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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-12-24

---Logopened Sat Dec 24 00:00:31 2016
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02:38<andythenorth>o/
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06:33<lorran78>hello
06:34<lorran78>i launch a bash make with ogfx-rv but i have an error :
06:34<lorran78> File "<string>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: Required argument 'year' (pos 1) not found
06:39<lorran78>is there a newgrf with original planes (i wanted to modify the introduction date) ?
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06:53<Eddi|zuHause>all newgrfs contain the original vehicles. so just start with an empty grf
06:53<andythenorth>is santa
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>santa is usually around 18:00
06:53<andythenorth>we have English santa
06:53<Eddi|zuHause>in these parts of the world
06:53<andythenorth>he comes tomorrow
06:54<Eddi|zuHause>it's 13:00 now
06:54<andythenorth>my kids would prefer Euro-Santa I think
06:55<andythenorth>eh so FIRS
06:55<andythenorth>‘Efficiency: Zero | Hero | Nero’
06:57<andythenorth>also
06:58<andythenorth>this business with Coal = 3/8, Iron Ore = 3/8, Limestone = 2/8
06:58<andythenorth>seems unnecessary
06:59<andythenorth>instead of adding up the ratios, why not: 1 cargo delivered = 25%, 2 cargos delivered = 50%, 3 cargos delivered = 100%
06:59<andythenorth>??
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>why would that make a fundamental difference?
06:59<andythenorth>two reasons
06:59<andythenorth>(1) andythenorth doesn’t have to bother defining ratios
07:00<andythenorth>(2) some cargos are more advantageous at some industry types than other, which is a strategic balance that wasn’t intended or sought
07:00<andythenorth>also (3) no need to show the ratios in the FIRS docs
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>well, i'm not leaning either way
07:01<andythenorth>I think it’s a neutral choice for gameplay, but seems simpler to explain (and implement)
07:20<lorran78>yes it contains original but not files with details? i must have file to modify it :)
07:23<Eddi|zuHause>lorran78: you can modify an empty file
07:24<Eddi|zuHause>lorran78: have you done the nml tutorial yet?
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07:33<andythenorth>frosch123: seen my cb 3A proposal?
07:33<andythenorth>o_O
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07:34<Wolf01>o/
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07:45<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
07:53<andythenorth>ach
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08:16<andythenorth>so 3 input cargos means 3 values for efficiency
08:16<andythenorth>and 2 input cargos means 2 values for efficiency
08:16<andythenorth>so do I have 5 different values?
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09:12<frosch123>andythenorth: i am not a fan of ad-hoc solutions when it comes to apis that are supposed to stay forever
09:12<frosch123>also, didn't you just complain last week that there are not enough text parameters?
09:12<andythenorth>I did, but then I designed better :)
09:12<frosch123>so, building all text with a single callback is kind of the opposite
09:13<andythenorth>true
09:13<andythenorth>it would be hard to pack enough info in the existing text stack
09:13<frosch123>i am up for making the "waiting to be processed" more general in the base game, since it is overspecific to stockpiling
09:13<frosch123>but all other text specific to single input cargos should be done via cb37
09:14*andythenorth wonders what text would be best
09:18<andythenorth>could we move the ‘0 tonnes’ into parentheses?
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09:18<andythenorth>Requires: Fish (0 tonnes waiting to be processed)
09:39*andythenorth starts an NRT game
09:42<andythenorth>SV or Busy Bee? o_O
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10:17<frosch123>finished and pushed convert-road
10:20<andythenorth>yay
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10:20<andythenorth>I’ll recompile
10:24<andythenorth>frosch123: more artefacts on building a bridge with HAUL
10:24*andythenorth screenshots
10:25<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8260/NRT-artefact-2.png
10:25<andythenorth>convert is pretty cool
10:27<frosch123>well, which spritegroups does HAUL provide?
10:29<frosch123>i see missing roadstop and bridge
10:31<frosch123>cursor: optional; overlay: present; ground: present; catenary_front: optional; catenary_back: optional; bridge: missing; depot: optional; roadstop:missing
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10:32<andythenorth>right
10:33*andythenorth fixes that
10:34<andythenorth>fewer hax
10:34<frosch123>are there drive-in stops for HAUL?
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10:36<andythenorth>yes
10:36<andythenorth>but sprites are borked currently
10:36<frosch123>yay, visual effects with broken-aircraft smoke :)
10:37<andythenorth>you found a mining truck?
10:37<frosch123>same with steam logging truck
10:38<andythenorth>would be a shame not to use the effects cb properly :)
10:39*andythenorth wonders what overlays HAUL has
10:40<andythenorth>underlay + overlay is slightly overkill for most roads
10:40<andythenorth>nvm
10:40<frosch123>you can see them on the depot currently
10:40<frosch123>for roads overlays are usually transparent
10:41<frosch123>but they are used in depots
10:41<frosch123>though not sure whether it stays like that
10:42<andythenorth>overlay isn’t optional, right?
10:42<frosch123>no, not optional
10:42<frosch123>but for roads usually transparent
10:44<frosch123>maybe we could make them optional for that reason
10:45<andythenorth>could use them for the white lines :P
10:48<andythenorth>ha my drive in stops are borked now :D
10:49<andythenorth>more spritesets needed I guess
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11:02<andythenorth>fixed
11:07<andythenorth>frosch123: is there a place I can look which spritesets are required, rather than asking you?
11:07<andythenorth>I am working with the copy of nml railtype example, which is only partially relevant I think
11:07<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#cargo-type <- you could extrapolate from that :)
11:08<frosch123>required: overlay, ground, brdige, roadstop
11:08<frosch123>optional: cursors, catenary_front, catenary_back, depot
11:08<andythenorth>trying to figure out if junction is needed
11:08*andythenorth suspects not
11:08<frosch123>no idea what "junction" is
11:09<andythenorth>me neither :)
11:10<andythenorth>also “/* underlay for crossings w/o tracks */“
11:10<andythenorth>can’t figure where that would apply to NRT
11:10<frosch123>those are the regular sprites, which you see everywhere
11:11<frosch123>a regular tile consists of: (road or tram underlay) + road overlay + tram overlay
11:11<andythenorth>yes
11:12<andythenorth>is there an easy way to see the count of sprites per spriteset?
11:13<andythenorth>nvm
11:14<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwckflwuf
11:14<frosch123>gui may be incorrect there
11:14<frosch123>and roadstop is missing
11:14<frosch123>but the rest should be fine
11:15<andythenorth>awesome thanks
11:15<andythenorth>I think some of the copy-paste railtype spritesets have too many sprites for NRT
11:15<andythenorth>due to crossing underlay / overlay etc
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11:20<andythenorth>frosch123: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8261/road-hog.tar
11:20<andythenorth>fixed a few things
11:21<andythenorth>depots are borked, I will sort later, very child-loud here right now
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11:25<Wolf01>"can the game X be played cross platform?" "no, the games are written in different languages"
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12:31<andythenorth>what depot sprites should HAUL vehicles get? o_O
12:31<andythenorth>similar to default RV, or completely different? o_O
12:42<frosch123>taller?
12:42<frosch123>made of galvanized sheet metal?
12:42<andythenorth>possibly yes
12:42<andythenorth>there are some from Pikka’s railtype set, that are adapted from FIRS machine shop
12:43<andythenorth>seems appropriate :P
12:45<andythenorth>not sure they’ll look right though
12:45<andythenorth>logic doesn’t always win
12:45<frosch123>you could take the aircraft hangar :p
12:46<andythenorth>EL http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201110/r847584_7974706.jpg
12:46<andythenorth>RL
12:46<andythenorth>aircraft hangar would be ok :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27708 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt russian.txt) (2016-12-24 19:45:38 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan: 26 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian: 9 changes by Lone_Wolf
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14:37<Wolf01>To-do list for tomorrow: sleep, get up, sleep again, get up again, shower, read some news, go to a friend's house, eat pizza, back to home
14:39<frosch123>what's the first "get up" for?
14:39<Wolf01>Look at the clock
14:40<andythenorth>go back to sleep :P
14:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: italians eat pizza? :o
14:47<andythenorth>I thought it was a snack only
14:47<Wolf01>We have real pizza here
14:48<Wolf01>It's an entire meal
14:49<frosch123>andythenorth: do you still want to do a christmas forum post?
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14:51<Wolf01>My favourite: baked potatoes, sausage, onion, grana padano (cheese), pepper, over the classic pizza (tomato+mozzarella)... and I think I forgot an ingredient or two
14:51<andythenorth>frosch123: eh why not :)
14:52<frosch123>potatoes on pizza?
14:52<frosch123>i get beans and stuff
14:52<frosch123>but potatoes or pasta on pizza is weird
14:53<Wolf01>Nah, it's a bomb, but the taste is really good :P
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15:14<andythenorth>frosch123: dev thread? o_O
15:14*andythenorth making a better Road Hog to go with it
15:15<frosch123>which dev thread?
15:16<andythenorth>a new one? o_O
15:16<frosch123>oh, you man dev forum
15:16<Wolf01>The one he wants to write to spoil to the world the fun we have with NRT :P
15:16<andythenorth>forum / thread /s sorry :)
15:16<andythenorth>maybe it’s premature
15:16<andythenorth>there aren’t any newgrf docs yet
15:17<frosch123>i guess graphic dev would be weird
15:17<andythenorth>yup
15:17<frosch123>so ottd dev, with link to binary, nml_git and roadhog?
15:17<andythenorth>I think so yes :)
15:17<andythenorth>depends if we want people to find bugs
15:18<andythenorth>or we just keep it secret until April
15:18<frosch123>nothing is happening from feb+apr
15:18<frosch123>so, either now or never :)
15:18<andythenorth>now
15:19<frosch123>feb-apr we are busy explaining to eddi, why we did stuff the way we did it
15:20<andythenorth>Eddi is writing the docs? o_O
15:20*andythenorth can’t, the newgrf wiki won’t let me in
15:20<andythenorth>I even made a new user
15:24<andythenorth>frosch123: have you got any idea for witty post? Or will it just be factual? o_O
15:25<frosch123>dunno, silversurfer released 4 updates today
15:25<frosch123>lots of cars
15:25<frosch123>now, lots of roads
15:28<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=190570 <- this picture made me want a full alphabet newgrf object
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15:37<andythenorth>ha ha
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16:01*Wolf01 is waiting to copy/paste his message on andy's thread...
16:04<lorran78>sorry for the long response but i've already managed to compile another source with nml and bash too it's a new error for me :)
16:05<lorran78>where find empty grf source?
16:05<lorran78>i found only emptygrf from within ingame dl but no source
16:10<andythenorth>Wolf01: I have to write the post :o
16:10<andythenorth>I am drawing depots :P
16:22<lorran78>Eddi|zuHause ? i answer for ur question
16:38<andythenorth>have depots always clipped out of the GUI?
16:39<frosch123>yes, though i guess we could fix that
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16:42<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8262/haul-depots.png
16:42<lorran78>hum i have some strange bug :/
16:42<andythenorth>needs some pixels tweaking
16:42<lorran78>2 in fact
16:43<lorran78>first when i set a year introduction for a train (modified opengfx+trains) sometime the game set 1 year more
16:43<lorran78>and even if i set year introduction for wagons it doesnt work
16:44<andythenorth>could lose the roof greeble maybe
16:44<lorran78>it's always 1925 something like that
16:44<andythenorth>lorran78: the game randomises vehicle introduction dates by ~16 years or so
16:44<lorran78>oh okay
16:45<lorran78>when i set 100 it could be 100-16 or 100+16?
16:45<andythenorth>something like that
16:45<lorran78>but what about wagons date?
16:46<andythenorth>same afaik
16:46<lorran78>but i set 0 and it's 1925 ...
16:46<lorran78>it's somekind far lol
16:47<lorran78>i modified all wagon*.pnml and set 0
16:47<lorran78>i set it inside this : item(FEAT_TRAINS, flatbed_wagon) {
16:47<lorran78>property of course
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16:49<lorran78>and i asked some hours ago what can i do for this error on road vehicule opengfx+ grf with command bash CC=gcc make: File "<string>", line 1, in <module> TypeError: Required argument 'year' (pos 1) not found
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16:57<andythenorth>lorran78: hard to diagnose without some source code
16:57<andythenorth>what have you changed?
16:57<andythenorth>have you got a diff?
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17:33<lorran78>re andy
17:34<lorran78>hum
17:35<lorran78>the error come from the source code named : ogfx-rv-0.4.1-source
17:35<lorran78>from the http://bundles.openttdcoop.org
17:35<lorran78>it seems the compilation has error maybe? :/
17:38<lorran78>i added introduction_date to all 3 sort or rail to test but same bug
17:38<lorran78>always 1925 or so to the wagons
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20:22<Wolf01>'night
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20:31<Flygon>TIL - Drawing a lighthouse is difficult
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---Logclosed Sun Dec 25 00:00:32 2016