>iron ore + coke + limestone -> blast furnace -> pig iron
14:07<andythenorth>pig iron + manganese + nickel -> steel mill -> metal
14:07<Jinassi>For what industry set anythenorth?
14:07<andythenorth>then vehicles and machines and stuff
14:07<andythenorth>FIRS innit
14:07*Jinassi drools
14:08<andythenorth>but do I do equal heavy chemicals chain? Or just ‘chemicals’ which go to lots of places
14:08<andythenorth>probably just chemicals
14:09<Jinassi>Have you changed cargo Id's lately?
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14:10<andythenorth>the numeric IDs, or the labels?
14:15<Jinassi>numeric, this was a while ago.
14:16<andythenorth>they change per economy
14:16<andythenorth>there’s no stability for the numeric IDs
14:17<andythenorth>:)
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14:21<@Alberth>long metal chain seems sufficient of a problem to construct, as a first shot at it :)
14:22<@Alberth>you can always improve by adding a long chemical chain :p
14:22<andythenorth>I looked at it :)
14:22<andythenorth>I think it’s fine, except I don’t understand how plastics are made
14:22<andythenorth>generic ‘chemicals’ can go most places
14:23<andythenorth>‘plastics’ is also very generic, and maybe should be less so
14:23<Jinassi>oil+chemicals+goods?
14:23<andythenorth>sometimes only having 2 industry outputs is 1 less than I’d want
14:23<@Alberth>doesn't really fit the chain, unless you add a car production chain :)
14:23<andythenorth>car production + machines are at the top of the chain :)
14:24<@Alberth>cars needs loads of plastic :p
14:24<andythenorth>I am trying to integrate some electrical production too, from copper mostly
14:24<@Alberth>+1
14:24<+michi_cc>PP, PE, PVC, PU, PTFE, ABS, PLA, PS, POM, PMMA, PET, PI, PC and whatever else I've forgotten... ;p
14:24<andythenorth>I have probably 5 slots left or so currently
14:24<andythenorth>assuming farms aren’t needed :P
14:24<andythenorth>or food comes direct from farms
14:25<@Alberth>nah, do them in some other economy :)
14:25<andythenorth>michi_cc: yes it’s all just letters to me :)
14:25<andythenorth>I have a blind spot about chemistry, not sure why
14:26<andythenorth>‘plastics’ is very broad
14:27<+michi_cc>PVC + copper -> cables, PE + dye -> clothing, PTFE + aluminium -> cookware :p
14:28<BluesInTheNet>what about potatoes? ever thought about potatoes?
14:28<andythenorth>yup
14:29<andythenorth>https://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1479513600#1479546773
14:29<andythenorth>there are all my thoughts about them
14:30<BluesInTheNet>fair enough...
14:31<andythenorth>I wondered about making an economy where all cargos begin with P
14:31<andythenorth>Potatoes, Pyrite Ore, Paper, Passengers, Phosphate, Potash, Petrol
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14:33<andythenorth>‘slag’ http://www.railpictures.net/photo/596584/
14:38<+michi_cc>Oh, in case there are any chemistry nerds in this channel, I should have written PET + dye instead of PE + dye. I apologize for the inconvenience :)
14:40<andythenorth>how does an electrical chain work?
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14:40<andythenorth>I have copper, nickel, generic ‘metal’
14:41<andythenorth>I need at least ‘vehicle parts’ out of it, and maybe ‘goods’ or ‘manufacturing supplies’ or ‘electronics’
14:41<andythenorth>or maybe ‘electrical parts'
14:44<andythenorth>ha ha, can’t do all this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Electrical_components
14:44<andythenorth>:)
14:44<+michi_cc>Silicon + copper + plastics -> electronics
14:45<andythenorth>can I use (silica) sand as proxy for silicon?
14:45<andythenorth>I have it already for glass-making
14:46<BluesInTheNet>plastic pieces + plastic pieces -> slightly larger plastic pieces
14:49<andythenorth>that’s denmark economy :P
14:52<@Alberth>'slag' doesn't make money :p
14:52<@Alberth>would be nice if you could force player to handle it, though :p
14:52<andythenorth>I thought that
14:52<andythenorth>but it can be turned into cement
14:52<@Alberth>win!
14:52<andythenorth>I see a lot of ‘clinker’ cement trucks round here
14:53<andythenorth>from steel mills
14:56<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_granulated_blast-furnace_slag
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15:01<@Alberth>nice find :)
15:05<+michi_cc>andythenorth: silica sand is probably the most common source for silicon, but I'm not sure if it is pure enough for wafers. I doubt that matters though, an "electronics factory" is already such a huge simplification anyway.
15:06<andythenorth>let’s assume it has a complete chip fab in it :)
15:10<+michi_cc>Even that's not enough :) More like silicon refinery (or however that is properly called) -> fabrication -> front end (chip) fab -> back end (packaging) fab
15:10<+michi_cc>s/fabrication/wafer fabrication/
15:14<andythenorth>I’ll just put it in one big shed :)
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>sand->polycrystalline silicon->monocrystalline silicon->wafer->chip
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>(and that's probably still vastly simplified)
15:16<andythenorth>http://itersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/%EC%82%BC%EC%84%B1-%ED%99%94%EC%84%B1-%EB%B0%98%EB%8F%84%EC%B2%B4-%EA%B3%B5%EC%9E%A5-%EC%82%AC%EC%A7%84_06.jpg
15:18<+michi_cc>s/chip/processed wafer->die->bonded die->chip
15:18<andythenorth>not very interesting sprites :)
15:19<andythenorth>similar to http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#vehicle_factory
15:21<@Alberth>nah, make it like the one in Nijmegen: http://flickrhivemind.net/blackmagic.cgi?id=6907235338&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflickrhivemind.net%2FTags%2Fbuilding%252Cnxp%2FInteresting%3Fsearch_type%3DTags%26textinput%3Dbuilding%252Cnxp%26photo_type%3D250%26method%3DGET%26noform%3Dt%26sort%3DInterestingness%23pic6907235338&user=&flickrurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/30889238@N06/6907235338
15:22<@Alberth>last part probably suffices :p
15:23<andythenorth>interesting shape
15:23<Jinassi>andythenorth do you have or will you publish any test builds on bananas?
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15:24<andythenorth>they get compiled automatically
15:24<andythenorth>on bundles
15:24<andythenorth>but I can’t publish them to bananas, it makes a mess
15:24<Jinassi>kk
15:26<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/
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16:48<Wolf01>o/
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17:28<Wolf01>Boring evening?
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17:33<Wolf01>'night
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17:55<BluesInTheNet>Do the cities grow forever?
17:56<FLHerne>BluesInTheNet: There's a balancing point where the rate of growth and decay balance out
17:58<FLHerne>You can make that basically infinite if you really want to, but natural cities tend to reach a limit <100k without silly hacks
17:59<FLHerne>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/User:Mfb/Towns has some explanations of why towns stop growing and ways to minimise that
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17:59<BluesInTheNet>thx
18:00<FLHerne>(also, NewGRFs can make it different, but that caveat goes for most things)
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19:58<supermop__>ii wonder if there is enough Al in slag to be worth refining
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20:11<ERRM>Hola a todos...¿Alguien que entienda español por aquí, que me pueda ayudar, por favor?
20:12<ERRM>Hello...
20:13<Jinassi>¿Qué necesitas?
20:15<ERRM>Al fin alguien que entiende mi idioma. Disculpa, hermanazo. Tengo un problema con OpenTTD
20:16<ERRM>Verás... recientemente, actualicé de la versión DEMASIADO ARCAICA 0.5.3 RC-1 a la nueva versión 1.6.1. Y he instalado el Open SFX correspondiente a esta versión...
20:17<ERRM>Pero el programa tiene problemas para guardar las partidas y para bajar contenidos.
20:17<Jinassi>¿Se puede hacer una nueva instalación? ¿Qué sistema operativo tiene?
20:18<ERRM>Windows 8.1
20:19<ERRM>Escuche, también tengo instalado el programa TeamViewer, por si necesita operar mi sistema de manera remota.
20:20<Jinassi>Mi español no es tan bueno para operar un sistema en tu idioma: P
20:21<ERRM>Pero más o menos, qué crees tú podría ser el problema. Si gustas, te mando una instantánea o screenshot del juego para mostrarte cómo luce...
20:22<Jinassi>En los documentos, busque una carpeta denominada OpenTTD. Cambie el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg a OpenTTD-antiguo. Ejecute el juego y se reconstruirá, pruebe a descargar contenido de nuevo.
20:24<Jinassi>Usted va a cambiar el nombre de la misma para la custodia, por lo que todavía se puede utilizar más tarde. La reconstrucción de ese archivo restablecerá el juego y podrás volver a descargarlo.
20:25<ERRM>Hice los cambios y ahora suena la música de intro (antes no lo hacía). Veré si puedo guardar el juego.
20:27<ERRM>Puede descargar contenido, pero sigue el problema de que no quiere guardar.
20:28<Jinassi>¿No puedes guardar el juego o el contenido?
20:29<ERRM>El juego. Es decir, genero una nueva partida. Intento guardar y me aparece un cuadro rojo que me informa que no puede guardar en el archivo.
20:30<Jinassi>Una vez que los descargas, para sonidos, música o gráficos, tienes que configurarlos en opciones.
20:30<Jinassi>¿Eso es todo lo que dice?
20:32<Jinassi>¿Puedes descargar un archivo .zip desde el sitio web oficial, por favor? Descomprimirlo en el escritorio y ejecutarlo desde allí. Veamos lo que hace.
20:33<ERRM>Tengo el original.
20:33<ERRM>El Transport Tycoon DeLuxe original de 1994.
20:34<ERRM>Sale un mensaje que me dice "Error guardando partida. No se puede escribir en el archivo"
20:35<Jinassi>Entiendo. Esto ya no es Transport Tycoon. En el 2004 fue ingeniería inversa. Todavía tiene similitudes.
20:36<ERRM>¿Será el Windows 8.1 que, chico?
20:36<ERRM>¿Que uso?
20:38<Jinassi>Si
20:38<ERRM>Fíjate que incluso descargué un mapa de alturas y lo carga perfectamente, pero igualito no me agarra el guardado.
20:39<ERRM>Hace unos pocos años, yo actualicé esa misma versión 0.5.3 a otra un poc más avanzada (que se parece un poco en características a esta versión 1.6.1). Y no me dió problemas. Usaba entonces Windows XP SP3
20:40<Jinassi>Hm, extraño.
20:43<ERRM>Extraño, ciertamente. Obviamente, una versión más avanzada de este sistema operativo debería correr este juego sin problemas. Es más, hasta Windows 7 debería agarrarlo.
20:43<Jinassi>¿Fue OpenTTD o una actualización para Transport Tycoon o TDDpatch? Este es el resultado de todos ellos. Puede intentar ejecutar el programa en modo de compatibilidad para Windows XP o intentar descargar el programa más reciente estable de www.openttd.org.
20:44<ERRM>Entonces, si este problema sucede en Windows 8.1, ni me imagino lo que pasará si se corre em Windows 10
20:45<ERRM>Es OpenTTD.
20:45<Jinassi>Es cierto que OpenTTD más reciente no tiene problemas ejecutándose desde Windows XP a Windows 10. Para programas antiguos, tiene que usar el modo de compatibilidad.
20:45<ERRM>Estoy actualizando de 0.5.3 Release Candidate Número Uno(RC-1) a 1.6.1.
20:46<Jinassi>wow
20:47<ERRM>Y te digo que la versión RC ya me cansa. No me canso de exprimir compañías. Pero no me gusta tener que poner estaciones de autobuses al final d euna calle ni que pueda usar el zoom...
20:47<Jinassi>Sería mejor quitar las instalaciones anteriores e instalar las más recientes después. Guarde todo lo que quiera guardar y, a continuación, quite el antiguo.
20:48<Jinassi>¿Y sobre multijugador, lo has probado todavía? Hay un montón de gente jugando este juego en línea, todos los días!
20:49<ERRM>Oye no... siempre he jugado solo. Es decir, contra la PC. Pero sería genial... Lo que pasa es que uso es internet de pendrive movistar.
20:50<Jinassi>No hay problema, el juego sólo utiliza un ancho de banda muy pequeño. El archivo más grande es cuando usted está descargando el mapa para unirse.
20:51<ERRM>Ahh...
20:53<ERRM>Bueno. habrái que intentarlo. Pero primero debo resolver este problemita del guardado. Agradezco mucho la ayuda, Jinassi.
20:54<ERRM>Ese juego lo he desinstalado, instalado, vuelto a instalar y nada. Pero bueno...
20:54<ERRM>Vamos a ver. Mil gracias, Jinassi.
20:56<Jinassi>¿Ha eliminado o cambiado el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg en los documentos?
20:58<Jinassi>voy a tener teamviewer
21:12<ERRM>Así es. Pero de nada me vale. Los problemas continúan.
21:13<Jinassi>Puedo tratar de ayudar remotamente, no puedo prometer nada.
21:14<ERRM>Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.dfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg
21:15<ERRM>Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.cfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg
21:15<Jinassi>¿El juego hizo uno nuevo?
21:16<ERRM>Estoy jugando multijugador. Pero no hay nadie conectado. Cree una partida.
21:17<ERRM>Por si desea meterse, acá le dejo los datos de mi teamviewer: 885 582 082 password es u175fa
21:21<ERRM>se va a meter?
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22:12<Portugal>hi all
22:12<Portugal>:D
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