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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-01-08

---Logopened Sun Jan 08 00:00:52 2017
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00:41<BlackFox>Hi, I've got a quick question. Can I stockpile resources on some station (that doesn't accept anything) and will they dissapear if I leave them there?
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01:37<Lejving>can't say for sure BlackFox but I think they'll eventually just disappear yes
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03:17<BlackFox>Lejving: they do dissapear, and it's kinda sucky
03:17<BlackFox>I was going to stockpile tons of oil for the future
03:17<Lejving>ah :(
03:17<Lejving>should be a setting for that
03:17<Lejving>I think that about all the things though =)
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03:33<@Alberth>o/ andy
03:34<@Alberth>and we have too many settings already :)
03:35<adf88>what's the status of "stop accepting cargo button" ?
03:35<adf88>do you know if anyone is working on it
03:35<adf88>?
03:35*andythenorth needs a ‘close dock’ button :P
03:36<andythenorth>adf88: almost nothing is being worked on :)
03:36<adf88>ok ;)
03:36<andythenorth>that’s not a bad thing
03:36<andythenorth>but eh
03:37<andythenorth>there are a lot of code quality things being committed https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=shortlog
03:37<adf88>iknow, i keep track of all changes
03:38<adf88>I have an atom feed on the trunk repo :)
03:38<andythenorth>you have a stack of patches somewhere too?
03:39<adf88>I post all patches on tt-forum
03:40<adf88>an idea came to my mind some time ago
03:41<adf88>ability to refit any vehicle to "void" cargo
03:42<adf88>e.g. you could refit a PAX loco to void to prevent taking PAX from a given station
03:42<adf88>what do you thing?
03:46<Lejving>why not checkboxes? [ ] Wood [ X ] Passengers [ X ] Goods [ ] Copper ore
03:46<Lejving>in the station window
03:47<andythenorth>‘no loading’ doesn’t perform same result? o_O
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03:47<adf88>"no loding PAX but load other" would do...
03:48<adf88>but you can't set loading options on certain type of cargo
03:49<adf88>i realized something :)
03:49<adf88>this is not a way to go
03:49<adf88>:)
03:49<adf88>forget it...
03:49<Lejving>sorry already commited
03:49<Lejving>can't reverse!
03:51<adf88>until we can set refit-at-station order to certain wagons this wouldn't be much of use
03:51<adf88>and ability to set refit options to individual wagons would be too complicated
03:52<andythenorth>I’ve seen the gui for it in other games
03:52<andythenorth>but we’d need a rework
03:52<andythenorth>it would require depot gui + refit orders gui combined
03:52<andythenorth>and it won’t transcend shared orders across different consists
03:53<andythenorth>so all consists in a shared order set would need to be identical
03:53<andythenorth>it’s a big change, and probably, on balance better
03:54<andythenorth>but removing the old shared orders system would be way too much social drama
04:08<andythenorth>Alberth: any chance you could check this out and see if it builds? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/unsinkable-sam/repository
04:08<andythenorth>it’s failing on Jenkins https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/93/console
04:16<Lejving>how much involved do you need to be to be adding commits to openttd?
04:16<Lejving>been thinking I wanted to try contribute but not sure if I want to dedicate my life to it :P
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04:20<@Alberth>adf88: stations stop accepting by themselves nowadays, after a year or 2
04:20<@Alberth>andythenorth: I'll try
04:22<adf88>yes, I know
04:22<adf88>actually the most problematic is the situation
04:22<adf88>when you play on a online game
04:22<adf88>which has vanilla trains
04:22<@Alberth>andythenorth: how do you build?
04:23<adf88>and your loco want to take passangers
04:23<adf88>even thought you don't wan't it
04:23<adf88>and there is no simle way to prevent it
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04:25<andythenorth>Alberth: python 3.4, I just run make
04:26<@Alberth>oh, I have chameleon not installed
04:26<andythenorth>sorry, there are some deps :P
04:27<@Alberth>adf88: yep, I think the only way out is to make orders more precise, by splitting them into smaller pieces, so you can have a number of orders for loading/unloading at the same station
04:28<adf88>that would do too
04:28<adf88>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1108919#p1108919
04:32<adf88>however, it seems a bit overcomplicated
04:32<adf88>i'm not sure if this is the right way to go
04:33<adf88>another, simpler way would be to allow to refit to a "void" cargo
04:34<andythenorth>Lejving: to get anything good into the game takes a bit of dedication :)
04:35<Lejving>heh RIP irl then
04:35<@Alberth>andythenorth: Only persistent error is
04:35<@Alberth>make: *** No rule to make target 'docs/license.txt', needed by 'doc'. Stop.
04:36<andythenorth>Alberth: python 3.4?
04:36<@Alberth>3.5
04:37<andythenorth>dunno what Jenkins uses
04:37<andythenorth>Road Hog and Iron Horse have similar code, which doesn’t fail
04:37<andythenorth>I’ll have to see what’s different there :)
04:37<andythenorth>thanks
04:38<@Alberth>andythenorth: at least if you specify "python3" everywhere in the build
04:39<@Alberth>make the "docs/license.txt" target work?
04:39<andythenorth>I will
04:39<andythenorth>biab ;)
04:39<@Alberth>add a "python --version as command in the makefikle
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04:40<@Alberth>so it echoes its version to the output
04:44<@Alberth>adf88: well, at low level, you don't want to bolt more stuff onto the existing orders, so breaking it up seems the right direction. How to display that to a user will be a major problem then, as you're basically free to do anything you like
04:45<@Alberth>but anyway, with vanilla, you're pretty much doomed
04:48<@Alberth>I am not sure what the problem in MP is, why vanilla is so popular. Sure some people are clueless about pressing "download missing stuff", but that should be fixable with a single entry page, or existing users helping?
04:48<@Alberth>Is it maybe that a different trainset upsets people? Are there servers with eg OpenGfx+ newgrfs? those should not have that problem
04:50<adf88>yep, vanilla veh set is popular
04:52<adf88>do you suggest to change this fact? :D
04:52<@Alberth>I play with it a lot too
04:52<@Alberth>no, I am just wondering why it is
04:53<@Alberth>there is a download button, where you can just download what you are missing, if it's on bananas
04:54<@Alberth>but apparently this is not working in some way
04:54<@Alberth>I can see new users would play vanilla, the game is big enough to play for years with it
04:54<adf88>this puzzels me too
04:54<@Alberth>maybe they never realize download stuff exists at all
04:55<adf88>these alternative sets are really great
04:55<@Alberth>well, it assumes you have an active interest in the game, I think
04:56<@Alberth>if you're a casual gamer, you don't have that
04:56<@Alberth>or you assume "the game handles everything", which is not true
04:57<@Alberth>on the other hand, reddit uses FIRS at least, and I heard it's a popular server too
04:58<@Alberth>but perhaps a different audience
05:00<adf88>in this moment, 6 out of 10 most peopled servers don't use GRF's at all...
05:01<@Alberth>it may depend on what you aim for
05:02<@Alberth>I also hardly use newgrfs
05:02<@Alberth>but I play for making a network for industrial cargo
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05:05<@Alberth>so Nuts and Firs are interesting, Squid for ships, and Chips for platforms
05:05<adf88>almost classic :)
05:05<@Alberth>where alternative trains are Iron horse, or OpenGFX+trains
05:05<@Alberth>and that's about it
05:06<andythenorth>ach Jenkins uses python 3.2.3
05:06<andythenorth>and my python 3.2 is currently broken
05:07<@Alberth>mostly the thing I am missing is a fast backbone train, eg maglev, around 1930-2000, for experiments with map-wide feeders
05:08<andythenorth>when I started playing openttd, I didn’t use grfs for about 4 years
05:08<andythenorth>I thought they were hacks and would break my game
05:08<andythenorth>FWIW
05:09<@Alberth>:)
05:09<SpComb>GRFs are hard because you have to choose
05:10<@Alberth>good point, no simple way to decide what a random GRF provides
05:11*andythenorth https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnOgEYtWcAApmTg.jpg
05:11<+michi_cc>The biggest problem with NewGRFs is that they aren't called mods ;P
05:11<andythenorth>debugging a remote Jenkins is hard :P
05:12<andythenorth>Feature: ‘NewGRF’ is now ‘mod’
05:12<@Alberth>game script is "mod"
05:12<@Alberth>AI is "mod"
05:12<@Alberth>:)
05:14<@Alberth>andythenorth: it doesn't output the Python error?
05:14<andythenorth>it does yes
05:15<andythenorth>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/unsinkable-sam/94/console
05:15<andythenorth>I’m trying to pickle a PIL module
05:15<andythenorth>which works elsewhere
05:16<@Alberth>why would you want to do that?
05:16<andythenorth>I have no explicit reason
05:16<andythenorth>“I’m trying” = my code apparently does that
05:17<@Alberth>ha :P
05:17<andythenorth>I know why the pickle is there
05:17<andythenorth>I don’t know why ImagingCore needs to be pickled with my ship object
05:18<@Alberth>self.sprites = sprites
05:23<adf88>"they aren't called mods" - don't laugh, it's a real problem actually
05:23<adf88>my suggestion: "NewGRF" -> "NewGRF add-on"
05:25<andythenorth>ach, removing the ‘raise’ lets Jenkins build
05:26<andythenorth>but the pickle still fails
05:26<andythenorth>nothing changed there :P
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05:31<andythenorth>reading the pickle bugs in python 3.2 is a long way from drawing ships eh? o_O
05:33<SpComb>tsk, it's 2017 and still no new dbset releases!
05:33<V453000>xd
05:36<Eddi|zuHause>Lejving: you need to keep the rating above 50% so cargo does not disappear
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05:37<@Alberth>andythenorth: pickle is quite discouraged, json or yaml is much more encouraged
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: <insert joke about 16.16.16 joke here>
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05:43<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: that's still 4 months away ;)
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06:00<SpComb>openttd really needs some community-curated newgrf bundles
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: all that is needed for that is bananas to allow uploading/downloading newgrf presets
06:06<SpComb>like if I want to try FIRS 2, it seems like DBSet is out of the question
06:06<@Alberth>and a website so you can read about them
06:08<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: you could always customize the dbset firs/ecs extension grfs
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06:08<SpComb>not going down that rabbit hole
06:11<andythenorth>Alberth: pickle is used by multiprocessing :)
06:11<andythenorth>I’m only using at as a guard, to find out ahead of time if multiprocessing is going to barf
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06:36<SpComb>the 2cc 2.0-alpha1 default train list is way too long..
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>then don't try CETS with all options enabled :p
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06:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27726 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2017-01-08 12:45:08 +0100 )
06:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Improve error message when trying to build rail track over a depot. (adf88)
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07:26<Wolf01>Moin
07:32<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
07:33<@Alberth>o/
07:36<andythenorth>meanwhile http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/unsinkable-sam/push/LATEST/docs/html/ships.html
07:43<Wolf01>The 1870 large freighter is wip, I hope
07:43<Wolf01>Ok, they are all 1870
07:43<Wolf01>Nice small tanker
07:50<andythenorth>unfinished magic :)
07:50*andythenorth bbl
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07:51<frosch123>Wolf01: the headlines on the intro page even mention it: Intro dates 1870-1870
07:51<Wolf01>TL;DR :P
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07:58<SpComb>but myes, combining multiple NewGRFs, with multiple different variants of the same NewGRF released over more than 10 years, is hard
07:59<SpComb>in terms of compatibility/interactions between different NewGRFs... I guess that mostly affects non-standard industry sets
07:59<SpComb>I'm almost convinced that the right thing to do is just play with MB's GRFs and ignore everything else :P
08:01<SpComb>DBSetXL + Alpine + newstations + Raichase's dbset play guide = best gameplay ever
08:02<SpComb>http://users.qmsk.net/~terom/openttd/dbsetxlguide/ make that Uwe's guide
08:03<frosch123>i think you should play with "alpine" for once
08:03<frosch123>that should be punishment enough for you
08:04<SpComb>there was something flawed with alpine, I can't exactly remember what
08:04<frosch123>:)
08:04<SpComb>but it's a single, coherent gameplay, not exactly easy to achieve if you just start combining random NewGRFs
08:08<SpComb>there's just too many to choose from, and you don't know what fits together
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08:18<@Alberth>what more excuse do you need to play OpenTTD?
08:18<@Alberth>ie test!
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08:23<Eddi|zuHause>i think some buildings in alpine were buggy, the snowy version just sinks into the ground, and some pavements are missing
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08:29<@Alberth>Should there be anything that #define OPENTTD_MSU ?
08:29<@Alberth>files only have #ifndef OPENTTD_MSU
08:30<frosch123>huh?
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: sounds like something that would come from ./configure
08:32<frosch123>ah, check svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/masterserver_updater
08:32<frosch123>trunk/src/network/core is an external there
08:32<frosch123>"core" is shared between openttd and the master server stuff
08:34<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: yes, I thought so too, but a global recursive grep proved otherwise :)
08:34<@Alberth>frosch123: :o even more code :)
08:58<frosch123>your grep was not global enough :p
08:58<@Alberth>:D
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>checking that would have been my next suggestion
09:03<@Alberth>a scary lot of newgrf code seems to assume that filenames are unique
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09:16<frosch123>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzafzgnpd?/pzafzgnpd <- i am not sure whether that improves the comments
09:17<frosch123>there are currently 3 constants which kind of define the maximum number of newgrf
09:17<frosch123>this diff removes one, and turns another one into something else: one limit for real newgrf, one limit for all newgrf including static ones
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>does "static" include the baseset?
09:23<frosch123>in that context, yes
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09:24<Eddi|zuHause>and how much does this destroy patches that increase the grf limit (for single-player purposes)?
09:25<frosch123>they need to modify the @9277 hunk instead
09:25<frosch123>but yes, those 1-line patches need to be rewritten :)
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause>"cannot be used for any long-term usage." sounds odd
09:30<@Alberth>if (num_non_static == NETWORK_MAX_GRF_COUNT) { <-- make that >= ?
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09:33<@Alberth>also, src/newgrf.cpp now has 2 "is not loaded as the maximum number of GRFs has been reached" for different limits, bit of rewording would be nice
09:34<frosch123>yup, any good idea for a message? :)
09:34<@Alberth>max number of file slots would be one
09:35<@Alberth>perhaps not even mention "max number of GRFs" there
09:36<@Alberth>other one would be smthing like "max network packet size" ?
09:36<frosch123>well, i can change the DEBUG, not problem. it's a technical message
09:36<frosch123>i wonder more about
09:36<frosch123>STR_NEWGRF_ERROR_TOO_MANY_NEWGRFS_LOADED :Too many NewGRFs are loaded
09:36<@Alberth>although if the first one becomes slots, the second doesn't need to be changed
09:37<@Alberth>right, keep the network limit as "too many newgrfs" :)
09:37<frosch123>"too many newgrf" vs. "too many static newgrf"?
09:37<frosch123>"too many newgrf" vs. "too many open files"?
09:37<frosch123>though it's only about newgrf
09:40<@Alberth>yes, newgrf_gui mesg could also happen without static newgrf, by the looks of it
09:40<@Alberth>"too many open files" could also be a system message, better keep some opentdd-ish in there, imho
09:44<SpComb>UKRS2 running costs are high :(
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, some people make masochistic difficulty like that
09:47<@Alberth>oh, I found your 62 :)
09:47<frosch123>i removed it last night
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10:02<@Alberth>Oh, we also have GRFFile things
10:03<@Alberth>more unique filename assumptions :p
10:08<V453000>yo humenz
10:08<V453000>wat new
10:09<@Alberth>less magic "62" numbers in openttd source code
10:16<V453000>is 62 some special hentai secret?
10:18<ZirconiumX><V453000> is 62 some special hentai secret?
10:18<ZirconiumX>No context.
10:21<LordAro>i mean, the last context was about 48 hours ago, so..
10:22<NGC3982>Trains.
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10:32<V453000>gg
10:32<adf89>"The anser is 42" :D
10:32<adf89>answer
10:34<adf89>i just released new Polyline tool
10:34<adf89>check out if you like
10:35<adf89>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57080
10:35<frosch123>anything different? or just maintenance?
10:35<adf89>a ;ittle
10:35<adf89>litlle
10:35<adf89>damn
10:35<adf89>little
10:36<adf89>"After placing a rail track at tunnel/bridge/station entrance, snapping will be carried over, up to the other end."
10:36<adf89>"After build a rail station you can snap new rail track to it (CTRL-click the polyline button or press CTRL+A)."
10:36<LordAro>that thread's so old it has a post by me in it
10:37<Wolf01>Good news adf88+1
10:39<Wolf01>I would like to have it as default autorail behaviour, there is too much CTRL in this game
10:39<adf89>I still use original autorail a lot
10:40<adf89>I hae no idea how could the two tool be integrated into one
10:41<adf89>besies http://dilbert.com/strip/2016-06-12
10:42<Wolf01>What do you use autorail for?
10:42<adf89>placing tracks? :p
10:42<adf89>I use it
10:42<adf89>when there is a lot of micro-constructing in a single area
10:42<Wolf01>I mean, why is so different from laying a straight poliline?
10:43<Wolf01>*poly
10:43<adf89>e.g. when constructing station entrance etc.
10:43<adf89>snapping is not always desired
10:43<Wolf01>Them make polyline activate on drag > x
10:44<Wolf01>And a setting to invert snapping mode with ctrl
10:44<adf89>CTRL is for removing tracks
10:45<Wolf01>Don't you ctrl+click on the button? -> To open polyline tool click or CTRL-click on the new button
10:46<Wolf01>Normal click > snap, ctrl+click no-snap, setting to invert
10:47<adf89>it was like that before
10:48<adf89>but I decided that another button is usefull
10:48<Wolf01>Also I know there's ctrl to remove things while building, but is inconsistent, you don't ctrl+click to remove a station, or a signal, or a bridge
10:50<adf89>the two buttons (autorail and polyline) could be integrated into one, maybe, I must rethink on it...
10:50<frosch123>i really like the ctrl->remove thing :)
10:50<Wolf01>I use R
10:51<Wolf01>At least it works with signals and stations too
10:51<Wolf01>And with mices without buttons
10:52<Wolf01>Like my finger
10:54<adf89>ah, I remember why I added another button
10:54<adf89>it was for keyboardless playing
10:56<frosch123>another button is not the worst thing :)
10:56<frosch123>people can assign hotkeys as they like
10:56<SpComb>ah yes, play for a couple hours and then notice you're missing a ship set for FIRS, and you can't transport sand
10:56<Wolf01>6 buttons just to build the same thing...
10:56<frosch123>and after all we still have the single-direction tools
10:57<frosch123>Wolf01: better than the signal gui :)
10:57<Wolf01>I don't even use that, I just lay pbs everywhere
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10:59<adf89>block signals have a nice property which makes them better the PBSs in some cases
10:59<Wolf01>Straight rail
10:59<adf89>they turn red ONLY when there is atrain after them
11:00<adf89>red block signal = bigger penalty
11:00<adf89>green block signal = lighter penalty
11:00<Wolf01>I don't know what are penalties :P
11:00<V453000>gg
11:00<V453000>hello adf :)
11:00<adf89>hi
11:00<frosch123>doesn't reserver track also imply a penalty?
11:01<frosch123>though the amount of reserved track is different to the amount of red signals
11:01<adf89>reserver, yes
11:01<frosch123>don't copy my typos :p
11:01<adf89>but when a train passes over that PBS, it's no longer reserved
11:01<adf89>block signal is still red
11:02<frosch123>i thought regular track with reservation also has a penatly
11:02<frosch123>not just signals
11:02<V453000>when you have a bigger network, trains have a much easier time to choose their paths with block signals
11:02<V453000>because of the firstred penalty differences
11:02<V453000>idk how the non-firstred influences it but I guess it can't hurt
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11:05<frosch123>cat arrived
11:05<adf89>when path reserving, the most important is the (signal) tile where reservation ends
11:06<andythenorth>nmlc info: DCxx strings: 236/256
11:06<adf89>so called "firstred" mentioned by V453000
11:06<andythenorth>so what happens when FIRS runs out? :P
11:07<andythenorth>that’s 5 more cargos, and FIRS is ‘done’?
11:07<V453000>the difference is especially massive when you actually use pre-signals in splits, cause exit has firstred of like 40 000 by default
11:07<V453000>or something like that
11:08<frosch123>andythenorth: we encountered various string limits recently
11:08<frosch123>it's one of the next ones to tackle
11:08<frosch123>but i have not seen that code refactoring gui since
11:09<frosch123>*guy
11:09<andythenorth>kanban board guy?
11:09<andythenorth>or someone else?
11:09<frosch123>nah, not that one
11:10<frosch123>not the manager :)
11:10<V453000>._. 70k solar panels stopped being enough
11:10<LordAro>frosch123: string limits?
11:11<LordAro>V453000: get yo some nuclear ;)
11:11<V453000>I could, but don't want to use those yet
11:11<V453000>prototype changes stc
11:11<V453000>etc
11:12<frosch123>LordAro: 256 cargo strings per grf (andy's limit), 1024 other string per grf, 6100 string for all grfs total (user limit, reported by 2 different guys in last two months)
11:12<@Alberth>just nuke the entire planet, and you don't need any defense anymore :p
11:15<frosch123>andythenorth: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=1481932800#1481986065 <- that guy
11:15<frosch123>the "unit testing" guy, not the "management" guy
11:15<andythenorth>I missed that :)
11:17<LordAro>frosch123: i see
11:18<andythenorth>wow there’s lots :P
11:18<frosch123>what? people also talk when andy is not here?
11:19<andythenorth>well mostly the channel is me, sometimes someone else
11:19<andythenorth>talking to ourselves
11:19<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause even has stats to prove it
11:19<andythenorth>is increasing the string limit just work, or are we up against hard limits?
11:20*andythenorth reads the ‘development is stalled’ part
11:20<frosch123>the global limit should be pure work to increase to 32bit
11:21<frosch123>the cargo string part needs some more design since it involves newgrf specs
11:22<andythenorth>ho, these https://wiki.openttd.org/Objectives
11:22<andythenorth>I am now delaying buying a new computer, despite my battery is end-of-life in this one
11:22<frosch123>i guess there are cheap solutions to increase it to 2k or something, and more tricky solutions to increase it to 60k
11:22<andythenorth>because I won’t be able to compile ottd on a new mac
11:23<andythenorth>frosch123 go cheap? o_O
11:23<frosch123>cheap is no fun :)
11:23<andythenorth>‘no-one will ever need 60k strings’ …. < 5 years later, regret
11:24<andythenorth>do we have a docker build of ottd? :P
11:24*andythenorth doesn’t actually use docker, and is trolling
11:25<frosch123>i think tb had a perliminary docker compile farm
11:25<frosch123>rb may have had a prelininary osx compile farm
11:25<andythenorth>I might have to compile in a VM
11:26<frosch123>does sdl2 support osx?
11:26*andythenorth looks
11:26<frosch123>it says so, but ofc noone really knows :)
11:26<andythenorth>apparently https://wiki.libsdl.org/Installation#Mac_OS_X
11:26<frosch123>but sdl2 port is also over-due
11:26<andythenorth>https://wiki.libsdl.org/FAQMacOSX
11:27<frosch123>i think LordAro was working on it :)
11:28<andythenorth>one of the macports guys offered help making the current OS X port work
11:28*andythenorth is in catch 22: can’t test the build, don’t have a new OS X; can’t upgrade because ottd won’t work :P
11:28<frosch123>the limiting factor is the compile farm afaik
11:29<andythenorth>I believe current binaries work fine on [whatever version OS X now is]
11:29<LordAro>wuh
11:29<frosch123>we can likely make it compile on newer osx by dropping the compile farm and not offering any osx builds again :)
11:29<andythenorth>it’s compiling that doesn’t afaik
11:29<andythenorth>
11:29<frosch123>andythenorth: i think the binaries also do not really work
11:29<andythenorth>I should upgrade my wife’s mac and find out
11:30<andythenorth>but that would mean interrupting netflix
11:30<andythenorth>so eh
11:30<frosch123>80% of osx fs reports are about crashes in icu, which look like incompatible shared libs
11:30<andythenorth>do they give the OS X version?
11:30<frosch123>but i can't even check whether we link icu statically or not
11:31<frosch123>andythenorth: usually they do
11:31<andythenorth>I am on 10.10.5 / Yosemite, I think I’m two versions behind release
11:31<andythenorth>~everything works fine, except that palette animation has to be disabled
11:31<Rubidium>frosch123: we link it statically, but that's doubtful for "own" builds
11:31<frosch123>andythenorth: fs 6524 is 10.12.1
11:31*andythenorth looks
11:34<frosch123>hmm, i wonder where i got the icu idea from
11:34<frosch123>i thought crash.log contained some backtrace
11:35<+michi_cc>It does, unless the stack went away.
11:36<frosch123>yeah, but it is missing in both osx reports i just looked at :)
11:36<+michi_cc>Maybe both reports involve stack corruption :)
11:36<Rubidium>by the looks of it, it is an official build (rev.cpp was built at the right time)
11:38<frosch123>i wonder how long win10 will support .exe :)
11:39<andythenorth>hmm, ottd does build on OS X 10.9 and 10.10, I have used both
11:39<andythenorth>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6295
11:46<+michi_cc>I think that the compile farm uses --enable-universal (which TrueBrain might be able to comfirm), which means that FS#6295 should be safe to apply.
11:48<LordAro>michi_cc: http://farm.openttd.org/browse/OTTD-RLS-OSX-71/metadata :)
11:48<LordAro>(yes)
11:50<+michi_cc>So the FS path won't affect the compile farm. I might affect users self-compiling on 10.5 or something, but I'm note sure there are any left :)
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11:51<andythenorth>vanishingly low :P
11:51<andythenorth>if you’re on the apple train, you don’t get backwards compatibility past ~5 years
11:52<andythenorth>yeah I can boot the imac in my loft and run 10.2 perfectly fine, but...why?
11:55<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: when splitting openttd.grf into two files, one which is loaded always, and one specific to the original gfx baseset. how to name those two files?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>_basic and _extra?
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>or _base
11:56<frosch123>there are orig_dos.obg and orig_win.obg
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>_base and _orig?
11:57<frosch123>maybe openttd.grf is the "always" one, and the new one could be orig.grf or trge.grf
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11:58<Eddi|zuHause>openttd.grf and orig_extra.grf?
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>not fond of the trg* naming
11:58<frosch123>orig_extra sounds fine
11:58<frosch123>ok, next one: what grfid to use for openttd.grf
11:59<frosch123>orig_extra would keep the FF "OTT"
11:59<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action8#GRFID
11:59<frosch123>it does not exactly need the "OT" part
12:00<frosch123>i could just go for FF FF FF FE
12:00<+michi_cc>Eh, so what.
12:00<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r27727 trunk/config.lib (2017-01-08 18:00:18 +0100 )
12:00<@DorpsGek>-Fix(-or-not) [FS#6295]: [OSX] Out-of-the-box compilation on newer OSX versions (dunn).
12:00<+michi_cc>AFK for a few hours, so if it burns or hords of angry users descent on this channel, somebody hit revert :)
12:01<frosch123>be careful
12:01<frosch123>all the bot attacks have been on sundays
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27728 trunk/src/lang/latin.txt (2017-01-08 19:45:37 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>latin: 1 change by Supercheese
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17:22<Lejving>funded industries dies as well if not used right?
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18:59<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Mon Jan 09 00:00:53 2017