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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-01-26

---Logopened Thu Jan 26 00:00:17 2017
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05:17<Wolf01>o/
05:18<crem>\o
05:21<ZirconiumX>\o
05:23<V453000>u still not extinct?
05:23<V453000>fuken humenz
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06:21<Flygon>V453000: Hjuuumarn
06:21<Flygon>Gotta speak Ferengi mate
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07:22<Lejving>https://i.imgur.com/8MnPUxl.jpg
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>australia is a tiny bit weird...
07:26<Lejving>yeah it's upside down wtf
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07:28<__ln__>that photo must be photoshopped® because it looks like the sky is up and earth is down.
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10:52<supermop_>so now i have a head of state who declares torture - by that name - to be official government policy and desirable
10:54<@peter1138>it's ok, you voted for it
10:54<@peter1138>(collective you, obviously)
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11:09<V453000>savage
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11:44<supermop_>what the hell is MBs problem?
11:46<supermop_>i try not to personally insult trump supporters, but i still cant understand why various europeans want me to be quietly happy with trump
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11:46<supermop_>maybe Eddi|zuHause can help
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11:47<supermop_>i mean if they dont care, dont write in the thread, if they like watching americans struggle, express that (i can understand)
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11:48<supermop_>if they support trump for some reason, idk maybe explain why.
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11:55<Lejving>I don't support trump but I'm for sure he won rather than hillary
11:56<Lejving>I'm glad for sure*
12:00<supermop_>glad to hear you support torture
12:02<Lejving>nice conclusion
12:04<supermop_>yep
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12:04<Lejving>can you give me some sources that he supports torture
12:04<Lejving>?
12:05<Lejving>and I just told you I didn't support him, but I prefer him over hillary
12:05<supermop_>you didnt read the news on the latest executive orders i guess
12:06<Lejving>no I'm asking you for it
12:06<supermop_>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/26/donald-trump-torture-absolutely-works-says-us-president-in-first-television-interview
12:07<Lejving>disgusting
12:08<supermop_>secret prisions are back in style:
12:08<supermop_>prisons
12:08<supermop_>http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/01/donald_trump_s_executive_orders_on_immigration_are_a_bad_sign_for_muslims.html
12:09<supermop_>if you prefer from a 'conservative' news source instead:
12:09<supermop_>https://www.ft.com/content/ecf8e26c-e39a-11e6-9645-c9357a75844a
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12:09<Lejving>I told you I don't support him, I'm not even a conservative
12:10<supermop_>i'm trying to get out of you why you think this is better than a continuation of the previous status quo under Clinton
12:11<Lejving>the clintons are the biggest crooks who ever walked on this planet
12:11<supermop_>got a source for that?
12:12<Lejving>I know this
12:12<Lejving>you know this
12:12<Lejving>everybody knows this
12:12<Lejving>;)
12:12<supermop_>nope
12:12<Lejving>that's a trump quote
12:12<Lejving>clinton has routinely said things that she's disagreed on in the past but now agrees on
12:13<Lejving>during the elction
12:13<Lejving>at least trump is always an idiot
12:13<supermop_>obama campaigned in 2008 against gay marriage
12:13<Lejving>obama was terrible too so
12:14<supermop_>there is nothing wrong with politicians listening to their constituents
12:16<Lejving>what is a constitutents?
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12:18<supermop_>if i am elected to represent 100 people it is my job to reflect their desires. if 60 of the 100 say they are against A, it is my job to take that into consideration
12:19<supermop_>in two years if twenty of them have changed their minds, then it is my job to also take consideration of that
12:20<Lejving>well is the president obligated to listen to these?
12:21<supermop_>he should - he is an elected representative,
12:21<supermop_>everyone in the country is technically a constituent of his, and it his job to work in their collective interest
12:22<supermop_>not to be ideologically pure to some insane standard that exists in his own head
12:23<Lejving>should and obligated too is two different things
12:24<supermop_>of course there can be nuances of interpretation, but if the whole country shifts in its opinion, a responsible leader should consider it
12:24<Lejving>should
12:24<Lejving>is the keyword
12:25<supermop_>Lejving: i didn't say he is obligated to, i said a responsible leader should
12:25<Lejving>responsible
12:25<Lejving>is the keyword
12:25<supermop_>and i would not hold that against any leader who did
12:25<Lejving>I on the other hand admire him to hold true to what he thinks is true
12:25<Lejving>I'd try change his mind
12:25<supermop_>that is the thinking of a child
12:26<Lejving>no it is not
12:26<Lejving>I think it's the opposite
12:26<Lejving>a child doesn't have his own thaughts
12:26<Lejving>a grownup can listen to others and take his own decisions
12:27<Lejving>your job is to make him think different
12:27<supermop_>'hold true to what he thinks is true' means not swayed by any outside attempts to change his mind
12:27<supermop_>you are saying you would disrespect any leader who's mind was changed
12:27<Lejving>not at all
12:28<supermop_>well that is the exact case i used as an example
12:30<supermop_>not to mention at this point it would be better to have Nixon in office than Trump
12:31<Lejving>I disrepect any leader who changed his mind because the popular vote of his informers says something
12:31<Lejving>I respect any leader who changes his mind based on fact and science
12:31<Lejving>in this case it sounds like you're trying to make the point that he, obama, and any one else should change his mind just because his informators says something
12:32<@Alberth>trump just forbids science that draws the 'wrong' conclusions
12:32<Lejving>then I disrespect trump
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>Lejving: so the UK government is wrong to pursue brexit, just because 52% voted for it?
12:33<Lejving>no?
12:33<Milek7_>http://ncase.me./ballot/
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12:35<@Alberth>o/
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12:40<supermop_>Lejving: under that reasoning we should not have elected leaders at all
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>Milek7_: in "normal" countries, elections like this would have a runoff-election if none of the candidates got more than 50% of the votes, with only the 2 highest candidates participating
12:41<Lejving>I barely think we should have leaders, so
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>Milek7_: which of course has the disadvantage that people need to go vote a second time
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>usually 1 or 2 weeks later
12:42<@Alberth>I always wonder whether people change their mind during that time
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12:43<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: easy: 3 candidates: A with 40%, B with 30% and C with 20%, rest distributes among a dozen other candidates. A and B get to the runoff round
12:43<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: people who voted for C now vote for B, because they absolutely hate A, now it's A 40%, B 50% -> B wins
12:44<@Alberth>right, and "others" is so big that it makes a difference
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>or more like A 45% B 55%
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>in a first-past-the-post system, A would have won
12:45<@Alberth>minor issues is that you need more than 2 parties to start with :)
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12:46<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: in the american election there were at least 3 "viable" other candidates, each of which is frequently confronted with the question: "why do you want to steal votes from X candidate?"
12:46<Lejving>netocracy
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>a runoff-election would easily invalidate this question
12:46<Lejving>no wait
12:46<Lejving>what's it called when you have one for one and one against vote
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>no idea, never seen such a system
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12:49<@Alberth>"complicated", I think
12:49<Lejving>there's a word for it
12:49<Lejving>thought it was netocracy but it wasn't
12:49<@Alberth>or "useless with 2 parties"
12:50<Lejving>gary johnson don't count?
12:50<@Alberth>I don't even know who that is
12:51<Lejving>jill stein
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i think your reasoning is backwards. it's useless to have more than 2 parties without any of these mitigating measures
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12:52<Eddi|zuHause>but that's not even what i think is the worst part about the american presidential election system
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>the worst part is this "each state's electors vote as a block" thing
12:53<Lejving>garrymendering up the ass
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>if a state has 3 electors, and 60% vote for A, 40% vote for B, A gets all 3 electors
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>it would be way fairer if A got 2 and B got 1
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>the people that vote for B in that state just get ignored
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>this also diminishes the effect of "swing states"
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>because if a state is 10:8 or 8:10 doesn't matter that much
12:57<@Alberth>nicely designed to keep election results fully under control
13:01<@Alberth>and so you get a president that disrespects 50% of the population
13:01<@Alberth>such a great country
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>well currently more like 60%
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>of those that actually voted
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>which is also not a huge fraction
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>and a lower fraction than in most other democratic countries
13:06<@Alberth>lots of votes just get thrown away, so what would you expect
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>it would be a great success to get that figure down to 50%
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13:07<@Alberth>o/
13:24<Wolf01>Meh, I need MOAR lego
13:24<Wolf01>I've made about half of the diorama for march, I miss the cliff... not enough brown parts
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r27741 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt russian.txt) (2017-01-26 19:45:36 +0100 )
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from Eints:
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish: 26 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>russian: 1 change by Lone_Wolf
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13:54<@peter1138>waiting for my lego to arrive :S
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14:11<andythenorth>lo
14:12<@Alberth>o/
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14:26<Wolf01>andythenorth, seen last akiyuki GBC?
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14:26<andythenorth>nope :)
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14:28<Wolf01>Marble run with a high speed launcher
14:29<Wolf01>Oh, not akiyuki's only inspired on his one: https://www.flickr.com/photos/r53/32524877345/in/dateposted/
14:29<Wolf01>https://youtu.be/SF3bSeML4J8 <-
14:30*andythenorth looks
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14:37<andythenorth>launchers are tricky
14:37<andythenorth>are hard to get the right blend of friction + speed
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14:58<Wolf01>https://xkcd.com/1790/ exactly my mood about programming since new year
14:59<frosch123>hoi
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14:59<Wolf01>Quak
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15:01<supermop_>internet still not fixed
15:01<Wolf01>Nope, got disconnected today too
15:02<frosch123>supermop_: net neutrality was canceled. it now gives precedence to twitter
15:02<supermop_>fair enough
15:02<supermop_>noo my eclair is melting
15:02<supermop_>forgot i got eclair
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>does not sound healthy
15:03<supermop_>are eclairs ever?
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15:03<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what an eclair is
15:03<frosch123>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclair_%28Geb%C3%A4ck%29
15:04<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: unhealthy
15:04<frosch123>me neither, but there is a german wiki page about them
15:04<frosch123>haven't seem them anywhere though
15:04<Wolf01>I ate some of them in the past
15:04*andythenorth wonders if a custard slice crosses cultural borders
15:04<Wolf01>I prefer biscuits
15:05<supermop_>andythenorth: in oz, not here
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have seen these before
15:05<Wolf01>I think custard slice is everywhere
15:05<andythenorth>https://ui1.assets-asda.com/g/v5/533/079/27533079_280_IDShot_3.jpeg
15:06<andythenorth>it’s not millefuieleleele or anything
15:06<andythenorth>just custard and some very thin pastry to compress the custard
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no idea about custart, but we have https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierschecke
15:07<Wolf01>Oh, then maybe not, but I remember I've seen a bloat of custard wrapped in 2 thin layers
15:09<Wolf01>Mom makes a similar thing, a sort of magic cake which with the same cream ends up in 3 different layers
15:10<Wolf01>Yes... it's even called magic cake
15:10<supermop_>heh
15:10<Wolf01>http://i2.wp.com/tiphero.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Magic-Cake-Layers.jpg?resize=750%2C364
15:10<supermop_>nice
15:17<__ln__>https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/01/25/maybe-trump-isnt-lying/
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: can't read that page, pops up a full screen layer forcing me to enter my email adress
15:19<__ln__>:(
15:19<Wolf01>Disable jscript?
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15:20<__ln__>does this work better: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2017/01/25/maybe-trump-isnt-lying/?utm_term=.39c9f42eab3d
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: even if that works, a site like that should not get my traffic/attention at all
15:21<__ln__>interestingly there's no popup for me, even though i haven't disable anything
15:22<Wolf01>I browse the web without javascript, I enable it selectively on the sites I trust, no popups and annoying cookie law widgets
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15:25<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: never seen a pop up on WaPo before, maybe only in DE?
15:25<frosch123>hmm, "custard" is translated to "english creme"
15:25<supermop_>haha how fitting
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: whatever it is, it smells an awful lot like phishing
15:29<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: anyway, the gist of the page is that people are seriously speculating whether trump has a psychological condition that prevents him from distinguishing what is true and what is his imagination.
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: but is the world (or at least the US) better off with an ultra-right mike pence as president?
15:33<andythenorth>BBC News front page is such fun again
15:33<__ln__>perhaps not
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>is that different from any other news front page?
15:33<andythenorth>Trump, Pigoons (pig embryos with human genes), Doomsday clock moves
15:34<andythenorth>there’s no dopamine hit on a day when it’s just Brexit procedure all day long
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>well... spiegel.de is different: Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Schulz, Erdogan
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>... Refugees, illegal car racing, right-wing stuff
15:35<andythenorth>what we get to test, is does the US constitution actually limit the powers of a tyrant by design
15:35<andythenorth>it’s an interesting experiment
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>Schulz being the former president of european parliament, who is now running for chancellor against merkel
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>which was a surprise move announced yesterday, or so
15:38<supermop_>oooh illegal car racing
15:39<andythenorth>will Merkel be replaced? o_O
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: unlikely, but they still try
15:39<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: as much as i hate pence, we've had far right religious presidents before (Reagan) and they did cause damage
15:39<supermop_>but at this point maybe take the damage over all out calamity
15:41<andythenorth>supermop_: are you in the ‘it’s nuclear armageddon’ camp? Or are you thinking social calamity?
15:41<supermop_>andythenorth: more social
15:41<supermop_>although i think trump might be the first person who actually wants to use Nuclear weapon in several decades
15:42<andythenorth>according to anecdote, secret orders were passed to the US military to ignore nuclear strike orders from Nixon
15:43<andythenorth>he wanted to nuke N Korea iirc
15:43<supermop_>if we no longer have national parks and all news gets filtered between 'fake' news and official alternate facts
15:43<supermop_>that basically is it for US and maybe Anglo as a whole civil soceity
15:44<supermop_>we haven't climbed out of the social hole from reagan yet but its a hole that can be climbed
15:44<supermop_>if there is no longer any standard expectations of civil democratic society, that's it why bother anymore
15:45<supermop_>i heard a theory that that was a gambit by Nixon
15:45<supermop_>to bargain with USSR by appearing crazy and unpredictable
15:45<__ln__>does trump need someone else's approval besides his own to use nuclear weapons?
15:45<supermop_>i don't see any evidence trump is playing the same game
15:45<supermop_>__ln__:
15:45<supermop_>no
15:46<andythenorth>no
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: trump cannot actually "use" the nuclear weapons, he just can issue the order (and nobody else has the authority to stop him)
15:46<andythenorth>he has the football
15:46<supermop_>sole authorization for use of US nuclear weapons comes from the president's 'nuclear football'
15:46<andythenorth>with the launch codes
15:46<__ln__>how comforting
15:46<supermop_>who ever has that case + the card with his codes gets to launch
15:47<andythenorth>I find it hard to get scared about the nuclear scenario
15:47<andythenorth>if I’m wrong, I’m only wrong for 30 minutes
15:47<andythenorth>and there’s no upside to being right
15:47<Wolf01>Btw, maybe Trump is really right, he says what he wants to say (what he believes in, not what others put in his mouth), he doesn't trust the secret services, he wats to make USA great again with some things which may work, while other things are pure nonsense outside of his head
15:47<supermop_>andythenorth: it was assumed when i was a kid in that 80s that it was coming sooner or later
15:48<andythenorth>supermop_: same here
15:48<@Alberth>it's not too late :p
15:48<andythenorth>too many nights listening for 4 minute warning on radio
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>you grew up in a totally different world...
15:49<@Alberth>as you say, don't bother, you're dead anyway
15:49<supermop_>Wolf01: i've heard that it might be hard to impeach him for lying because he likely does not believe things he himself says to be false
15:49<andythenorth>“when you dead, you dead"
15:49<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: reagan wanted to keep us scared and spending money on our side of the wall
15:50<supermop_>during the cuban missle crisis, my dad made a few dollars betting his playmate each day that they would not be nuked that day
15:50<Wolf01>supermop_, that's what I thought, he doesn't lie, he's just strange inside
15:50<supermop_>his thinking being, i can't lose the bet, because if we do get bombed, i won;t have to pay up
15:51<andythenorth> the further normalisation of paramilitary force in the exercise of government power is more worrying than a nuclear armageddon
15:51<supermop_>so they kept going double or nothing all week
15:51<supermop_>andythenorth: yes
15:51<supermop_>there is a lot more than the nuclear codes that worries me
15:51<andythenorth>if it was actually funny, there would be funny irony
15:52<andythenorth>the paranoid right are so scared the government are coming for them
15:52<andythenorth>but the government they back might actually be coming for people
15:52<supermop_>yeah
15:52<andythenorth>Texas called out the state guard in response to Jade Helm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theories
15:52<supermop_>yep
15:52<andythenorth>because they thought Obama was moving to seize the states
15:53<andythenorth>whereas Trump, within 1 week, threatens to send miltary force against the states
15:53<supermop_>some of these black helicopters guys have been at it since the early 90s
15:53<andythenorth>Waco
15:53<supermop_>yeah
15:53<andythenorth>but it goes further back
15:54<andythenorth>Trump is what the constitution is supposed to protect the populace against
15:54<supermop_>there is a lot swirling around mormon offshoot extremists though
15:54<supermop_>the movement in Utah that rejects the Federal gov't's right to own land for parks etc
15:55<supermop_>is the force being the announce sell off of federal land
15:55<supermop_>sell to states
15:55<andythenorth>that’s a narrative with deep roots
15:55<supermop_>the western states with the most protected land, are the least desiring and able to manage it as state park land
15:55<andythenorth>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Significance_of_the_Frontier_in_American_History
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there's something very weird in right-wing thinking. they often demand a strong state (or things only a strong state could do), just _this_ state is terrible
15:56<andythenorth>the federal lands issue is a repeating cycle
15:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: and everyone wants the perfect father, but few get one eh?
15:56<supermop_>had a bizzare 4 hours once when cracked oil pan in middle of nowhere in Utah and waited hours for a tow
15:57<__ln__>does the constitution stop states from declaring independent?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>afaik yes
15:57<supermop_>then rode 4 hours in tow truck cab with a guy not quite an upstanding Mitt Romney type
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>which is the entire point about the american civil war
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>(the slavery thing was just on the side)
15:58<andythenorth>http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22994/22994-h/22994-h.htm
15:59<supermop_>listened to this guy for 4 hours talk about being a sovereign citizen, breaking onto federal lands to hunt and joy ride, how the feds have no right to own land in Utah etc
15:59<__ln__>https://theintercept.com/2017/01/23/lawmakers-in-eight-states-have-proposed-laws-criminalizing-peaceful-protest/
16:00<andythenorth>"No subject," said Henry Clay, "which has presented itself to the present, or perhaps any preceding, Congress, is of greater magnitude than that of the public lands."
16:00<supermop_>__ln__: in some states they have now made it legal to run over protestors with your car
16:01<ConductCat>:3
16:01<__ln__>cool. and barely at all sounds like a quote from borat.
16:01<supermop_>clearly that law is unconstitutional but it will take some people actually running over protesters for the courts to hear it
16:02<andythenorth>earlier today I wondered how far he can go if his appointments aren’t confirmed
16:03<andythenorth>for example, if enough of the GOP decide he’s loopy, or electorally damaging, they will withdraw some cooperations
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>the german constitution has an article about legalizing violent action when the constitution itself is being threatened, but nobody is quite sure when that actually applies and is the right time to invoke it
16:03<andythenorth>but it’s ok, he’s got it covered http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/38763689
16:03<andythenorth>he’ll do it all himself
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>like "at this point in hitler's rise to power it would have been legal to shoot him"
16:04<andythenorth>it’s similar to “you don’t know you need to stockpile guns until it’s too late”
16:05<andythenorth>which isn’t much of a useful truism, but eh
16:05<@Alberth>nn
16:05<andythenorth>bye Alberth
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16:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but before it is too late it's illegal to stockpile guns
16:06<andythenorth>isn’t it
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>like, in the german party that is the equivalent of the british UKIP, there's a guy who held a speech that could have been right out of Goebbels' mouth.
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>and their party leadership decided to not throw him out
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>and that party might get well over 10% in the next election
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>which is in september
16:11<__ln__>maybe the decades from 50s to early 00s were just an anomaly, and now every country wants to become a police state and increasingly want extreme right-wing leaders.
16:12<@Rubidium>well, we got a blonde wacko like that here... only problem is that he's the leadership of the party (which already has 10% and might become largest in March)
16:13<Wolf01>__ln__ they saw what right made, and 50 years is a generation (or 2) where memory starts to fade
16:13<+glx>[21:06:06] <andythenorth> it’s not millefuieleleele or anything <-- mille-feuille (yeah late reply)
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but you have like 10 parties already... :p
16:14<Wolf01>glx, "millefoglie" is easier :P
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: making becoming "largest" a way easier task
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: also, the guy here is already pretty high up in the leadership of the party, a direct confrontation with the current leader might become likely soon
16:20<andythenorth>I don’t know why it doesn’t worry me, much
16:21<andythenorth>there is some British insularity about it all that comes from not having been over-run by tyranny for several centuries
16:21<andythenorth>not all Brits feel that :P
16:23<@Rubidium>maybe the fact that there are a lot of Indians in the UK helps a bit against xenophobia
16:23<@Rubidium>(especially those with different believe systems)
16:25<@Rubidium>in general it's a minority that screws things up for the majority
16:26<__ln__>are you talking about minority of indians or minority of voters now
16:26<andythenorth>oh we have xenophobes plenty
16:27<andythenorth>but we are pretty unimpressed by demagogues and orators
16:27<@Rubidium>be it terrorists, dictators, the lack of power of the UN due to vetos, etc
16:27<andythenorth>even Churchill was only tolereated for WW2, then lost electorally
16:27<andythenorth>whereas France looks quite worrying from here
16:27<andythenorth>as does Holland, Austria, etc
16:29<@Rubidium>or even how frantic people are about plane crashes... cars are much more dangerous
16:30<__ln__>people act on emotions, and unfortunately politics also works based on emotions... decisions people base on things that they want to be true, but necessarily aren't true.
16:30<andythenorth>like town growth in openttd :P
16:31<andythenorth>which is not promoted by goods
16:31<andythenorth>that analogy probably fails :)
16:33<andythenorth>the internet provides vast social proof for common delusions
16:34<andythenorth>that was previously only available in small tight-knit communities :P
16:34<andythenorth>bloody internet
16:34<andythenorth>it should be closed up
16:34<andythenorth>at least the bad bits
16:38<@Rubidium>all in all I think we're going the way of Waterworld and Idiocracy
16:39<andythenorth>it’s possible :)
16:42<andythenorth>but I meet so few actual real idiots in actual real life
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16:51<FLHerne>Hm, I meet my uncle every couple of weeks
16:52<FLHerne>He's fed up of my being brainwashed by the BBC into believing that 'global warming' is anything except an excuse to destroy the remnants of British society
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16:53<andythenorth>well that’s ok
16:53<andythenorth>the BBC is a corporate capitalist plot, out to paint the left as unelectable
16:53<andythenorth>so he can rest easy
16:53<andythenorth>oh wait
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16:54<andythenorth>also bedtime :D
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i said a few days ago that trump kinda reminds me of the guy in waterworld that was played by dennis hopper, who ran the oil ship
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17:39<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: that guy seemed to be a more effective leader
17:39<supermop_>and at least he asked the oil hold guy how much they had left rather than deluding himself
17:40<supermop_>andy is gone, but a president can still be the executive without a cabinet
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: but they probably had an equally sophisticated opinion about the existence of global warming
17:41<supermop_>technically he would then have to personally run all of the depatments though
17:41<supermop_>but you can staff most of the lower levels of a department without any congressional confirmations
17:44<supermop_>also Eddi|zuHause i assume you meant AFD - i am saddened that these right wing populist parties are already gaining ground in UK, FR, NL, DE, and Trump seems so eager to encourage them
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17:45<supermop_>when i first went to live abroad in the 90s i felt in awe of how people could work together across the world in the post-cold war era. that dream has felt like its been dying to me for a few years now
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>supermop_: yes, but germany is quite a bit late to that development, actually... right-wing parties were already really strong in most other european countries
17:45<supermop_>and it does make me genuinely sad
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>especially eastern europe
17:46<supermop_>as a kid from a small midwestern town, going to live in Europe, going to school with kids from other countries, ethnicitis, religions,
17:47<supermop_>was so eye opening and amazing
17:47<supermop_>and now that is dead or dying
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>i think especially in eastern europe they're thriving off a general "the russians come back" fear
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>however, ironically, these right-wing movements get a lot of support from russia
17:48<supermop_>im surprised how quickly in a 2-week stance the GOP here went from paranoid phobia of russia to loving embrace
17:48<supermop_>once they decided to embrace trump
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17:49<supermop_>this is the party that called the USSR the Evil Empire...
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that was microsoft :p
17:50<supermop_>microsoft in the 80s was the young gun fighting big evil ibm
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>(i don't know if that's still the case, but google search at some point redirected "evil empire" to the microsoft website)
17:50<supermop_>you could say the same about google today
17:50<supermop_>or maybe facebook
17:51<supermop_>MZ is doing himself no favors suing native hawaiians for their land claims bordering his estate there
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>well, google clearly have an empire, i guess it's just a matter of time before it turns evil
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>however, i think in 10 years people will be like "remember facebook?"
17:52<supermop_>many americans still generally think of gates as square at best, evil at worst, after decades of him giving his money away to fight hiv and malaria
17:53<supermop_>whereas americans generally love CEOs who are outright assholes
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>that's why they elected one for president...
17:54<supermop_>it wouldn't be as bad if it was an asshole who was at least a competent CEO
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>a few years ago there was a study that people who were successful CEOs also had a lot of the same characteristics as psychopaths
17:56<supermop_>trump isnt even that - its a total break with reality
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>particularly, they lacked the ability to learn from failures
17:56<supermop_>another one of the theories ive heard in desperation to understand this madness is that he has his surrogates tell these blatant lies as a sort of purity test
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>as in, if you put your hand on a hot plate, you from now on associate hot plates with something dangerous
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>this feedback loop is diminished in psychopaths
17:58<supermop_>its a test for followers to choose loyalty of independent decision making, a test for the surrogates to show they will go to bat for him even at the expense of looking ridiculous
17:58<supermop_>and a test to filter out his critics so they can be dismissed
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, yes, but i don't think that's a thing particularly about trump, but a general society thing
17:59<supermop_>we are going to end up with 60 million fervent supporters and the other 240 million of us written off all together
18:00<supermop_>Eddi|zuHause: not his invention, but something bosses like him do in their hiring/ promotion decisions
18:01<supermop_>the other theory is to flood out so much scary or offensive news that the critics can never catch their breath to organize around one issue to fight against
18:02<supermop_>like in the campaign when he would start a stupid fued with a respected figure right around the time some bad news about him came out
18:03<supermop_>everyone was so angry and offended at him personally for the feud, they didn't spend much time talking about the news
18:06<__ln__>all the talk about trump here ends up in public logs, and if trump finds them one day, i guess he'll join the channel and tell us we are wrong.
18:08<supermop_>he'll just have me tortured
18:10<supermop_>i wonder if i will get waterboarding or 'a whole lot worse than waterboarding"?
18:11<supermop_>i hope they take me to a blacksite in a cool country
18:13<__ln__>for the greater good that would be acceptable
18:14<supermop_>tbh i'm not even sure the CIA feels like working with him on this though
18:14<supermop_>esp. if he keeps insulting them
18:15<supermop_>maybe they will take him to the black site
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18:30<__ln__>has russia ever wanted alaska back? and how interesting would it be if they decided to claim it now.
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>i think they have other problems
19:35<Wolf01>'night
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