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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-12-03

---Logopened Sat Dec 03 00:00:09 2016
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04:28<andythenorth_>o/
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05:30<@Alberth>o/
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06:17<andythenorth>o/
06:18<@Alberth>hi hi
06:18<@Alberth>found the bugs I reported yesterday?
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06:22<Wolf01>o/
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06:24<andythenorth>bugs? o_O
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06:26<Wolf01>Why not?
06:28<@Alberth>well, more like suggestions to improve on :p
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06:28<@Alberth>o/ W
06:38<Wolf01>Mmmmh, no news good news for a week, I should do something
06:39<Wolf01>Like, fixing a bug or fiddling with vehicles
06:41<Wolf01>andythenorth, should we use github feature to track what we want to put in NRT?
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06:44<andythenorth>yes
06:44<andythenorth>or the readme
06:47<Wolf01>The readme is difficult to track
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06:53<Wolf01>This could get really weird, if a grf disables normal road, what should be build in place of it?
06:53<Wolf01>Disables = replace?
06:55<Wolf01>The scenario editor code is whispering strange things to my ear
06:57<Wolf01>http://i.imgur.com/82nLVvR.png lol
06:59<V453000>xd
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07:01<Wolf01>Quak
07:01<frosch123>moi
07:01<Wolf01>frosch123, last feature: guess the build toolbar http://i.imgur.com/82nLVvR.png
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07:02<frosch123>is there a difference to spot between the toolbars?
07:03<Wolf01>No, I just can't figure out why DeleteWindowByClass(WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR); doesn't work
07:03<frosch123>would we allow building tram tracks in se?
07:03<Wolf01>Maybe it's because _cur_roadtype_identifier isn't a pointer
07:04<Wolf01>That's a real question, I would like to be able to build any roadtype in se
07:05<Wolf01>But there's something to understand about it: the introduction dates, availability to real companies etc
07:06<Wolf01>In se you can cheat the date to 2000, build something, go back to 1900
07:06<Wolf01>"cheat"
07:07<frosch123>i think the same applies to funding industries
07:07<Wolf01>Should we allow everything regarldess of the date and let scenario designers the respondibility to not fuck up things, or?
07:08<frosch123>i think it should be consistent to industries, just to make it consistent
07:09<Wolf01>Lol, it was WC_SCEN_BUILD_TOOLBAR not WC_BUILD_TOOLBAR
07:10<Wolf01>But that closes the other toolbars too
07:10<Wolf01>Mmmh
07:12<Wolf01>Docks don't even try to close the toolbar
07:14<Wolf01>Eh, yes... I'm not using the allocatewindow function...
07:19<Wolf01>Still doesn't give a fuck O_o
07:24<Wolf01>Maybe the ID = 0 is not really a good way to find a window
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07:39<@Alberth>warn the designer of mistakes on closing the editor? (bit late, perhaps notify him/her in another way too?)
07:44<Wolf01>I'm going to try something for headache, from aspirin to guillotine
07:49<Wolf01>return AllocateWindowDescFront<BuildRoadToolbarWindow>(&_build_road_scen_desc, _cur_roadtype_identifier.Pack() | TRANSPORT_ROAD); <- how bad could it be?
07:52<Wolf01>A lot, because it fits only se :|
07:54<Wolf01>Any idea?
07:55<frosch123>you are missing some shift there
07:55<frosch123>Pack() and Transporttype overlap
07:56<Wolf01>Yes, that's what I thought too, but I'm not convinced that's a good way to do it
07:57<frosch123>why is it different to the in-game stuff?
07:58<Wolf01>In-game it clears the building toolbar explicitly
07:58<Wolf01>But in se, doing that clears every build toolbar and not just road one
07:58<frosch123>in-game uses roadtype_identifier for the window number
07:59<frosch123>that's also werid
07:59<frosch123>RailToolbar uses transport type for window number
07:59<frosch123>i think that makes more sense
07:59<frosch123>not sure whether it needs a different window number for road and tram
08:00<frosch123>but according to rail it does not need different numbers of subtypes
08:00<Wolf01>Yes, I should change it back to transport type and use _cur_roadtype_id
08:02<Wolf01>Done, more clear and works better
08:10<Wolf01>Also fixed the crash, that was really easy
08:21<Wolf01>frosch123, I was wondering, it will be possible to draw layers like "ground, road base, tram base, road, tram, catenary"?
08:22<frosch123>"will be"?
08:22<Wolf01>http://i.imgur.com/DNsV8Bb.png <- to fix that
08:23<Wolf01>"could be"
08:23<frosch123>ah, that part
08:23<frosch123>yeah, i thought about that, but it does not work with the default sprites
08:23<frosch123>i considered adding special overlay sprites when the roadtype changes
08:23<Wolf01>Who uses default sprites anyway?
08:24<Wolf01>:D
08:24<frosch123>like junctions of dirtroad and normal road
08:24<Wolf01>Yeah
08:24<frosch123>where there is normal round, and then some dirt remains
08:24<Wolf01>That is tricky
08:24<frosch123>well, "catenary continuation" is still on my list, but the rest is definitely "future"
08:25<Wolf01>Because with road+tram you have 2 types in the same tile, with road you have only 1 type and you must check in all the 4 directions what are the other types
08:25<frosch123>with cat. cont. i mean a junction with electrified and non-electrified track, where the catenary is only drawn for those roadbits where the neighboured tile is also electrified
08:25<Wolf01>I think it's the same on catenary
08:26<frosch123>yeah, but with the catenary sprites it works :) but for deault road we lack sprites without grass
08:27<Wolf01>A grf addon?
08:27<frosch123>possibly, but not now :)
08:30<Wolf01>http://cdn.mattonito.com/img/blog/767/xl/01-086.jpg <- andythenorth, do you know what it is?
08:32<V453000>a box with wheely boxes visiting it to carry other boxes
08:32<Wolf01>That's the general definition :D
08:33<frosch123>when wolf is asking andy, it's most likely a lego factory
08:33<Wolf01>Yup
08:33<Wolf01>New factory in China
08:36<Wolf01>He should make a lego economy for FIRS next :P
08:43*Wolf01 browses forums looking for new features to work on
08:54<Wolf01>Well, not many ideas
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09:03<andythenorth>V453000: Amazon Warehouse? o_O
09:03<andythenorth>eh? Wolf01 ^ wrong person :P
09:04<Wolf01>Lego factory
09:04<andythenorth>orly
09:04<andythenorth>accepts: chemicals. produces: toys
09:04<andythenorth>no toys cargo in FIRS yet
09:04<Cornelius>the atrocity
09:04<Cornelius>need toyz nao
09:04<Cornelius>full with pba chems ^^
09:06<andythenorth>Wolf01: ideas….adjustable ship capacity
09:06<Wolf01>About NRT?
09:06<andythenorth>not so much
09:07<andythenorth>ships aren’t so road-ish
09:08<frosch123>venezian road type
09:08<frosch123>*venician
09:09<Wolf01>Venetian?
09:09<frosch123>"not compatible with tram"
09:13<andythenorth>movement would work ok though
09:13<andythenorth>canal roads
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09:13<Wolf01>Also not compatible with other roads, must build bridges
09:13<Cornelius>any reddit mod available?
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>why would you assume there are reddit mods here?
09:14<frosch123>try #/r/openttd
09:14<frosch123>they used to have their own channel
09:14<Cornelius>ahhh I see, new to irc and all
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09:14<Cornelius>thanks
09:16<V453000>:)
09:18<andythenorth>har
09:18<andythenorth>what could ships trade capacity for on refit?
09:18<andythenorth>speed?
09:19<frosch123>color?
09:19<andythenorth>lawks
09:19<andythenorth>you can have 25% more capacity, but only in black
09:19<frosch123>payment decay rate?
09:19<andythenorth>if you want red, you get 25% less capacity
09:19<andythenorth>reliability :P
09:19*andythenorth never uses breakdowns though
09:19<frosch123>if 10% of cargo goas off-board, you get paid less
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>i'd just add running cost
09:21*andythenorth just trying to post-hoc rationalise not having station capacity refits available ;D
09:21<andythenorth>terrible behaviour
09:21<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE is born
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>trading speed is useless, faster speed always wins
09:22<andythenorth>doesn’t it just
09:22<andythenorth>25% more capcity, 25% less speed = same result, no?
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>no
09:22<andythenorth>allowing variance for distance
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>because you earn less
09:22<andythenorth>oh yes
09:22*andythenorth was only thinking about throughput
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>ship throughput is infinite anyway
09:25<frosch123>if you exchange capacity for running cost, you make the choice purely visual
09:25<frosch123>which may not be a bad thing
09:25<frosch123>though more smaller ships give better station rating
09:26<frosch123>thought that may trade off with purchase cost
09:27<andythenorth>hmm, refitting gets a physicall bigger ship? o_O
09:27<andythenorth>physically *
09:28<frosch123>no, but less need for overlapping ships
09:28<andythenorth>might be better to just spam the buy menu eh?
09:28<Cornelius>is a hit box for ships still on the dev list or not going to happen?
09:29<frosch123>also possible :)
09:29<andythenorth>Cornelius be surprised if that happens
09:29<andythenorth>assuming you mean collision detection
09:29<andythenorth>at least one person has tried to patch it though iirc
09:29<Cornelius>yes if that is the correct term for it
09:29<frosch123>behaves like broodwar unit movement though :)
09:30<Cornelius>dragon ships hehe
09:30<Cornelius>is it also not a big drain on cpu?
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09:36<@Alberth>we don't have it so far, so cpu drain is not so bad of that feature :p
09:38<@Alberth>frosch123: I am somewhat stuck with scenario tar loading, should that be a simple linear function, or should it be considered to be a form of world generation, or something else?
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09:43<frosch123>i don't think i understand the question
09:44<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scentar201612 <-- that basically adds a "save" function for creating a scenario tar file (all very WIP)
09:44<@Alberth>it's called with a dirty hack for testing
09:45<andythenorth>:)
09:45<@Alberth>obviously, somewhere that scenario tar file needs to be loaded too
09:45<frosch123>currently we have "play scenario" and "play heightmap"
09:45<frosch123>the former has everything set up, while the latter gives you various generation parameters
09:45<@Alberth>and 'edit scenario' :p
09:46<@Alberth>yeah, but depending on what's exactly in the tar file, we may need to fill in the missing parts
09:47<frosch123>for scenario editor i think loading a traditonal scenario and a new one would just be the same thing
09:47<frosch123>can you change the mapsize with the new scenario format? i think no
09:48<@Alberth>I agree, you don't want content that's not in the file
09:48<@Alberth>somewhat iirc
09:48<frosch123>i guess it depends on the content then :p
09:48<@Alberth>some layers can be resized, others cannot
09:49<@Alberth>for example, currently a "town" is just a position and a name
09:50<frosch123>i think heightmaps are special, because you can get them from external sources.
09:50<@Alberth>I think it will make a mess with the roads layer, but we'll see
09:50<frosch123>i do not see an "obvious" difference between old and new scenario
09:50<frosch123>so, i would put them into the same folders, and load them the same way
09:50<frosch123>except that after selecting to play a new scenario there may be an additional dialog
09:51<frosch123>to set additional generatio options
09:51<frosch123>similar as to when loadnig a heightmap
09:51<@Alberth>makes sense
09:51<@Alberth>does it make sense to fold the loading into the world generation code?
09:52<@Alberth>or should it be kept separate?
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09:52<frosch123>worldgen is also in various files
09:53<frosch123>there is genworld with the original mapgen, there is tgp for tgp, and there is landscape/industry to genrate parts
09:53<@Alberth>it could need eg town generation or industry generation
09:53<frosch123>so, it's already a toolbox, since you can call parts from scenedit
09:53<@Alberth>ah, good point
09:53<frosch123>both town and industry generation are available as separate items in scenedit
09:54<frosch123>so, new file for loading new format imho :)
09:54<@Alberth>ok, I'll keep it separate then, as it should be either unique code, or just high-level calls to existing functions
09:54<@Alberth>we only have 300+ or so in /src already :p
09:55<@Alberth>oh, more like 450 :p
09:56<@Alberth>ok, thanks, I'll see how that works out
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10:37<Wolf01>frosch123, just for info, are you still using my clone repo?
10:40<frosch123>i only push to https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/commits/road-and-tram-types
10:40<frosch123>i pulled from various other places
10:41<Wolf01>Ok, because I still getting sync messages from my repo
10:41<frosch123>well, i think it still pulls from it
10:41<frosch123>but i do not merge it, if there is anything new
10:42<frosch123>i can remove the remote, if it bothers you :)
10:43<Wolf01>It was just an info ;)
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11:24<andythenorth>Iron Horse has a downside
11:24<andythenorth>when the theme is ‘one obvious engine choice for any route’
11:24<andythenorth>there is no engine variety :P
11:28<goodger>same is true of SBB Set
11:28<frosch123>i cannot remember any game since autoreplace where i ever had more than 3 engine types in ooperation
11:28<frosch123>so, where is the problem?
11:28<goodger>so many KISSs and TGVs
11:30<andythenorth>it’s better with tank engines; I randomise reversing the graphcs
11:30<andythenorth>ho ho
11:30<andythenorth>I could mess with the lengths, and reverse the tender engines too
11:31<andythenorth>that’s a lot of switches :D
11:31<@Alberth>:p
11:31<andythenorth>might be fun
11:31<andythenorth>slower compile though
11:32<@Alberth>make -DNO_RANDOMIZE firs
11:33<@Alberth>euhm, iron_horse, of course
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11:44<Lejving>So we have a game freeze lagging like for 1-2sec once or twice every minute... anyone got any sort of idea what can be causing it? or how can one debug it?
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>autosave?
11:46<Lejving>I just tested it, wasn't that
11:46<Lejving>still laggy =(
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>ships? traffic jams?
11:46<Lejving>no ships
11:46<Lejving>no jams
11:46<frosch123>cargodist?
11:47<Lejving>what do you mean by that frosch123 ?
11:47<frosch123>is cargo distribution enabled?
11:48<Lejving>oh there's like 10 of those settings, but dib mode for pax/mail/so on is on manual
11:48<Lejving>but the trains are actually stopped now
11:48<Lejving>so nothing is going on except me moving the camera and it freeze lags every now and then
11:48<Lejving>and it's the same for all users
11:49<frosch123>well, it's probably the server then
11:49<Lejving>I'm offline mode now
11:49<Lejving>not the server
11:49<frosch123>does it also happen if you pause the game, and only scroll?
11:50<Lejving>nope
11:50<Lejving>that seems fine
11:51<Lejving>wow it feels like when you put on your shoes after iceskating
11:51<Lejving>what an epic feeling with the game not freezing every now and then lol!
11:51<Lejving>so liberating
12:08<Lejving>if I turn off all newgrf except for one that crashes the game it still freezes
12:08<Lejving>and it's only when unpaused
12:08<frosch123>gamescripts or ais?
12:09<Lejving>none
12:23<Lejving>ok I found what it was
12:24<frosch123>what? :)
12:24<Lejving>the game didn't like the 169 orders :d
12:24<Lejving>I shall try more debugging see if there's exactly one setting that's causing
12:26<Lejving>yeap speed detection is dun g00fed
12:27<Lejving>I bet speed detection runs every x tick or so, and that's when it freezes
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12:58<Wolf01>Speed detection?
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12:59<V453000>Wolf01: conditional order with speed check
13:05<Wolf01>Is it checked on vehicle details or current speed?
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13:06<Lejving>maximum speed
13:06<Lejving>of the rail
13:08<frosch123>i wouldn't know why anything speed related would take considerable cpu time
13:09<Wolf01>Mmmh, I don't see an use for it, I would do 2 lines, one for goods and one for passengers, but I would use waypoints
13:09<Lejving>http://i.imgur.com/JM5R2HG.png
13:09<V453000>it's for conditional order magic Wolf01
13:10<Wolf01>The fuck?
13:10<V453000>openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: )
13:10<Lejving>we have another part of the orders just like the one I linked, and then somre more later on the orderlist... total of 36 speed checks
13:12<frosch123>so what? evaluating the speed in orders is same as opening a vehicle gui and looking at the speed in the start/stop bar
13:12<frosch123>so, do your orders contain infinite loops or something?
13:12<Lejving>maybe
13:13<frosch123>i mean if you had cdist enabled, this would screw up the order prediction
13:13<frosch123>but without cdist, i have no idea
13:14<Wolf01><V453000> openttdcoop using all functions of the game why are you surprised: ) <- I'm surprised to not being able to understand how this feature is used
13:15<V453000>ah
13:15<V453000>well you make a train go to a waypoint
13:15<V453000>but the waypoint has multiple places
13:15<V453000>each place is with different railtype
13:15<V453000>and the engine checks for railtype, and adjusts it's speed
13:15<V453000>it is a nuts thing
13:16<Lejving>are you nuts
13:16<@Alberth>in a good way, yes
13:16<Wolf01>Oh, so it's a contraption made upon another contraption
13:16<V453000>yeah it's a combination of two features
13:17<V453000>resulting in opening a whole new dimension of shit to do
13:17<@Alberth>:)
13:17<frosch123>oh, i see... the order prediction is also executed when cdist is disabled :p
13:17<@Alberth>haha :)
13:17<V453000>is that the cause of this?
13:18<frosch123>very likely, because the order predicition tries all possible results of conditional orders
13:18<V453000>XD
13:18<V453000>OH
13:18<frosch123>so, if you have long chains of conditions, it tries all combinations...
13:18<V453000>is that possible to fix/change?
13:18<frosch123>i would *think* that it is only needed if cdist is enabled
13:18<frosch123>but i am not very familar with that code
13:19<frosch123>GetNextStoppingStation() is the keyword
13:19<Lejving>z0mg
13:21<frosch123>do you have a savegame, so we can verify that it is that function?
13:22<Lejving>hold on
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13:25<Lejving>you got it?
13:26<frosch123>yep
13:31<frosch123>apparently DeleteStaleLinks() is the keyword
13:31<frosch123>it also does some recursive search on orders
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13:37<frosch123>hmm, so the smallmap also shows all the links when cdist is disabled
13:38<frosch123>so, it's no "just skip if cdist disabled " :)
13:38<Lejving>yeah that's what I've been saying all the time!
13:38<Lejving>just listen
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13:38<Lejving>*coughs*
13:39<frosch123>maybe in some other channel :)
13:39<Lejving>haha
13:39<Lejving>read between the lines!
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13:45<frosch123>just delete the "* pickup" stations, and it should be fine
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13:47<Lejving>:O
13:49<frosch123>do you have 119 separate order lists?
13:49<frosch123>or did you forgot sharing orders a few times?
13:49<Lejving>must have been forgeting to share
13:50<frosch123>nah, i miscounted
13:50<Lejving>all network trains should share same order
13:50<frosch123>1197/1455 are shared
13:51<frosch123>98 logic trains :p
13:51<V453000>:)
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13:55<Lejving>guess who's the slave frosch123 :D
13:55<Lejving>they make blueprints I get to do the salve work
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14:07<V453000>before blueprints were mainstream
14:07<frosch123>the cpu is the slave
14:11<andythenorth>should FIRS docs be translated?
14:11*andythenorth doesn’t have enough distractions yet
14:24<frosch123>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pzg26.png <- boring economy
14:26<Wolf01>Oh my...
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14:32<V453000>=D
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15:11<andythenorth>frosch123: I like how the last industry produces the input for its supplier
15:11<frosch123>:)
15:40<V453000>frosch123: is there any hope to get moar perforamnce for us then? :)
15:41<frosch123>no, that graph means there is no easy solution. someone actually has to understand the algorithm
15:41<V453000>oh :(
15:41<frosch123>which means, unless you can get hold of fonsinchen, nobody is going to check it
15:41<V453000>right
15:41<V453000>that's pretty bad
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15:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: after NRT, ‘flat docks’ o_O
15:48<Wolf01>I think I'll lose myself in state machines, not just OTTD one, but for my game too
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15:59<V453000>do we have some email for fonso?
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16:00<frosch123>forum pm?
16:01<ST2>pidgeon? :P
16:01<V453000>good idea
16:01<V453000>I'll send my personal slug
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17:03<fonsinchen>V453000: I'm here
17:04<fonsinchen>Should I read all that backlog ...
17:04<V453000>hello :)
17:04<V453000>frosch found something weird here
17:04<V453000>https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pzg26.png
17:05<V453000>trains which are checking for max speed are causing massive lag
17:05<V453000>the problem is, we have cargodist off
17:05<V453000>yet it still affects it
17:05<V453000>[if I understand what frosch said correctly]
17:07<fonsinchen>Hmm, yes, I remember, but why did I do that?
17:07<V453000>shrug :)
17:07<fonsinchen>There was some reason
17:07<V453000>but if cdist is off?
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17:08<fonsinchen>Maybe I can figure it out from the commit log. BTW, what is the order list that triggers this?
17:09<V453000>sec will provide the save
17:09<V453000>yeah the orders are crazy
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17:09<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/PZG%20%2326%2C%2022nd%20Mar%202412.sav
17:10<V453000>should be r27680
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17:12<V453000>the idea is that the big train group goes through the whole loop and does whatever necessary
17:12<V453000>the trains have a switch for max speed based on which railtype they drive on
17:13<V453000>that way we can have them make decisions based on where they crossed a waypoint
17:14<Wolf01>I still think you are playing the wrong game
17:14<V453000>not really
17:14<V453000>no other game has this much depth
17:14<V453000>to me at least
17:15<Wolf01>Pfffff, and that F video with combinators and shit?
17:15<V453000>that's just binary bullshit
17:15<V453000>it's amazing, of course
17:16<Wolf01>No, I mean you should design Train Simulator scenarios instead of playing OTTD
17:16<V453000>why?
17:17<Wolf01>Because they are fucked up amazingly too
17:17<V453000>it's different
17:17<V453000>here trains can do all sorts of crazy things :)
17:17<fonsinchen>V453000: one problem with not updating the link graph when cargodist is off is that you can switch it on and off during the game. That leads to all kinds of funny corner cases if you also stop updating the link graph then. Like stale links staying around forever
17:17<V453000>._.
17:18<Wolf01>There can even do shunting puzzles
17:18<V453000>does that mean this is unfixable?
17:18<fonsinchen>It can probably be dealt with, but I just didn't think it would be that expensive.
17:18<fonsinchen>Tracking down all the corner cases is certainly possible, but annoying.
17:19<V453000>could you please try? :) I would greatly appreciate it, this feature allows us to do a whole new dimension of things
17:19<fonsinchen>Another way would be making that function more efficient.
17:19<fonsinchen>That's likely easier
17:21<fonsinchen>V453000: Also, the link graph is a separate feature you can use without cargodist. You still see the links in the smallmap then.
17:22<fonsinchen>Man those 32bit grfs are large ...
17:23<V453000>but without cargodist, is that actually useful anyhow?
17:23<V453000>like, would it be reasonable to make it a setting? even if non-gui setting
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17:30<fonsinchen>V453000: A setting could be done. But there is this comment "There is potential for optimization here" that I left in DeleteStaleLinks() ,,, and in fact, all of the trains in your game look pretty similar
17:30<V453000>all the trains doing this should be 1 order group
17:31<fonsinchen>So, the overhead could probably be cut down to 1/#trains here if we can just identify trains that are the same
17:31<V453000>that would be great
17:31<fonsinchen>The problem is refitting
17:31<V453000>:d
17:31<V453000>why?
17:34<fonsinchen>Because you don't see that the trains are the same then. That is they are in fact the same but they still carry different cargo types.
17:34<V453000>oh so it isn't just about order sharing
17:34<V453000>I see
17:35<fonsinchen>But, thinking of it, this function should actually abort as soon as it finds one train that hits the link
17:35<fonsinchen>And if all the trains are doing the same, that should be the first one it checks
17:35<fonsinchen>... unless there is some other bug
17:35<V453000>:D
17:41<V453000>!pwq
17:41<V453000>!pw
17:41<V453000>eh
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17:51<fonsinchen>V453000: Well there is this one huge order list with tons and tons of trains following it and then some other order list with very few vehicles that visit their links very rarely
17:51<V453000>right
17:52<fonsinchen>whenever that latter link times out it goes and checks all of the big order list in order to see if one of the vehicles there might ever visit the link that's timing out
17:52<fonsinchen>That takes forever
17:52<V453000>:0
17:53<fonsinchen>And yes, there is already an optimization that first checks if both stations are actually in the order list
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17:55<fonsinchen>V453000: Can you point me to the vehicles that server the links that are timing out in your game?
17:56<V453000>server links?
17:58<fonsinchen>no, links between stations. But I can probably figure that out myself ..
17:58<V453000>I'm not sure how to obtain it
17:58<V453000>I have no clue which thing is actually causing the problem
18:04<fonsinchen>TownCDrop to TownCGetYeti
18:04<V453000>that's where they drop things and go obtain yetis
18:04<V453000>would "unload and leave empty" order help?
18:04<fonsinchen>Nuke preventer #2 does that
18:05<fonsinchen>through implicit orders
18:05<V453000>O_O
18:05<fonsinchen>probably randomly
18:05<V453000>I don't get it at all :D
18:06<fonsinchen>V453000: all other trains also have those two stations in their list, but not as subsequent stops
18:06<Wolf01>Lol V
18:06<V453000>ooo
18:06<fonsinchen>V453000: It evaluates all those conditions to see if it needs to keep the link alive that the nuke preventer created
18:06<V453000>so removing the nuke preventer trains with implicit orders will help?
18:06<fonsinchen>Yes
18:06<fonsinchen>in this case
18:06<V453000>:D
18:07<V453000>but it won't solve it entirely right?
18:08<fonsinchen>One obvious optimization would be to sort the order lists by the number of vehicles that follow them.
18:08<fonsinchen>So, we check the few vehicles first and if they hit the link, we're done.
18:09<fonsinchen>The more general solution would be to figure out that all those trains are actually the same and we need to only check one of them
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18:11<fonsinchen>Nah, even better
18:12<fonsinchen>We first check the first vehicle of each order list, then the second of each order list, etc.
18:12<fonsinchen>If one vehicle of some order list hits the link we're very likely to check it early
18:13<fonsinchen>... unless it's the one vehicle that carries a different cargo than all others and sits at position 1432 :(
18:13<V453000>jesus fuck I removed some nuke preventers and there is 73 more of them XD
18:17<Wolf01>Lol, the only grf I'm missing is yeti extended :E
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18:22<V453000>JustGetIt? :P
18:23<Wolf01>I'm already getting it
18:23<Wolf01>:P
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18:25<Wolf01>Shit, those cities
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18:29<V453000>that's the easiest thing on this game :P
18:29<V453000>just build road, let it grow
18:30<V453000>fonsinchen: ok want a save without the nuke protection trains?
18:31<V453000>I think it's a bit better
18:31<V453000>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/PZG%20%2326%2C%201st%20Oct%202413-no-nuke-protectors.sav
18:32<V453000>hm idk now it happened quite similarly
18:32<V453000>well, here it is :)
18:32<V453000>I have to go sleep, it's late
18:32<V453000>will be around tomorrow :) and thank you very much for looking into it, it's amazing
18:47<fonsinchen>After you remove the nuke protectors you still have to wait until all their links time out
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19:06<fonsinchen>V453000: https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/commit/7a2990bb8439d7fb3b44afb7fb7f2a21c08c6db8 should fix most of the problem.
19:07<fonsinchen>Of course if one of those links actually times out, that is also the nuke protector doesn't visit it anymore, it still has to check the long list of trains.
19:20<Wolf01>That game is cancer :D
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20:15<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 04 00:00:10 2016