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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-12-29

---Logopened Thu Dec 29 00:00:38 2016
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03:08<andythenorth>o/
03:08<Deactivated>Hmm?
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07:35<Wolf01>Moin
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08:19<@Alberth>moin
08:19<Wolf01>o/
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08:23<Wolf01>Let's see if ottd blows up
08:24<Wolf01>Yes
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08:36<Wolf01>How do I get a town size?
08:37<Wolf01>Oh, cache
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08:41<Wolf01>Ok, seem to work
08:42<peter1139>hi
08:43<Wolf01>http://imgur.com/a/hYds1
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08:53<Wolf01>Not sure if best with 0 or 1 radii
08:54<Wolf01>t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[0] = mass * 15 - 40;
08:54<Wolf01>t->cache.squared_town_zone_radius[1] = mass * 9 - 15;
08:56<Wolf01>Btw, it's easy to espose to get country roads
08:57<peter1139>what makes that a country road?
08:57<Wolf01>Distance from town
08:58<Wolf01>Any town, not one in particular
08:59<Wolf01>I tried to do it the same way it's used to draw the tree ring in the cities
09:00<__ln__>https://www.instagram.com/p/BMFREIjhXEy/ #TSATravelTips
09:02<Wolf01>:)
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09:10<_dp_>tz0 is also affected by funding
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09:30<supermop>good morning
09:34<Wolf01>So, it seem I now understand how stations in town influence town growth
09:38<@Alberth>one less mystery to solve by playing :(
09:38<Wolf01>I always used 3 roadstops, but code says 5 is the best one
09:39<@Alberth>oh, coop claims 4, iirc
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>i only know the number 5
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of 4
09:40<Wolf01>Also, there isn't anything about passengers/mail transported, only ticks between load/unload
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes, any cargo suffices
09:40<@Alberth>pax is just plentiful available :)
09:40<Wolf01>So you can even leave your bus to "load if available"
09:41<@Alberth>won't make much difference, 2nd round, it's available anyway :)
09:41<Wolf01>Arctic and tropic are a bit different, there's also the food goal
09:42<@Alberth>yep, quite tricky to serve desert cities well
09:43<@Alberth>don't think I ever bothered doing arctic cities
09:43<@Alberth>too many good industry chains :)
09:44<Wolf01>No clue if is possible to make towns growth in zones, like commercial around stations which provide goods, houses around stations which move pax
09:44<@Alberth>"grow" is just building road, house, or replace house, isn't it?
09:44<Wolf01>Yes
09:45<@Alberth>so it depends on how it picks a new house
09:45<Wolf01>I often find that commercial buildings move away from the place they started in small towns
09:45<Wolf01>And try to cram into center of the town
09:46<Wolf01>Leaving my unload station in suburbs not accepting goods anymore
09:46<@Alberth>houses have a zone, or a prefered zone or so?
09:47<@Alberth>city evolution leaves much to be desired :p
09:47<@Alberth>on the other hand, it's not a city simulation
09:49<Wolf01>No, but placing (most of) all the commercial buildings in the other side of a city would provide a new piece of the puzzle to think about
09:49<Wolf01>As it's now, any place in a big town is valid
09:58<@Alberth>lots of low hanging fruit there, is my guess
10:04<Wolf01>I should get a leash to not be let free to roam in the code
10:06<_dp_>It picks random house that's allowed in that zone and fits the spot (if > 1x1)
10:07<_dp_>so there isn't much player can affect here
10:07<_dp_>only mb blocking some tiles to not get 2x2 warehouses
10:10<_dp_>well, I guess, funding and reserving kinda counts too
10:12<Wolf01>At least until $someone patches the code
10:27<_dp_>at this state I somewhat feel like doing patches for openttd is just a waste of time
10:27<_dp_>No one is going to merge them anyway
10:33<peter1139>fork!
10:33<peter1139>librettd!
10:33<peter1139>free the oppressive regime of the devs!
10:33<Wolf01>Was goint to write that... just fork the game or do a patchpack
10:33<Wolf01>*going
10:36<peter1139>Wolf01, how's the new version going?
10:36<_dp_>noone will play that fork
10:36<peter1139>http://orig05.deviantart.net/fd60/f/2013/048/d/b/what_if_openttd_was_real_____by_dragracingotaku-d5vccar.png :D
10:36<Wolf01>Slowly :P
10:37<Wolf01>I'm trying to figure out how to import photoshop in ottd
10:37<Wolf01>XD
10:37<_dp_>because of mp incompatibility, and for sp there are plenty of patchpacks already
10:37<peter1139>I'm trying to figure how to do a ttd-like game with no client state
10:38<@Alberth>big video wall attached to the server
10:38<peter1139>By "trying to" I mean, just thought about wondering if it's possible.
10:38<peter1139>heh
10:40<@Alberth>it would only remove the initial load of a savegame upon connecting, wouldn't it?
10:40<Wolf01>Should work like VNC
10:41<Wolf01>You only send commands to server which does all, and you see the result of the server execution
10:42<peter1139>good for laggy connections then
10:42<_dp_>as if ttd is any good on laggy connection :p
10:42<@Alberth>Wolf01: that already happens, in a MP, the server is the authority on performing commands
10:43<Wolf01>_dp_, a bit polemic today?
10:43<@Alberth>it just sends commands back instead of pictures
10:43<@Alberth>to save bandwidth
10:43<Wolf01>But there's client state
10:44<Wolf01>If you remove client state you need to use more bandwidth
10:44<@Alberth>yep, send a video stream
10:45<@Alberth>google YT server might work :p
10:45<Wolf01>Or at least commands to recreate the output
10:45<@Alberth>^ but that happens now
10:45<Wolf01>But the whole output
10:45<Wolf01>Continuously
10:46<Wolf01>Not state update
10:46<@Alberth>oh, like drawing commands
10:46<@Alberth>having a lot of images available for local rendering is not state?
10:46<Wolf01>Nah, they are resources
10:46<peter1139>^
10:48<@Alberth>split the grid in bigger sized blocks, and send how to render an entire block if a client looks at it
10:49<@Alberth>so each client gets a number of blocks
10:49<@Alberth>at the same time server only needs to handle each block once
10:51<@Alberth>could this work for a GPU?
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11:38<supermop>i wonder to what extent good functionalist design in game graphics, that makes a game so satisfying and timeless visually,
11:38<supermop>actually hurts our engagement with it
11:39<supermop>if a game is just about moving tiles to connect lines, it's a pretty puzzle,
11:40<supermop>if the lines look like cartoon railways, or a dungeon maze, etc, it moves from puzzle to game, and our mind builds a little narrative
11:40<@Alberth>likely that's different from person to person
11:41<@Alberth>if you grow up now, you only see pseudo-realistic 3d stuff
11:41<@Alberth>abstract lines just look weird
11:42<supermop>professional chess players all seem to play with the standard, sort of abstract pieces,
11:43<supermop>but i wonder if casual players have more fun plaing with pieces that look like figurines of knights and soldiers
11:44<@Alberth>likely they can
11:44<@Alberth>proffesional chess players build a whole world in their head
11:45<supermop>Alberth: when i was gowing up in the 80s, we had this game:
11:45<supermop>http://www.fairplaygames.com/pics/RiversRoadsRail.jpg
11:45<supermop>but the original version, from 1968 was like this:
11:45<@Alberth>however, I do think that game quality wins from whatever graphics you use
11:46<supermop>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cZPOKvXwjjc/T6f9Y4iSTDI/AAAAAAAAAT4/aDBbc3dKopk/s1600/IMG_4260.jpg
11:46<V453000>All bow to realizm
11:46<V453000>Or else
11:47<@Alberth>it's about first impression, I think
11:47<@Alberth>a deep game cannot be appreciated at a shelf
11:47<supermop>so when ravensburger bought the rights from galt, they made a decision to move it from abstract in graphics and name, to a cartoonish world based on things from real life
11:47<V453000>Yes Alberth
11:48<supermop>Alberth: yes, but when the game is also for children, something they can identify immediately probably is more engaging than pure gameplay unconnected to real world
11:48<V453000>The original graphics are imo so great because they are believable, and extremely high quality pixel art
11:48<supermop>because at first glance, they can't know if the game itself will be fun
11:48<V453000>Yes
11:49<supermop>but they can guess that building little roads and railways sounds fun, even if the gameplay is bad
11:49<V453000>Cough competition games cough
11:49<supermop>where as plain lines looks forbidding, like something for boring adults,
11:50<supermop>maybe it is fun to play, but the kid assumes they will have to spend boring time learning the rules without anything stimulating their imagination
11:50<V453000>We should have rails look like cubes with pathfinder penalty numbers on them
11:51<V453000>That is the case with everybody supermop, we are all kids in this :) ofc for children it applies a bit more
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12:01<V453000>:d
12:01<V453000>Nyway I gtfo, laters
12:02<supermop>later
12:03<__ln__>cool, Finland on BBC's front page: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38458583
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12:19<Jiri>Hi guyes
12:20<supermop>hi
12:20<Jiri>I am trying to get working these new 32 bit Zbase graffics
12:21<Jiri>the loading screen everything is fine but when i open new game some items are old graffics.
12:21<Jiri>like airports and roads. these are not yet made or what?
12:22<@Alberth>these games use NewGRFs ?
12:23<Jiri>yeah
12:23<@Alberth>if they do, they likely do not have 32bit graphics, and then OpenTTD falls back onto the 8bit graphics that they do provide
12:23<Jiri>or these openGFX
12:24<@Alberth>OpenGFX and Zbase can't be used at the same time, as you can have only one baseset at a time
12:24<@Alberth>maybe you mean the various opengfx+... NewGRFs ?
12:24<Jiri>https://s30.postimg.org/nyzymkxa7/pic1.jpg
12:25<Jiri>look the picture maybe that will clarify the situation
12:25<@Alberth>I know what you mean
12:25<@Alberth>airport and iron ore mine are fine, the city looks like crap :p
12:25<Jiri>but like loading screen all the roads and airport are importet to 32 bit graffics
12:26<@Alberth>if you want 32bit everywhere, don't play with newgrfs that do not have 32bit graphics
12:26<@Alberth>loading screen has no newgrfs at all
12:27<@Alberth>https://wiki.openttd.org/List_of_32bpp_NewGRFs#NewGRFs
12:29<@Alberth>you're likely confused by opengfx+industries and opengfx+airports
12:29<@Alberth>they are 8bit newgrfs, but use default (8 bit) graphics, so it looks like it's part of the baseset, but they are not
12:30<Jiri>might be
12:30<Jiri>i just wanted that the game look little bit better.
12:30<@Alberth>start a game without those two newgrfs, and see if that solves your problem
12:31<Jiri>so i donwload and install like this set? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1048814#p1048814
12:31<@Alberth>I don't know, do you need more vehicles?
12:31<@Alberth>I never played with eGRVTS
12:33<Jiri>i don't want new vehicles but nice looking roads
12:33<Jiri>please explain me how i will have 32 bit roads
12:34<Jiri>i think i got it now, i have to donwload abase set
12:34<Jiri>for zbase
12:35<Jiri>that was confusing
12:35<@Alberth>zbase has 32bit roads
12:35<@Alberth>buit don't load newgrfs that are not 32bit
12:37<Jiri>then why i don't see these 32 bit roads?
12:37<Jiri>i still don't understand
12:37<@Alberth>have you tried a game without any newgrf ?
12:37<@Alberth>ie only zbase baseset
12:37<Jiri>do i have to delete these newgrfs
12:38<supermop>Jiri: you have a newgrf that adds 8 bit road graphics
12:38<@Alberth>no, just deactivate them
12:38<supermop>no just do not load them in a game
12:38<Jiri>yeah
12:38<Jiri>thanks guys i got i working now
12:38<supermop>in your picture it looks like you have UK roads
12:38<supermop>which has 8 bit graphics
12:38<Jiri>i tried to "upgrade" them
12:39<supermop>andythenorth: et al, are things at a point yet where someone, possibly even myself, can make a NRT road grf?
12:39<@Alberth>Jiri: lots of artists are not here any more, or don't do 32bit
12:39<supermop>i have sprites for melbourne inspired roads sitting on a hdd
12:40<Jiri>yes i understand
12:40<Jiri>but why not default use the zbase.
12:40<Jiri>if you donwload the game today
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12:40<supermop>Jiri: most people do not like zbase
12:40<supermop>they think it is ugly
12:40<Jiri>comparing the newgrf?
12:41<@Alberth>no, baseset
12:41<supermop>notice how all of the buildings look flat and dead
12:43<supermop>zephyris made zbase as a test to try to make a 32bit base set, because at that time there were no other complete sets that used 32bit
12:43<@Alberth>Jiri: compare left column pictures with right column pictures https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1180743#p1180743
12:44<@Alberth>left column is a lot like what zbase is now
12:44<@Alberth>right column is infinitely better
12:44<Jiri>agreed
12:45<@Alberth>8bit graphics are much closer to the right column, so many people prefer that over the left column
12:45<supermop>zbase is just basic example of 32bit, it is not finished with texture like the right column
12:46<supermop>also, the original game is from 1994 - and the 8 bit graphics capture the spirit of that time, which many people enjoy
12:48<Jiri>i think everyone how now a days downlaod this game has played in their childhood
12:48<Jiri>but the orginal 94 game is totally different allready. so many good changes has happened since that
12:49<Jiri>with openttd
12:50<supermop>Jiri: yes, but not many artists enjoy making 32bit graphics, so there are very few of them
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12:51<Jiri>i can understand
12:51<andythenorth>supermop: you could make an NRT grf, if you can install the nml fork
12:51<andythenorth>not sure that’s trivial on windows
12:51<LordAro>also, zbase baseset is *massive* download
12:51<LordAro>isn't it 400MB or so?
12:51<Jiri>290
12:51<supermop>if you use basic 3d model and basic rendering, you end up with huge file size, but still dead look
12:52<Jiri>well rawr and yeti both are about the same
12:52<supermop>so you need to use professional technique to make better graphics
12:52<LordAro>even so, it's a far cry from the ~10MB download for the game itself
12:52<supermop>Jiri: V453000 is a professional graphic artist with professional rendering software and experience
12:53<peter1139>zbase is not very pleasant.
12:53<supermop>most artists for openttd do not have that experience
12:54<@Alberth>hi hi LordAro
12:54<LordAro>o7
12:54<@Alberth>/me waves
12:54<LordAro>still not fixed those ACTIONs, i see :)
12:54<@Alberth>clearly :)
12:54<supermop>even i am a professional architect who uses professional software, and I do not have the experience to do production like V453000
12:55<LordAro>there definitely used to be more 32bpp artists
12:55<peter1139>so why does openttd's cursor disappear in windows?
12:55<LordAro>i tried to organise them all, once upon a time
12:56<LordAro>iirc, several of them got scared off when some licencing snaffu happened
12:57<supermop>andythenorth: can i just put together sprite sheet and try to write some code and give to someone to compile?
12:58<Jiri>thanks guys i will no test different types graffics but yeti and rawr look nice
12:58<Jiri>see you byt.
12:58<Jiri>bye
12:58<supermop>Wolf01: do your country roads have the ability to use different decorations?
12:59<supermop>ie can sidewalk/tree/lamp graphics vary by road type?
12:59<Wolf01>Roadtypes define all, you should be able to define a different subset of graphics to use outside towns, no other changes like speed limits, only graphics
13:01<supermop>can towns build only the default roadtype?
13:01<Wolf01>Yes
13:01<supermop>hmm
13:01<Wolf01>Or the one which replaces it
13:02<supermop>so they cannot build dirt roads on edges of town and paved inside town - they can only build a road that looks like dirt outside and looks like paved inside
13:03<Wolf01>If you make a roadtype like that, yes
13:03<Wolf01>But I didn't try to replace the default one yet
13:03<Wolf01>Ask andythenorth :P
13:04<supermop>separate from ideas to make a grf with sprites i have already, i was thinking about the dirt/stone -> asphalt problem
13:04<@Alberth>and create all kinds of compatibility issues with vehicles entering or leaving? that sounds like a bad idea
13:04<Wolf01>No Alberth, it's the same roadtype, only with different graphics
13:04<supermop>currently road new grfs just fake it and you have to reload save after some date to go from old to new
13:05<supermop>but what if you could set a property for town prefernce
13:05<@Alberth>Wolf01: I know, and I think that's a good decision, I am arguing against different road types
13:05<Wolf01>You can already wall-in a city with HAUL
13:06<supermop>so town prefers aphalt most, stone next, and dirt least
13:06<supermop>but in year 0 only dirt exists
13:06<Wolf01>supermop, there's no concept of asphalt, stone, dirt and never will be
13:07<Wolf01>There's a concept of road/tramway and speed limit
13:07<Wolf01>A town could prefer a roadtype with 50kmh speed limit or one with 70kmh
13:07<supermop>a road grf could introduce three types of road with different speed limits that look like those
13:08<supermop>and set them so that a town prefers to build the 'asphalt' one once it becomes available?
13:08<supermop>iff a town has the choice to build from more than one type of road
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13:09<supermop>or is this crazy?
13:09<@Alberth>how does it decide?
13:09<Wolf01>Will require too many changes right now, and it's out of the scope of NRT
13:09<@Alberth>or, what prevents it from just picking one all the time
13:09<peter1139>yay ivor
13:10<supermop>Alberth: set a value for each type that town prefers
13:10<supermop>prefers modern road the most, but it is not available until modern times
13:10<@Alberth>that doesn't exist
13:10<supermop>so it build the old road
13:10<supermop>Alberth: i know, but was wondering if it could
13:10<@Alberth>unless your newgrf provides it
13:11<@Alberth>but there is still 1 roadtype today
13:11<supermop>Alberth: so now town always builds 1 type
13:11<@Alberth>every town builds the same type
13:12<supermop>but maybe a newgrf provides two types of roads, so all towns build type 1 until some date, then they build type 2
13:12<@Alberth>you can change graphics though, as far as I understand it
13:12<supermop>but not speedlimit
13:12<@Alberth>like I said, hello world of compatibility issues
13:13<@Alberth>but it's also not existing
13:13<supermop>why does, say, increasing speed limit of town built roads in 1910, cause compatibility trouble?
13:14<@Alberth>who says you'd have to use compatible road types?
13:14<supermop>alberth no one does
13:14<@Alberth>each road type is separate
13:14<supermop>a newgrf author can make today a rail grf that no train can ever run on
13:15<@Alberth>and you want that in a city, where it changes without a player control?
13:15<@Alberth>how is that good game play?
13:15<supermop>hows is that rail grf good? i just choose not to use a newgrf that was made in bad faith
13:16<@Alberth>I put rail down myself
13:16<@Alberth>it doesn't change by itself
13:16<supermop>a road speed limit increasing by itself does not hurt the player
13:17<@Alberth>I am not saying there are no good examples
13:17<supermop>if the grf provides a 2nd road type incompatible from the first, i choose not to play with that grf
13:17<@Alberth>I am saying there are also a lot of troublesome counter examples
13:18<supermop>i can make a road grf that changes all road to bright flashing magenta in 1992
13:18<supermop>but no one would use it
13:18<@Alberth>most people wouldn't even see it :p
13:19<@Alberth>in current openttd, at least
13:19<@Alberth>afk
13:19<supermop>i can also make a town grf that provides 0 population in every house available from 1990 onwards
13:20<supermop>so without my control, all of my passenger stations become worthless
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27717 trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt (2016-12-29 19:45:38 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish: 2 changes by SilverSurferZzZ
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13:52<@Alberth>yeah, well ok
13:58<supermop>are bus stop graphics going to be per road grf, or by base set?
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think bus stops will change with this patch
14:06<supermop>just wondering if i can change how they look on a per-type basis
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>not unless you want to implement newgrf road stations (including state machines)
14:15<peter1139>^
14:16<@Rubidium>just have state machines for everything then ;)
14:16<peter1139>doesn't make sense to make 2 ways to change them
14:18<@Rubidium>so you can have platforms on one side of the tile and the track on the other, or even a siding on one half of the tile with the main track on the other side
14:18<@Rubidium>all, ofcourse, including signals and arbitrary z-height changes
14:22<peter1139>well
14:22<peter1139>might as well wait for Wolf01's new version
14:27<Wolf01>Sure, junctions in the middle of a station
14:35<andythenorth>supermop: sorry I am afk for rest of day, can’t answer nml questions
14:35<andythenorth>bye also
14:35<andythenorth>:)
14:36<supermop>Antheus: np
14:36<supermop>oops
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14:36<supermop>sorry to guy who is one tab before andy
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14:55<Eddi|zuHause>why is athat even? is your tab not in alphabetical order?
14:57<supermop>maybe i tabbed too much
15:01<supermop>hmm what my little harbour needs is tramway on isr or chips style tiles
15:13<supermop>i wonder, if a big heavy truck drives to an industry where all the ground is cobblestones, does the truck drive on the cobbles? or do they have some concrete path for it
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>what does the cobble have to do with that?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>for heavy trucks you want to have a sturdy underconstruction
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>and concrete probably wears off quicker than cobbles
15:20<supermop>if you had a road type that was a tile of cobblestones, you need some kind of visual marker to show where the RVs can actually drive
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15:21<supermop>if it was regular road graphics in the center and cobblestones at the tile edges, it would blend with the rest of the industry or harbour, but would look silly
15:21<supermop>a tramway on cobblestone is easy
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand the problem
15:24<supermop>lets say i want to make a road grf that adds a new road type: cobbled yard
15:25<supermop>i want the road to look like a full tile of cobblestones, with no grass at the sides
15:25<supermop>so i can build a fancy harbour or whatever and it looks like the trucks are driving around some industrial complex
15:26<supermop>if the road is a full tile of stones, there is no way for the player to tell what road bits are there or connected
15:27<supermop>if it was a full tile of concrete, maybe you paint some stripes on it, but that might look bad on cobblestone
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>there are cobble roads with a different type of cobble where the wheels of a car would go... but i can't find a picture of that
15:30<supermop>like maybe a darker stone there?
15:31<supermop>maybe i could put some gutters at the 'road' edge
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>not exactly what i mean, but maybe this comes closest https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2015/10/29/08/31/paving-stones-1011977_960_720.jpg
15:39<supermop>yeah
15:39<supermop>i think having them under wheels bight make them look too much like tram tracks, but if i just do the outside edges, that should work
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>under the wheels should be darker
15:41<supermop>hmm the isr gravel shows some of the groundtile through
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>or make the whole lane out of the darker cobbles
15:42<supermop>i wonder if that will be a problem
16:24<lorran78>hello!
16:25<lorran78>i managed to change introduction date from all type of original vehicules...
16:26<lorran78>but i wanted now to make a grf with all vehicle without using opengfx+ but it seems it doesn't work
16:28<__ln__>@seen SmatZ
16:28<@DorpsGek>__ln__: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 21 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <SmatZ> wish I were so lucky...
16:29<__ln__>@seen Yexo
16:29<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
16:29<lorran78>i tried opengfx+ first in the list of grf and end
16:29<lorran78>but same my vehicle are twice :/
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>lorran78: you need the "override vehicles of other grf" feature, look it up on the wiki
16:30<lorran78>oh cool
16:33<lorran78>i am searching
16:36<lorran78>it's a parameter i must add?
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17:48<__ln__>anyone been to Seattle?
17:53<Supercheese>yeah been a few times
17:53<Supercheese>the monorail is reeeally short
17:53<Supercheese>like, you almost might as well walk
17:53<lorran78>eddi ? i can't find something about override
17:54<lorran78>and i have a question when i override it override only the property i set or it's reset all properties and put only mine?
17:54<__ln__>is it an interesting place to visit otherwise?
17:57<__ln__>and is there something to see about boeing?
17:59<supermop>__ln__: its a decent city
17:59<supermop>there are plenty of good food and drink spots
18:00<supermop>i would mostly recommend it to live in rather than visit, but there are lots to do around there as well
18:00<supermop>san juan islands olympic peninsula, etc
18:01<supermop>cool architecture and shops in the city
18:01<supermop>lot of my friends from high school and university live there now
18:01<supermop>as well as some of my wife's cousins
18:03<supermop>if you are going to be in Washington State anyway i'd definitely recommend visiting
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18:05<__ln__>i'm in a stage of finding out ideas where to go next, while the timeframe for implementing such trips is probably a few years in the future at least
18:08<__ln__>Washington is one of the 42 states i have not been to yet
18:12<supermop>well might as well go
18:13<supermop>but depending on where you are coming from i would try to incorporate other stuff in washington besides just seattle
18:14<supermop>when i was a kid we occasionally took ~2 wk trips to visit my aunt in oregon, where we would drive from oregon to washington
18:15<supermop>including both time in cities like portland and seattle, as well as lots of time in the mountains, high desert, temperate rainforest, coast etc
18:16<supermop>if you have not spent much time in the northwest, that's the type of trip i would suggest
18:17<__ln__>sounds cool
18:17<supermop>i suggest to do it in sumer when it is not raining
18:17<lorran78>Eddi|zuHause: ?
18:17<supermop>where will you be flying in from?
18:18<supermop>lorran78: he might actually be asleep
18:18<__ln__>finland
18:19<supermop>how long will you be in the US
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18:20<__ln__>well, since i don't have a concrete plan yet, can't say for sure, but ~2 weeks could be realistic.
18:21<lorran78>LOL
18:23<Wolf01>So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
18:24<Wolf01>Just kidding... I'm doing a "backup" of my patches
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18:27<__ln__>speaking of sleeping, gotta do that too, now
18:27<Wolf01>Me too
18:29<Wolf01>nn
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19:37<Flygon_><Wolf01> So, I forked ottd... to make my one with supreme 3d graphics, blackjack and hookers
19:37<Flygon_>The PS1 version already exists
19:37<Flygon_>:B
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19:42<Eddi|zuHause>lorran78: seriously, if those were not enough words to help you find the wikipage with almost the exact title, i can't help you.
19:42<lorran78>oh it's almost the title?
19:43<lorran78>i search for this strange lol
19:54<lorran78>this : GRFID overrides for engines (11) Allows you to provide a list of 'source' and 'target' GRFIDs to let vehicles in the source GRF override those in the target GRF, when dynamic engines is enabled. Each entry is 8 bytes, containing two GRFIDs. Multiple entries can be used, and different GRFs can be set to override the same 'target' GRF, but only the last instance of a 'source' GRF is active. GRFIDs that are not prese
19:54<lorran78>but i am not sure it's answer to my question if all are reset if override ?
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20:06<Eddi|zuHause>no, it's not reset
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>nothing in your grf says "reset this vehicle"
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>you just change this one value
20:07<lorran78>cool then
20:08<Eddi|zuHause>(note the limitation that you can only replace the graphics block as a whole, not individual parts of it. but you don't have a graphics block, so this is not a concern)
20:23<lorran78>okay
20:25<lorran78>my english is not so good so i am trying to understand the GRFID i know it's in header.pnml generally and i thought that is i set the same GRFID in my GRF it would work :/
20:30<Eddi|zuHause>you need your GRFID and the GRFID of the grf you want to override
20:31<Eddi|zuHause>(actually, you can leave out your GRFID)
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>and in the game your grf must be below the one you override
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20:41<_dp_>lorran78, http://pastebin.com/Nndn6CZD
20:41<_dp_>and so on
20:46<lorran78>i thing i understand i try :)
20:48<lorran78>and if i want to override 2 grf i had ; between?
20:48<lorran78>add*
20:49<_dp_>lorran78, no idea, mb try doing second after first
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>you need a new override block for each override
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>actually, you can't override two grfs simultaneously
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21:11<lorran78>ok thx =)
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 30 00:00:39 2016