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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-01-07

---Logopened Sat Jan 07 00:00:51 2017
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02:34<andythenorth>o/
02:49<@Alberth>moin
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05:04<V453000>dem rails
05:04<V453000>thanks LordAro
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05:51*andythenorth placates pyflakes
05:51<andythenorth>again
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06:01<andythenorth>ach
06:03<andythenorth>pyflakes hates this import http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/revisions/e0b78fde3d96/entry/src/pixa/__init__.py
06:03<andythenorth>‘unused'
06:05<LordAro>is it wrong? looks unused to me :p
06:06<LordAro>or is __init__ doing something magical?
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06:06<andythenorth>later, elsewhere, I do ‘from pixa import Spritesheet’
06:07<andythenorth>basically my module design sucks
06:07<andythenorth>I could just put all the code in the __init__ :P
06:10<andythenorth>now I have happy pyflakes
06:10<andythenorth>but my imports elsewhere look like ‘from pixa.pixa import Spritesheet, pixascan’
06:10<andythenorth>which is dumb :)
06:10<andythenorth>but eh
06:12<LordAro>ah, i see
06:12<andythenorth>ach pixa doesn’t even need to be a module
06:13*andythenorth simplifies
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06:29<andythenorth>fricking transmitter bollocks
06:29*andythenorth is all happy to help players, but some players can’t help themselves
06:30<andythenorth>“I want a way to circumvent the game rules, but using the cheat menu makes me feel bad”
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07:00<Wolf01>o/
07:01<Wolf01>Bah, I can't talk today... throat ache
07:02<Wolf01>Every day I'm ill in a new way
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07:05<Wolf01>Quak
07:06<frosch123>hoi
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07:15<andythenorth>I looked at the GS proposals again
07:16<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/GS_Area_Control
07:16<andythenorth>^ seems like it might have most interesting gameplay potential
07:16<Wolf01>It has a lot of potential
07:16<andythenorth>some of the other proposals, like controlling individual industries in detail
07:16<andythenorth>are probably too specific to work well in ottd
07:17<Wolf01>I would really like the "Disallow destruction of rivers on the whole map."
07:17<andythenorth>multiple regions? o_O
07:17<andythenorth>some regions cover whole map, some less than whole map
07:17<Wolf01>Why not?
07:17<andythenorth>might be daft
07:17<andythenorth>dunno
07:18<andythenorth>like layers for different gameplay concerns
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07:27<andythenorth>ha ha
07:27*andythenorth loves graphics generation
07:28<andythenorth>it’s fiddly to set up, but boom http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8323/tanker_large_0.png
07:28<andythenorth>5 colours of tanker :P
07:32<andythenorth>frosch123: are the layered vehicle sprites documented? o_O I can’t find them in the obvious places :)
07:36<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites
07:39<andythenorth>thanks
07:39<andythenorth>going to use it for wake sprites
07:39<frosch123>found some copy&paste
07:39<frosch123>it's SHIP_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK :)
07:39<andythenorth>you beat me to it :)
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07:49<andythenorth>it works :o
07:50<andythenorth>ha ha
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07:54<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8324/wakes_poc_sam.png
07:54-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
07:55<Flygon>Why do I feel irrationally angry at OpenTTD having such a flexible palette...
07:55<Flygon>I've been digging too deep into EGA palette <_>
07:55<frosch123>which 16 of the 64 colours did you pick?
07:58<andythenorth>frosch123: using the sprite stack will cut out 30 or so sprites for some ships
07:58<andythenorth>not bad eh
07:58<andythenorth>and I can animate the wakes, bonus
07:58<andythenorth>animated wakes on my non-animated water :P
07:58<frosch123>:)
08:02<andythenorth>using a layer as a bool mask isn’t supported I guess? (to knockout pixels lower down the stack)
08:03<frosch123>no, no image processing in ottd yet
08:03<frosch123>except for recoloring
08:04<frosch123>you can put the lower pixels into a separate sprite
08:04<frosch123>though that may hit the stack size limit
08:05<andythenorth>I can mask at the compilation stage :)
08:05<andythenorth>it’s fine
08:18<andythenorth>frosch123: is my use of registers correct? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pouurpwrj/zcdxem/raw
08:19<andythenorth>works in game
08:20<frosch123>looks fine to me
08:23<andythenorth>ta
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08:33<andythenorth>2 waterline states (empty = high, loaded = full) are enough?
08:33<andythenorth>I could add an intermediate, but eh, overkill?
08:33<andythenorth>loaded = low *
08:34<andythenorth>maybe it should match the number of cargo load states, makes the most sense :P
08:35<Eddi|zuHause>yes, definitely
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10:19<andythenorth>‘return 16’
10:19<andythenorth>that’s a useful method eh?
10:22<Wolf01>Usually is return 4
10:22<Wolf01>With a // chosen from a fair dice roll
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11:19<@Alberth>right, more code than _tar_filelist makes assumptions on unique grf filenames :)
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11:29<LordAro>Alberth: what are you trying to do?
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11:32<@Alberth>loading two g/g.grf files, each in a g.tar file, in a newgrf/a and a newgrf/b directory, each with unique grfid
11:33<@Alberth>I thought that would worj after removing the _tar_filelist map, but it doesn't :)
11:33<@Alberth>*work
11:34<@Alberth>both grfs are found, so the drop is after file scanning
11:34<@Alberth>probably while creating a list of available grfs
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12:40<Democedes>How long should it take The NewGRF server to get to 2160? I might go eat some lunch and join in on thestart if the next game
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12:57<andythenorth>half the work is code
12:57<andythenorth>half the work is drawing
12:57<andythenorth>half the work is where to keep things and how to name them :P
12:57<frosch123>half the work is talking about it
12:58<frosch123>rude :)
12:58<andythenorth>that’s more than half
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13:10<@Alberth>oh, how nice, GrfFileScanner doesn't use the supplied tar filename :)
13:13<ephja>are there any maps that have individual islands for each players? so that you can play competitively without having to rely on rules that disallow sabotage
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>there once was a patch where the map is copied X times so X players each have individual areas to build in
13:15<@Alberth>should be pretty simple to construct in the scenario editor, or with a height map, even
13:15<frosch123>it's called head2head, it's ancient, but still available here: https://www.openttd.org/download-h2h
13:15<ephja>can this be augmented with the help of scripting? I dunno what new functions (if any) have been added since then
13:15<ephja>oh ok. thanks
13:16<frosch123>just make sure to not use any particulary new newgrf
13:16<frosch123>they won't work in that ancient version
13:16<@Alberth>there are also scenarios with mountain ranges between players, afaik
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13:30<ephja>neat
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27720 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2017-01-07 19:45:37 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>turkish: 25 changes by barisdemirdelen
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14:34<Ox4>hello guys. Could somebody help me with cargo income formula?
14:37<Ox4>according to the wiki the amount of money earned when delivering a cargo is determined by four factors: cargo, amount, distance, and days in transit. So what is the "days in transit": when a train leaves the station or when a cargo is placed to the goods van?
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's complicated (tm)
14:37<frosch123>waiting time at station does not count
14:37<frosch123>waiting time in vehicle does count
14:37<frosch123>otherwise you are paid by average travel speed
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>if a cargo is loaded into a vehicle, a counter is increased every 185 ticks (2.5 days)
14:38<frosch123>where waiting in a loading vehicle counts as speed 0
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>(the counter may be changed by the vehicle grf)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>this counter is used as "travel time" in the final formula
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>so when the formula says "days", it actually means "2.5 days"
14:43<Ox4>wow, I didn't know about 185 ticks :)
14:43<Ox4>thank you guys
14:45<Ox4>one more question about cargo amount generation. Is there a formula?
14:45<Lejving>usr RV and call it formula 1
14:50<Ox4>RV?
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>cargo generation (short version): every primary industry has a "production level", and produces that amount every 256 ticks (8 or 9 times per month), and it randomly halves or doubles its production. secondary industries (usually) produce 1 output cargo for each input cargo. both of these values are multiplied by your station rating
14:54<Lejving>rv = road vehicle :P
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14:57<+glx>"(usually)" means classic industries, not newgrf ones :)
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15:09<andythenorth>meh
15:09<andythenorth>now I have to do ship offsets for 4 different lengths
15:09<andythenorth>yak shaving
15:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if a ship is 128px long in the – view, what should the offsets be :P
15:10<andythenorth>for a given length, it should be a calculation, not alignment by eye? o_O
15:12<frosch123>depend on in which point does it turn
15:12<frosch123>i think somewhere between middle and back
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15:16<Eddi|zuHause>i honestly have no clue
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15:20<andythenorth>I’ll do it by eye :P
15:21<andythenorth>one day I’ll look up the offsets in ottd, and calculate them for all vehicle lengths :P
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16:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27721 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:18:17 +0100 )
16:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Testing GRFs for static-safety (when reloading the config) invalidated file slot 62, which may be in use by an active GRF.
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16:20<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27722 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-01-07 22:20:02 +0100 )
16:20<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r7490): GCF_SYSTEM was never set correctly.
16:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27723 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:22:26 +0100 )
16:22<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify tests by using GCF_SYSTEM.
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16:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27724 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2017-01-07 22:28:03 +0100 )
16:28<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: Remove pointless usage of IsOpenTTDBaseGRF. System GRFs are never listed in the NewGRF GUI.
16:31<SpComb>why is there no infrastructure sharing in OpenTTD 1.6.1 :(
16:34<ephja>does the train-stations-around-a-town growth trick work well still?
16:34<ephja>maybe I just chose a crappy city
16:34<frosch123>is does not need to be train stations
16:34<frosch123>it must be 5 stations, and they must be services
16:34<frosch123>easiest are bus stops
16:35<frosch123>and 2 busses running in circle
16:35<ephja>doesn't the wiki show a screenshot with 4 train stations? is it up-to-date?
16:36<Wolf01>Any number of stations is good, 5 is better for starting
16:36<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27725 /trunk/src (4 files) (2017-01-07 22:36:25 +0100 )
16:36<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Remove IsOpenTTDBaseGRF and test for GCF_CONFIG instead, which does the same in all use-cases.
16:36<ephja>I see. thanks
16:37<frosch123>5 serviced stations give the maximum bonus
16:38<Wolf01>If the city is too small it could be difficult to cram 5 stations in it, so 2 are good too, while the city expands you can add more stations
16:38<ephja>indeed
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17:10<andythenorth>ho
17:11<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8325/false-colour-hulls-sam.png
17:12<andythenorth>nice eh? :D
17:12<frosch123>looks false
17:13<frosch123>is the upper one new? or do i just not recognise it?
17:13<andythenorth>it’s a tanker
17:14<andythenorth>this is over-engineering, but I will draw each hull type only once this way
17:14<andythenorth>and then replace the green with the hull
17:14<andythenorth>it wouldn’t be necessary, except that some of the hull shapes suck currently
17:14<andythenorth>the green is the old/current/crappy hulls, as a drawing guide
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17:17<ephja>oh, right. useless road construction -.-
17:18<ephja>well, if you apply it to an area occupied primarily by yourself atm
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17:34<__ln__>wait a minute
17:35<__ln__>ok, one minute is up. continue what you were doing.
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17:41<SpComb>bah, you can't even buy 100% of shares in a multiplayer game?
17:42<SpComb>multiplayer games with cargodist is a bit :( because you can't transfer passengers between companies, or merge companies
17:50<ephja>is there a convenient way of finding the towns that have the best growth conditions? if it even matters that much in the end
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>no, only the largest towns
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18:32<@planetmaker>SpComb, you *can* transfer any cargo between companies. All you need to do is give them a trip to an oil rig :)
18:32<SpComb>convenient
18:32<@planetmaker>adventure tours
18:32<SpComb>but there would be more to multiplayer + cargodist if you could transfer pax between companies
18:32<@planetmaker>it's actually interesting when cargodist decides on its own that it wants to use such route
18:33<@planetmaker>well, you can
18:33<@planetmaker>via oil rig :)
18:33<@planetmaker>but only one player gets to be paid
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18:46<Wolf01>'night
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18:55<_dp_>ephja, what growth conditions are you looking for? They are the same for all towns as I see it
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20:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, growth is handled differently for towns and cities, and the number of stations might be different as well
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>it'll be more difficult to factor in geographic limitations like terrain blocked by tracks or mountains
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>and you're basically doomed if a game script comes into play
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---Logclosed Sun Jan 08 00:00:52 2017