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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-11-29

---Logopened Tue Nov 29 00:00:03 2016
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08:17<goodger>jgrpp 0.16.0 hooray
08:20<crem>why are jgrpp patches not in the master branch? They seem good.
08:23<goodger>the automatic scheduling in particular is nothing short of a godsend
08:23<goodger>can't tell you how many things I tried to get even headways before
08:23<goodger>though I note it doesn't work with buses or trams, if there's a 'go via' order
08:23<goodger>works fine with rail waypoints though
08:48<@peter1138>i thought jgr was a dev at one point
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08:57<goodger>he was certainly a ttdpatch dev when I knew him
08:58<__ln__>i'm not aware of a jgr being a dev
09:00<goodger>I remember arguing with him in... january 2010? about whether ttdpatch was still worth doing
09:01<goodger>apparently I won that argument about three years later
09:01<__ln__>does ttdpatch still contain features that openttd doesn't?
09:01<goodger>at least one
09:02<goodger>roads across tunnel mouths, off the top of my head
09:02<__ln__>well then, clearly it is still worth doing.
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09:04<goodger>my argument was, and remains, that the continued development of an inherently less accessible and, more than likely, much less maintainable version of the game is not a productive use of time
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09:19<Wolf01><__ln__> does ttdpatch still contain features that openttd doesn't? <- custom bridge heads
09:21<@peter1138>advanced signals
09:24<Wolf01>I would like the yellow ones, as I only use pbs :P
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09:42<supermop__>good morning
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13:25<andythenorth>LO SUPERMOP
13:25<andythenorth>oh __
13:25<andythenorth>GET FIBRE
13:25<andythenorth>or FIBER
13:26<supermop__>HAVE IT AT HOME
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13:30<andythenorth>MY BOSS BUYS FIBRE FOR £9k PER YEAR
13:30<andythenorth>ACTUALLY MY BOSS IS MY WIFE
13:30<andythenorth>I BUY FIBRE FOR £9k PER YEAR
13:31<andythenorth>that’s 0.45% of total turnover for two internet businesses :P
13:33<andythenorth>8GB RAM
13:33<andythenorth>DEFINITELY NOT PRO
13:33<V453000>MY WIFE FOR AIUR
13:33<V453000>NUTS ARE PEAS
13:34<V453000>ARE YOU PEAS?
13:34<andythenorth>SUGAR ON YOUR PEAS MATE
13:34<@Alberth>some people ran out of lowercase letters?
13:35<@Alberth>pro tip: disable capslock entirely
13:37<andythenorth>get a USB add-on for it
13:37<andythenorth>like USB escape
13:37<andythenorth>and with a dongle
13:37<V453000>PRO AS FUCK
13:39<andythenorth>V453000: sugar in ya peas
13:39<andythenorth>probably have NFI what that means :)
13:41<supermop__>Alberth: annotating drawings in autocad
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13:44<Wolf01>Quak, o/
13:44<Wolf01> <- andy
13:45<andythenorth>saw it :)
13:45<andythenorth>for multiiple reasons
13:46<supermop__>i always wonder why governmental agencies still have enough faith in the internet to let it name their things
13:46<andythenorth>I have a whole blog post about that
13:46<supermop__>andy has a blog?
13:46<supermop__>did you let the internet name some legos?
13:47<andythenorth>“I” is the wrong pro-noun here
13:47<@Alberth>he collects blog posts :)
13:48<andythenorth>bloggy mcblogface
13:48<andythenorth>ok so FIRS is standard industry code
13:48<andythenorth>all templated
13:48<supermop__>what does the internet name the bikeshed at the nuclear power plant?
13:48<andythenorth>so why does the Fertiliser Plant not process Potash?
13:49<supermop__>OH MAN ANDY
13:49<andythenorth>but it does process the other input cargo
13:49<supermop__>add a grey nuclear power plant just so it can have tiny CC bikeshed pls
13:49<andythenorth>does FIRS have a subtlye production bug that nobody else has noticed
13:50<frosch123>do you have other industries where the 3rd cargo is not a supply cargo?
13:50<andythenorth>supermop__: we’d need a whole set of similes, metaphors, parables etc
13:50<andythenorth>frosch123: this one varies by economy
13:50<andythenorth>so it’s _probably_ that
13:50<andythenorth>it only has one input cargo in the ‘default’ configuration
13:50<supermop__>i guess the regular coal plant could have a bike shed
13:50<andythenorth>ah, I can debug that
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13:53<frosch123>am it the only one who reads "garbage idea" as "garbage idea"?
13:53<andythenorth>I did a poll
13:53<andythenorth>it’s just you
13:53<frosch123>good :)
13:56<supermop__>me too frosch123
13:56<andythenorth>industry production template doesn’t handle number of output cargos correctly
13:56<andythenorth>doesn’t understand economies
13:58<andythenorth>probably need a switch :P
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14:03<supermop>have to fight the urge to pick a computer based solely on cuteness and resemblance to early 80s sony design alone
14:03<supermop>i wonder if they sell a keyboard with the little nipple thing
14:04<Wolf01>Buy a new 3DS, it have the nipple thing
14:05<@Alberth>with enough money, you can have as many nipples as you want
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14:07<andythenorth>STORE_TEMP((economy==1) ? 2 : 1, var_num_output_cargos)
14:08<andythenorth>'economy' is a grf parameter
14:08<andythenorth>what should happen? o_O
14:08<supermop>usb thinkpad nipple dongle?
14:09<Wolf01> this keyboard can have a nipple attachment
14:10<@Alberth>andy: it does for economy==1: STORE_TEMP(2, var_num_output_cargos)
14:10<@Alberth>else STORE_TEMP(1, var_num_output_cargos)
14:11<andythenorth>ok that’s correct
14:11<Wolf01> lol, this feels uncomfortable
14:12<andythenorth>ok, found the bug :|
14:12<supermop>Wolf01: not exactly cheap
14:12<supermop>and no numpad
14:13<supermop>mouse is funny though
14:18<Wolf01> interesting... airrailtype?
14:25<Wolf01>Somebody wants Out of the Park Baseball 17?
14:31<andythenorth>ah, someone left me a comment
14:31<andythenorth> * ! IMPORTANT ! - there is no support for varying ratios by economy.
14:31<andythenorth>that would be me, leaving comments for me
14:32<@Alberth>thanks your past self for these useful hints
14:34<andythenorth>such FIRS bugs :)
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14:56<andythenorth>Wolf01: wonder if this appears in Technic in a few years
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15:00<frosch>that's a cat
15:00<andythenorth>is cat
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15:39<supermop>TOO UGLY?
15:40<supermop>I KIND OF LIKE IT
15:42<frosch>it does not seem to have super bright leds, so that is a plus
15:47<andythenorth>supermop: at that price, you care about ugly? o_O
15:48<supermop>frosch: anything that doesn't look like it came out of a late 90's high budget sci fi movie is prettier than average it seems
15:49<andythenorth>just for comparison, here’s what you could buy for $868 with no GPU or HD
15:49<andythenorth>that Lenovo thing is, on up-front cost, a bargain
15:49<supermop>andythenorth: its going to take up a non negligible percentage of the volume of my apartment so no room for anything not pretty
15:50<supermop>hence considering the tiny cute, non expandible thing
15:50<supermop>is lenovo the one that got into hot water for some spyware shit last year?
15:51<andythenorth>yes, but that’s not unique to them
15:51<supermop>andythenorth: i think the cheese graters would sell for a few hundred quid just for an empty case
15:52<supermop>if i saw a aluminum mac pro with not even a motherboard for $50 i'd probably buy it
15:52<supermop>probably would pay over 100
15:53<supermop>but i've also paid dearly for old sony radio alarm clocks that dont work anymore off ebay
15:53<FLHerne>supermop: Downside of those things is they're not very upgradeable
15:54<FLHerne>supermop: Non-ATX motherboard, 250W (possibly also non-standard) PSU
15:54<FLHerne>(the Lenovo one)
15:54<supermop>FLHerne: reviews seems to suggest throwing out the psu when buying new GPUs
15:54<FLHerne>supermop: At 250W for the entire system, you'd have to
15:55<andythenorth>supermop: the cheese grater is too big
15:55<andythenorth>we had some
15:55<supermop>not sure yet if i am going to get into some VR architecture vis. freelancing
15:55<supermop>but i dont need two gpus yet
15:55<supermop>if i do i can buy another computer and write down the cost
15:56<supermop>right now i need something and can't wait till next year, and have no freelance income this year to write off against
15:56<andythenorth>just buy this
15:56<andythenorth>the spec is crap, but it’s small and quiet
15:56<FLHerne>supermop: If upgradeability isn't an issue, why not get a Brix Pro or one of the higher-end NUCs?
15:57<supermop>well i want to be able to run acad and rhino decently well, so i can work from home for regular job
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16:01<andythenorth>hmm, needs a lot more RAM that Lenovo thing
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16:01<supermop>buy ram later
16:02*andythenorth now lives in a world of soldered RAM
16:06<supermop>vaios you could change
16:09*andythenorth has fixed all FIRS bugs
16:10<Supercheese>Fix ALL the bugs
16:10-!-frosch [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:10<Supercheese>then fix the features
16:10<Supercheese>then fix the fixes
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16:11<Supercheese>no winter theme for the forums yet?
16:11<Supercheese>had our first snow here already
16:17<supermop>small form factor lenovo probably good enough if i dont do any vr stuff
16:19<andythenorth>laptop not enough performance? Or too expensive?
16:22<supermop>i never carry my laptop around anymore
16:22<supermop>and yeah, seems like money goes farther on a desktop.
16:23<supermop>if i really needed a mobile workstation for work, ideally an employer would provide that?
16:23<supermop>so putting off thinking about it until its an acute need
16:23<supermop>at the moment my need is more 'a computer'
16:24<supermop>was thinking of a surface book, but specc'd how i'd want, i can get a mobile workstation and a desktop for less total
16:25<andythenorth>well at least it has a DVD drive :)
16:25<andythenorth>must be pro
16:26<supermop>in a chicken and egg bind - i dont seek out freelance work because it would be a pain to get all the equipment and software id need at home,
16:27<supermop>and i don't prioritize spending money on that stuff because i have no freelance work that requires it
16:28<supermop>if i had 2500 sitting around burning a hole in my pocket i'd just travel somewhere with it
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16:29<supermop>hmm don't know anything about xeon processors. should just pick the most expensive..
16:30<andythenorth>standard :P
16:30<andythenorth>I never understand how people buy PCs
16:31<supermop>if i get 128gb of ram can i just have no hard drive and never turn it off?
16:31<andythenorth>I used to (a) buy the cheapest Dell that wasn’t obviously crap (b) get someone else to do it :P
16:32<@Alberth>fast cpu, smallest possible disk, plenty of ram, done!
16:33<@Alberth>where smallest possible is around 1TB nowadays
16:33<supermop>Alberth: PCIe ssd?
16:33<@Alberth>nah, just a normal HD
16:34<@Alberth>I have enough RAM to work in the disk cache
16:34<andythenorth>supermop: how much will you spend? o_O
16:34<@Alberth>but, I program code, mostly editing plain text, and running a compiler
16:34<@Alberth>with a random chat window and web browser
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16:36<supermop>according to the xeon thing.... 3600
16:37<supermop>sounds low, better add more pcie ssds
16:38<andythenorth>how much will you sell it for in 2 years? o_O
16:38<supermop>goes in personal junk museum
16:39*andythenorth restarts Arctic Basic yet again
16:39<andythenorth>keep finding broken industries, which means test game is borked :P
16:39<supermop>seriously though, unsure about if i really need some kind of pro xeon workstation
16:39<supermop>broken chains?
16:40<andythenorth>if you freelance on day rates, you can’t charge more for having a faster computer
16:40<andythenorth>but you can do better work in the same time
16:41<supermop>can i sell my wife CPU /GPU time ?
16:41<supermop>she runs models that take a while sometimes
16:42<andythenorth>‘every marriage is unique'
16:43<supermop>she earns plenty freelancing with a just a 3 year old MBP
16:43<supermop>but she's in a different, less stupid industry
16:44<andythenorth>faster render = faster results
16:44<andythenorth>faster results = happier client
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16:51<supermop>if i get a tiny little thing, and then shortly buy something better to do real work on, the tiny guy can be relegated to be a htpc i guess
16:52<andythenorth>conundrums eh?
16:52<andythenorth>do the apps you use support network rendering?
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16:56<supermop>vray can
16:56<supermop>flamingo can
16:56<supermop>maxwell can
16:57<supermop>flamingo i can get cheap, but no one else uses, vray we have at work but is expensive for me to buy
16:57<andythenorth>so your software costs are as high or more than the hardware costs? o_O
16:57<supermop>but i think my work has a dodgy license and distributed rendering doesn't work
16:58<supermop>vray seat will be more than any computer i'd get other than that xeon maxed out
16:58<andythenorth>@calc 200/365
16:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.547945205479
16:58<andythenorth>@calc 20/31
16:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 0.645161290323
16:59<supermop>if i do freelancing, photorealistic static images aren't worth doing
16:59<andythenorth>Photoshop costs more per month than the mac :(
16:59<supermop>plenty of others out there can do better and cheaper
16:59<supermop>i'd probably focus on VR/real time
17:00<supermop>where there is growth and little competition
17:00<supermop>if i am doing freelance design, i'd outsource and bill any photoreal renders beyond what i can easily do on one machine
17:01<supermop>if i have a home renderfarm its going to be for openttd sprites as a added bonus
17:04*andythenorth bed
17:04<supermop>honestly right now a bottom end surface would be fine for almost everything i do non-work related
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17:04<supermop>which is read tt-forums, play go, and play openttd
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17:37<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: do i need a real gpu for TF?
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>how would i know... i don't have any comparison
17:38<Wolf01>Better have it
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17:55<supermop>this essentially puts me in the position of buying a real computer as a transport fever appliance
17:55<supermop>as there is no other need for such power at this time
17:58<supermop>probably don't need two gpus though
17:59<Wolf01>Buy a Nvidia 960 which now costs a shit
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18:00<Wolf01>And you might be able to to VR too
18:02<supermop>how much is a shit
18:03<supermop>not an option on this site, so i'd have to buy elsewhere and deal with on board graphics until it arrives
18:03<Wolf01>It's about 1/3 of the launch price
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18:05<Wolf01>On amazon is still about at 1/2
18:06<Wolf01>Bot on third party sites you can find some interesting deals
18:06<supermop>what the hell is a fase hdd bracket
18:07<supermop>on an old desktop i just had a 3.5" hdd sitting loose inside a 5.25" bay
18:07<supermop>never was an issue
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18:22<Wolf01> pretty much the right way to play it
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>ghandi with nukes is pretty much a "it's not a bug, it's a feature"...
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19:30<goodger>well they've pushed out five games with it included, so one can assume it's now intentional
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20:42<goodger>at least five
20:42<goodger>civ II to VI
20:43<goodger>was a bug in the original caused by an integer underflow iirc, and since then it's been intentional
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21:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's technically still an overflow, even if it goes below 0
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>underflow happens with floating point operations where values near 0 get treated as exactly 0
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21:33<goodger>fair enoughly
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 30 00:00:05 2016