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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-02-16

---Logopened Thu Feb 16 00:00:47 2017
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03:27<andythenorth>o/
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04:08<crem>\o
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04:21<andythenorth>ach, beaten by Silicon Valley
04:21<andythenorth>[again]
04:21<andythenorth>:P
04:43<V453000>:D
04:43<V453000>problems
04:46<andythenorth>spend too much time making nice looking stations
04:46<andythenorth>not enough time WINNING!
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05:43<Wolf01>Moin
05:46<andythenorth>lo Wolf01
05:46<Wolf01>o/
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08:00<andythenorth>hmm
08:08<andythenorth>what is the point of Manufacturing Supplies in FIRS?
08:09<andythenorth>also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2MybxgTLMM
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09:25<supermop>andythenorth: the point is i need to make mnsp for sv goal
09:26<andythenorth>in nearly all cases, it’s just ‘packaging'
09:26<andythenorth>and could be dropped as a cargo tbh
09:26<supermop>boxes are something
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09:32<andythenorth>if I delete it, I’ll end up putting it back :P
09:36<supermop>haha
09:36<supermop>i think i wrote all my nml andythenorth
09:36<supermop>haven't tried compiling yet
09:37<supermop>also need a generic trolleybus to test trolleybi
09:38<crem>trolleybae
09:38<crem>trolleybora
09:38<andythenorth>take one from RH
09:38<andythenorth>fake
09:44<andythenorth>hmm
09:44<andythenorth>why do I mostly draw industries along SW-NE axis? o_O
09:44<andythenorth>bit weird
09:45<supermop>to frustrate me when im trying to build industries in tight spots
09:46<supermop>double deck trolley bus seems a tight fit
09:47<supermop>and dont send a picture of one in HK or something
09:48<supermop>maybe ill add a bumpercar
09:51<supermop>where do i find 'python33.dll'?
09:54<supermop>the nrtnml came with a file called python3.dll
09:54<supermop>can i just make 11 copies of that
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10:35<supermop>oops
10:36<crem>oops is a wrong word
10:44<V453000>FUCK
10:44<supermop>named string wrong
10:45<V453000>is exactly what I'm sayin
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10:47<supermop>STR_NAME_FUCK
10:48<andythenorth>lo Alberth
10:48<@Alberth>lo andy, super mop
10:48<Wolf01>o/
10:48<supermop>ok lets try this again
10:49<andythenorth>eh http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#metal_workshop
10:49<andythenorth>‘Metal Workshop’ or ‘Stamping Works’ or something?
10:49<andythenorth>I’m splitting the Foundry off, as it has zero overlapping cargos :P
10:50<supermop>wait now i need a gfx and a src file?
10:50<supermop>folder i mean
10:51<supermop>ok i wrote that in my png path
10:51<@Alberth>"stamping works" looks like either something with postage stamping, or a yeti term :)
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10:52<@Alberth>"factory goes BENG"
10:53<@Alberth>you could make a slang language :p
10:53<@Alberth>no newgrf language code for it, though :(
10:57<supermop>oops forgot pallet
10:57<@Alberth>required for stacking all the images!
10:59<andythenorth>BORKBORK.grf
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11:01<@Alberth>multi-level roads, eh?
11:02<supermop>damnit how did it read beyond the bounds of just one of the pngs
11:02<@Alberth>specifying an offset larger than the image?
11:02<@Alberth>or offset+size
11:04<andythenorth>or png is wrong size
11:04<@Alberth>doesn't it say what pixel doesn't exist?
11:04<andythenorth>or you fat-fingered a digit
11:06<V453000>png can't be wrong size
11:06<V453000>png is always exactly right
11:06<V453000>bow to the png
11:06<supermop>"line 324: read beyond bounds of image file 'gfx/chips_asphalt_tram.png'
11:07<@Alberth>not too much information at least :p
11:07<supermop>"included from "docklands.nml", line 336
11:07<supermop>and so on for line 364, 397,396
11:07<supermop>why 397 is before 396 idk
11:08<andythenorth>what’s on l324?
11:08<andythenorth>or just paste all of it https://paste.openttdcoop.org/
11:08<supermop>wordpad doesn't have an easy way count lines so i am counting manually
11:09<andythenorth>paste it
11:09<supermop>ooh thats helpful
11:09<andythenorth>why did I add this industry ever? :P
11:09<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#metal_fabrication_plant
11:09<supermop>now i have numbers
11:09<supermop>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmvt6gyqg
11:09<andythenorth>ok so something’s calling that template with an outsized value
11:10<andythenorth>is my guess
11:10<andythenorth>how big are your pngs? (x, y)
11:10<supermop>hmm i kinda didn't even notice that template
11:10<supermop>440x330
11:12<@Alberth>open NML file, look for the gfx name
11:12<supermop>the error seems to be where underlay templates are mentioned
11:13<@Alberth>andy: perhaps you intended to fabricate metal? input seems a bit wrong in that case :)
11:14<andythenorth>I think it’s likely tmpl_underlay_roadtypes() too
11:14<supermop>oh i typed 390 instead of 290
11:14<supermop>390 +64 is outside of the png
11:14<andythenorth>Alberth: I actually intended to do exactly what I’ve done: an industry for making big metal parts, chemically treated :P
11:14<supermop>the sprite i want there is at 290
11:14<andythenorth>but whereas the the industry is essential in Steeltown, it seems pointless in Extreme
11:14<@Alberth>the name is just a bit wrong perhaps :)
11:15<andythenorth>I think ~7 years ago I was planning for today, a bit prematurely
11:15<@Alberth>nah, extreme is pointless by definition :p
11:15<andythenorth>oh yes
11:15<andythenorth>it’s just weird to have two industries, both processing metal and chemicals
11:15<andythenorth>and one produces building materials, which are widely available
11:15<andythenorth>maybe I shouldn’t think too much about it :P
11:16<@Alberth>maybe not 7 years ago :)
11:16<supermop>extreme really needs a GS that needs bdmt
11:16<supermop>otherwise no point
11:17<andythenorth>o/t: Extreme has room for one more cargo
11:17<andythenorth>I’m thinking salt
11:17<supermop>important in pre-industrial era
11:17<andythenorth>major chemical feedstock also
11:17*andythenorth has been…reading :P
11:17<andythenorth>send it here http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#chemical_plant
11:18<andythenorth>chemicals are very demanded in Extreme http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/cargos.html#chemicals
11:18<andythenorth>too much of extreme was ‘planning for reuse in another economy’ :)
11:18<supermop>OK guess who just encoded their first grf in 6.5 years?
11:19<@Alberth>\o/
11:19<andythenorth>ha
11:19<andythenorth>well done
11:20<andythenorth>Extreme reminds me of this :P https://sh-s7-live-s.legocdn.com/is/image/LEGO/10555?id=YMSPT2&fmt=jpg&fit=constrain,1&wid=495&hei=371&qlt=80,1&op_sharpen=0&resMode=sharp2&op_usm=1,1,6,0&iccEmbed=0&printRes=72
11:20<@Alberth>rename Extreme to ChemCity
11:21<@Alberth>nice bright colours :p
11:21<andythenorth>this cheese mining is nice http://thebrickbucket.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/moon-cheese-miners.html
11:21<andythenorth>Wolf01: ^ :P
11:22<@Alberth>ha, great!
11:22<@Alberth>especially the green storage thing :)
11:23<Wolf01>:)
11:23<supermop>hmm nothing shows up in game
11:24<supermop>like i still only have ROAD, HAUL, RAIL and ELRL
11:24<andythenorth>definitely got the NRT build? (it will fail to load the grf if you don’t :) )
11:24<andythenorth>ok you have NRT
11:24<supermop>nrt fork and nrt hog
11:24<supermop>no error msgs
11:25<supermop>but no fancy pavements
11:25<supermop>man this is kind of a nice little map too
11:25<supermop>dont want to abandon
11:26<andythenorth>definitely got the grf in the list? o_O
11:26<andythenorth>got vehicles that use the labels? o_O
11:26<supermop>its the last item
11:27<supermop>hog is only veh grf i got
11:27<supermop>but if i have cobble tram set to be powered on elrl wont regular trams use it?
11:29<andythenorth>I am never understanding compatibility :|
11:29<supermop>do i need to also have a block for ELRL saying it is powered on CBTE etc
11:30<andythenorth>are they in the menu and greyed out?
11:30<andythenorth>or not present?
11:30<supermop>not present at all
11:30<supermop>year is 1960 so trams exist
11:31<supermop>road type table is this:
11:31<supermop>roadtypetable { YDRD, CBRD, CBRE, PVRD, PVRE, ISRD, ISRE }
11:31<supermop>tram is similar
11:31<supermop>should i put ROAD and ELRD in there?
11:32<andythenorth>try it and see
11:32*andythenorth makes no pretence of understanding the newgrf part of the NRT spec
11:33<andythenorth>it’s just a copy of railtypes, which I also don’t understand :)
11:33<supermop>i make no pretence of understanding any part of my life
11:34<andythenorth>I have found it best to stick to a simple rule: define route type label same as vehicles, and provide both myself
11:34<andythenorth>anything else is ‘eh?'
11:34<supermop>i could add one of these to test i guess:
11:35<supermop>http://hutnyak.com/Trolley/Photos/Italy/FILOCA3-640.JPG
11:36<andythenorth>yup
11:38<supermop>adding those to the type table did nothing
11:38<supermop>next ill add blocks for them
11:41<supermop>hog calls tram ELRL right?
11:43<supermop>can i have a block for ROAD and just not provide any lines for name, strings, etc
11:43<supermop>just the lable and power list, and fall back to default on everything else?>
11:44<andythenorth>probably will work
11:58<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/aberdare_alignment.png aberdare SW seems a bit too high?
11:58<andythenorth>looks borked doesn’t it :o
11:59<@Alberth>somewhat :)
11:59<andythenorth>thanks
11:59<supermop>still nothing
12:00<@Alberth>yw, it's 1.9.1
12:00<supermop>now that ive explicitly set road vehicles to be powered on them
12:01<andythenorth>:|
12:02<andythenorth>so you have a vehicle that uses the label?
12:03<supermop>making that now
12:04<supermop>tutorial truck with trolley poles
12:06<andythenorth>no vehicles defined, no availability of roadtype
12:06<andythenorth>the compatibility stuff is not what it might appear to be
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12:11<andythenorth>these ‘foo / bar’ names make me twitch :) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#metal_fabrication_plant
12:11<andythenorth>seems ugly
12:11<andythenorth>it’s only in docs eh
12:11<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#fertiliser_plant
12:11<supermop>can i have a vehicle with no sprites thats never available?
12:12<andythenorth>not if you want the roadtype available
12:12<supermop>>:(
12:13<andythenorth>that is the default face for railtype / NRT grf authors
12:13<andythenorth>does adding the vehicle work?
12:13<andythenorth>there must be a solution to this, otherwise how do all those rivet-counting railtype grfs work?
12:14<andythenorth>those ones with axle weights and speeds and all the other crap
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12:17<supermop>im still drawing the trolleypoles on in PS
12:21<supermop>you've got another thing coming if you think i am going to put in a trolley truck with no poles
12:21<Wolf01>supermop, did you manage to automate the preset for nrt?
12:21<supermop>???
12:21<supermop>huh?
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12:25<supermop>idk what that means
12:26<Wolf01>*templating
12:26<Wolf01><supermop_> hmm i need to figure out a better way that repeating this huge set of templating each time for each pavement type <-
12:29<supermop>:( No i didnt figure anything out
12:29<supermop>if model life is 0 does it last forever?
12:32<supermop>andy can i steal some forlifts?
12:32<supermop>fork
12:41<supermop>idk how to set the roadtype of a vehicle
12:42<andythenorth>it’s a label
12:42<andythenorth>sorry, it’s a property I mean
12:42<andythenorth>:)
12:43<supermop>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pe6huaixw
12:43<supermop>like "roadtype: ELRD"?
12:44<andythenorth>tram_type or road_type
12:45<andythenorth>and otherwise as you pasted above
12:45<supermop>ok just put it anywhere in there?
12:45<andythenorth>anywhere in the properties block
12:47<supermop>do i need " around ELRD?
12:56<andythenorth>nope
12:57<andythenorth>has to be in your type table though also
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13:13<Wolf01>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dir5iH6gVnc nice
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13:21<Wolf01>Quak
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13:24<frosch123>hoi
13:38<andythenorth>such industries I must draw
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13:48<supermop>hello frosh
13:48<supermop>+c
13:48<supermop>+123
13:49<frosch123>hoin
13:52<supermop>if i have 4 road types and 4 tram types, is there a way to make them all available in game without also providing a vehicle for each one?
13:57<frosch123>yes, set the default roadtype to introduce them
14:00<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypes#Vehicle_and_Railtype_availability <- same as that
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14:15<@Alberth>:o 324t steel / month
14:15<andythenorth>is that a lot? or a little? :)
14:18<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8354/SV-steel-game.png
14:18<andythenorth>I only got silver :P
14:20<andythenorth>I am pretty pleased with rebalanced Steeltown
14:20<andythenorth>I would recommend it now, apart from borked industry graphics
14:20<andythenorth>probably one of the best SV games I’ve played, even though I didn’t win
14:21<andythenorth>“probably the best SV game I’ve lost” :P
14:21<andythenorth>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
14:22<andythenorth>the lines from primary to secondary are all really clean
14:22<andythenorth>then the secondaries all combine in the tertiaries
14:23<andythenorth>and there are just a few tradeoffs about delivering cargo to A or B for different results, too much of that is boring, and removing it entirely is also boring
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15:03<supermop>can a rv run on a 'compatible' but not 'powered' type?
15:04<andythenorth>no, there is no ‘compatible’ for NRT
15:04<andythenorth>as RVs don’t run without power (unliked train wagons) ;)
15:04<andythenorth>-d
15:04<supermop>what if my tram is going like 100mph
15:04<andythenorth>I should check the actual nmlc code before commenting, but that’s my memory :P
15:05<supermop>can it coast across an insulated segment
15:05<Wolf01>There's only "powered" on NRT
15:05<Wolf01>It reverses
15:06<Wolf01>And the pathfinder tries to find a new way, if it can't it starts throwing out messages
15:06<andythenorth>supermop: would the draft docs help? o_O https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes
15:06<andythenorth>you could road-test them
15:07<Wolf01>"powered" is "Am I able to travel there?", not powered as "Do I receive energy from some source"
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15:17<supermop>http://imgur.com/a/pdCTd
15:17<Wolf01>:)
15:18<andythenorth>winning?
15:18<supermop>also thaat coke oven has a red x drawn on it?
15:18<andythenorth>I should draw that bloody coke oven
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15:24<@Alberth>mobile coke oven :p
15:25<@Alberth>it seems I must update to new firs :)
15:28<ConductorCat>:3
15:29<supermop>depots need some work:
15:29<supermop>http://imgur.com/a/RgK0O
15:29<Wolf01>Whoa, L shaped depot XD
15:31<andythenorth>looks neat
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15:40<supermop_>http://imgur.com/a/O7NB3
15:40<supermop_>:D
15:42<frosch123>drive-in roadstops :)
15:44<supermop_>finally all those ISR tiles can have forklifts running about on them
15:44<Wolf01>:D:D:D:D:D
15:45<supermop_>andy needs to add container stackers to heqs
15:46<supermop_>think how cool those foundry transporters will look not having to drive on public roads
15:47<andythenorth>I might add some more heavy transporters
15:47<andythenorth>but not urgently :P
15:47<andythenorth>we still need a decent ship set
15:48<supermop_>how do i get the sprite aligner thing?
15:49<andythenorth>got newgrf developer tools on?
15:49<supermop_>probably no on this computer let me check
15:49<supermop_>also front facing depots are using each other's sprites
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15:50<frosch123>supermop_: https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging#Activating_newgrf_developer_tools
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15:53<Eddi|zuHause>help! my internet was gone!
15:53<frosch123>who ate it?
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, but i called a telekom service hotline, and an automatted voice told me they're already working on it, and it's possibly done at 23:00
15:55<Wolf01>:o
15:55<frosch123>at least they gave you a time machine in return
15:55<frosch123>so you can replay at least one hour
15:56<supermop_>will a RV with realistic accelleration and 0 hp accelerate downhill?
15:56<frosch123>yes, if you get it out of the depot
15:56<supermop_>(log flumes as roadtypes maybe)
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>it was gone at like 16:30
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15:58<TomPecs>hello
15:58<TomPecs>is here anyone ? who developing android version?
15:58<frosch123>pelya
15:58<TomPecs>I founded a bug
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>bugs with the android version best go to the forum thread
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16:00<TomPecs>oh
16:00<TomPecs>thank you
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16:00<Wolf01>He, Eddi, your ISP reset frosch internet :P
16:00<TomPecs>can U please give me a link to the website for the android version ? or forum
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i just had the same thought :p
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>forum.openttd.org -> development -> android version
16:04<TomPecs>thank you very much
16:04<TomPecs>have a nice day/night
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16:08<Wolf01>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1182926#p1182926 <- anyone?
16:10<frosch123>TrueBrain: ^^ :)
16:11<frosch123>all binaries are 404, independent of mirror
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16:20<TrueBrain-Bot>pure hate, I am sure
16:21<TrueBrain-Bot>they are available on the main mirror .. hmm
16:21<TrueBrain-Bot>for some reason the changed file was not detected, and the file was never sync'd to the mirrors
16:21<TrueBrain-Bot>guess I should restart the balancer ... it has an uptime of over a year
16:21<TrueBrain-Bot>Online since: 2015-09-27 10:00:13
16:22<TrueBrain-Bot>will take a bit of time for the balancer to find its way back
16:22<frosch123>thanks :)
16:23<TrueBrain-Bot>files are available now 😃
16:24<frosch123>i wonder when i will get over those unicode emoji :p
16:25<TrueBrain-Bot>I am not; strongly considering patching up my Discord <-> IRC bot to rewrite them into plain text
16:26<frosch123>i always thought discord was audio only
16:26<frosch123>so never looked into it
16:26<TrueBrain-Bot>far from it; but it is mostly used by gamers
16:26<TrueBrain-Bot>I like it more over Slack and HipChat
16:26<TrueBrain-Bot>but yeah, it does audio too 😃
16:27<frosch123>@voice TrueBrain-Bot
16:27-!-mode/#openttd [+v TrueBrain-Bot] by DorpsGek
16:27<frosch123>sorry :p
16:27<+TrueBrain-Bot>haha, lovely humor 😄
16:29<V453000>u wot m8
16:29<+TrueBrain-Bot>there are these letters on the keyboard you can press; it make full words
16:29<+TrueBrain-Bot>it's awesome, you should try it one day
16:29<+TrueBrain-Bot>*trololol*
16:30<V453000>Discord is interesting, I just don't have any use for it atm :D
16:30<V453000>IRC master race
16:30<frosch123>slugs have difficulties to travel from key to key
16:30<V453000>exactly
16:30<frosch123>so they have to skip letters
16:30<+TrueBrain-Bot>what I like about Discord, is that creating bots for it is stupid simple (easier than IRC yes), and it allows you to be informed about all kinds of stuff
16:30<+TrueBrain-Bot>like server-status etc
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16:32<V453000>:)
16:32<V453000>have no idea about those things
16:32<V453000>but slugs like
16:35<andythenorth>TrueBrain-Bot: do you use the audio in discord for anything?
16:35*andythenorth considering it instead of slack
16:35<andythenorth>want push-to-talk
16:35<+TrueBrain-Bot>gaming with friends, yes
16:35<andythenorth>generation y and millenials never pick up the fucking phone, they just type words words words
16:35<+TrueBrain-Bot>but that works under the assumption you have friends to game with 😄
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16:35<andythenorth>I want some kind of ‘push-to-talk’ communication for work
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16:36<+TrueBrain-Bot>for work I use my legs
16:36<+TrueBrain-Bot>also very useful
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16:36<andythenorth>doesn’t work so well if you have people 100 miles away
16:36<+TrueBrain-Bot>anyway, Discord has no on-premise solution
16:36<+TrueBrain-Bot>so for most work related stuff, it is useless
16:36<andythenorth>or 10354 miles also
16:37<+TrueBrain-Bot>(At least, if you care a small bit about any form of security)
16:37<V453000>slack is nice, but I fucking hate having to have it open
16:37<V453000>we use it at work
16:37<V453000>but I usually just find it distracting
16:37<V453000>so just open it once/twice a day
16:37<andythenorth>more or less distracting than irc?
16:38<andythenorth>TrueBrain-Bot: there’s a counter argument to on-premise
16:38<andythenorth>based on what you know about the people you work with, do you trust them more to run a secure 3rd party service?
16:38<andythenorth>or do you trust the people who have skin in the game because they wrote the service? o_O
16:38<+TrueBrain-Bot>I guess it depends on your line of work 😃
16:39<+TrueBrain-Bot>I work for a security company .. 😉
16:39<+TrueBrain-Bot>(IT security that is .. not house security)
16:39<andythenorth>I run a SaaS business and spent the first 5 years or so arguing with government IT teams who wanted to host our code themselves ‘for security'
16:39<V453000>probably more, the webirc doesn't start doing crazy shit when I receive a notification
16:39<V453000>I can probably turn it off somehow but eh
16:39<V453000>effert
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16:57<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think they mean a different kind of security...
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16:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: like the overprotective-parent-kind of security where they want to have an eye on their kid at all times. instead of the kid learning to get by itself, which would probably be better in the long run
17:02<andythenorth>well maybe
17:02<andythenorth>:)
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17:17<andythenorth>also
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19:09<Wolf01>'night
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21:12<supermop_home>for some reason it's taking me like 30 min to download nrt road hog from the forums
21:12<supermop_home>everything else for any other site is no problem
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---Logclosed Fri Feb 17 00:00:48 2017