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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-01-04

---Logopened Wed Jan 04 00:00:46 2017
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06:10<frosch123>supermop: there are separate underlay and overlay sprites. tracks are overlay, other stuff is underlay
06:56<Eddi|zuHause>why, oh youtube, would you think i would be interested in "Top 10 celebrities who dissed Taylor Swift"?
06:57<__ln__>perhaps that's the only video not containing music and therefore available in germany
06:57<Eddi|zuHause>they solved that.
06:58<__ln__>admittedly i had read something like that in the news
06:58<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/youtube-und-gema-einigen-sich-nach-langem-streit-a-1119133.html
06:59<Eddi|zuHause>that's like two months ago
07:00<__ln__>so now you can finally watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5ROpjRAU
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>(do i really want to click on that?)
07:02<__ln__>completely sfw, and way better than the 3rd hobbit
07:03<__ln__>and a great song
07:13<LordAro>"way better than the 3rd hobbit" not exactly a high bar
07:21<V453000>XD
07:22<V453000>germany not having much fun on youtube with music?
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08:44<Wolf01>o/
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08:48<supermop>yo
08:49<supermop>frosch123: that's a layered psd file here, with separate tracks and ground
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09:04<supermop>hmm why is there a purple pixel on the chips mud tile
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09:08<supermop>chips sources have a deprecated sand tile
09:08<supermop>i assume to replace mud in desert
09:09<supermop>also tram tracks set into mud look pretty weird without any trackbed
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09:26<supermop>do i need to provide separate level crossing sprites, base set style?
09:36<frosch123>nope
09:36<frosch123>level crossing belong to the railtype
09:40<supermop>cool
09:40<supermop>so just the regular flat bits, slopes, junctions, 6 depot sprites...
09:41<supermop>tunnels?
09:41<supermop>town sidewalks?
09:44<frosch123>you also need bridges and drive-in stop underlays (unless tram)
09:44<frosch123>depot is optional
09:45<supermop>bridges as in the whole bridge, or the deck that get underlaid onto the bridge?
09:45<frosch123>the overlay that is drawn over the bridge graphics
09:45<frosch123>it is slightly narrower than the regular road
09:46<supermop>ok
09:46<supermop>well clearly i dont want that to be mud
09:47<supermop>can i just reuse the base set bridge overlays
09:48<supermop>as in can i not provide and fall back on them?
09:48<V453000>omg bridges
09:48<V453000>stomach just flipped
09:49<V453000>brain froze
09:49<V453000>eyes crossed
09:49<frosch123>no, bridge overlays are required
09:51<supermop>ok well ogfx ones are gpl so ill use those for now
09:51<supermop>can't think of any reason why i'd want them to look distinct
09:52<supermop>but dont need sidewalks or tunnels?
09:52<frosch123>all the nrt sprites are drawn on top of the regular sprites
09:52<frosch123>so, just make the bridge overlays transparent
09:52<frosch123>and you will see the regular bridge
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09:54<supermop>nice
10:06<supermop>what exactly is HAUL road supposed to be
10:07<supermop>is it a specially strong road for very heavy trucks, or is the pavement less thick because it is for mining trucks with high flotation tires?
10:09<frosch123>i think it is strong underground, but no fancy surface
10:10<supermop>so in a muddy or cobblestone yard area, the HAUL trucks would still need special pavement, and not drive on the dirt/bricks
10:10<frosch123>HAUL vehicles cannot drive on any other road, regular vehicles cannot drive on HAUL
10:11<frosch123>off-road vehicles which can drive on dirt, can also drive on HAUL
10:11<supermop>but haul vehicles cannot drive off road
10:11<frosch123>exactly
10:12<supermop>so any additional type of haul road, needs to also be reinforced like Haul
10:13<supermop>maybe i'll draw it as a concrete slab then
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10:22<@Alberth>o/
10:23<supermop>yo Alberth
10:29<Wolf01>o/
10:32<supermop>the isr truck parking stripes are not consistent
10:33<supermop>>:(
10:33<supermop>means i need to draw my own
10:34<@Alberth>improve isr?
10:36<supermop>in \ direction the caution stripes go away from the roadway, and in / direction the stripes go towards the roadway
10:38<@Alberth>stripes are a bit indecisive :)
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11:32<supermop>i wonder if chips asphalt stripes should be yellow like isr, or white to look more british
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11:34<@Alberth>given its author, my guess is the latter
11:34<frosch123>andy uses ae terms all the time
11:36<frosch123>like "reefer car"
11:37<@Alberth>ttd does that too
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12:15<supermop>http://imgur.com/a/KwXMM
12:18<supermop>isr-ish
12:19<supermop>now to make some isr slopes
12:20<@Alberth>isr is with all those high platforms in the shape of a silo, etc?
12:20<@Alberth>so you can't even see the train? ;p
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>i don't thonk i've played in english since the TT demo
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12:24<supermop>Alberth: yeah it has those, but i mostly use a lot of the low gravel freight yard tiles
12:25<supermop>people seem to like to use it and matching newobjects to build harbors and terminals
12:25<supermop>so it might look nice to have a road type that looks like part of the yard
12:26<supermop>now.. how to paint stripes on stones and mud
12:33<@Alberth>use ribbon :)
12:34<supermop>i thought about that.. survey stakes with orange or magenta tape between
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>just put tyre tracks in the mud?
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13:12<supermop>turn the tram tracks dark brown in photoshop?
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13:40<frosch123>supermop: Alberth: Wolf01: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes <- want to check for readability?
13:42<supermop>"There are no vehicles which require obth 3rd rail and catenary"
13:42<supermop>TYPO
13:43<supermop>oops
13:44<supermop>can road or rail types not yet provide a specific foundation?
13:45<frosch123>no, but could add that to the todo list
13:46<supermop>not sure it is needed yet, but maybe someone someday would like it
13:46<Wolf01>I don't undertand clearly the example 2, I mean the concept yes, but the sentence is a bit twisted
13:46<Wolf01>Maybe just use labels instead of the dscription
13:47<@Alberth>Roadtype and Tramtype labels: independently of each other next to each other in the same game and NewGRF. -> independently of each other, in the same game or in the same NewGRF.
13:48<Wolf01>Also, I would like to reason more on the roadsides, I would like to have country roads with trees :P
13:49<@Alberth>default openttd labels should specify whether they allow level crossings
13:49<supermop>i would maybe lose the language about future noclip vehicles
13:49<Wolf01>Maybe is possible to draw the fence as trees, but it's a bit forced
13:50<supermop>as the example states, pursuing elevated railways as a type of ground level tram fails in ways users would not expect
13:50<@Alberth>last 2 sentences of the Roadtype and Tramtype labels need more explanation imho
13:50<supermop>eg no tram under monorail etc
13:51<@Rubidium>frosch123: have you done a replace all of some word to Roadtype? I'm seeing quite a few places where there's inconsistent casing, e.g. FEAT_RoadtypeS, Roadtype_FLAG_CATENARY, powered_Roadtype_list
13:51<frosch123>yeah, i did :p
13:53<@Rubidium>regarding building by towns, shouldn't (European) towns (re)build old-style roads within inner cities? After all, in most old city centres there's mostly cobblestones and the likes
13:53<@Alberth>Compatibility/Poweredness says you have to specify compatibility, perhaps show the specification of that? now the text bullits seem to be the specification to me
13:55<@Alberth>I'd keep vehicletypes out of tram & road types, especially as it's future
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13:59<frosch123>Alberth: no idea how to word it differently
13:59<@Alberth>Global NewGRF stuff, NML: "Roadtypetable" <- lowercase R, I think?
13:59<frosch123>removing the vehicle-only type would mean to remove example 2, and i think combining vehicle and track types makes it more easy to understand
13:59<@Alberth>frosch123: the "need more explanation" ?
14:00<frosch123>Alberth: i fixed the capitalisation already, reload :)
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14:03<@Alberth>o/ andy
14:04<Wolf01>o/
14:04<@Alberth>NewGRF headings like "Road-/Tramtype translation table:" make it italic, so it doesn't look like normal text
14:05<andythenorth>lo
14:05<@Alberth>or make NFO & NML a table
14:07<@Alberth>leave example 2 in, it's in the TODO list :)
14:07<frosch123>andythenorth: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes <- want to check for readability?
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14:08<andythenorth>:)
14:08<@Alberth>that's all
14:08<supermop>you andythenorth
14:08<supermop>i am making chips roads
14:08*andythenorth reading
14:08<supermop>s/you/yo
14:08<@Alberth>hmm, not entire "TODO", there is also "current status"
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14:14<supermop>not crazy about white paint onchips cobble
14:14<supermop>http://imgur.com/a/F6hEN
14:14<andythenorth>I don’t follow the transitivity, the diagram seems at odds with the text to me :)
14:14<andythenorth>supermop: do white stones :P
14:14<frosch123>andythenorth: you mean i shall add all the arrows?
14:15<andythenorth>or ruts :P
14:15<andythenorth>frosch123: the example is unclear to me because the compatibility lists aren’t shown
14:15<andythenorth>how does OFFR drive on ELRD?
14:16<frosch123>so another table with ! Roadtype !! Powered roadtype list ! ?
14:16<andythenorth>not sure
14:16<andythenorth>maybe yes
14:17<supermop>andythenorth: was thinking cobbles maybe get stone curbs or gutters?
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14:19<supermop>and HAUL on cobble, if needed, gets concrete slab
14:21<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Compatibility.2FPoweredness <- better?
14:21<andythenorth>yes
14:22<andythenorth>something else that I think will come up, judging by forums, is confusion about tram catenary powering road and vice versa
14:23<andythenorth>it’s maybe not obvious that catenary is (1) just graphics, not power (2) that tram and road power are orthogonal
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14:23<andythenorth>otherwise done? o_O :)
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14:26<@Alberth>your graph contradicts with the "is not transitive" notion :p
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14:28<andythenorth>nah :)
14:28<andythenorth>the table shows how it works
14:28<andythenorth>*types, never confusing, ever :P
14:28<andythenorth>whoever made that rocket science spec, should not be allowed near rockets
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14:42<supermop>are one way arrows, do not enter graphics, etc provided by road type?
14:42<frosch123>currently no
14:43<frosch123>i don't quite see the value in them currently
14:43<@Alberth>one-way pipes :p
15:04<supermop>american road set uses a bulldozer and hole as 'do not enter'
15:04<supermop>but an urban city street might look better with bollards and pedestrian area, or sign for do not enter
15:05<supermop>and dirt road might look nicer with gate or cattle grid
15:06<supermop>at any rate, painting white arrows on a dirt road looks a bit odd
15:14<@Alberth>one-way roads don't have much meaning anyway
15:15<@Alberth>it's not like you suddenly get the double capacity
15:15<V453000>half in fact :P
15:15<V453000>but yeah one way roads are nice only for better control/system
15:15<V453000>evening gentlemen
15:15<@Alberth>depending on how you look at it, but yep :)
15:16<@Alberth>evenink
15:16<@Alberth>you could make one tile of asphalt, and put the arrow on that :)
15:17*andythenorth thinks one-way-roads are 100% useless
15:17<andythenorth>I’ve tried them a lot
15:18<andythenorth>with RVs, you either have enough station bays, or you don’t
15:18<_dp_>they're useful for trapping vehicles ^^
15:18<supermop>i use them to keep buses wandering over level crossings
15:18<andythenorth>there are no routing tricks afaict
15:18<V453000>haha andythenorth
15:19<V453000>there are
15:19<V453000>but it's generally just fucking with penalties
15:19<andythenorth>“screenshots or it didn’t happen” :P
15:19<V453000>ok
15:19<V453000>game on
15:20<V453000>https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/7/74/Psg229.png
15:20<V453000>self regulating road station
15:20<V453000>all RVs wait together and then go load all at the same time
15:21<V453000>occupied bus stops can serve as penalties so they make other vehicles go elsewhere
15:21<V453000>etc
15:21<V453000>with 1way roads you can just control the flow better
15:21<andythenorth>crazy talk :P
15:22<V453000>you asked for it :P
15:22<andythenorth>self-inflicted
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15:39<supermop>mostly i use the do not enter in towns
15:40*andythenorth just builds trucks and sends them places
15:40<andythenorth>very unleet
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15:43<supermop>where it might look nice to have a level crossing, but i dont want anything wandering over it
15:46*andythenorth never thought of that
15:47<andythenorth>I pretty much bridge or plant signs to stop the RV destruction
15:47<andythenorth>hmm
15:47<andythenorth>crossings that are banned to articulated vehicles? o_O
15:47<supermop>sometimes bridge looks tacky in a quaint little town
15:48<supermop>as does a giant red circle on the road
16:02<supermop>i understand it might be a low priority
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16:30<frosch123>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Regular_tiles <- added a composition image
16:38<frosch123>andythenorth: i added a post to the forum thread, do you want to add a link to the first post?
16:38<Wolf01>Wow, nice
16:58<andythenorth>frosch123: will do now
16:59<andythenorth>frosch123: done
16:59<andythenorth>also, afaict, grfcodec just works
16:59<andythenorth>that’s as expected?
16:59<frosch123>yes, we do not care about nforenum
16:59<frosch123>s/we/i/
17:00<andythenorth>fair
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17:09<supermop>frosch123: nice image
17:10<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks for the docs
17:10*andythenorth must to bed
17:10<Wolf01>Me too
17:10<andythenorth>bye :)
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17:11<frosch123>as well :)
17:11<frosch123>night
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17:13<Wolf01>'night
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17:24<supermop>now only v is left to tell me my ideas are crazy
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17:38<Eddi|zuHause>i could tell you your idea is crazy
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>but i am usually of the opposite opinion from V
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17:47<supermop>that works
17:47<supermop>well each of you usually will tell me my idea is crazy for opposite reasons
17:53<Lejving>can we seriously get a checkbox to turn off bridge speed similar to wagon speed
18:00<supermop>bridge newgrf with cheap infinite speed bridges
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18:19<supermop>ok going to go buy a surface
18:20<supermop>later
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>poor you
18:24<Supercheese>Welllll then
18:24<Supercheese>might have to recode Fake Subways for NotRoadTypes
18:26<Supercheese>can use "current_tramtype" to transition between underground & aboveground
18:27<Supercheese>although making the actual transition tiles might be tough
18:27<Supercheese>I'll have to rename it to "NotFake Subways"
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>you need state machines for transition tiles
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. it will never(TM) happen
18:36<Supercheese>I'm sure I can hack something up
18:36<Supercheese>it'll still be rather fake
18:36<Supercheese>just some graphics switching
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause>it'll still be "fake" because "subway" vehicles still can't pass surface vehicles
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19:00<Supercheese>yep
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 05 00:00:48 2017