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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-02-07

---Logopened Tue Feb 07 00:00:34 2017
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07:03<andythenorth>supermop_: did you play any FIRS Steeltown? o_O
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07:34<Wolf01>o/
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09:30<supermop_>yo
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10:20<andythenorth>o/
10:22<supermop_>YO
10:22<supermop_>i have played steeltown
10:23<supermop_>not recently though and can't recall any quirks off the top of my head
10:28<andythenorth>I think it’s too faceted and complex
10:28<andythenorth>it’s not bad, but it needs tweaks
10:29<supermop_>extreme is also complex and some people like it
10:29<V453000>my ass is faceted and complex
10:29<supermop_>i like the thematic coherence
10:30<supermop_>i have to say, extreme blk terminals are really boring
10:30<andythenorth>V453000: pictures or it didn’t happen
10:31<V453000>nsfw https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8346/my-ass.png
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10:32<V453000>nice supermop even joining twice to see it
10:32<supermop_>gotta see it twice
10:32<V453000>i get it
10:32<supermop_>v complex & facets
10:33<V453000>are facets the opposite of assets?
10:33<V453000>is cat?
10:33*andythenorth is not clicking that link
10:34<V453000>it's not that dangerous andy
10:34<V453000>what can possibly go wrong
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10:35<andythenorth>I have seen goatse before
10:35<andythenorth>there is no need to repeat
10:36<V453000>do you really think I would post a picture of self?
10:36<V453000>just shittin pixels
10:36<andythenorth>such pixels
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10:38<andythenorth>supermop_: too many port industries
10:38<andythenorth>too weird
10:38<andythenorth>also aluminium is pointless
10:38<supermop_>i guess its easy for bootstrapping
10:38<V453000>omg he's reworking firs again
10:38<andythenorth>such economies
10:39<supermop_>buy one 6 tile, chinook hauled rake at game start and send to an alu plant about 100 tiles away and you are already all set
10:40<andythenorth>hmm
10:40<andythenorth>but the aluminium cargo is daft no?
10:40<andythenorth>it doesn’t produce anything useful further up the chain
10:40<supermop_>i mean in regular firs, where its just metal
10:40<andythenorth>oh yeah that’s fine
10:41<supermop_>it kind of cuts out steel mill
10:41<andythenorth>firs is firs is firs
10:41*andythenorth been playtesting Steeltown
10:42<supermop_>because the alu plant will go 8/8 from the firs delivery, never need scrap, never need to balance deliveries of input cargos
10:42<supermop_>* first delivery
10:43<supermop_>the bulk terminal might as well be the aluminum import terminal
10:45<supermop_>i dont recall how steeltown alu works
10:45<supermop_>brb
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11:03-!-Alberth is "purple" on @#openttd
11:03<@Alberth>o/
11:05<V453000>yo Alberth
11:05<V453000>the thing you sent makes no sense to me but I will try to understand it later :D
11:05<V453000>for speed I'll probably rewrite the whole thing to a different system
11:05<V453000>for better colour distance calc I have multiple plans, let's see
11:06<V453000>but what was the point of your red grouping thing?
11:10<@Alberth>basically, what I try to do is to try 'nearby' colours first, before trying 'further away' colours
11:11<@Alberth>the nearby colours give a good 'best_distance', so you can discard most colours, just based on the squared red distance
11:11<V453000>but it goes through all colours anyway?
11:12<@Alberth>not likely, but it was too complicated to chop off the palette colours that are never feasible
11:12<V453000>right
11:12<@Alberth>but you do get the same results as you get now
11:13<@Alberth>I start with colours that have mostly the same red component
11:13<V453000>well it's interesting but I will probably continue using what I have now and try to rewrite it into the numpy thing I have no idea about so far
11:13<@Alberth>further down the list, the red component distance grows
11:14<@Alberth>if it is bigger than the best_distance that you have, you can stop
11:14<@Alberth>which probably saves you 3/4 or so of the computation
11:14<V453000>I see
11:14<@Alberth>depending on the distribution of the palette colours
11:15<V453000>the idea is certainly interesting, I'll see if I can re-use it later on
11:15<V453000>yes
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11:40<@peter1138>fml, £770 for an upgrade to i7 :(
12:31<supermop_>ok
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13:10<supermop_>so my first action upon getting spotify finally is to listen to a bunch of late 70s funk i never got around to listening to before
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13:32<@Alberth>hi hi
13:57<andythenorth>lo Alberth
14:06<Wolf01>o/
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14:25<andythenorth>such newgrfs
14:26<V453000>64bpp?
14:26<V453000>is enuf?
14:26<andythenorth>moar
14:27<V453000>thought so
14:27<andythenorth>my game is full of ridiculous broken
14:27<andythenorth>broken industries, broken ships, broken trains
14:27<andythenorth>broken RVs
14:27<V453000>XD
14:27<andythenorth>is price of making own grfs :)
14:30<V453000>is.
14:32<andythenorth>I think I add new broken faster than I fix it
14:32<andythenorth>situation getting out of hand :)
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14:51*andythenorth won SV
14:51<andythenorth>only silve
14:51<andythenorth>silver *
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15:04<@Alberth>it's called SilVer :)
15:05<@Alberth>gold is just a red herring :p
15:08<andythenorth>:P
15:09<andythenorth>Red Herring is a good GS name
15:09<andythenorth>not sure what it does
15:16<andythenorth>so major contributors in medium past….mostly students? o_O
15:17<frosch123>in particular graduating students
15:17<frosch123>for some reason you have time while writing your thesis
15:18*andythenorth wonders post-2008, students have no time any more
15:19<andythenorth>dunno, don’t know many students
15:19<andythenorth>are they all working jobs as well as studying?
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15:19<frosch123>why "post 2008"?
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15:20<andythenorth>global financial crisis
15:20<andythenorth>might be irrelevant
15:20<andythenorth>just an idea :)
15:20<frosch123>i don't think there is any international thing which would affects students
15:20<@Alberth>V453000: it's indeed faster, from 78 to 19 seconds here
15:20<@Alberth>3/4 wasn't that far off :p
15:20<frosch123>i think students are rather affected by how the courses are organised
15:21<frosch123>which changed around 2008 in germany funnily :p
15:21<andythenorth>I see :)
15:21<frosch123>so i wondered about your 2008 :p
15:23<andythenorth>:)
15:23*andythenorth wonders if OpenTTD is a good way to learn software engineering
15:23<@Alberth>if you want to learn code refactoring, yes
15:24<@Alberth>if you want to learn writing clean code from scratch, a lot less
15:24<andythenorth>which is more like ‘real’ software engineering? o_O
15:25<@Alberth>I'd say code refactoring
15:25<andythenorth>+1
15:25<@Alberth>but I am not so sure you can learn that if you can't write clean software from scratch, as that's the simpler case
15:27<frosch123>not necessarily
15:27<frosch123>a big existing code base allows you to focus on specific items
15:27<frosch123>if you start from scratch you have to deal with all interfaces
15:27<@Alberth>good point
15:28<@Alberth>you can just use all the stuff that already exists and works
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15:38<V453000>Alberth: that's a lot :D
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15:41<@Alberth>hmm, result is not identical, it has a few 'srcatches' for some reason
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15:42<@Alberth>would need a bit closer checking
15:43<@Alberth>oh, the input image has it too, must have picked a different logo image
15:43<@Alberth>seems fine thus :)
15:44<V453000>X
15:44<V453000>D
15:44<V453000>alright
15:44<V453000>sounds great
15:45<@Alberth>but you first have to decide on your definition of "closest" , I think
15:46<@Alberth>which is simpler with a more naive algorithm
15:46<V453000>yarr
15:47<@Alberth>for extra wtf, apply the same trick for green now :p
15:47<@Alberth>not sure if it helps, depends a bit on how many palette colours with the same red distance you have
15:48<V453000>colleague gave me https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pp7zlu0cp today
15:48<V453000>basically fucking the values up to match what eye does
15:48<V453000>but I'll likely still try the CIEDE2000
15:48<V453000>just to see
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15:49<@Alberth>I wondered about that idea too, seems worthwhile to try to weigh red changes heavier than eg blue
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15:50<@Alberth>makes a colour comparison heavier, so less comparisons has bigger impact even :)
15:53<V453000>haha
15:53<@Alberth>factor 3/4 sort of stays the same
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15:54<@Alberth>green looks like the biggest impact, so that should be what you sort on
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16:02<@Alberth>it should be possible to establish an upper bound on the error of eg green, given a (small-ish) set of palette colours
16:05<@Alberth>then you can compute when you reach infeasible palette colours
16:05<@Alberth>only saves memory though, it won't reduce computations
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19:21<Wolf01>'night
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21:23<supermop>never any other north americans anymore
21:25<markasoftware>im a north american
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21:29<Eddi|zuHause>there were never many north americans here
21:30<Eddi|zuHause>the majority of people around here always were german, dutch and british (about equal each), with the rest spreading over other european countries. rest of the world was always a bit low
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21:56<Flygon>I'm Oceanian :V
21:56<supermop>odd because almost all of my friends also played tto in the 90s
21:56<Flygon>Funny thing is
21:57<Flygon>I only found out about OTTD because of a friend of mine around 5-6 years back
21:57<Flygon>Otherwise, I'd never even touched Transport Tycoon
22:06<supermop>I wish the default stations had people waiting?
22:20<Eddi|zuHause>in general, the default <whatever> never get <whatever>
22:20<supermop>indeed
22:21<Eddi|zuHause>that's the entire point about newgrfs
22:21<supermop>but a very simple passenger station set with just a couple stations based on the defaults could be nice
22:22<Eddi|zuHause>make one?
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>main problem why nobody did a station set in the past few years is that nml doesn't yet support stations
22:23<supermop>yeah
22:23<supermop>and the nfo is a bit of a pain for me, i never really understood it
22:23<Eddi|zuHause>so you have to use nfo, or some niche helper scripts that only the creator of those scripts ever used
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>(talking about m4nfo)
22:25<supermop>figured as such
22:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure it works fine, but it's probably a little difficult to get into
22:26<Eddi|zuHause>without a community to back you up
22:33<supermop>maybe I just need some more hobbies any not let my self get as tired of the default stations
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---Logclosed Wed Feb 08 00:00:36 2017