| --- | Log | opened Sat Jan 07 00:00:51 2017 |
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| 02:34 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 02:49 | <@Alberth> | moin |
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| 05:04 | <V453000> | dem rails |
| 05:04 | <V453000> | thanks LordAro |
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| 05:51 | * | andythenorth placates pyflakes |
| 05:51 | <andythenorth> | again |
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| 06:01 | <andythenorth> | ach |
| 06:03 | <andythenorth> | pyflakes hates this import http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/revisions/e0b78fde3d96/entry/src/pixa/__init__.py |
| 06:03 | <andythenorth> | ‘unused' |
| 06:05 | <LordAro> | is it wrong? looks unused to me :p |
| 06:06 | <LordAro> | or is __init__ doing something magical? |
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| 06:06 | <andythenorth> | later, elsewhere, I do ‘from pixa import Spritesheet’ |
| 06:07 | <andythenorth> | basically my module design sucks |
| 06:07 | <andythenorth> | I could just put all the code in the __init__ :P |
| 06:10 | <andythenorth> | now I have happy pyflakes |
| 06:10 | <andythenorth> | but my imports elsewhere look like ‘from pixa.pixa import Spritesheet, pixascan’ |
| 06:10 | <andythenorth> | which is dumb :) |
| 06:10 | <andythenorth> | but eh |
| 06:12 | <LordAro> | ah, i see |
| 06:12 | <andythenorth> | ach pixa doesn’t even need to be a module |
| 06:13 | * | andythenorth simplifies |
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| 06:29 | <andythenorth> | fricking transmitter bollocks |
| 06:29 | * | andythenorth is all happy to help players, but some players can’t help themselves |
| 06:30 | <andythenorth> | “I want a way to circumvent the game rules, but using the cheat menu makes me feel bad” |
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| 07:00 | <Wolf01> | o/ |
| 07:01 | <Wolf01> | Bah, I can't talk today... throat ache |
| 07:02 | <Wolf01> | Every day I'm ill in a new way |
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| 07:05 | <Wolf01> | Quak |
| 07:06 | <frosch123> | hoi |
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| 07:15 | <andythenorth> | I looked at the GS proposals again |
| 07:16 | <andythenorth> | https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/GS_Area_Control |
| 07:16 | <andythenorth> | ^ seems like it might have most interesting gameplay potential |
| 07:16 | <Wolf01> | It has a lot of potential |
| 07:16 | <andythenorth> | some of the other proposals, like controlling individual industries in detail |
| 07:16 | <andythenorth> | are probably too specific to work well in ottd |
| 07:17 | <Wolf01> | I would really like the "Disallow destruction of rivers on the whole map." |
| 07:17 | <andythenorth> | multiple regions? o_O |
| 07:17 | <andythenorth> | some regions cover whole map, some less than whole map |
| 07:17 | <Wolf01> | Why not? |
| 07:17 | <andythenorth> | might be daft |
| 07:17 | <andythenorth> | dunno |
| 07:18 | <andythenorth> | like layers for different gameplay concerns |
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| 07:27 | <andythenorth> | ha ha |
| 07:27 | * | andythenorth loves graphics generation |
| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | it’s fiddly to set up, but boom http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8323/tanker_large_0.png |
| 07:28 | <andythenorth> | 5 colours of tanker :P |
| 07:32 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: are the layered vehicle sprites documented? o_O I can’t find them in the obvious places :) |
| 07:36 | <frosch123> | https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Composing_vehicles_from_multiple_sprites |
| 07:39 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
| 07:39 | <andythenorth> | going to use it for wake sprites |
| 07:39 | <frosch123> | found some copy&paste |
| 07:39 | <frosch123> | it's SHIP_FLAG_SPRITE_STACK :) |
| 07:39 | <andythenorth> | you beat me to it :) |
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| 07:49 | <andythenorth> | it works :o |
| 07:50 | <andythenorth> | ha ha |
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| 07:54 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8324/wakes_poc_sam.png |
| 07:54 | -!- | Flygon__ is now known as Flygon |
| 07:55 | <Flygon> | Why do I feel irrationally angry at OpenTTD having such a flexible palette... |
| 07:55 | <Flygon> | I've been digging too deep into EGA palette <_> |
| 07:55 | <frosch123> | which 16 of the 64 colours did you pick? |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: using the sprite stack will cut out 30 or so sprites for some ships |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | not bad eh |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | and I can animate the wakes, bonus |
| 07:58 | <andythenorth> | animated wakes on my non-animated water :P |
| 07:58 | <frosch123> | :) |
| 08:02 | <andythenorth> | using a layer as a bool mask isn’t supported I guess? (to knockout pixels lower down the stack) |
| 08:03 | <frosch123> | no, no image processing in ottd yet |
| 08:03 | <frosch123> | except for recoloring |
| 08:04 | <frosch123> | you can put the lower pixels into a separate sprite |
| 08:04 | <frosch123> | though that may hit the stack size limit |
| 08:05 | <andythenorth> | I can mask at the compilation stage :) |
| 08:05 | <andythenorth> | it’s fine |
| 08:18 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: is my use of registers correct? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pouurpwrj/zcdxem/raw |
| 08:19 | <andythenorth> | works in game |
| 08:20 | <frosch123> | looks fine to me |
| 08:23 | <andythenorth> | ta |
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| 08:33 | <andythenorth> | 2 waterline states (empty = high, loaded = full) are enough? |
| 08:33 | <andythenorth> | I could add an intermediate, but eh, overkill? |
| 08:33 | <andythenorth> | loaded = low * |
| 08:34 | <andythenorth> | maybe it should match the number of cargo load states, makes the most sense :P |
| 08:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, definitely |
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| 10:19 | <andythenorth> | ‘return 16’ |
| 10:19 | <andythenorth> | that’s a useful method eh? |
| 10:22 | <Wolf01> | Usually is return 4 |
| 10:22 | <Wolf01> | With a // chosen from a fair dice roll |
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| 11:19 | <@Alberth> | right, more code than _tar_filelist makes assumptions on unique grf filenames :) |
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| 11:29 | <LordAro> | Alberth: what are you trying to do? |
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| 11:32 | <@Alberth> | loading two g/g.grf files, each in a g.tar file, in a newgrf/a and a newgrf/b directory, each with unique grfid |
| 11:33 | <@Alberth> | I thought that would worj after removing the _tar_filelist map, but it doesn't :) |
| 11:33 | <@Alberth> | *work |
| 11:34 | <@Alberth> | both grfs are found, so the drop is after file scanning |
| 11:34 | <@Alberth> | probably while creating a list of available grfs |
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| 12:40 | <Democedes> | How long should it take The NewGRF server to get to 2160? I might go eat some lunch and join in on thestart if the next game |
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| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | half the work is code |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | half the work is drawing |
| 12:57 | <andythenorth> | half the work is where to keep things and how to name them :P |
| 12:57 | <frosch123> | half the work is talking about it |
| 12:58 | <frosch123> | rude :) |
| 12:58 | <andythenorth> | that’s more than half |
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| 13:10 | <@Alberth> | oh, how nice, GrfFileScanner doesn't use the supplied tar filename :) |
| 13:13 | <ephja> | are there any maps that have individual islands for each players? so that you can play competitively without having to rely on rules that disallow sabotage |
| 13:14 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there once was a patch where the map is copied X times so X players each have individual areas to build in |
| 13:15 | <@Alberth> | should be pretty simple to construct in the scenario editor, or with a height map, even |
| 13:15 | <frosch123> | it's called head2head, it's ancient, but still available here: https://www.openttd.org/download-h2h |
| 13:15 | <ephja> | can this be augmented with the help of scripting? I dunno what new functions (if any) have been added since then |
| 13:15 | <ephja> | oh ok. thanks |
| 13:16 | <frosch123> | just make sure to not use any particulary new newgrf |
| 13:16 | <frosch123> | they won't work in that ancient version |
| 13:16 | <@Alberth> | there are also scenarios with mountain ranges between players, afaik |
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| 13:30 | <ephja> | neat |
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| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r27720 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2017-01-07 19:45:37 +0100 ) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from Eints: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | turkish: 25 changes by barisdemirdelen |
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| 14:34 | <Ox4> | hello guys. Could somebody help me with cargo income formula? |
| 14:37 | <Ox4> | according to the wiki the amount of money earned when delivering a cargo is determined by four factors: cargo, amount, distance, and days in transit. So what is the "days in transit": when a train leaves the station or when a cargo is placed to the goods van? |
| 14:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's complicated (tm) |
| 14:37 | <frosch123> | waiting time at station does not count |
| 14:37 | <frosch123> | waiting time in vehicle does count |
| 14:37 | <frosch123> | otherwise you are paid by average travel speed |
| 14:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if a cargo is loaded into a vehicle, a counter is increased every 185 ticks (2.5 days) |
| 14:38 | <frosch123> | where waiting in a loading vehicle counts as speed 0 |
| 14:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (the counter may be changed by the vehicle grf) |
| 14:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | this counter is used as "travel time" in the final formula |
| 14:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so when the formula says "days", it actually means "2.5 days" |
| 14:43 | <Ox4> | wow, I didn't know about 185 ticks :) |
| 14:43 | <Ox4> | thank you guys |
| 14:45 | <Ox4> | one more question about cargo amount generation. Is there a formula? |
| 14:45 | <Lejving> | usr RV and call it formula 1 |
| 14:50 | <Ox4> | RV? |
| 14:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | cargo generation (short version): every primary industry has a "production level", and produces that amount every 256 ticks (8 or 9 times per month), and it randomly halves or doubles its production. secondary industries (usually) produce 1 output cargo for each input cargo. both of these values are multiplied by your station rating |
| 14:54 | <Lejving> | rv = road vehicle :P |
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| 14:57 | <+glx> | "(usually)" means classic industries, not newgrf ones :) |
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| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | meh |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | now I have to do ship offsets for 4 different lengths |
| 15:09 | <andythenorth> | yak shaving |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: if a ship is 128px long in the – view, what should the offsets be :P |
| 15:10 | <andythenorth> | for a given length, it should be a calculation, not alignment by eye? o_O |
| 15:12 | <frosch123> | depend on in which point does it turn |
| 15:12 | <frosch123> | i think somewhere between middle and back |
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| 15:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i honestly have no clue |
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| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | I’ll do it by eye :P |
| 15:21 | <andythenorth> | one day I’ll look up the offsets in ottd, and calculate them for all vehicle lengths :P |
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| 16:18 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r27721 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:18:17 +0100 ) |
| 16:18 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix: Testing GRFs for static-safety (when reloading the config) invalidated file slot 62, which may be in use by an active GRF. |
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| 16:20 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r27722 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2017-01-07 22:20:02 +0100 ) |
| 16:20 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix (r7490): GCF_SYSTEM was never set correctly. |
| 16:22 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r27723 trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp (2017-01-07 22:22:26 +0100 ) |
| 16:22 | <@DorpsGek> | -Codechange: Simplify tests by using GCF_SYSTEM. |
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| 16:28 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r27724 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2017-01-07 22:28:03 +0100 ) |
| 16:28 | <@DorpsGek> | -Cleanup: Remove pointless usage of IsOpenTTDBaseGRF. System GRFs are never listed in the NewGRF GUI. |
| 16:31 | <SpComb> | why is there no infrastructure sharing in OpenTTD 1.6.1 :( |
| 16:34 | <ephja> | does the train-stations-around-a-town growth trick work well still? |
| 16:34 | <ephja> | maybe I just chose a crappy city |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | is does not need to be train stations |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | it must be 5 stations, and they must be services |
| 16:34 | <frosch123> | easiest are bus stops |
| 16:35 | <frosch123> | and 2 busses running in circle |
| 16:35 | <ephja> | doesn't the wiki show a screenshot with 4 train stations? is it up-to-date? |
| 16:36 | <Wolf01> | Any number of stations is good, 5 is better for starting |
| 16:36 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by frosch :: r27725 /trunk/src (4 files) (2017-01-07 22:36:25 +0100 ) |
| 16:36 | <@DorpsGek> | -Codechange: Remove IsOpenTTDBaseGRF and test for GCF_CONFIG instead, which does the same in all use-cases. |
| 16:36 | <ephja> | I see. thanks |
| 16:37 | <frosch123> | 5 serviced stations give the maximum bonus |
| 16:38 | <Wolf01> | If the city is too small it could be difficult to cram 5 stations in it, so 2 are good too, while the city expands you can add more stations |
| 16:38 | <ephja> | indeed |
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| 17:10 | <andythenorth> | ho |
| 17:11 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8325/false-colour-hulls-sam.png |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | nice eh? :D |
| 17:12 | <frosch123> | looks false |
| 17:13 | <frosch123> | is the upper one new? or do i just not recognise it? |
| 17:13 | <andythenorth> | it’s a tanker |
| 17:14 | <andythenorth> | this is over-engineering, but I will draw each hull type only once this way |
| 17:14 | <andythenorth> | and then replace the green with the hull |
| 17:14 | <andythenorth> | it wouldn’t be necessary, except that some of the hull shapes suck currently |
| 17:14 | <andythenorth> | the green is the old/current/crappy hulls, as a drawing guide |
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| 17:17 | <ephja> | oh, right. useless road construction -.- |
| 17:18 | <ephja> | well, if you apply it to an area occupied primarily by yourself atm |
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| 17:34 | <__ln__> | wait a minute |
| 17:35 | <__ln__> | ok, one minute is up. continue what you were doing. |
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| 17:41 | <SpComb> | bah, you can't even buy 100% of shares in a multiplayer game? |
| 17:42 | <SpComb> | multiplayer games with cargodist is a bit :( because you can't transfer passengers between companies, or merge companies |
| 17:50 | <ephja> | is there a convenient way of finding the towns that have the best growth conditions? if it even matters that much in the end |
| 17:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | no, only the largest towns |
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| 18:32 | <@planetmaker> | SpComb, you *can* transfer any cargo between companies. All you need to do is give them a trip to an oil rig :) |
| 18:32 | <SpComb> | convenient |
| 18:32 | <@planetmaker> | adventure tours |
| 18:32 | <SpComb> | but there would be more to multiplayer + cargodist if you could transfer pax between companies |
| 18:32 | <@planetmaker> | it's actually interesting when cargodist decides on its own that it wants to use such route |
| 18:33 | <@planetmaker> | well, you can |
| 18:33 | <@planetmaker> | via oil rig :) |
| 18:33 | <@planetmaker> | but only one player gets to be paid |
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| 18:46 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 18:55 | <_dp_> | ephja, what growth conditions are you looking for? They are the same for all towns as I see it |
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| 20:03 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, growth is handled differently for towns and cities, and the number of stations might be different as well |
| 20:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it'll be more difficult to factor in geographic limitations like terrain blocked by tracks or mountains |
| 20:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and you're basically doomed if a game script comes into play |
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| --- | Log | closed Sun Jan 08 00:00:52 2017 |
