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#openttd IRC Logs for 2017-02-22

---Logopened Wed Feb 22 00:00:55 2017
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04:44<Wolf01>o/
04:44<__ln__>you're early
04:44<Wolf01>Mmmmh, huge civilization bundle, I'm too old for that
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04:45<Wolf01>I come when I come :P
04:45<Wolf01>Like the wizards
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07:36<andythenorth>is cats http://affinelayer.com/pixsrv/index.html
07:47<Wolf01>Good cats are good
07:49<Wolf01>So it actually generate the resulting image?
07:50<Wolf01>Or it just matches the best image containing the input elements?
07:51<andythenorth>dunno :) download it and read the code? o_O
07:51*andythenorth just drew silly doodles with it
07:52<Wolf01>I wouldn't understand a bit of it
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07:55<Wolf01>Imagine the possibilities, you put in a boxed models png for a trainset and it changes them to slugs
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07:59<andythenorth>ha
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08:08<V453000>nocat
08:08<V453000>noslug
08:08<V453000>eradicatehumenz
08:08<V453000>gg
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08:58<milda>educate hummus?
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09:34<supermop>yo
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10:48<@Alberth>o/
10:48<crem>\o
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10:49<Wolf01>https://1drv.ms/f/s!AgUFeOGLNNfVht0kfOeu2wZZbvzQjQ ha, it's really funny to make these :D
10:49<Wolf01>o/
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10:55<Wolf01>o/
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10:56<Wolf01>Meh, I think I'll get disconnected soon, my ISP has problems again :|
11:00<@Alberth>o/
11:01<andythenorth>lo Alberth
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11:56<supermop>not sure what to do next for docklands
11:56<supermop>not sure if it really needs anything else
11:56<supermop>i guess level crossings need work
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12:52<Number>hello, is there any way to unlock all of the airports at any date?
12:55<@Alberth>yes, write a newgrf overriding the airport appearance dates
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13:04<andythenorth>use opengfx+ airports
13:04<andythenorth>Number: ^
13:04<andythenorth>it has a parameter to remove dates
13:05<andythenorth>dunno if that solves it for you
13:05<@planetmaker>^^ I was about to look that up... forgot what I did there :D
13:06<@planetmaker>good evening
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13:06-!-HerzogDeXtEr is "purple" on #openttd
13:06<andythenorth>hi planetmaker
13:07<Number>andythenorth ty :D
13:08<andythenorth>np
13:13<Number>im surprised that basicaly nothing exists on the subject when i googled it
13:15<Number>should i edit in a section about it on the wiki?
13:16<Number>on the airport page
13:21<@planetmaker>as you unsuccessfully looked for that: it obviously would help. So, yes, please
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13:31<Wolf01>Quak
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13:36<@Alberth>hola
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13:46<frosch123>so, andy is now training pix2pix?
13:46<frosch123>hoi btw
13:46<@planetmaker>o/
13:46<supermop>hi planetmaker
13:51<Number>added https://wiki.openttd.org/Airports#Changing_Airport_Introduction_Dates
13:55<@planetmaker>perfect
14:06<supermop>ogfx+rvs have a surprisingly late introduction of the first tram
14:11<ConductorCat>:3
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14:15<supermop>what is a pnml file
14:16<frosch123>something that is turned into an nml file by using the cpp macro processor
14:16<supermop>http://www.historicvietnam.com/sai-gon-tramway-network/
14:16<frosch123>it's mainly used to be able to #include stuff and share some #define ids
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14:19<supermop>so can i make a tiny nml file for each of many vehicles and combine them later, rather than have a clumsily long text file?
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14:20<frosch123>yes
14:20<frosch123>but it's hard to do on windows
14:20<frosch123>though iirc someone made it work on w10
14:21<frosch123>thought weren't that you?
14:23<supermop>i certainly didn't figure it out, as i only have been on w10 for about a month and don't really know how pnml works yet
14:24<andythenorth>I would avoid it
14:24<andythenorth>honestly
14:24<frosch123>well, someone in this channel ran bash and compiled something with nml
14:25<frosch123>andythenorth: pnml or w10?
14:25<andythenorth>pnml
14:25<andythenorth>although the C Pre-Processor is beautifully simple to use, I found it constraining
14:25<andythenorth>but then we know how I voted :P
14:25<frosch123>andythenorth: i think it's fine if you only do #include
14:25<andythenorth>it adds a big make / gcc dependency on windows, for not a lot of power
14:26<andythenorth>actually, I might be talking out of my arse, I haven’t installed it on windows :)
14:27<__ln__>https://i.redd.it/v3tyijqvndhy.gif
14:27<andythenorth>yes! :)
14:28<andythenorth>best thing this week
14:28<supermop>hmm ha noi and sai gon had different gauge tramways
14:29<supermop>bug or feature?
14:31<supermop>RH need an indochina roster?
14:31<andythenorth>does python work on windows? o_O
14:31<andythenorth>supermop: ‘not right now'
14:31<andythenorth>:)
14:32<supermop>i dont think i need to make a rv grf right now
14:33<supermop>but idk maybe i should keep trying to do something at a low speed so that i gather no moss
14:34<supermop>and as i've been playing a game with VN names, and dont have the appetite to try to draw VN houses right now
14:37<supermop>maybe sai gon trams are the non-electric tramways we need as another nrt proof of concept
14:38<andythenorth>you could draw some boats :P
14:39<andythenorth>actually you can’t because I don’t know how long they should be :)
14:42<supermop>sai gon trams will need ha noi trams, and then im doing all of indochina, then all of SEA
14:43<supermop>then im basically doing the 2cc trams but with my slightly different nitpick
14:44<supermop>so i might as well just fork 2cc trams to include HK and ROC flags
14:51<supermop>are different tramway gauges and electrical supplies frustrating rivet counting or raison d'etre for nrt?
14:55<andythenorth>the former
14:55<andythenorth>unless it gives you quite different vehicles
14:56<andythenorth>e.g fast vs slow, powerful vs. anemic, long vs. short etc
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14:58<supermop>ha noi built 1000mm electric trams rather than 500mm steam like sai gon because they built a few years later
14:58<supermop>so effectively sai gon had first mover disadvantage
14:59<supermop>but thats unworkable / unfun in game
14:59<ConductorCat>:3
14:59<supermop>if 500mm is objectively worse, i won't build it in the 1880s, i'll just wait 10 years
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15:04<andythenorth>hmm
15:04<andythenorth>Iron Horse rework?
15:04<andythenorth>it does kind of suck
15:07<frosch123>i thought you just add more roasters
15:08<frosch123>is there already iron alpaka?
15:09<andythenorth>llama :)
15:09<andythenorth>it’s kind of crap
15:09<andythenorth>it became apparent that some structure is needed beyond ’20 engines’ :)
15:09<frosch123>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_animals <- interesting page
15:09*andythenorth should save that
15:10*andythenorth _should_ draw ships
15:10<andythenorth>but can’t decide how long they should be
15:11<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8370/large_ship_house_rear.png
15:11<andythenorth>128px in – view
15:12<andythenorth>by train rules that should be 64px in \ / views
15:12<frosch123>the ship-driving-in-circle image was more useful
15:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8357/ships-length-3.png
15:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8339/8-ships-such.png
15:13<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8355/ships-length.png
15:13<frosch123>in 8-ships-such the diagonal ones are too short
15:13<andythenorth>by eye?
15:14<andythenorth>+1
15:14<andythenorth>same scaling as the trains
15:14<frosch123>yes, purely subjetive
15:14<andythenorth>I agree
15:14<V453000>:DDD
15:16<andythenorth>3/5 ratio then?
15:16<andythenorth>instead of 1/2?
15:17<frosch123>7/10
15:17<frosch123>almost the same
15:19<andythenorth>that’s pretty close to FISH
15:19<andythenorth>FISH nominally used .066
15:19<andythenorth>0.66 * :)
15:19<andythenorth>and the main reason to redraw is that the ships look wrong in game :)
15:20<andythenorth>3/5 is pretty close to 0.66 too :P
15:21<andythenorth>what does V453000 say? o_O
15:21<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8370/large_ship_house_rear.png
15:22<V453000>666
15:22<V453000>ships aren't tied to grid in any logical way and have no collisions, just draw what looks right
15:22<supermop>patch in ship crashes
15:23<V453000>by quick eyeballing I'd prefer the 80x12 base
15:23<V453000>to fit to the - | views
15:24<andythenorth>maybe FISH is fine :)
15:24<V453000>I didn't use it ultra much but it seemed okay to me
15:25<frosch123>rerelease fish1 as sam?
15:27<V453000>:D :D profit
15:28<andythenorth>he
15:29<supermop>fish is pretty
15:31*andythenorth tries to work out why the game makes trains so short in \ / views
15:32<andythenorth>eh maybe it just looks good
15:33<frosch123>andythenorth: pikka shortened --- view to how it was originally
15:33<V453000>well because 2 8/8 fit on a diagonal and on a straight one as well
15:33<V453000>simple square root in a triangle :)
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15:50<supermop>i guess trolley bus/trucks are next most important thing to show in NRT
15:50<andythenorth>I reckon
15:50<supermop>from my perspective, I think people can understand what speedlimits would be like without a proof of concept
15:51<andythenorth>speedlimits are dull also :)
15:51<supermop>but unpowered tram sort of suggests powered road
15:52<andythenorth>yes
15:52<supermop>cheap, dirt roads are maybe interesting,
15:52<andythenorth>also I won’t add trolley bus/truck to RH in brit roster
15:52<andythenorth>if ever
15:53<__ln__>http://affinelayer.com/pixsrv/ edges2cats
15:53<andythenorth>already posted :)
15:53<andythenorth>:P
15:53*andythenorth is usually late to anything like that
15:53<__ln__>aww :(
15:53<andythenorth>such cats
15:55<supermop>oh god the handbag i drew looks like an abomination
15:56<andythenorth>I can’t draw shoes
15:56<andythenorth>cats though, no problem
15:59<supermop>drawing a handbag for cat is...odd
16:01<supermop>as is drawing cat for shoe
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16:32*andythenorth such ships
16:32<andythenorth>3/5 seems the easiest to work with
16:33<supermop>maybe ill steal the antelope ng sprites i drew to make tams?
16:33<supermop>trams
16:33<supermop>tim trams
16:35<andythenorth>seems fair
16:35<andythenorth>NG <-> trams
16:35<andythenorth>massive overlap
16:37<supermop>distracts from me making trolley trucks
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16:39<supermop>trying to get over my deep apathy for default vehicles, because if i make an ogfx+ trolley truck set i know i will never use it
16:45<andythenorth>just fork Hog
16:45<andythenorth>electrify those trucks
16:46<andythenorth>saves you a shitload of agony about lengths, styles etc
16:47<andythenorth>some kind of Electric Hog :P
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16:50<supermop>hmm
16:50<supermop>ogfx+ is pretty standardized though
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16:55<andythenorth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8371/8-ships-2.png
16:55<supermop>i dont need this to be a good RV set right now, just no one else has shown that trolley trucks are possible yet
16:56<andythenorth>3/5 diagonals
16:56<supermop>andythenorth: looks decent
16:56<supermop>nice boats
16:57<andythenorth>the house length is very different for N / S facing diagonal views :P
16:57<supermop>egrvts is a better option but it's too big and not gpl
16:57*andythenorth has work to do
16:58<supermop>pasting a set of trolley poles and pantos onto existing sprites is fine by me
17:02<supermop>do people expect trolley trucks to be able to use terminus stops?
17:03<andythenorth>we don’t know yet :)
17:04<andythenorth>just make them articulated, then it’s moot
17:04<supermop>i'd hate to have to back a trolley truck into a bay
17:05<andythenorth>fair
17:06<supermop>if it has a battery or engine that lets me drive around without the wire, maybe ok,
17:06<supermop>although if trolleytrucks are articulated, maybe there isn't enough gameplay difference from trams
17:07<@planetmaker>supermop: if you want to give some trams love and / or overhaul those in OpenGFX+RV, be my guest
17:07<supermop>planetmaker: i'm happy to
17:08<andythenorth>supermop: depends on game date, but they could have relatively high HP relative to diesel trucks
17:08<andythenorth>it all comes down the wire
17:08<andythenorth>also light weight
17:08<supermop>things i thought last week:
17:10<supermop>better acceleration? lighter? cheaper (no IC engine)? more expensive (specialized equipment)? lower running costs (no messy diesel repairs, fuel independence, no need to refuel)? higher reliability? lower reliability (wires came down)?
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17:14<andythenorth>are you balancing them against any other set?
17:14<andythenorth>anyway, I’d give them same capacity as diesel trucks (20-40t)
17:14<supermop>ogfx+
17:14<andythenorth>and 25% more power and 20% lower weight, but higher cost
17:15<supermop>basically a trolley version of each ogfx+ plus
17:15<andythenorth>dunno if my idea is valid, but it’s a starting point
17:15<andythenorth>I teddy-bear code a lot, but there’s always a time to just start testing in the game :)
17:16<andythenorth>also bed time here
17:16<andythenorth>bye
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17:39<supermop>planetmaker: idk if i am going to be able to produce code compliant with the rest of ogfx+rv
17:41<supermop>not sure if it's better to try or just individually code them simply
17:44<Wolf01>Mmmmh, I broke my app... without changing it
17:46<@planetmaker>supermop, that will have to be seen. Re-formatting the code is the easier task, if there's something which works and just needs "tidying up" :)
17:46<@planetmaker>Don't worry about that too much... toy with it, adjust it... and wee that it works ingame by adjustment. And then one can still see how to make it fit
17:48<supermop>does ogfx+ support 2cc?
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18:42<Wolf01>\o/ I'm 224 now
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19:04<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 23 00:00:57 2017