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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-02-05

---Logopened Sun Feb 05 00:00:31 2017
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03:10<@Alberth>o/
03:17<andythenorth>moin Alberth
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05:52<andythenorth>V453000: yo
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07:05<@Alberth>o/
07:05<frosch123>moi
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08:09<V453000>yo
08:09<V453000>where be north
08:11<@Alberth>north is quick like the wind
08:12<@Alberth>fortunately that also means he'll return
08:12<V453000>I need to update pillow
08:12<V453000>and have no idea how
08:12<V453000>grabbed some .whl
08:12<V453000>but wtf with it :D
08:13<V453000>might need python 3.6.0 I guess
08:15<@Alberth>never heard of .whl files
08:15<V453000>http://www.lfd.uci.edu/~gohlke/pythonlibs/#pillow
08:15<V453000>yeah me neither
08:15<@Alberth>likely you need the python version that the pillow was build against
08:16<@Alberth>newest isn't terribly relevant, in most cases
08:16<V453000>I read something about using pip to get it
08:17<@Alberth>Pip entry lists the command to get pip, it seems
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08:21<V453000>I hate this shit
08:21<@Alberth>bbl
08:21<V453000>._.
08:21<V453000>cya later
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08:28<V453000>nice I got it to work :>
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09:18<andythenorth>V453000 o/
09:28<V453000>hi andythenorth
09:29<V453000>finally wrote my 32bpp->8bpp converter
09:29<andythenorth>awesomes
09:29*andythenorth haz questions
09:29<V453000>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pli93asmy
09:29<V453000>nice :D
09:29<V453000>wat questionz
09:29<V453000>... the script isn't final but it basically works
09:30<V453000>the problem now is that for example brix bridges have 53 megapixels
09:30<V453000>takes a while
09:30<andythenorth>can imagine
09:30<andythenorth>you can use multiprocessing pool if there are multiple images
09:30<V453000>:0
09:30<andythenorth>1 image per worker
09:31<V453000>well here the problem is 1 image XD
09:31<V453000>but yeah
09:31<andythenorth>more CPU
09:31<andythenorth>python won’t be fast for massive images
09:31<V453000>I plan a couple more features and flexibilities
09:31<V453000>right
09:31<andythenorth>dunno if ImageMagick is faster, but eh
09:31<V453000>is there a way to run python on gpu?
09:31<andythenorth>there’s some PyCUDA thing
09:31<andythenorth>https://developer.nvidia.com/how-to-cuda-python
09:32<V453000>https://developer.nvidia.com/how-to-cuda-python
09:32<V453000>eh
09:32<V453000>yes
09:32<V453000>got a titan x at work
09:32<V453000>fast as fuck
09:32<V453000>980Ti at home isn't bad either
09:32<andythenorth>probably only speeds up certain kind of python ops, is my guess
09:32<andythenorth>might work eh?
09:33<andythenorth>also
09:33<andythenorth>_if_ I made an OpenTTD fork, and used it to start deleting things
09:33<V453000>idk will try eventually
09:33<andythenorth>what would I delete?
09:33<V453000>cargodist
09:34<andythenorth>4x sprites?
09:34<andythenorth>32bpp?
09:34<andythenorth>timetables?
09:34<V453000>eh all of those 3 have some use
09:34<andythenorth>everything has some use :)
09:34<V453000>cargodist has none
09:44<V453000>hm half an hour and I have 20M pixels done
09:44<V453000>33 to go XD
09:44<V453000>90min for 1 picture
09:44<frosch123>andythenorth: remove cargodist, presignals, timetables, flat maps, town growth and ais. then check what is left for anyone to play with
09:44<V453000>alpha should be automatically skipped
09:44<V453000>frosch is forgetting PBS
09:44<andythenorth>frosch123: I can’t tell how serious you are :P
09:45<frosch123>V453000: no, i was trying to piss off all interest groups equally, so i had to remove presignals and keep pbs
09:45<andythenorth>someone gave me the idea recently that 4x zoom and 32bpp might have been a misstep :)
09:45<V453000>XD
09:45<andythenorth>fragmenting the add-ons == less community?
09:45<V453000>well it's shit but it doesn't mean it needs removing
09:45<andythenorth>dunno
09:46<V453000>well, forking openttd = less community? :P
09:46<frosch123>andythenorth: everyone is happy about 2x zoom, once 4k screens become the standard everyone will think the same about 4x
09:46<andythenorth>I never even tried simutrans because the paks are so confusing
09:46<V453000>implementing 32bpp incompatible with previous attempts = less community? :P
09:46<frosch123>4x is just a bit ahead of the time
09:46<V453000>yes
09:46<andythenorth>V453000: maybe that yes ^^
09:47<V453000>the screen resolutions are probably only going to increase
09:47<V453000>most ridiculous part is that smaller devices seem to have higher resolution
09:47<V453000>which is just wtf
09:47<V453000>4k laptop, suuure
09:47<andythenorth>I had some chat with pl*netmaker on forum pm
09:47<V453000>2K 13 inch tablet
09:47<andythenorth>I am curious why there are 5 of us left contributing
09:47<andythenorth>like, what keeps us motivated? o_O
09:47<frosch123>the first 4k devices i saw were 4" smartphones
09:47<V453000>you mean it should be less or more? :D
09:48<V453000>well yeah frosch123
09:48<V453000>wtf
09:48<V453000>I probably haven't seen a 4k phone yet but I don't follow phones much
09:49<V453000>andythenorth: idk, I always return to openttd stuff mainly because it taught me so much until now, that I always see more potential
09:49<V453000>and I haven't been mistaken so far
09:49<frosch123>andythenorth: imho the trick has always been to find intersections between your own interests and other's interests
09:50<V453000>apart from that, dreams need to be completed
09:50<andythenorth>I never get bored because I’m playing a metagame against myself
09:50<andythenorth>and I’m a massive narcissist
09:51<andythenorth>i.e. I always see what I got wrong, and have to beat my mistakes
09:52<V453000>"wrong" :)
09:53<andythenorth>V453000: you do same eh :P
09:53<V453000>kind of, yeah
09:53<V453000>struggling with finding time lately, but yeah
09:54<andythenorth>[life]
09:54<andythenorth>getting things wrong in DLC is fine
09:54<andythenorth>leave the old one on bananas, new grfid, move on
09:54<andythenorth>or change it, same grfid, piss some people off
09:54<andythenorth>but OpenTTD has no room for people to fail eh :P
09:54<andythenorth>and no way to reverse mistakes
09:54<V453000>good point actually
09:55<andythenorth>reading between the lines of what pm said, it’s quite overwhelming being a maintainer
09:55<andythenorth>and there’s no upside, no thanks, not much positive feedback
09:55<V453000>well yes
09:55<V453000>kind of to be expected tbh
09:55<andythenorth>unstable, immature software is much more fun to work on
09:55<V453000>it's tough and hard, but people don't have the direct contact with you
09:56<Lejving>that's what she said
09:56<V453000>for example when I make newgrfs, there is always someone at coop who will like it
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09:56<V453000>it's not like I am making the newgrfs for anybody else really :)
09:57<@Alberth>o/
09:57<andythenorth>I am mostly making for myself
09:57<andythenorth>but can’t ignore the upside of nice feedback e
09:57<andythenorth>eh
09:57<@Alberth>I think most authors do that :)
09:58<V453000>well sure
09:58<V453000>for me it's that coop basically follows my ideas so it's for me=coop
09:58<frosch123>V found someone to do his hobby for him, without pay
09:59<@Alberth>first peak preview at all the marvellous V graphics :)
10:00<@Alberth>*peek
10:00<frosch123>Alberth: 5 years ago i only knew V for drinking beer, then somehow he started making grfs, and now he works as an artist
10:01<frosch123>so weird :p
10:01<V453000>:D
10:01<V453000>nice progression
10:01<V453000>also you just made me realize it's been 6-7 years since I started working on nuts
10:01<V453000>O_O
10:02<V453000>anyway back later
10:02<V453000>hopefully pc won't catch on fire XD 30Mpix done
10:02<V453000>cya later
10:03<frosch123>oh, i think it's 10 years since i started reading into nfo spec, and writing forum pms to dalestan; who then (correctly) flamed me for not asking support questions on public
10:03<andythenorth>oh he did that to you too :)
10:03<andythenorth>we should compare the flame
10:03<andythenorth>it was a fairly unique style
10:03<frosch123>i don't flame people when they send support questions via pm or email, i just ignore them
10:04<andythenorth>I found being flamed quite encouraging
10:04<frosch123>why do i have 4 pages of pms on forums? i do not remember writing them
10:05<andythenorth>I have ridiculous number :P
10:05<andythenorth>I sent 65 pages of pms :o
10:05<andythenorth>that is more wtf than I expected
10:06<@Alberth>there is this "delete" feature :p
10:07<frosch123>Alberth: that's lying
10:07<@Alberth>:O
10:08<frosch123>like when people argued on the forums: when there are no active ttdp devs, we should reset the bug tracker, so people can start fresh
10:09<@Alberth>rediscover all the open bugs :p
10:10<@Alberth>do like Fedora, close all bugs of a release after its EOL (2 years)
10:14-!-chomwitt [~chomwitt@athedsl-254917.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:15<frosch123>andythenorth: so you are close to the limit of 2000 pms?
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10:17<andythenorth>frosch123: yes I had to delete some recently
10:18<andythenorth>maybe that’s where the Dalestan flame went :)
10:18<andythenorth>some of the flyspray bugs are just noise now
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10:18<andythenorth>I started reading them and commenting on ones I thought were closable
10:18<supermop_home>good morning
10:18<andythenorth>…then I got bored :P
10:19<@Alberth>moin home supermop
10:19*andythenorth bbl
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10:20<@Alberth>wb :)
10:20<supermop_home>ha
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10:21<andythenorth>oops
10:21<andythenorth>dropped my laptop
10:21<andythenorth>just checking it works :P
10:21<andythenorth>seems to
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12:22<FruitSalad>Jinassi?
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12:35<@Alberth>V453000: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1l57xrf7 fazzter pixzelz
12:37<V453000>can you send me a non-diff thing pls? :)
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12:40<@Alberth>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psgnsq161 V453000
12:40<@Alberth>don't paste it over your old version
12:40<V453000>tyvm
12:40<@Alberth>I hacked some stuff to get it running
12:40<V453000>just need to see, a factorio human is also helping me optimize :D
12:41<@Alberth>bit of C code would do wonders :p
12:41<V453000>thanks :) let's see how far can I push it
12:41<V453000>very interested to see how much difference will also the PyCUDA do
12:42<@Alberth>if it works, it should be day vs night :)
12:42<@Alberth>never programmed a GPU for doing calculations
12:42<@Alberth>not sure how that would work
12:42<V453000>is pretty much what I'm thinking
12:43<@Alberth>I guess you could run the minimization algorithm for each palette value in parallel, pretty much instantly getting the winner
12:44<@Alberth>but is higher OpenGL wizardry than my capabilities :)
12:47<V453000>I have 2 rooms of programmers next to me every day
12:47<V453000>will figure shit out
12:47<V453000>but thank you so much, I'll try to read it and attempt understanding
12:49<@Alberth>ok, otherwise, just ask
12:54<@Alberth>why don't you make a palette image immediately btw?
12:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r27743 trunk/src/viewport_gui.cpp (2017-02-05 18:54:46 +0100 )
12:54<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6537]: Extra viewports did not center on the selected tile. (hackalittlebit)
12:55<@Alberth>"out image" is still a RGBA image
12:55<V453000>Alberth: just didn't do it yet
12:55<@Alberth>oh, fair enough :)
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12:55<V453000>considering it easier, just a matter of if the 8bpp module works
12:55<V453000>worst case scenario I can re-save it in photoshop
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13:24<andythenorth>my screen no longer quite lines up with the base of my laptop :D
13:24<andythenorth>it’s out by about 1mm
13:28<V453000>Alberth: fuken programming :D. Cube says that the main optimization will be using a different function to load the image pixels
13:28<V453000>http://effbot.org/zone/pil-pixel-access.htm
13:29<andythenorth>PIL is particularly…special
13:29<V453000>this pillow
13:30<V453000>I heard many times from our programmers that PIL was old trash and pillow better
13:30<andythenorth>there’s not a vast difference
13:30<andythenorth>pillow is just better packaged, and builds reliably
13:30<andythenorth>so installations don’t fail
13:30<andythenorth>afaik
13:30<andythenorth>PIL was almost guaranteed to make a build fail :P
13:31<V453000>well that alone sounds like a good improvement :D
13:31<andythenorth>it was ;)
13:31<andythenorth>hmm, seems I use point() already :(
13:31<andythenorth>can’t go any faster
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13:32<andythenorth>graphics processing is about 11s for Sam :(
13:32<andythenorth>super annoyingly slow
13:32<V453000>..
13:35<andythenorth>I should find out what’s slow eh
13:35<andythenorth>it’s only 2MB of images
13:36<andythenorth>woah, Sam grf is 3MB :O
13:37<andythenorth>and it contains only a fraction of the sprites :o
13:37*andythenorth is clearly on a path to V453000 grf sizes
13:38<V453000>XD
13:38<andythenorth>all of Squid is 1.2MB
13:38<andythenorth>cargo sprites eh :P
13:39<@Alberth>hope that pixels access works out
13:40<@Alberth>but a dedicated C program to convert 32bpp to a palette helps better, I think :p
13:40<V453000>mhf :D
13:40<V453000>he also says this is written in C http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3114925/pil-convert-rgb-image-to-a-specific-8-bit-palette/3115245#3115245
13:40<@Alberth>it's probably not even much different from your code
13:40<V453000>but I don't understand how does that work for shit
13:40<V453000>yet
13:45<@Alberth>http://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/latest/reference/Image.html#PIL.Image.Image.convert not the least square, it seems
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13:50<@Alberth>if you can do it in one or two pillow calls, you're basically having a C implementation
13:50<@Alberth>all those routines are written in C, afaik
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14:57<Wolf01>Moin
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15:22<Wolf01>https://twitter.com/tanufuku/status/828166969060782082/video/1 omg...
15:22<Wolf01>Imagine it with ottd windows
15:22<Wolf01>10 viewports, 5 toolbars
15:24<__ln__>ottd doesn't even really support dualscreen yet
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15:53<Eddi|zuHause>the main problem with hololens is that you need to move your head and can't just move your eyes
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16:01<Wolf01>Same with TrackIR, but people use it
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16:03<markasoftware>trackir you barely have to move your head though
16:03<markasoftware>with hololons you have to move it 360 degrees
16:03<markasoftware>trackir moves the view on screen more than your head turns
16:03<Wolf01>I think TrackIR is customizable
16:04<Wolf01>BTW, is this hate?
16:04<__ln__>only danish people can turn their head 360 degrees
16:09<Snail>argh… I really wish my point had been taken more seriously
16:09<Snail>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=75406
16:09<Snail>this thing has incredibly complicated my code
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17:18<V453000>Alberth" did you try to run the thing?
17:18<V453000>the for z, (cr, cg, cb) in enumerate(p): seems to give me an error "ValueError: too many values to unpack (expected 3)
17:18<V453000>oh
17:18<V453000>he not here
17:18<V453000>laters :D
17:25<V453000>gonna try the pixel access objects tomorrow
17:25<V453000>:>
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17:56<abculatter_2>Hey, I'm having a problem with ECS not having all cargos and industries when installed?
17:56<abculatter_2>Also, the latest linux Debian seems to point to version 1.5.3, not 1.6
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18:04<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: check what "p" looks like...
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19:43<Wolf01>'night
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