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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-12-15

---Logopened Thu Dec 15 00:00:18 2016
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05:18<V453000>"first impressions" :D
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06:18<Wolf01>Also I have some first impressions... I tried the new bricklink software and I ragequit after 3 minutes of not being able to do the most basic things
06:32<V453000>shit brix?
06:32<Wolf01>Shit lack of features
06:34<Wolf01>For example: no multiple selection in the viewport with shift/ctrl, you need to do it in the brick list, with drag&drop you can select multiple parts, but in the middle of a creation is a PITA
06:34<Wolf01>Also pan and rotation buttons for camera are inverted
06:34<Wolf01>Which bothers me a lot
06:49<Wolf01>Yahoo! Another security breach at Yahoo!
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07:15<Alkel_U3>with md5-hashed passwords!
07:16<Alkel_U3>I hope they're salted, at least
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07:29<Wolf01>Salted, I don't think, maybe they should ask some to dota/lol comunity
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11:03<andythenorth>quak also
11:08<andythenorth>what’s next? o_O
11:09<frosch123>company christmas party
11:09<@Alberth>base metals from bulk terminal isn't very useful is it? 54t/month while enhanced :)
11:09<andythenorth>Alberth: sounds rubbish :)
11:09<andythenorth>I did adjust production upwards for that
11:09<Wolf01>Convert them into 54t of rare earths
11:10<@Alberth>hmm, need new version then :)
11:10<andythenorth>currently FIRS is a mess
11:10<andythenorth>due to attempt to improve industry text
11:10<andythenorth>which is big fail
11:11<andythenorth>“and that’s why we should all use feature branches"
11:11<@Alberth>I usually make a new hg repo for each branch :)
11:12<@Alberth>texts in my version are a mess too
11:12<@Alberth>some industries have rates of cargos they don't even accept :p
11:13<frosch123>Alberth: i hope you mean hg clone :)
11:13<andythenorth>it was the incorrect cargos that I set out to fix :)
11:14<andythenorth>but this time, automation has not paid off
11:16<@Alberth>frosch123: ha, yes indeed :)
11:18<@Alberth>text stack isn't co-operating?
11:18<andythenorth>it has a bug
11:19<andythenorth>and not enough slots
11:19<andythenorth>CARGO_LONG is not rendered correctly for newgrf cargos
11:20<andythenorth>[at least, I think that’s what’s happening]
11:21<Wolf01>Just published
11:21<frosch123>it only happens for stuff that is not measured in volume on weight :)
11:21<Wolf01>It's too big to keep it local and might need future merges
11:21<frosch123>i.e. those with custom "piece" texts
11:22<frosch123>Alberth: the culprit is passing parameters via global variables and then using recursion :)
11:25<@Alberth>joy :p
11:25<Wolf01>I always liked how easily things could get out of hands with recursion
11:26<@Alberth>you should always recurse towards the simpler case :p
11:27<Wolf01>Oh, you don't know me, I could make it implode even with sum 1 until gets to 10
11:27<@Alberth>biggest problem I find are these language implementations that assumes a stack level of 1000 is enough :p
11:29<Wolf01>I only found that problem on PHP with rendering my implementation of web forms, but that was function nesting... I then switched to a queue with function nesting of 4
11:30<Wolf01>In .NET I'm grateful when it finds about recursion, so I don't have to kill projects by myself, maybe losing something important :P
11:30<@Alberth>function nesting is the usual problem, both Java and Python don't like 1000 nested function calls
11:30<@Alberth>Python is fixable by a setting
11:30<andythenorth>recursion is weird :)
11:31<andythenorth>I know it’s a valid thing to walk up trees but eh
11:32<andythenorth>it’s voodoo
11:32<@Alberth>yes, it requires a mind leap to understand them
11:33<@Alberth>ie assume the function exists and works, while you're still writing it :p
11:33<Wolf01>Like when you switched from linear spaghetti code to objects oriented... I had a bad time when I had to learn that
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11:35<andythenorth>10: goto 10
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11:38<Wolf01>I started with basic, the amstrad one, then assembly and qbasic, then visualbasic :P
11:38<@Alberth>oh, I did some qbasic too, at the Atari ST
11:39<@Alberth>lots of fun with 68K assembly programming too
11:39<Wolf01>I was on Z80 :P
11:40<@Alberth>I started at a 6502
11:40<Wolf01>@school, I was one of the best assembly programmers of the class
11:42<Wolf01>Ok, we were in 4 which followed that, all the others weren't so interested and just aggregate to get good votes
11:43<@Alberth>Hmm, yeah, I did get a course with that too, at a 6809, but I had seen everything already, except a professional assembler :p
11:43<@Alberth>Implementing your own assembler was quite feasible too, at the time
11:44<Wolf01>We also used a lot a Siemens S5 plc
11:44*andythenorth should do some newgrf thing
11:44<@Alberth>Never programmed a real one
11:44<andythenorth>but eh I’ve lost my glasses :P
11:44<andythenorth>I’ve become my grandparents
11:45<andythenorth>I think I’m going to put roadtypes right into road hog, and see how many kittens die
11:45<V453000>do you even automate?
11:45<Wolf01>At least you aren't Philip J Fry... which is his own granddad :P (futurama)
11:46<andythenorth>V453000: automating dying kittens? o_O
11:47<Wolf01>He's too used to automation :P
11:47<Wolf01>What did you automate lately, V?
11:47<frosch123>andythenorth: feature branches? :p
11:48<andythenorth>for road hog?
11:48<frosch123>i only saw some pattern :p
11:48<V453000>Wolf01: EVERYTHING
11:48<V453000>still working on rails, they are automated AS FUCK
11:49<andythenorth>AUTOMATE YOURSELF
11:49<andythenorth>THEN YOU GO FASTER
11:49<V453000>apart from that, red circuits, blue circuits, you know... :P
11:49<andythenorth>what should FIRS industry window say then?
11:49<Wolf01>I'm only expecting a change on the recipes to blow up what I've automated so far :D
11:50<andythenorth>“Coal: required; Iron Ore: delivered within last 3 months; Stone: required; Industry is producing wastefully”
11:50<andythenorth>“Fruit: delivered within last 3 months; Grain: optional; Manufacturing Supplies: required; Industry is producing wastefully”
11:51<supermop>the grain makes it efficient?
11:51<V453000>it's just usually cost and time changes Wolf01
11:51<V453000>and science packs are totally different obviously
11:51<andythenorth>supermop: nope, not for brewery, it’s fruit + mnsp or grain + mnsp
11:51<V453000>and old boilers migrate into don't work at all
11:51<supermop>other than lambic usually you make wine or beer, not both
11:51<V453000>and ... :)
11:51<Wolf01>Science packs aren't a problem right now, I just set up a basic industry
11:52<Wolf01>Even times aren't a problem, I'm fan of "keep belts full"
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11:52<supermop>making both in one building probably hurts efficiency, not helps
11:52<V453000>then no big difference
11:52<supermop>and hinders the brand marketing?
11:54<Wolf01>Bah, I'm not in the mood of doing something useful today :(
11:54<andythenorth>me neither
11:54<andythenorth>I don’t even have an ottd game
11:54<andythenorth>and my kids won’t let me watch YT series without them
11:54*andythenorth has been watching Highway Thru Hell
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11:56<supermop>andythenorth: do a puzzle
11:57<supermop>i'm making molds to cast a version of this game from my childhood out of concrete blocks:
11:57<supermop>to give to my brother
11:57<Wolf01>:O cool
11:58<supermop>everyone getting concrete stuff this year because i still have like 5KG of cement sitting in my apartment to use up
11:58<supermop>10 kg was smallest i could buy, when i had to make some little centerpiece things for my wedding in the summer
11:59<supermop>and now i'm tired of the half full box sitting around
12:00<Wolf01>At least you do something for xmas, I'll go rogue (as rogue wolf)
12:00<supermop>my dad is getting a flowerpot shaped like the cooling tower of a power plant he worked on in the 70s
12:01<supermop>wife isn't getting concrete because she'd see me pouring it in the kitchen and ruin the surpriese
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>a rotational hyperboloid?
12:01<V453000>that's nice supermop :D
12:01<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: more or less, this one is much thinner at top edge than base
12:02<V453000>once I was at a big road construction site in Slovakia, and I brought back a candle lantern made of concrete to my wife, was quite fitting :D
12:02<supermop>so imagine the hyperbola rotated around a line at a slight angle
12:03<supermop>this one also has a wide circular wall around the bottom rather than the usual open sides, which is perfect fitting for the saucer beneath the flowerpot
12:04<supermop>and is at at 1-unit plant with only one tower, so i don't feel cheap making only one
12:04<supermop>V453000: heavy thing to carry back?
12:04<V453000>was going by car, didn't give fuck
12:04<V453000>had so much video recording hardware with us that one lantern disappeared in it
12:04<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: my dad was a structural engineer overseeing construction of the cooling tower so it's a good fit
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12:05<supermop>V453000: if i have enough left over i want to make candlesticks shaped like tetrapods
12:07<V453000>fuck is that
12:07<V453000>4 legged candle stuff or
12:07<supermop>3d printing the 10 part mold is expensive though
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12:08<supermop>one of those with spike and hole on one leg to stick a tall candle on
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>how does that take 10 parts?
12:09<Wolf01>Even the first google image
12:10<Wolf01> plushies one
12:11<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: the cooling tower. 6 segments for outside, 1 for top of inside, one for middle of inside above where the 'floor' will go, one for inside below the floor, and then one to cast the saucer
12:11<supermop>Wolf01: those are cute
12:12<supermop>my brother is hydrological civil engineer so he might like those
12:13<supermop>tetrapod you can make with a simple 4 part mold of slightly complex 2 part mold
12:14<V453000>alright supermop :)
12:17<Wolf01>Use this, supermop
12:18<supermop>that for sale?
12:18<Wolf01>I think not :P
12:18<supermop>i think that might take more than 5kg of cement
12:19<supermop>a breakwater of 100 pillow tetrapods would be nice
12:19<andythenorth>$750USD approx, for a 2t
12:19<supermop>sounds reasonable
12:20<V453000>they sell literally everywhere there
12:20<andythenorth>they have 7k 19t units in stock
12:20<andythenorth>only $3850
12:20<andythenorth>per unit
12:20<supermop>im sure my brother wants a 2t concrete block in his living room
12:20<andythenorth>get a shipping quote
12:20<supermop>downstairs neighbors might not tho
12:21<supermop>because it will end up in their living room, if only passing through to the basement
12:21<supermop>andythenorth: squid
12:21<supermop>only a dollar
12:23<andythenorth>I’ll have 2
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12:25<supermop>i can move to brooklyn and commute by barge
12:27<supermop>or just live on the barge i guess
12:28<supermop>anyone need to launch an invasion?
12:36<V453000>min order 1 units
12:36<V453000>didn't want two
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12:39<supermop>wearing a suit to work today because office so chilly
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13:06<_dp_>Hi! Are there any newgrfs with Christmas-themed stuff?)
13:06<_dp_>Except toyland :p
13:07<Wolf01>Just play toyland
13:07<V453000>I think there is some shit
13:07<V453000>like christmas tree newobjects
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>there's some christmas trees
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>... and toyland
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13:21<Alkel_U3>Oh yes, chritmas! Time to play Tyrian :-)
13:22<Wolf01>Shit, I almost forgot
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>what's that?
13:22<Wolf01>Best. Arcade. Ever.
13:23<Alkel_U3>a pretty legendary-level shoot-em-up from around 1995
13:23<Wolf01> free on gog
13:23<Alkel_U3>Christmas detected. Activate Christmas? Y/N
13:24<Wolf01> BTW I'm hypnotized now
13:24<Alkel_U3>yes, gog version prefered, opentyrian may be all native and shit but it's clone of Tyrian 2, not 2k. Also missing stuff like Destruct.
13:24<Wolf01>Good old destruct
13:25<Wolf01>Btw got to go
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>blah... gog demanding some emailed code, email not arriving...
13:29<Alkel_U3>it's also downloadable from... well, lots of sites like here , but gog's download already comes neatly prepackaged with dosbox
13:29<Alkel_U3>if you already have system-nstalled dosbox, the bare dos package will be more convenient, though
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i know how gog works...
13:31<Alkel_U3>oh, sorry, I forgot I'm not dealing with not-computer-people
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13:39<_dp_>Found some xmas trees but none of them are on bananas :(
13:42<@Alberth>andy, why is big bertha slower than its predecessor?
13:43<andythenorth>it’s for heavy hauling up hills
13:43<@Alberth>just use two predecssors :p
13:43<andythenorth>I’m never sure about that kind of game balance
13:43<andythenorth>seems that the ideal mix is: fast pax, powerful freight, small branchline
13:43<andythenorth>anything else never quite fits eh
13:44<andythenorth>big bertha is one of those
13:44<andythenorth>that never fits
13:44<@Alberth>equally fast would work, then you have the bigger pulling power
13:44<andythenorth>there’s another replacement coming up
13:45<andythenorth>1905 or so
13:45<@Alberth>but 88km vs 72km is a lot
13:45<@Alberth>ie you basically need all-hill for it to work
13:45<andythenorth>yes, I am not convinced it makes any sense
13:45<@Alberth>steel wagon at 65km also makes no sense
13:46<andythenorth>but yeah
13:46<@Alberth>especially as there is an alternative at 104km or so
13:46<andythenorth>you get very high capacity per tile on them
13:46<andythenorth>in theory
13:46<@Alberth>only 20t vs 30t, but length is not so much an issue
13:46<andythenorth>ah, the next gen is much bigger
13:46<andythenorth>that small one is a bit crippled
13:47<@Alberth>in 1904 now :)
13:47<andythenorth>I think these are valid criticisms though
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13:47<andythenorth>the only objection I have is that sets seem better when they have some quirks
13:48<@Alberth>weel, don't know how it'll work out of I keep the 0-6-0 longer, reliability may kill its use :p
13:48*peter1139 ponders starting a dbsetxl game
13:48<peter1139>assuming that still works
13:48<andythenorth>I kept some of mine until about 1940
13:48<andythenorth>but I have breakdowns off
13:49<@Alberth>peter1139: starting may be the easy part, playing and finishing is harder :)
13:49<andythenorth>I made the supplies cars 104km, because otherwise they wouldn’t get used
13:50<@Alberth>they look nice imho
13:50<peter1139>yeah i miss playing ottd on a crt
13:51<peter1139>800x600 was lucious
13:55<_dp_>somehow opengfx mars + toyland is the closest I got to xmas so far...
13:55<andythenorth>wasn’t it
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13:55<andythenorth>2x zoom is good, but makes some things a pain in the arse
13:56<_dp_>cacti and baobabs aren't exactly xmas trees though %)
14:00<andythenorth>Alberth: this looks like 104km eh? :P
14:03<@Alberth>88 would be fine too, ie the speed of 0-6-0
14:04<andythenorth>I might change it
14:04<andythenorth>I only use them on short runs, but they look good
14:04<andythenorth>Steeltown provides many more reasons to use them
14:05<@Alberth>yeah, they looked so good, but someone moved the shipyard a long way away from the factory :p
14:07<andythenorth>do you have Iron Horse from bananas or bundles?
14:08<@Alberth>it says 1.9.1, so likely bananas
14:12<supermop>the glowing hot metal wagons?
14:12<supermop>i basically use them like a conveyor
14:13<supermop>when the metal making and metal processing industries are close enough to think of as one industry campus
14:13<supermop>of course why they pay me to move the metal around on their own property is a different question
14:13<andythenorth>yeah I do that, but eh, I can provide some trams for that
14:14<supermop>andythenorth: sometimes branching rail spurs look better around industrial grounds
14:15<andythenorth>bundles will build that, not sure if it’s save-game safe, usually mostly is
14:15<andythenorth>not sure what to do about the Bertha
14:15<andythenorth>it doesn’t really fit eh
14:16<supermop>bump the speed, or leave it as a toy
14:16<andythenorth>those metal cars are a bit fast
14:17<andythenorth>they do need a bit of a limit
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14:24<@Alberth>not sure how long I'll continue my current game, a lot of stuff seems done
14:24<@Alberth>ignoring all the food :p
14:25<andythenorth>how long did you play?
14:25<andythenorth>got a screenshot of your map (or minimap)?
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14:38<supermop>i just looked dumb as hell in front of my wife
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14:39<supermop>bye expressing surprise that hexagon width is twice edge length
14:41<supermop>which somehow i never realized as obvious in 20+ years of doing trigonometry and 30+years
14:41<supermop>of liking hexagons
14:42<supermop>also looked dumb typing 'bye' instead of 'by' just now....
14:44<supermop>Alberth: grass looks too green to be amongst all that busy steelmaking activity
14:44<supermop>plants should be dead and brown
14:44<@Alberth>wrong climate perhaps :p
14:45<@Alberth>started around 1880, I think, first save is 1885
14:47<supermop>andy should make a steeltown climate grf: all regular land is bare dirt
14:48<supermop>instead of snow, houses get a layer of coal soot
14:51<@Alberth>steel goes near the north-west edge of the map, a loong way :p
14:53<@Alberth>I should probably play the "enhanced" or "gung ho" game to make production go through the roof
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14:58<@Alberth> bulk terminal production is weird: bring steel to the ship yard across the water, then bring marine supplies back by ship to the bulk terminal :)
15:03<andythenorth>it is weird isn’t it
15:03<andythenorth>I couldn’t get enough supplies in my game to get many gung-ho primaries or ports
15:04<andythenorth>the chain quite aggressively consumes inputs
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15:04<drac_boy>hi grf players/makers? ;) heh
15:05<andythenorth>Alberth: I should make a ship-carrying ship
15:06<drac_boy>andy well that might not be too far off
15:06<drac_boy>given that you already have planes carrying planes (abit the latter are usually in partial nature)
15:08<supermop>and that is a shipS carrying ship
15:09<supermop>that must be a minimum order from one of those ali baba shipyards i found
15:10<andythenorth>hmm, too many projects at once :|
15:10<supermop>are marine supplies supposed to be ships?
15:10<andythenorth>ships, oil rigs, docks
15:10<andythenorth>kind of vague
15:11<supermop>replace oil rig with offshore oil reserve, and you have to deliver rigs to it?
15:11<Alkel_U3>that's a shipping ship, shipping shipping ships
15:13<supermop>andythenorth: metal is currently unused???
15:13<andythenorth>not sure why
15:13<andythenorth>looking at that now
15:13<andythenorth>it’s a bug
15:14<andythenorth>supermop: ‘oil field’ :P
15:20<__ln__>does anyone consider himself as currently being in germany and having a PS3?
15:22<drac_boy>just asking but what you curious about re the deutsch ps3?
15:22<@Alberth>hmm, 2 sand quarries on top of the same mountain, maybe it's completely made of sand :p
15:23<andythenorth>nah, only the bits where the quarries are
15:23<andythenorth>geology layer for the map? o_O
15:23<andythenorth>can’t terraform some parts, can’t build in others (quicksand)
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15:25<supermop>coal, oil, and gas likely to be found in certain formations could be interesting
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15:26<Alkel_U3>I miss industry areas like in RRT2 - some allow coal mines and logging camps or bauxite mines, some ports or kinds of localized secondaries... Could such thing be achieved through a gamescript on scenarios?
15:26<andythenorth>gamescript, but it has very limited ability to work with newgrf
15:26<drac_boy>heh you still play RT2 alkel?
15:27<supermop>maybe good for a designing a scenario that starts in 1700 - you can designate areas that bauxite will likely be discovered in the 1900s without having to place useless weird 18th C bauxite mines
15:27<andythenorth>newgrf could do ‘areas’ but it would be flakey
15:27<supermop>you could have little nuclear industries
15:28<Alkel_U3>Not very much anymore but I've recently installed it into wine and found it works, so I'll probaly give it another go for nostalgia's sake :-)
15:28<supermop>like a tiny coal outcropping that produces tiny amounts of coal from year 0, and never goes away
15:28<supermop>but then coal mines spawn around it over the years
15:28<__ln__>drac_boy: some other EU country may do as well.... what i'm interested in is whether Amazon Prime Video or something close to that name is available in the menus or in the store.
15:29<supermop>they you could make the real industries much more likely to close
15:30<supermop>because there is a good chance another will open nearby
15:30<drac_boy>alkel oh..well I have RT2 Gold that I play from time to time anyhow (it used to be RT2+expansion for some time but then as I eventually needed to get the poptop-published version which would run on my main computers by the time I ended up finding a Gold set from someone else to trade with instead
15:31<drac_boy>the Gold isn't that different from vanilla+expansion .. other than for extra maps/etc tho
15:31<Alkel_U3>I think I bought platinum, after a year or two of playing the basic+TSC
15:32<Alkel_U3>also, just scenarios, most good stuff was in the TSC already
15:32<Alkel_U3>also I don't know about music - the CD I bought had pretty great soundtrack
15:35<drac_boy>alkel heh well anyway this is what mine looks like basically except for the stupid magazine label middle-bottom
15:39<Alkel_U3>I had somethig like this I think, but it was CZ version which I didn't like too much
15:39<drac_boy>alkel mind you the one very minor thing that still sometimes annoys me is how on some maps you can't build separate tracks, it has to be part of the existing one somewhere
15:40<drac_boy>I'm guessing yours is windows copy right? :)
15:40<Alkel_U3>which is funny because the long option dialogues of the game was initially what booted me to actually learn english properly
15:41<Alkel_U3>yeah, I didn't know linux port existed until recently
15:41<Alkel_U3>well, those maps are fine, part of the challenge :P
15:42<Alkel_U3>I only switched to linux about 3 years ago so I idn't really bother finding out what rare occurances might be playable on different platforms
15:43<drac_boy>alkel well I prefer to build individual lines almost all the times (except where eg one steel mill has 2-3 different routes from a single station) ;-)
15:44<Alkel_U3>I love to connect _everything_ :P
15:44<Alkel_U3>that applies to TT, too
15:44<drac_boy>alkel well if I'm going to be able to connect things I need to be able to build for profit first and that means no stupid empty line doing nothing
15:45<Alkel_U3>it can be managed, usually
15:49<drac_boy>alkel mind you one of the few locomotives I use a lot is the EE 3/3 as its suitable for the shunting of 1-3 wagons back n forth over a non-mountain link
15:49<drac_boy>lot of the times they keep finding themself on grains but go figure with that heh
15:50<drac_boy>single line with no bridge, the cheapest station (with servicing at only one of the two ends), and well a cheap little long-term low-cost elec .. what can I say heh
15:51<drac_boy>mind you I never ever used any of the big simple articulated's as they're more costly and less reliable than the basic GP9/etc tho
15:53<drac_boy>alkel oh yeah I sometimes have the basic station in middle of line and all I ever add to it is the sanding tower .. talk about hating watching a train suddenly come down to a slow crawl because it ran out of sand at the wrong time :->
15:54<drac_boy>alkel but anyway just curious, any particular train grf you like yet?
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15:57<Alkel_U3>I like trains.
15:57<supermop>andythenorth: worst practices Hog the way to go?
15:58<Alkel_U3>I used to run on DB set, then UKRS, then Pineapple, now Iron Horse looks appealing to me
15:58<Alkel_U3>I grew kinda tired of the bad features :P
15:59<drac_boy>alkel heh .. I still like dbsetxl at times .. kinda just couldn't be bothered with ukrs for time being due to several deficts in it .. and still have pineapple on some tropic maps here as well
15:59<drac_boy>as for iron horse umm no comment yet :)
16:03<drac_boy>alkel oh yeah I got the bunch of japan grfs once in a while (yeah the one where everything matches together)
16:04<Alkel_U3>I'm kinda busy with factorio lately :-)
16:05<drac_boy>heh :)
16:05<Alkel_U3>oh, and fixing my godforsaken, &#@!§!! bike
16:06<Alkel_U3>it became ridable today. Again. Here's hoping it will stay that way for at least a few months
16:06<drac_boy>alkel well japan train is kinda interesting especially as you have the two different grouping of passengers .. neverminding mixing in the Kiha's or local (small loco) trains
16:07<drac_boy>heh bike sounds old?
16:08<Alkel_U3>bike is a new-ish but cheap foldable
16:08<drac_boy>oh :)
16:08<Alkel_U3>I've replaced most original parts by now, so its value has about doubled
16:09<Alkel_U3>frame and front wheels are original, so is the seat
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16:10<Alkel_U3>well, rear brake arms are, too
16:10<Alkel_U3>oh, and the right crank
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16:14<andythenorth>such Horse
16:14<andythenorth>supermop: Bad Hog? o_O
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16:22<drac_boy>alkel mind you I'm also slowly working on a marklin layout too (somewhat mild size and best fun of all it has a wye, turntable, and one reverse loop .. all these sort of things that you just can't safely do with dc trains ;)
16:22*drac_boy notes it also has one E94 too, bit costly big locomotive
16:28<Alkel_U3>The only engine I couln't find a niche for was the Brenner
16:30<Alkel_U3>from TSC expansion - the lategame universal loco that's about as fast as early high speed trains but handles freight and grades well. Also cost a shitton and some more to fuel and maintain
16:31<drac_boy>oh dunno then sorry :)
16:37<drac_boy>alkel on the other hand this from FS makes me thinking a bit of the "cow-calf" emd units in usa :)
16:37<drac_boy> if you need to ask what the emd one was ;)
16:39<Alkel_U3>sorry, can't click on links, my mmouse is obstructed ATM
16:40<Alkel_U3>I'm wrestling with window paints and only place that remained free is the keyboard
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16:43<drac_boy>wonder what andy must be doing now heh
16:44<supermop>probably going to bed
16:46<drac_boy>anyway have fun supermop and alkel I'm going off re paperworks
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16:50<__ln__>hmm, clearly a game inspired by TTD, yet quite different and a different focus and goal:
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16:53<supermop>the little HST is cute
16:57<Redirect_Left>I've played that, it's incredibly tedious.
16:59<supermop>i got really excited when the people in here told be about shunting puzzles
17:00<supermop>but once i started researching what type of layout i'd build, i realized that operating it would be devastatingly tedious
17:00<Alkel_U3>shunting puzzles? Sounds kinda like A-Train
17:01<Alkel_U3>I had to reboot in dos mode when I wanted to play it on W98 :-)
17:01<supermop>its a model train layout with a bunch of switches
17:02<supermop>and you have to move certain wagons to certain sidings with limited space
17:02<supermop>you you are constantly decoupling wagons
17:03<supermop>if i were to build a bigger layout i might make one yard on it a puzzle layout in case i ever felt like it
17:04<supermop>but living in manhattan, anything more than 4" of track for my class 08 to stand on is out of the question
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: so it's basically the towers of hanoi?
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: the game where you have one pile of disks and have to move it from one stack to another, one by one, but never putting a larger disk onto a smaller
18:43<Wolf01>Oh, didn't read :P
18:43<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: i guess so? i never built a shunting puzzle because all be trains and track are in some storage bin in my parents house
18:44<Wolf01>Btw, no, you have to do it in less time possible and with less decouplings possible
18:44<Wolf01>No other constraints, afaik
18:44<Eddi|zuHause>by "time" you mean moving operations? or real time?
18:45<Wolf01>Real time
18:45<Wolf01>So you must be quick even on decoupling
18:45<Wolf01>That's why some build automatic decoupling systems
18:45<Wolf01>But they leave out all the fun
18:46<Wolf01>It also mean that if you make meaningless moving operations you waste time
18:47<supermop>turnouts are sharp though so you cannot drive the locomotive fast without it derailing
18:48<Wolf01>Also since it's model railroad you must take in account the weight (or the lack of weight) of wagons
18:48<Wolf01>Which mean that's really easy to derail even while coupling
18:49<Wolf01>For example you must be a genius doing it with a TT scale
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 16 00:00:19 2016