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#openttd IRC Logs for 2016-12-31

---Logopened Sat Dec 31 00:00:41 2016
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04:49<@Alberth>early wolf today
05:16<andythenorth>such vehicle height levels
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05:24<@Alberth>moin andy
05:24<@Alberth>16 not enough? :)
05:24<Wolf01> I don't think I fully understand this
05:26<Wolf01>It's 2, then becomes 1, then suddenly it is 3!
05:27<Wolf01>Also, I don't think vehicles can change offsets automagically when running on a different roadtype...
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05:59<andythenorth>let him patch and see
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05:59<andythenorth>he’s in this channel sometimes
05:59<andythenorth>he’s done a few patches, dunno if they’re good
06:01<andythenorth>we are short of contributors
06:01<andythenorth>we don’t add bugs fast enough :P
06:02<@Alberth>it is working too much :p
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07:24<ItalyTransport>I have a question: do industries have infinite acceptance? I mean, can sell an infinite amount of cargo to an industry?
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07:25<ItalyTransport>Ok many thanks :)
07:25<V453000>some industry sets can change that, but normally it's that way
07:25<V453000>you are welcome
07:26<ItalyTransport>It's a very good game
07:26<V453000>it is
07:26<ItalyTransport>Ok, thanks again! Happy new year :)
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08:00<@Alberth>upper monthly limit not worth mentioning?
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08:22<Wolf01>Then, what's your new year resolution?
08:22<@Rubidium>the same as this year... 1080p
08:23<Wolf01>Mee to
08:23<Wolf01>*me too
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08:52<@Alberth>hmm, _tar_filelist looks like major name clashes are going to happen
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09:38<Wolf01> Ha! Wrong roadtype
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09:57<Wolf01>Meh, roadtypes which forbid tunnels or bridges... what we have started?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: that should not be a feature
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10:01<Wolf01> bike roadtype... not what you expect
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10:05<@Alberth>could work :)
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>does not look good for the lifetime of the wheel/axle
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10:21<__ln__>on the other hand bikes can easily do 40 km/h with a 100 kg person sitting on them, while in that video there isn't even any load on the wheel.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>it's also running significantly faster than 40km/h
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't think the wearing forces grow linear
10:25<Wolf01> going to buy 12 of these
10:26<__ln__>yes, sure it's going much faster than 40 km/h
10:38<peter1139>the tyre would not last long
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10:47<andythenorth>Wolf01: I am building a tow truck
10:47<andythenorth>for my 5 year old
10:48<andythenorth>been sat on the floor for 3 days :P
10:48<andythenorth>it’s like 8285, but newer and stronger
10:49<andythenorth>also this is my favourite lego part ever,%20Axle%20and%20Pin%20Connector%20Perpendicular%20Split&category=%5BTechnic,%20Connector%5D#T=C
10:53<andythenorth>so…did a new scenario format ever happen? o_O
10:54<@Alberth>working on that :)
10:54<Wolf01>Yeah, that part is really useful
10:56<Wolf01>Ok, I wasn't able to finish the year without buying some lego... 15 sets
11:04<andythenorth>I have spent 6 days now building lego for my kids
11:04<andythenorth>I have had enough :P
11:04*andythenorth wonders about GS -> newgrf
11:06<andythenorth>wondering if I can reliably sniff FIRS industries
11:06<andythenorth>I could generate a json file from FIRS to give a manifest of all the industry types
11:08<@Alberth>what do you gain if you know it's FIRS, in the GS?
11:09<andythenorth>gameplay-related choices
11:09<andythenorth>can choose to develop some industries, not others
11:09<andythenorth>narrative basically
11:10<@Alberth>how does that fail with eg default industries?
11:10<andythenorth>I choose not to care :)
11:10<andythenorth>FIRS-specific GS
11:10*andythenorth could even generate it in the FIRS repo :P But that’s probably unwise
11:11<@Alberth>sure, but what is specifically needed in a GS for your idea?
11:11<andythenorth>I am starting from the implementation details :P
11:11<andythenorth>I have no idea
11:11<@Alberth>fair enough :)
11:12<@Alberth>have you considered playing the goal-based city grow thingie?
11:12<andythenorth>some kind of progression, like seeding regions of the map
11:12<andythenorth>start with forests for example
11:12<andythenorth>then develop mines and so on
11:12<@Alberth>and GS spawns industries, I assume
11:13<@Alberth>could work
11:13<andythenorth>yes GS spawns them
11:14<andythenorth>I want to start on one corner or side of the map and work across
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11:14<andythenorth>I’ve no idea if it’s a good mechanic in ottd
11:14<andythenorth>but eh, experiments
11:14<@Alberth>only one way to find out :)
11:16<andythenorth>can get the industry ID
11:16<andythenorth>could just assume it’s FIRS
11:17<@Alberth>for first experiments, just assume user loads the correct FIRS :)
11:21<Milek7>cargo ids are discoverable, so you can find industry id by matching input and output cargos
11:22<__ln__>peter1139: bike tyres last for thousands of kilometers of normal use, how would a nearly frictionless operation at high speed make them not last long
11:24<andythenorth>Industry ID is in the API
11:25<andythenorth>oh maybe that’s an instance, not a type
11:27<andythenorth>that should work, no?
11:28<andythenorth>it’s fairly useless though, unless somebody changes the approach to GS :)
11:28<Milek7>but it isn't stable
11:28<Milek7>probably can change in new versions of newgrfs
11:28<andythenorth>shit happens
11:29<andythenorth>I control the newgrf, so eh :)
11:29<Milek7>and also changes when user loads some other industry-adding newgrf
11:29<andythenorth>users shouldn’t do that
11:29<Milek7>but do :)
11:29<andythenorth>yeah, ok
11:29<andythenorth>ok, well they can’t play with my GS then
11:29<andythenorth>when I eventually write it :P
11:30<andythenorth>this ongoing refusal to tie GS to newgrf is one reason why there are so few GS
11:30<andythenorth>GS was one of the best features added to openttd
11:31<V453000>users evul, exterminate
11:31<Milek7>i think matching input/output cargos is only way to identify industries realibly
11:33<andythenorth>someone here was trying to get industry IDs recently
11:33<V453000>probably dp
11:33<andythenorth>they’re pooled, so it wasn’t reliable
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11:40<_dp_>yeah, I ended up adding it to newgrf debug windown in citymania client:
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11:41<V453000>how did the event go btw? :)
11:42<_dp_>meh, no one was strong enough to last till the end %)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27719 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2016-12-31 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish: 25 changes by nouwak
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14:17<andythenorth>_dp_: be useful if that was in trunk
14:17<andythenorth>needs a cherrypick :P
14:17<andythenorth>probably today is a bad day to get it reviewed :)
14:20<LordAro>andythenorth: well, there's going to be a lot of out of date years in the codebase shortly
14:24<@Alberth>we just extend the year :p
14:33<__ln__>opinions on the new series, Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency?
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14:41<MonkeyDrone>__ln__: definitely worth the watch
14:43<MonkeyDrone>i compile openttd in MS VS 2015 CE. It comfiles it but then when i run it, i get htis error.
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14:44<MonkeyDrone>googlefu has failed me
14:47<@Alberth>you should compile everything, not just openttd
14:48<@Alberth>there are other projects, like the language file compiler, that generate languagepacks for the program
14:48<MonkeyDrone>i did tell it to compile the whole thing, let me double check
14:48<@Alberth>not sure how it's called, "solution" or so, I think
14:48<@Alberth>nice microsoft speak
14:49<__ln__>MonkeyDrone: yeah, i think so too, after having watched it. not necessarily that adamsish, but nevertheless.
14:49<@Alberth>have a look at the wiki with an older VS
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14:51<MonkeyDrone>Alberth: will do so, although I have clearly told it to compilte the whole thing. it needs a few minuets
14:52<@Alberth>I don't have Windows, so no idea, mostly
14:52<@Alberth> 2015 even exists
14:54<@Rubidium>I think that the language files are not put in a relative folder to the debug/release build folder, but to the right location compared to the other files. I think copying the executable to the right location (bin/) should help
15:00<Wolf01>Strange, for me vs2015 compiles OTTD almost out of box, I only have to provide the libraries and I learnt to do that via the .user.proj
15:02<MonkeyDrone>Rubidium: it compiles without any errors, only some warnings about 64bit thing,
15:03<MonkeyDrone>Alberth: I followed that wiki and have it running.
15:06<MonkeyDrone>only compile warnings i get is Warning C4334 '<<': result of 32-bit shift implicitly converted to 64 bits (was 64-bit shift intended?) openttd C:\Users\abbas\Documents\Repositories\1.6.1\src\genworld_gui.cpp 290
15:08<MonkeyDrone>build log
15:08<@Rubidium>well, the error is typical for not finding the language files in the lang folder compared to the executable. From back when I built the Windows version of the CF I seem to have remembered the MSVC build process not copying the exe from the release/debug folder to the folder where the lang folder is in (IIRC bin)
15:09<@Rubidium>it has nothing to do with compilations errors or issues, except maybe the build process not putting everything that is needed in a neat single location for MSVC
15:10<@Rubidium>which is why the build farm uses a Makefile after the actual building to get everything packaged up nicely for consumption by Windows users
15:11<MonkeyDrone>Rubidium: so you recommend i figure out how to package the build output for it to run properly then
15:18<MonkeyDrone>it's supposed to create individual file for each language correct?
15:51<Milek7>last time when i checked vs2015 .sln in repo worked without problems
15:53<MonkeyDrone>it worked, sweet. Now I just want to figure out that my compiled version is 1.6.1 so it can connect online
15:55<MonkeyDrone>wiki instructions for older one are much better
16:03<@Alberth>what version did you download/checked-out ?
16:05<@Alberth>also, wouldn't it be simpler to get the binary download instead of building it yourself?
16:06<MonkeyDrone>I am just experimenting, trying to see if I can get polytool working for me on 1.6.1
16:08<@Alberth>then it's not 1.6.1 anymore
16:08<@Alberth>and won't work in multi-player
16:08<MonkeyDrone>ah ok, thanks Alberth.
16:09<MonkeyDrone>I have other plans for it, will see If I can code / mod the game in other ways.
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16:21*andythenorth wonders if ships have animation state
16:21<andythenorth>might be able to use frosch’s new multi-layered vehicle sprites
16:22<andythenorth>animated wakes
16:25<V453000>the day FISH suddenly grew in filesize 10000%
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16:25<Milek7>Alberth: afair polyline tool don't break compatibility
16:26<V453000>yeah I think the novapolis client had it, right?
16:26<V453000>not sure though
16:35<andythenorth>FISH are all dead
16:35<andythenorth>actual fish are mostly dead, thermometer in the tank was wrong :P
16:35<andythenorth>didn’t all happen at once, it’s taken most of this year :P
16:36<andythenorth>some were tougher than others
16:44<andythenorth>ships ships ships
16:45*andythenorth hopes to draw 8 standard hulls, and do magic with compositing the rest of the ship
16:52<V453000>hope is good
16:52<andythenorth>a new hope
17:00*V453000 is busy AF designing the best factorio defensive wall ever
17:01<MonkeyDrone>yes polyline is client only
17:01<V453000>best new years eve
17:01<MonkeyDrone>so i don't see it being an issue, its just the version check that would stop me from joining a server
17:01<MonkeyDrone>hah V453000, mine went by an hour ago, figuring out ottd compiling :P
17:09<Milek7>leap second in two hours ;p
17:10<Wolf01>Millennium bug :O
17:12<__ln__>is there a clock application that actually shows a leap second?
17:13<Wolf01>I think they all will be synced at the next ntp call
17:14<__ln__>errr.. you can't just move the clock one whole second as a result of an ntp call.
17:15<Wolf01>But I think I've seen a 0:00:60 in some chinese clock happening way too often, which ended up in like 5 minutes at day of desync
17:16<__ln__>the whole idea of ntp is that the clock doesn't jump by crazy amounts such as 1 second
17:18<Wolf01>Oh, but your pc won't get synced by just 1 second, more like 3 seconds every day
17:19<Milek7>linux handles it by repeating 59 second twice
17:19<Wolf01>I remember when I was on win7 and ntp default server didn't work, my pc was desynced by 2 minutes against my phone
17:20<__ln__>Wolf01: just because the default ntp implementation in Windows is crappy, it doesn't mean that's how ntp is supposed to work.
17:20<Wolf01>This about 1 month after install, then I remembered to change the server
17:21<__ln__>Wolf01: i don't suppose you remembered to change the SpecialPollInterval?
17:21<Wolf01>No, it was the server unreachable
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17:22<__ln__>so you have not adjusted SpecialPollInterval at all
17:23<__ln__>so your pc clock gets synced from ntp once a week?
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17:27<Wolf01>Maybe even once a month
17:27<Wolf01>Last execution was on 16/12
17:27<peter1139>once a week? heh
17:28<__ln__>could be once a fortnight
17:29<__ln__>i took this photo and only later realized there's something odd about it:
17:30<Wolf01>Taken while the second changed, the top part was scanned by the sensor just before the change :P
17:31<V453000>microwave for cesium :D
17:31<V453000>WITH TIME
17:31<__ln__>the upper display is in local time and the other in UTC, but i think the seconds should match regardless :)
17:33<andythenorth>bye :)
17:33<Wolf01> __ln__, look at the eyes
17:33<andythenorth>hmm, my 6 year old swears he managed to beat the mirror once
17:33<andythenorth>he said it was laggy
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17:35<__ln__>Wolf01: there are different sensors, too
17:38<Milek7>how much atomic clocks cost? :D
17:39<@Alberth>too much
17:39<__ln__>more than the regular too much
17:39<V453000>want to wear it
17:39<V453000>ultimate swag
17:40<Wolf01> <- you could start wearing something like this
17:40<Wolf01>This costs just "regular too much"
17:41<__ln__>Wolf01: (taken using the same camera) shouldn't the propeller look silly if the sensor was providing data from different moments of time
17:43<Wolf01>Yes it should, then it's just a time offset, maybe really small and you figured to catch it with your camera
17:44<peter1139>exposure time can affect things too
17:45<Wolf01> 10/10 would wear
17:46<__ln__>admittedly the atomic clock photo has a much longer exposure (1/15s) than the other, but if it was about that, we should see some remains of the digit 8 on the lower screen.
17:55<Wolf01>So, 5 minutes to leap second here, let's see what happens
17:57<Wolf01>Meh, italian tv already in 2017 since 3 minutes ago
18:00<Wolf01>Nothing happened
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18:06<Wolf01>So, happy new year to living beings on CET :P
18:07<Wolf01>I'll wait for GMT ones then I'll disappear for some hours
18:08<__ln__>Wolf01: surely the leap second is added at midnight UTC?
18:08<__ln__>i.e. not yet
18:09<Wolf01>They said midnight, newspapers didn't say which midnight, for sure they don't even know that
18:10<@Alberth>for us it's 1:00, so it's UTC mid-night :)
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18:11<__ln__>so we still have 49 minutes to decide how we are going to spend it.
18:11<Wolf01>By looking at the clock?
18:12<V453000>cock is fine, I looked
18:23<LordAro>(͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
18:23<Wolf01>Bah, ugly font, it seem like a bat
18:24<LordAro>was that not what you were going for? :p
18:24<Wolf01>But meh
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19:00<Wolf01>Nothing happened
19:00<peter1139> Clock: inserting leap second 23:59:60 UTC
19:00<Wolf01>Btw, happy new year!
19:09<Wolf01>And since I promised it, night all too!
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19:15<Mazur>Happy new year, everybody!
19:16<LordAro>hippo new year!
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22:13<ST2>1st of all: a good 2017 to us all :)
22:13<ST2>is only me that giving 502 Bad Gateway?
22:16<Redirect_Left>I get bad gateway too
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22:41<ST2>hmmm, 2017 not being OpenTTD friendly :S
22:42<ST2>or server got lost because 2017 has 1 second more?
22:43<+glx>only www seems broken
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22:56-!-DDR is "David" on #openttd
---Logclosed Sun Jan 01 00:00:42 2017